Settle the @$#% down, please.

[Ope3]

He’s available. Would you want him?

Are his in-laws (the Harbaughs) part of the package?

While it didn't work out in Georgia, in a couple of years if the price was right I wouldn't be against such a hire. That's as far as I would go. Several have bemoaned Ben Johnson's lack of experience. Crean has that with some solid accomplishments.

Of course when and if the Gopher HC position is available, I would want to review other potential options based on whatever the landscape is at the time.

 

[bga1]

I highly disagree with counting on Fox, Ihnen, and judging CBJ on next-year's won-loss record.

Clem won when his recruits were juniors. Ben has a 5-star C and other good recruits on the way. Let's develop them and see what they can do as sophomores (and current guys as juniors.

Fox was Ben's recruit. This is the age of transfers- that's a big part of recruiting. He counts. I certainly gave him credit when he got him and fans were excited about it.

 

[MNJay]

So in your opinion every single coach (barring some huge scandal) should get through year 4 no matter the results is that correct? So say 4-14. 1-17, 2-16 in conf the first 3 years and you would still feel that they are owed a 4th year?

Clem was 2-16 & 4-14 with his guys as freshmen & sophomores.

This is CBJ's first year with a team of freshmen. So yes, a terrible record this year & next is okay...AS LONG AS we see the freshmen improve by the end of the year. And AS LONG AS our highly-rated recruits for next year show progress.

If not...or if we're still bad when CBJ's guys are juniors & sophomores...then fire him.

 

[MNJay]

This is a different age of basketball. These kids play non-stop basketball, travel the country with AAU teams and are far more ready than the kids of Clem's days. If they aren't ready to go by the time they are sophomores, chances are they never will be. The arena is already half empty. We need success by next year- badly. The fan base is tired of losing and the Barn (an arena I love) looks like a total dump when it isn't mostly full, the parking is a mess and its a cold walk. Right now, we have a group of 6 tickets and it is hard to give the tickets away. This is as bad as it has been.

Clem comparison is one comparison. 2022 has the portal, and things are dramatically changed. No need to watch and wait for 4 years to see winning. No need.

I disagree that things are so different now. Freshmen still take time to develop. And the time to bring in a transfer is NOT NOW while we're developing...it's in 2 years when we're ready to roll.

 

[formerlybis]

Are his in-laws (the Harbaughs) part of the package?

While it didn't work out in Georgia, in a couple of years if the price was right I wouldn't be against such a hire. That's as far as I would go. Several have bemoaned Ben Johnson's lack of experience. Crean has that with some solid accomplishments.

Tells me all I need to know.

 

[MNJay]

If we wanted to win immediately, we'd have hired Musselman.

Or kept Pitino. Carr, Mashburn, & Kalsheur is a good backcourt. Robbins at center. With Battle & Garcia at forward...that's a potentially great team.

I always questioned Coyle's timing.

 

[Ope3]

Tells me all I need to know.

What exactly is that? There are probably 50 candidates I wouldn't be against being hired as Gopher Head Basketball coach. Probably more.

As for coaches I would be emphatically in favor of, without knowing who is available, interested and affordable, I struggle to come up with even 1 name. I will ponder that when the position is open, otherwise it's a fool's errand.

 

[Outsider]

I tried to give them away to family & friends, but no interest. I was not surprised.

Too bad I live in Ohio, I would have taken them in a hot second. Team is not playing well, but I wouldn’t pass up an opportunity to see them in person if I could.

 

[leib0039]

Clem was 2-16 & 4-14 with his guys as freshmen & sophomores.

This is CBJ's first year with a team of freshmen. So yes, a terrible record this year & next is okay...AS LONG AS we see the freshmen improve by the end of the year. And AS LONG AS our highly-rated recruits for next year show progress.

If not...or if we're still bad when CBJ's guys are juniors & sophomores...then fire him.

I think you can give up on the Clem schtick, we get it, you just think because it worked for him this will work too. That is irrelevant.

I guess my issue with "if they improve", what are we talking about? If Henley shoots x% better? If Payne gets X more rebounds? Or is this all just in your opinion? Just my opinion but I have not see any improvement from any player on our team since Johnson got here, so by your logic I should be ok with him being fired? That is my issue with nearly everyone who says "relax" "give him 2 more years" "who cares if we win its about development" essentially everyone in that group has no actual goal, just "the kids improve" so regardless of the outcome they won't take an L. I only care about W/L, thats it, thats all. I dont care if we have 13 freshman, 13 transfers, score 25 a game, score 112 a game. I want to WIN. To me if you go say 8-46 in conf in 3 years, i could care less who has "developed" we are losing and thus the coach no longer gets to keep his job. So from the give Ben time group, any actual concrete expectations or just eye ball it and call it good if we lose every game?

 

[GopherBlood777]

I think you can give up on the Clem schtick, we get it, you just think because it worked for him this will work too. That is irrelevant.

I guess my issue with "if they improve", what are we talking about? If Henley shoots x% better? If Payne gets X more rebounds? Or is this all just in your opinion? Just my opinion but I have not see any improvement from any player on our team since Johnson got here, so by your logic I should be ok with him being fired? That is my issue with nearly everyone who says "relax" "give him 2 more years" "who cares if we win its about development" essentially everyone in that group has no actual goal, just "the kids improve" so regardless of the outcome they won't take an L. I only care about W/L, thats it, thats all. I dont care if we have 13 freshman, 13 transfers, score 25 a game, score 112 a game. I want to WIN. To me if you go say 8-46 in conf in 3 years, i could care less who has "developed" we are losing and thus the coach no longer gets to keep his job. So from the give Ben time group, any actual concrete expectations or just eye ball it and call it good if we lose every game?

If they start losing by 3 on average versus 18, that's progress. Heck, if they start winning conference games by the end of the year, that's progress. Will we see it? Well that remains to be seen.

 

[formerlybis]

What exactly is that? There are probably 50 candidates I wouldn't be against being hired as Gopher Head Basketball coach. Probably more.

As for coaches I would be emphatically in favor of, without knowing who is available, interested and affordable, I struggle to come up with even 1 name. I will ponder that when the position is open, otherwise it's a fool's errand.

To me, Tom Crean is the epitome of the demonstrably terrible coach - not recruiter, coach. He lucked into having an NBA hall-of-famer at Marq that carried them into a dream run to the F4 20-some years ago and he parlayed that to ridiculously plum jobs that he managed to screw up royally despite having multiple NBA players on his rosters.

He's the guy you hire if you want to impress guys like you - all sizzle, no steak.

 

[Johnnyboy18]

I think you can give up on the Clem schtick, we get it, you just think because it worked for him this will work too. That is irrelevant.

I guess my issue with "if they improve", what are we talking about? If Henley shoots x% better? If Payne gets X more rebounds? Or is this all just in your opinion? Just my opinion but I have not see any improvement from any player on our team since Johnson got here, so by your logic I should be ok with him being fired? That is my issue with nearly everyone who says "relax" "give him 2 more years" "who cares if we win its about development" essentially everyone in that group has no actual goal, just "the kids improve" so regardless of the outcome they won't take an L. I only care about W/L, thats it, thats all. I dont care if we have 13 freshman, 13 transfers, score 25 a game, score 112 a game. I want to WIN. To me if you go say 8-46 in conf in 3 years, i could care less who has "developed" we are losing and thus the coach no longer gets to keep his job. So from the give Ben time group, any actual concrete expectations or just eye ball it and call it good if we lose every game?

Who are you talking about with this quote? Freshman this year? Or the 2 players that came back both of which have played about 5 games?

 

[bc2211]

I think you can give up on the Clem schtick, we get it, you just think because it worked for him this will work too. That is irrelevant.

I guess my issue with "if they improve", what are we talking about? If Henley shoots x% better? If Payne gets X more rebounds? Or is this all just in your opinion? Just my opinion but I have not see any improvement from any player on our team since Johnson got here, so by your logic I should be ok with him being fired? That is my issue with nearly everyone who says "relax" "give him 2 more years" "who cares if we win its about development" essentially everyone in that group has no actual goal, just "the kids improve" so regardless of the outcome they won't take an L. I only care about W/L, thats it, thats all. I dont care if we have 13 freshman, 13 transfers, score 25 a game, score 112 a game. I want to WIN. To me if you go say 8-46 in conf in 3 years, i could care less who has "developed" we are losing and thus the coach no longer gets to keep his job. So from the give Ben time group, any actual concrete expectations or just eye ball it and call it good if we lose every game?

Yes for the love of god. For every Clem, there are countless coaches who also sucked in years 1-2 and did not turn it around. I’m not even arguing to fire BJ and am excited about what could be based on potential of individual freshman and incoming recruits, but good lord I don’t want to read about Clem Haskins as a reason we shouldn’t consider the poor performances to date.

 

[MNJay]

I think you can give up on the Clem schtick, we get it, you just think because it worked for him this will work too. That is irrelevant.

I guess my issue with "if they improve", what are we talking about? If Henley shoots x% better? If Payne gets X more rebounds? Or is this all just in your opinion? Just my opinion but I have not see any improvement from any player on our team since Johnson got here, so by your logic I should be ok with him being fired? That is my issue with nearly everyone who says "relax" "give him 2 more years" "who cares if we win its about development" essentially everyone in that group has no actual goal, just "the kids improve" so regardless of the outcome they won't take an L. I only care about W/L, thats it, thats all. I dont care if we have 13 freshman, 13 transfers, score 25 a game, score 112 a game. I want to WIN. To me if you go say 8-46 in conf in 3 years, i could care less who has "developed" we are losing and thus the coach no longer gets to keep his job. So from the give Ben time group, any actual concrete expectations or just eye ball it and call it good if we lose every game?

If you're not willing to go by the Clem model...then you might as well start calling for CBJ's firing.

As I've stated...the progress I'm looking for at the moment is...that 2 of our 4 freshmen put up some decent numbers each game. Like 8-10 points. By the end of the year, I'd like this more consistently.

 

[Ope3]

To me, Tom Crean is the epitome of the demonstrably terrible coach - not recruiter, coach. He lucked into having an NBA hall-of-famer at Marq that carried them into a dream run to the F4 20-some years ago and he parlayed that to ridiculously plum jobs that he managed to screw up royally despite having multiple NBA players on his rosters.

He's the guy you hire if you want to impress guys like you - all sizzle, no steak.

Nowhere did I say I would be "impressed" by a future hire of Crean. My exact words were specifically chosen "I wouldn't be against it". Far from a ringing endorsement.

If he had been hired in 2007 to replace Monson, based on Marquette and his run as an Asst Coach with Michigan St under Izzo, I would have been impressed at that point of time.

 

[MNJay]

Yes for the love of god. For every Clem, there are countless coaches who also sucked in years 1-2 and did not turn it around. I’m not even arguing to fire BJ and am excited about what could be based on potential of individual freshman and incoming recruits, but good lord I don’t want to read about Clem Haskins as a reason we shouldn’t consider the poor performances to date.

NO, the Clem model is NOT simply sucking. We will be able to see progress...on the court from our freshmen and in recruiting.

If we don't see this...then we can say CBJ is failing.

 

[Dupreefor3]

I actually think it is very possible. I think that by next year Payne will be as good or better than Oturu was in year 2. We have Battle and Garcia. Fox and Ihnen coming back. Ola Joseph. The young guards will get better. He needs a high end transfer PG and perhaps one more guard. He has to be able to go get those pieces and then put together an offense and defense that works with that group. There is no reason that, with the addition of one key guy and good coaching, we can't be in the NCAAs next year. There should be no excuses next year and anyone that just says- "stop complaining until 2025" - is really part of the problem.

I doubt both Battle and Garcia will be here, especially if Fox, and Ihnen are here and healthy and Evans coming in. They just don't fit well together, too many guys for two spots, plus someone will need to go (shouldn't be a problem in this era) if we are to bring in a transfer guard along with Christie to have more competitive options in the back court

 

[formerlybis]

Nowhere did I say I would be "impressed" by a future hire of Crean. My exact words were specifically chosen "I wouldn't be against it". Far from a ringing endorsement.

If he had been hired in 2007 to replace Monson, based on Marquette and his run as an Asst Coach with Michigan St under Izzo, I would have been impressed at that point of time.

He now has a track record, though. I would never consider him based on that. If you are even open to him, then you and I are irreparably in disagreement about qualifications (i.e. tells me all I need to know).

 

[Dupreefor3]

Clem was 2-16 & 4-14 with his guys as freshmen & sophomores.

This is CBJ's first year with a team of freshmen. So yes, a terrible record this year & next is okay...AS LONG AS we see the freshmen improve by the end of the year. And AS LONG AS our highly-rated recruits for next year show progress.

If not...or if we're still bad when CBJ's guys are juniors & sophomores...then fire him.

Terrible record not going to be okay next year, it's fine this year, but this group needs to be ready to compete next season. If you end say 9-51 in conference play in your first three years, the program becomes stale, and you lose momentum with your main pipeline in state. Last year was a true year zero, we threw out college hoops version of an expansion team, we had six guys who could play at this level and we ran out of gas, but it was fun from Nov-Dec. This year like the first draft class, the true beginning if you will. What's frustrating is the big ten isn't nearly as down as we thought it would be this year and the veteran transfers aren't carrying the team like we need them too and here we are. Next year though, everyone but Samuels has eligibility to comeback, two (three if you count Betts) new pretty good recruits can be inserted into the line up. Need to be able to maneuver guy or two out that doesn't fit to get a good multi year combo guard in, if wedo that combine with everyone else gaining a year of experience and development, there's no excuse for the type of performances we are seeing this year next season. Ben really should be inline to make the type of improvements that Pitino made in the 2016 off season, I think being around .500 in conference next year regardless of how this year ends is a realistic expectation, based on the current construction of the roster and the recruits coming in next year, combined with the ability to bring in a transfer. Pitino brought in Springgs, and Lynch became eligible, who will be Ben's version of Akeem time will tell, but another bad year next year and he's toast

 

[golfing18now]

If you're not willing to go by the Clem model...then you might as well start calling for CBJ's firing.

As I've stated...the progress I'm looking for at the moment is...that 2 of our 4 freshmen put up some decent numbers each game. Like 8-10 points. By the end of the year, I'd like this more consistently.

I don't think the Clem model really makes sense given how the landscape of college basketball has changed so dramatically. We just have too many examples of coaches that have shown pretty dramatic progress in a much shorter time horizon than you are advocating. The portal changes everything.

Maybe a better comparison would be Steve Pikiell at Rutgers. He has had a slow grind but would have made the last three NCAA tournaments if not for COVID. His records didn't look all that impressive out of the gate either at a traditional doormat conference team.

Year One 3-15
Year Two 3-15
Year Three 7-13
Year Four 11-9 NCAA (COVID)
Year Five 10-10 NCAA
Year Six 12-8 NCAA

The problem with this comparison, however, is Steve Pikiell had a proven track record prior to Rutgers, having turned around a non-power five conference team to sustained success. More importantly, he has brought an aggressive, tough-minded defensive style to his teams (always ranking high on the efficiency rankings). We just haven't seen anything like that yet from Johnson's teams on either side of the equation.

 

[Go Gophs]

Also, FYI, the Mississippi State coach is in his first year with only 3 players from last year's team that was under .500 in conference under Ben Howland (and lost to MN at home in Starkville). They seem to be doing pretty well....

Correct. That team isn't talented at all either. They had no offense or skills that were discernably better than what we are any other low level team has.

What they did do was play extremely hard and play extremely good defense. This is what is missing from this years team. This is how Wisconsin wins year after year. They have low end talent also. They win because they play fantastic team defense and don't turn the ball over all the time.

This is the kind of coach I wanted here. One who could win with less because they DEMAND great defense, rebounding and taking care of the B-ball. Anyone that has been here long enough knows that Minnesota will rarely out-talent the middle or top teams in this conference, they just won't.

 

[GopherBlood777]

I doubt both Battle and Garcia will be here, especially if Fox, and Ihnen are here and healthy and Evans coming in. They just don't fit well together, too many guys for two spots, plus someone will need to go (shouldn't be a problem in this era) if we are to bring in a transfer guard along with Christie to have more competitive options in the back court

So they can go sit somewhere for a year and not play? They have already used their free transfer, so are you suggesting they would just leave college early? If anything it would be Ihnen and Fox getting pushed out the door, not the guys who have actually been able to step on the court. Ihnen does have a free transfer, so he would be the most likely IMO.

 

[Go Gophs]

Most of you would have ran Clem Haskins out of town before his Sweet-16 and Final-8. Making all the exact same arguments & complaints.

I don't know if Coach Johnson will succeed or not. But he's giving our 4 freshmen a lot of playing-time, and he has 3 good recruits on the way. The plan seems to be on-track. If our freshmen don't have some good games at the end of the year...then I'll start worrying.

If you want to hang your hat on that, then that means you would expect this team to run to the sweet sixteen next year, then to the elite 8 after that.

And basically NEVER lose in the barn again and have it rockin and rolling every single game. Don't compare Ben to Clem. Clem was a fantastic coach and won at a time here when Minnesota didn't produce hardly any D1 recruits. And IF they did, Clem made damn sure they wore Maroon and gold.

 

[Ope3]

He now has a track record, though. I would never consider him based on that. If you are even open to him, then you and I are irreparably in disagreement about qualifications (i.e. tells me all I need to know).

Thanks for the clarification.

Yes, the track record particularly at Georgia would give me pause and would need to be justified by the ones making the hiring decision.

Saying that, failure at one place wouldn't completely eliminate him as a candidate for me. Case in point (different sport), Bret Bielema. Success at Wisconsin, failure in the SEC at Arkansas. Back in the Big 10, Illinois surely has no regrets at this point.

 

[Dupreefor3]

So they can go sit somewhere for a year and not play? They have already used their free transfer, so are you suggesting they would just leave college early? If anything it would be Ihnen and Fox getting pushed out the door, not the guys who have actually been able to step on the court. Ihnen does have a free transfer, so he would be the most likely IMO.

Battle will have his degree, so he can grad transfer I'm thinking if Garcia leaves it'll be to get a pro contract somewhere. Also we're in an era where kids are on their 4th and 5th school, they'll figure out away to get eligible as the NCAA has lost their backbone. Ultimately I just don't think there's away we can play winning basketball with both Battle and Garcia in roles that they're going to be happy with. Battle can't guard on the perimeter, Garcia feet are too slow to guard anything that isn't a five and he's too soft to guard fives. A line up with both of them in it is a defensive liability. Of course other guys could leave and they could both be here and we can be a dangerous offensive team if both are playing well, but it just doesn't work defensively

 

[bga1]

Correct. That team isn't talented at all either. They had no offense or skills that were discernably better than what we are any other low level team has.

What they did do was play extremely hard and play extremely good defense. This is what is missing from this years team. This is how Wisconsin wins year after year. They have low end talent also. They win because they play fantastic team defense and don't turn the ball over all the time.

This is the kind of coach I wanted here. One who could win with less because they DEMAND great defense, rebounding and taking care of the B-ball. Anyone that has been here long enough knows that Minnesota will rarely out-talent the middle or top teams in this conference, they just won't.

Mississippi State has speed. That's where they killed us on both ends. Too fast for Battle to find any openings, too quick for us to guard. They work very hard as well - speed and hard work are a tough combo to beat.

 

[ecoperson]

I see all of this talk about things being different with quick turnarounds due to the portal, etc. etc. etc. I get it... we all want a winner and we want it now. The fact of the matter is that there are 350+ D-1 basketball teams out there including 65 Power 5 schools. Every single program is trying their hardest to win games but there is only one winner for each game over the course of a season.

Of the 65 Power 5 schools, this means that only 33 are likely to have winning records in conference in any given year. There are at least 15 teams across the Power 5 conferences who are always going to be at the top due to their historical success. That leaves the other 50 teams to jockey around trying to be one of the only 18 remaining teams to gain a winning conference record. Yes... you read that right. Only about 36% of your average Power 5 teams can have a winning record in their conference.

Many here seem to think that it should be expected that the Gophers should be a year-in/year-out winner. The fact is that we are likely never going to break into the top 15 Power 5 programs. We will almost certainly always be scrapping and fighting each year to win ALONG WITH 49 OTHER PROGRAMS who are trying just as hard.

We can all hope that someday we can maybe climb into the top half of the "Other 50" programs and have more good years followed by some down years. We've taken a risk with an unproven coach on a whole-scale tear down remodel of the bones of this program to hopefully build the program back up versus doing a bunch of cosmetic patching by recycling coach after coach.

After a few years, we'll see whether we are building something worthwhile. If so, we will all celebrate. If not, we will start over and try again... ALONG WITH ALL OF THE OTHER 49 PROGRAMS that keep trying right alongside us.

We are stuck with this coaching staff this year. We are stuck with these players this year. We are NOT going to be in the tournament this year. NOTHING is happening this year!

Many of you want to eat a chocolate cake today but the team is still mixing the batter. They will likely have to fish some eggshells out of the batter but hopefully we can get this thing in the oven soon. The journey is often wraught with challenges but it makes success all the sweeter. Enjoy the journey or you will risk missing out on the bulk of your life.

 

[bga1]

I see all of this talk about things being different with quick turnarounds due to the portal, etc. etc. etc. I get it... we all want a winner and we want it now. The fact of the matter is that there are 350+ D-1 basketball teams out there including 65 Power 5 schools. Every single program is trying their hardest to win games but there is only one winner for each game over the course of a season.

Of the 65 Power 5 schools, this means that only 33 are likely to have winning records in conference in any given year. There are at least 15 teams across the Power 5 conferences who are always going to be at the top due to their historical success. That leaves the other 50 teams to jockey around trying to be one of the only 18 remaining teams to gain a winning conference record. Yes... you read that right. Only about 36% of your average Power 5 teams can have a winning record in their conference.

Many here seem to think that it should be expected that the Gophers should be a year-in/year-out winner. The fact is that we are likely never going to break into the top 15 Power 5 programs. We will almost certainly always be scrapping and fighting each year to win ALONG WITH 49 OTHER PROGRAMS who are trying just as hard.

We can all hope that someday we can maybe climb into the top half of the "Other 50" programs and have more good years followed by some down years. We've taken a risk with an unproven coach on a whole-scale tear down remodel of the bones of this program to hopefully build the program back up versus doing a bunch of cosmetic patching by recycling coach after coach.

After a few years, we'll see whether we are building something worthwhile. If so, we will all celebrate. If not, we will start over and try again... ALONG WITH ALL OF THE OTHER 49 PROGRAMS that keep trying right alongside us.

We are stuck with this coaching staff this year. We are stuck with these players this year. We are NOT going to be in the tournament this year. NOTHING is happening this year!

Many of you want to eat a chocolate cake today but the team is still mixing the batter. They will likely have to fish some eggshells out of the batter but hopefully we can get this thing in the oven soon. The journey is often wraught with challenges but it makes success all the sweeter. Enjoy the journey or you will risk missing out on the bulk of your life.

This is good to know, Mark and Joan.

The rest of us will go lay by our dishes for the next 5 years and you can let us know when we should expect more.

 

[Spaulding!No!]

This is good to know, Mark and Joan.

The rest of us will go lay by our dishes for the next 5 years and you can let us know when we should expect more.

Grimm is struggling to ask questions about game scheme.

 

[formerlybis]

I don't think the Clem model really makes sense given how the landscape of college basketball has changed so dramatically. We just have too many examples of coaches that have shown pretty dramatic progress in a much shorter time horizon than you are advocating. The portal changes everything.

Maybe a better comparison would be Steve Pikiell at Rutgers. He has had a slow grind but would have made the last three NCAA tournaments if not for COVID. His records didn't look all that impressive out of the gate either at a traditional doormat conference team.

Year One 3-15
Year Two 3-15
Year Three 7-13
Year Four 11-9 NCAA (COVID)
Year Five 10-10 NCAA
Year Six 12-8 NCAA

The problem with this comparison, however, is Steve Pikiell had a proven track record prior to Rutgers, having turned around a non-power five conference team to sustained success. More importantly, he has brought an aggressive, tough-minded defensive style to his teams (always ranking high on the efficiency rankings). We just haven't seen anything like that yet from Johnson's teams on either side of the equation.

Violent agreement. I care less about wins and losses right now, as long as some underlying metrics are improving a la Rutgers and defense. That’s what building a foundation looks like.