Scoggins: Word is Mark Coyle wants to build Gophers men’s basketball. What does it mean for Ben Johnson?

[leib0039]

Devils advocate

We were all juiced at the end of last year. Things were looking up......I know it's hard for some to remember. The lack NIL$$$ changed that. Lost 3 good starters and 2 solid bench players.

Not sure all the blame is on the coach. Some...absolutely. how much...not sure u can weigh it.

Just be sure to look at it from all directions.

I am 50/50. Do I want a coaching change....if it's the right hire but certainly not if we reach yet again.

I'm sure I'll get roasted for this post but so be it

I'll play devils advocate to your devils advocate.

We weren't even on the bubble with a team that had:

A starting pg on a top 10 team this year
A sg who put up 16 ppg at his last spot and was thought to be our 2nd best player this year
A SF who was drafted
A PF who was one of the better players in our program the last 15-20 years
A starting C on a top 15 team this year

Yes CBJ gets credit for put together a solid team on paper, but his complete lack of coaching acumen stuck out like a sore thumb on that and every team. I understand that's the glass half empty view but I think most D1 coaches get that team to the tournament. Instead CBJ seems to get a pass from some as "well that team didn't totally suck so that's a positive ". I just can't see it that way.

 

[bga1]

I'll play devils advocate to your devils advocate.

We weren't even on the bubble with a team that had:

A starting pg on a top 10 team this year
A sg who put up 16 ppg at his last spot and was thought to be our 2nd best player this year
A SF who was drafted
A PF who was one of the better players in our program the last 15-20 years
A starting C on a top 15 team this year

Yes CBJ gets credit for put together a solid team on paper, but his complete lack of coaching acumen stuck out like a sore thumb on that and every team. I understand that's the glass half empty view but I think most D1 coaches get that team to the tournament. Instead CBJ seems to get a pass from some as "well that team didn't totally suck so that's a positive ". I just can't see it that way.

True but the team going into last year was rated a bottom tier team in the Big Ten- IIRC we were picked last or close to it weren't we? So he did do something. I want to get a new start but he has done some things well. He just never puts it all together. Bottom line- he doesn't win enough.

 

[Beerculees]

True but the team going into last year was rated a bottom tier team in the Big Ten- IIRC we were picked last or close to it weren't we? So he did do something. I want to get a new start but he has done some things well. He just never puts it all together. Bottom line- he doesn't win enough.

Picked last due to his previous 2 years. With the amount of transfers and changeover on teams nowadays, media picks based on coaches previous body of work. If Ben is back next year, regardless of our transfers we will be picked bottom 3 in the Big 10.

IMO that is a big reason half the preseason top 10 is no longer ranked.
1) Kansas- UR
2) Alabama- 7th
3) Uconn- UR
4) Houston- 3rd
5) Iowa State- 10th
6) Gonzaga- UR
7) Duke- 2nd
8) Baylor- UR
9) UNC- UR
10) Arizona- 24th


This is also why you can't use exceeds expectations as a reason to keep a struggling coach who still finishes near the bottom. We are celebrating playing on Weakling Wednesday... Yikes.

 

[leib0039]

True but the team going into last year was rated a bottom tier team in the Big Ten- IIRC we were picked last or close to it weren't we? So he did do something. I want to get a new start but he has done some things well. He just never puts it all together. Bottom line- he doesn't win enough.

Yah like I said he gets credit for the talent acquisition on that team for sure. I just can't continue to buy "well we were picked last for the 4th straight year and we didn't finish last every year, he must be good!" argument, I guess that's not my baseline of success

 

[USAF]

But everyone says we have very little NIL. And Garcia is taking almost all at 250k.

Garcia makes $400-500k. The total is over $700k I believe.

I thinks it's closer to 1 million with Garcia getting 750,000 to 850,000 but it's impossible to verify.

Lol. Consecutive posts, no less.

I think it's safe to say we don't have a clue what the Gopher NIL situation is.

 

[GopherGrit]

He said he wants to be in top 1/3 of Big Ten. If he does that, that puts in top 1/3 - not spending same. Yes, everyone is choosing whatever they want to choose, Chip just saying word is Coyle wants to be top 1/3. That would be great! And would be more than 2/3 of Big Ten. Not that hard to understand.

My point was: how is that possible to achieve when the large majority of our dollars would be from the rev share amount that every school has the same ability to spend the same amount? I'm missing something

 

[GopherGrit]

Yes and no. Some of the issue is NIL/NCAA is still the wild west. One day you have to spend equally, next day you don't. Under the assumption that you don't have to follow title ix, every school is going to do it differently. We have hockey, some don't, other schools have elite programs in other sports that we don't. I'll take Maryland as a good example. Their football program is garbage, they have no hockey, so maybe they say forget it, we are dumping 50% into men's and women's basketball! That's going to be way different that Michigan OSU PSU who are football first.

Someone on another thread said if we dump a lot into basketball that will be an F U to the other sports. I mean sure I guess I get the concept, but that's life. I'd love for the Gophers to be dominant in every single sport, that's not feasible. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. I don't ever see us being a juggernaut in football and many others (sorry again) don't really matter. So to me basketball (low numbers needed to field a good team) hockey (our staple) and volleyball (huge tradition, fairly national brand) seem like the logical sports to be over the average on spending wise.

Thanks for this post. OK, this would make sense to me, as a way for how it's possible to get into the top 1/3rd of Big Ten relying mainly on the rev share.

Here is my pessimistic take (as a nobody with no insider connections): the massive TV deals that the Big Ten has been able to sign these last few rounds, are almost exclusively driven by football games. Not basketball games. (A little bit, but thinking like 5% vs 95% for football, or something like that.)

And so ... I could foresee the Big Ten (presidents) decreeing a hard floor of spending that schools have to adhere to for football. Say perhaps 65%.

Of course, I made that up ... just a wild guess. Just saying I wouldn't be surprised by that, if it happened

 

[GopherGrit]

Take this for what it's worth. Not sure if "steam" is the same as inside info.

Not trying to be a d__ or anything ... just wondering if this account has had reliable info in the past?

Anyone can start up a Twitter account called "Gopher XYZ" and claim anything they want.

 

[GopherGrit]

More at the expense of Olympic sports, baseball, and softball. About 5% is going to be spread across those sports. NIL is still going to be important.

I feel like Ben might be back and Coyle is comfortable with the product the last two seasons. Maybe he truly feels that revenue sharing is going to be the difference for the MBB program and the coach isn't the issue.

Do you have information about 5% going to all other sports? I thought I heard it was going to be five sports at each school and no others.

The point of revenue sharing ... is to share revenue. If the other sports don't generate any revenue, then they shouldn't get to share in the revenue.

That's my opinion

 

[LesBolstad]

The expectation at some B10 schools is to consistently make the NCAA Big Dance and compete for a B10 title every couple years.

At Minnesota, we just hope to make the B10 tournament almost every year

 

[MaxyJR1]

Do you have information about 5% going to all other sports? I thought I heard it was going to be five sports at each school and no others.

The point of revenue sharing ... is to share revenue. If the other sports don't generate any revenue, then they shouldn't get to share in the revenue.

That's my opinion

It's a sample I've seen. Georgia at one time said it would be 75% to football, 15% to Men's basketball, 5% to women's basketball and 5% to other sports.

The SEC is also sticking with 85 as the number for football instead of 105. So they will likely still have walk-ons.

A sample for Texas Tech is 74% Football, 17-18% Basketball, 2% W.Basketball, 1.9% Baseball, and 4.1-5.1% across the other 10 sports

 

[Spaulding!No!]

Picked last due to his previous 2 years. With the amount of transfers and changeover on teams nowadays, media picks based on coaches previous body of work. If Ben is back next year, regardless of our transfers we will be picked bottom 3 in the Big 10.

IMO that is a big reason half the preseason top 10 is no longer ranked.
1) Kansas- UR
2) Alabama- 7th
3) Uconn- UR
4) Houston- 3rd
5) Iowa State- 10th
6) Gonzaga- UR
7) Duke- 2nd
8) Baylor- UR
9) UNC- UR
10) Arizona- 24th


This is also why you can't use exceeds expectations as a reason to keep a struggling coach who still finishes near the bottom. We are celebrating playing on Weakling Wednesday... Yikes.

Nice work!

 

[GopherWeatherGuy]

Only took freaking Oral Roberts 2 years to fire their coach with a pretty similar first 2 years record as BJ.

 

[MNVCGUY]

Picked last due to his previous 2 years. With the amount of transfers and changeover on teams nowadays, media picks based on coaches previous body of work. If Ben is back next year, regardless of our transfers we will be picked bottom 3 in the Big 10.

IMO that is a big reason half the preseason top 10 is no longer ranked.
1) Kansas- UR
2) Alabama- 7th
3) Uconn- UR
4) Houston- 3rd
5) Iowa State- 10th
6) Gonzaga- UR
7) Duke- 2nd
8) Baylor- UR
9) UNC- UR
10) Arizona- 24th


This is also why you can't use exceeds expectations as a reason to keep a struggling coach who still finishes near the bottom. We are celebrating playing on Weakling Wednesday... Yikes.

Preseason rankings and predictions have always been garbage and in the portal era are even more worthless then they used to be because rosters change over so much year to year. Just off season filler to drum up excitement and give the networks a way to hype early season games by touting the teams ranking even if as your breakdown shows, most of the teams didn't deserve the ranking they got.

A number in here are acting like the decision has already been made to retain Johnson but I think if that was the case Coyle would have said as much. That isn't to say he isn't going to keep Ben another year but I don't think it is the done deal some do.

Coyle isn't going to be impressed by not finishing last or just barely qualifying for the Big Ten tournament....I know some like to pretend like the people in charge are incompetent morons but they see all the things we as fans see plus have the added advantage of knowing the stuff we as fans just guess about.

If Coyle keeps Ben and he fails again there is a good chance that Coyle could find himself on the hot seat along with the coach. Johnson will need some major wins in the portal to get fans excited at all about the 25-26 season.

 

[MNVCGUY]

Only took freaking Oral Roberts 2 years to fire their coach with a pretty similar first 2 years record as BJ.

Don't know anything about their situation or if there were any additional factors involved but in general hate seeing teams fire coaches after 1-2 if there isn't some off the field/court reason for it.

 

[GopherWeatherGuy]

Don't know anything about their situation or if there were any additional factors involved but in general hate seeing teams fire coaches after 1-2 if there isn't some off the field/court reason for it.

It doesn’t take 4-5 years to know if you have a good coach or not in basketball.

 

[BarnBurner]

It doesn’t take 4-5 years to know if you have a good coach or not in basketball.

But it does......at Mn.

 

[MNVCGUY]

It doesn’t take 4-5 years to know if you have a good coach or not in basketball.

Definitely reasonable to expect success faster in basketball then say football but 2 years is still a really quick hook for any coach.

But I get it, we have become an instant gratification society so patience and a willingness to give things time is becoming less common these days.

 

[USAF]

Preseason rankings and predictions have always been garbage and in the portal era are even more worthless then they used to be because rosters change over so much year to year. Just off season filler to drum up excitement and give the networks a way to hype early season games by touting the teams ranking even if as your breakdown shows, most of the teams didn't deserve the ranking they got.

A number in here are acting like the decision has already been made to retain Johnson but I think if that was the case Coyle would have said as much. That isn't to say he isn't going to keep Ben another year but I don't think it is the done deal some do.

Coyle isn't going to be impressed by not finishing last or just barely qualifying for the Big Ten tournament....I know some like to pretend like the people in charge are incompetent morons but they see all the things we as fans see plus have the added advantage of knowing the stuff we as fans just guess about.

If Coyle keeps Ben and he fails again there is a good chance that Coyle could find himself on the hot seat along with the coach. Johnson will need some major wins in the portal to get fans excited at all about the 25-26 season.

How TF could he NOT have made a decision by now?
What will change in the next week?

 

[MaxyJR1]

Not trying to be a d__ or anything ... just wondering if this account has had reliable info in the past?

Anyone can start up a Twitter account called "Gopher XYZ" and claim anything they want.

Based on what I've seen on Twitter he is connected in some way. Not sure how connected he is.

Huge supporter of the programs and attends games/matches on the regular.

 

[MaxyJR1]

Preseason rankings and predictions have always been garbage and in the portal era are even more worthless then they used to be because rosters change over so much year to year. Just off season filler to drum up excitement and give the networks a way to hype early season games by touting the teams ranking even if as your breakdown shows, most of the teams didn't deserve the ranking they got.

A number in here are acting like the decision has already been made to retain Johnson but I think if that was the case Coyle would have said as much. That isn't to say he isn't going to keep Ben another year but I don't think it is the done deal some do.

Coyle isn't going to be impressed by not finishing last or just barely qualifying for the Big Ten tournament....I know some like to pretend like the people in charge are incompetent morons but they see all the things we as fans see plus have the added advantage of knowing the stuff we as fans just guess about.

If Coyle keeps Ben and he fails again there is a good chance that Coyle could find himself on the hot seat along with the coach. Johnson will need some major wins in the portal to get fans excited at all about the 25-26 season.

Coyle just doesn't speak to media to speak. He only talks when there is some type of news and then it's not a sure thing. He works through media releases.

He will either announce the firing or announce an extension

Coyle will never be on the hot seat as long as PJ Fleck continues to perform.

 

[leib0039]

If Coyle keeps Ben and he fails again there is a good chance that Coyle could find himself on the hot seat along with the coach. Johnson will need some major wins in the portal to get fans excited at all about the 25-26 season.

I think this is an excellent point. If Coyle keeps CBJ and its not a vast improvement, I think that puts Coyle on the block too. If he gets a new coach in a weird way I think that buys himself a longer leash as well.

 

[Gophers7633]

Definitely reasonable to expect success faster in basketball then say football but 2 years is still a really quick hook for any coach.

But I get it, we have become an instant gratification society so patience and a willingness to give things time is becoming less common these days.

It's not at a program with an expectation level. He took over a program that went 18-0 in league play and two years later ran it into the ground at 3-15.

 

[Johnnyboy18]

I think this is an excellent point. If Coyle keeps CBJ and its not a vast improvement, I think that puts Coyle on the block too. If he gets a new coach in a weird way I think that buys himself a longer leash as well.

Who is going to fire Mark Coyle? Be serious with yourselves. If he isn't here it's because he left voluntarily.

 

[Bad Gopher]

Not trying to be a d__ or anything ... just wondering if this account has had reliable info in the past?

Anyone can start up a Twitter account called "Gopher XYZ" and claim anything they want.

I don't ever remember that person presenting inside information before. It's a solid account by a close fan of multiple Gopher programs. Could be plugged in or hear things from people...or not. I mean, everyone knows someone who knows something. There's a guy at our church who's close to the basketball program; if I see him Sunday, I'll ask him if he knows anything.

 

[bleedsmaroonandgold]

Coyle just doesn't speak to media to speak. He only talks when there is some type of news and then it's not a sure thing. He works through media releases.

He will either announce the firing or announce an extension

Coyle will never be on the hot seat as long as PJ Fleck continues to perform.

Coyle will give a press conferences to tell us whether or not Ben will be the coach next year, and we will finish that conference with no idea whether or not Ben has been fired.

 

[Johnnyboy18]

Coyle will give a press conferences to tell us whether or not Ben will be the coach next year, and we will finish that conference with no idea whether or not Ben has been fired.

Never forget the "we will honor the contract in full" from the Claeys presser.

 

[MaxyJR1]

Coyle will give a press conferences to tell us whether or not Ben will be the coach next year, and we will finish that conference with no idea whether or not Ben has been fired.

But will Ben get off the elevator on the way to the press conference?

 

[GopherWeatherGuy]

Definitely reasonable to expect success faster in basketball then say football but 2 years is still a really quick hook for any coach.

But I get it, we have become an instant gratification society so patience and a willingness to give things time is becoming less common these days.

It's easy to spot a leader and a program builder after two years, even if they don't have a lot of success right away. You can tell if there's an obvious system in place, recruiting improves, the players buy in, and the coach is a leader.

Ben has provided none of those qualities and it has been obvious since early in year 2. Kudos to Oral Roberts for recognizing that before wasting more money and more of the fans time.