Settle the @$#% down, please.

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ecoperson said:
I seriously love the analogy! I guess I am not having as much of a problem seeing the system. I see it and I see the players are not able to currently execute it.

The 8 billion dollar question is does the coach scrap the system to coax out a few more wins or does he keep running the system as he has with the the hopes that the personnel eventually grow into and asp it?

If he does the former, he doesn't prepare the players for next year and goes through this all over again. If he does the latter, they may look bad at times but hopefully improve this season and beyond.
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Nothing will prepare them individually and collectively better than some wins. That is the objective.
 


short ornery norwegian said:
this is just my opinion, but:

there are people who believe Johnson was a "diversity" hire and should not have been hired. Those people also believe there were other, better candidates who were not considered because the U was determined to hire a minority coach.

and the team's poor performance - in their eyes - "proves" they were right.

so, from their point of view, this was an avoidable situation.
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In fairness, it would help calm things down if you and Ben would let everyone in on the secret plan.
 



LesBolstad said:
This is me leaving. No more posts. Except this one. And the next one. That's all I need
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Wasn't it NYC Gopher that quit GopherHole but reserved the right to post occasionally if a big topic came up (or something to that effect)? Well that was about 5000 posts ago.

We all get frustrated from time to time with this place. 🤷‍♂️
 






An observation:

When you have Selection Sunday not attending games in person, the program is in deep, deep trouble. And, I have no doubt there are others in the same boat. And those in that boat have been hard core, die hard supporters.

Those that choose to lecture and preach patience discount the decades a lot of folks have put into the program.

Again, I am not blaming cbj. I assign the blame squarely on the Administration. Their choices over the years on all things BB program related equal the sad state of affairs that continue.
 


BarnBurner said:
An observation:

When you have Selection Sunday not attending games in person, the program is in deep, deep trouble. And, I have no doubt there are others in the same boat. And those in that boat have been hard core, die hard supporters.

Those that choose to lecture and preach patience discount the decades a lot of folks have put into the program.

Again, I am not blaming cbj. I assign the blame squarely on the Administration. Their choices over the years on all things BB program related equal the sad state of affairs that continue.
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Correct on the Administration being responsible. Decisions made out of convenience, fear, career ambitions, bizarre political correctness, ignorance or just a lack of oversight have made it slightly harder to win here. Basketball does not get a ton of attention from U leadership and when it does the decisions typically benefit some self righteous administrator's world view than protect/build the program. In a competitive environment like the Big10 it is puts us at the very bottom of the league.

Still, there is hope. It just doesn't come from incessantly posting negative stuff on websites.
 

MNJay said:
At least you admit that last year was a true year zero. Unlike Clem, who had freshmen Burton, Newburn, Coffey, & Shikejanski in his very first year.

So by you logic, Clem should have been fired after those guys went 2-16 & 4-14 as freshmen & sophomores.

As for your worry of the instate pipeline drying up...I think recruits are smart enough to see it's about who they're playing with and development...not about the past.

I highly disagree with bringing in senior transfers now. Wait until we're developed first !!!
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No, I don't think we should have fired Clem, but if it plays out how I mentioned then Ben's either toast after year three or his seat will be scolding hot in year four it's just the reality of this sport in 2023. This isn't the 80's, Reagan not President, the Soviet Union despite Putin's efforts doesn't exist and gas is no longer 30 cents a gallon, the world changes. I've said that we have the talent to turn this around and I believe we will, I also said I wanted a multi year transfer guard not a Senior. The reality of the situation is high school kids will see plenty of options in the mid west are aren't in last place in their league if we don't turn this around by next year, the new shine only last so long before results start to matter. How it is for everyone, you cannot suck with no mark of improvement for three years in this sport. You get one, maybe two when your new, but not three
 



Spaulding!No! said:
- pine bluff v the gophs. Don’t act like you ain’t gonna watch. This is gold!
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If our freshmen & recruits develop and are very good in 2 years...we all need to remember to rub guys like Spaulding's face in it.
 


Wet_Blanket_Guy said:
America loves a train wreck
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True. Even the most outspoken Gopher fans on here will turn on them in a second if the media tells them to. We believe what the media tells us.

America does love a train wreck. The media & our administration always sabotage our best basketball teams.
 

Dupreefor3 said:
No, I don't think we should have fired Clem, but if it plays out how I mentioned then Ben's either toast after year three or his seat will be scolding hot in year four it's just the reality of this sport in 2023. This isn't the 80's, Reagan not President, the Soviet Union despite Putin's efforts doesn't exist and gas is no longer 30 cents a gallon, the world changes. I've said that we have the talent to turn this around and I believe we will, I also said I wanted a multi year transfer guard not a Senior. The reality of the situation is high school kids will see plenty of options in the mid west are aren't in last place in their league if we don't turn this around by next year, the new shine only last so long before results start to matter. How it is for everyone, you cannot suck with no mark of improvement for three years in this sport. You get one, maybe two when your new, but not three
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Hey scalding-hot in year 4 is fine. That's when Clem started winning...when his guys were juniors. CBJ will have juniors...with Evans & Co. as sophomores.

And that's the year to bring in upperclassmen transfers. Not now!! I can't believe how there's like 10 posts in a row about how we need transfers now. Just ridiculous.

And no, times haven't changed so much that the Clem model won't work anymore. It's so basic. It's so absurd for everyone to say that building your first recruits up to juniors & sophomores is outdated.
 

MNJay said:
If our freshmen & recruits develop and are very good in 2 years...we all need to remember to rub guys like Spaulding's face in it.
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I will happily admit I complained for nothing and was totally wrong if they get good under this staff. You act like we don't want them to succeed. We complain because we love this program and are not satisfied with the results on the court. We just fired a coach for being bad, typically you hire a new coach to get good. Spaulding would love nothing more for the U to be competitive and for the Barn to be packed, just like everyone else posting here (with the exception of those closeted BADger fans you always bring up ;)).
 

MNJay said:
Hey scalding-hot in year 4 is fine. That's when Clem started winning...when his guys were juniors. CBJ will have juniors...with Evans & Co. as sophomores.

And that's the year to bring in upperclassmen transfers. Not now!! I can't believe how there's like 10 posts in a row about how we need transfers now. Just ridiculous.

And no, times haven't changed so much that the Clem model won't work anymore. It's so basic. It's so absurd for everyone to say that building your first recruits up to juniors & sophomores is outdated.
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Clem started actually winning in year three, which is when I said Ben needs to start winning so I think we agree there. I do think though Clem would have been fired even back then if the 88-89 season had gone similarly to the previous two. Like I said in the beginning you can suck your first couple years while you build program, but if you still suck in year three than that good will is gone. I do agree, it won't make sense to bring in a one year guy next year, but as I've said in other posts I don't think we can play a winning style of basketball with Battle and Garcia both logging heavy minutes, it just means one is going to be a defensive liability more often than not.
 

GopherBlood666 said:
I will happily admit I complained for nothing and was totally wrong if they get good under this staff. You act like we don't want them to succeed. We complain because we love this program and are not satisfied with the results on the court. We just fired a coach for being bad, typically you hire a new coach to get good. Spaulding would love nothing more for the U to be competitive and for the Barn to be packed, just like everyone else posting here (with the exception of those closeted BADger fans you always bring up ;)).
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No one is more against our administration than I am. They sabotage all our best teams. They should have hired Musselman. Or kept Pitino with Carr, Mashburn, Robbins, Kalsheur, and a few other good players we had. And adding Battle & Garcia to that core.

But...CBJ most recent recruiting has me on board with a ground-up rebuild. So there's no need to complain anymore. Not yet. Complaining now is so misguided.
 

Dupreefor3 said:
Clem started actually winning in year three, which is when I said Ben needs to start winning so I think we agree there. I do think though Clem would have been fired even back then if the 88-89 season had gone similarly to the previous two. Like I said in the beginning you can suck your first couple years while you build program, but if you still suck in year three than that good will is gone. I do agree, it won't make sense to bring in a one year guy next year, but as I've said in other posts I don't think we can play a winning style of basketball with Battle and Garcia both logging heavy minutes, it just means one is going to be a defensive liability more often than not.
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But you admitted that CBJ had a true Year-Zero. While Clem had Burton, Newburn, Coffey, & Shikejanski in his first year.
 

MNJay said:
No one is more against our administration than I am. They sabotage all our best teams. They should have hired Musselman. Or kept Pitino with Carr, Mashburn, Robbins, Kalsheur, and a few other good players we had. And adding Battle & Garcia to that core.

But...CBJ most recent recruiting has me on board with a ground-up rebuild. So there's no need to complain anymore. Not yet. Complaining now is so misguided.
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Had they kept Pitino, there is Zero chance all of his players were going to return. With the Transfer Portal, not having to sit out a year and players getting an extra year of eligibility due to COVID, the roster was going to turn over, big time IMO.
 

MNJay said:
No one is more against our administration than I am. They sabotage all our best teams. They should have hired Musselman. Or kept Pitino with Carr, Mashburn, Robbins, Kalsheur, and a few other good players we had. And adding Battle & Garcia to that core.

But...CBJ most recent recruiting has me on board with a ground-up rebuild. So there's no need to complain anymore. Not yet. Complaining now is so misguided.
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Blind optimism is also often misguided, just saying. You really hurt your credibility by suggesting Pitino should have stayed. That is the one thing I have ever witnessed this board be close to 100% consensus on.
 

MNJay said:
Hey scalding-hot in year 4 is fine. That's when Clem started winning...when his guys were juniors. CBJ will have juniors...with Evans & Co. as sophomores.

And that's the year to bring in upperclassmen transfers. Not now!! I can't believe how there's like 10 posts in a row about how we need transfers now. Just ridiculous.

And no, times haven't changed so much that the Clem model won't work anymore. It's so basic. It's so absurd for everyone to say that building your first recruits up to juniors & sophomores is outdated.
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You forget that if you wanted to transfer back in the day of Clem you had to sit out a year...not a thing any more with the 1 free transfer... We can't count on just assuming these freshman will stay until they are juniors and next year's freshmen (will A) stay committed, B) not transfer after another terrible season next year)...
 

MNJay said:
No one is more against our administration than I am. They sabotage all our best teams. They should have hired Musselman. Or kept Pitino with Carr, Mashburn, Robbins, Kalsheur, and a few other good players we had. And adding Battle & Garcia to that core.

But...CBJ most recent recruiting has me on board with a ground-up rebuild. So there's no need to complain anymore. Not yet. Complaining now is so misguided.
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We missed the Muss bus in 2013, there's no chance he would have came here in 2021. It probably would have taken 6 mill to get him to answer to phone and we all know that wasn't going happen.
 

MNJay said:
But you admitted that CBJ had a true Year-Zero. While Clem had Burton, Newburn, Coffey, & Shikejanski in his first year.
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lt still happened. End of the day Ben has the opportunity to get two injured guys back, add three four star recruits (counting Betts) and potentially can bring back his entire rotation from this year minus Samuels, he doesn't get to go 3-17, 5-15, 6-14 or any other shit record in the conference next year, it's really not that complicated
 

I hope Christie can play point.
 

Wet_Blanket_Guy said:
You forget that if you wanted to transfer back in the day of Clem you had to sit out a year...not a thing any more with the 1 free transfer... We can't count on just assuming these freshman will stay until they are juniors and next year's freshmen (will A) stay committed, B) not transfer after another terrible season next year)...
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Also going pro early was not en vogue during Haskins tenure. Willie Burton might have left early in today's environment, but back in 1989 that was hardly a thought for a player of his level.

Sure there were a few that went "Hardship" before their senior year, but most stayed at least 3. Even Isiah Thomas and Magic Johnson played for 2 seasons in the Big 10.
 


GopherBlood666 said:
Blind optimism is also often misguided, just saying. You really hurt your credibility by suggesting Pitino should have stayed. That is the one thing I have ever witnessed this board be close to 100% consensus on.
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We were always 1 player away with Pitino. Due to early NBA entries, transfers-in not approved, suspensions...or maybe his own fault in just not quite getting us there.

That being said...yes, it was time for him to go. Should have been a year earlier to get Musselman.

But yes...I'd have seriously thought about giving him 1 more year...simply because it looked like we finally might have enough good players all on the same team that year.
 

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