Scoggins: Word is Mark Coyle wants to build Gophers men’s basketball. What does it mean for Ben Johnson?

Then fire Coyle right away.

If you believe that he's sending a cryptic message via Scoggins to the coaching fraternity...hoping that they see it with conference tournaments around the corner, instead of reaching out directly to any targets, or their agents, then just fire him.

I think it's a panacea leading into season ticket renewal season.
Did you read the article? Coyle isn't talking to Scroggins. Nor do I think a prospective coach would ever see this article.

Coyle can talk to any coaching targets he wants, and 99% of them would hear him out.

Many coaches would be excited about a guaranteed multimillion-dollar sum of money to assemble their team. I expect the details will be delivered by Coyle directly when the time comes.
 


$5M is 25%. Football should get 75%. So that leaves nothing for hockey, volleyball, etc.
Sample
$20.5 to share:
75% Football $15.375M (105 players) $146,428 average per player
10% Men's Basketball $2.050M (15 players) $136,666 per player
5% Hockey $1.025M (26 players) $39,500 per player
2% Women's Basketball $410,000 (15 players) $27.300 per player
2% Volleyball $410,000 (18 players) $22,777 per player
5% Other Sports $1.025M Spread across about 500 athletes
 

Those players yielded basically the same quality as this year's team. Only significantly less notable wins.
True but the same players with another year of experience could have made the difference. Of the losses I saw, at least a few of them could have been turned around with a decent mobile big man that we lost.

What these theoretical conversations are failing to acknowledge is that there was a lot of chatter about a toxic locker room at the end of last season and they played like it. Cash a factor for sure but it certainly seemed like there was more to it than that.
 




True but the same players with another year of experience could have made the difference. Of the losses I saw, at least a few of them could have been turned around with a decent mobile big man that we lost.

What these theoretical conversations are failing to acknowledge is that there was a lot of chatter about a toxic locker room at the end of last season and they played like it. Cash a factor for sure but it certainly seemed like there was more to it than that.

I contend with Hawkins and PP, we may have been a fringe bubble team. But the conference schedule was tougher this season, so you never know. Takes a pretty big leap to go from 90th in the NET to top 60, especially given how Ben schedules the OOC.
 

Let’s say this is true. Wouldn’t you have to give Johnson a 6th year?

If the last 4 years weren’t enough time to make a decision on Johnson it would seem logical you need to give him more than one year under the revenue sharing plan and increased NIL budget. 🤷‍♂️
Exactly. Because you never want to evaluate a coach entirely based on just one year of performance. So the only way you can do this right is with an extension and a multiple-year additional commitment. Do you really want to do that with a person you shouldn't have hired in the first place and whose performance to date bears that out? Wins and losses aside, it's all out there on the court for everyone to see. Just last night, the coaches seriously flubbed up three things that were arguably the difference in the game. Not to mention recruiting players who can't shoot free throws...and then recruiting practically a whole new roster who also can't shoot free throws. Who does that!?
 
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I contend with Hawkins and PP, we may have been a fringe bubble team. But the conference schedule was tougher this season, so you never know. Takes a pretty big leap to go from 90th in the NET to top 60, especially given how Ben schedules the OOC.
If Hawkins and PP stayed, you probably don't get Frank and Patterson. I would say the win total would have been about the same.....
 



If Hawkins and PP stayed, you probably don't get Frank and Patterson. I would say the win total would have been about the same.....
Exactly. Probably two more non conference wins and about one more B1G win. Not enough to be a bubble team.
 

Exactly. Probably two more non conference wins and about one more B1G win. Not enough to be a bubble team.
Friendly amendment that there are a lot of below .500 conference teams on the bubble. Between skills and experience, I think those two were significant losses and Frank and Patterson took half the season to perform at a winning level.
 

If Hawkins and PP stayed, you probably don't get Frank and Patterson. I would say the win total would have been about the same.....
No. Hawkins made everyone else better. He got MM lots of open shots. Frank has been really good lately but Payne is much better. Payne is almost 10 pts 5 bds in 19 minutes while Frank is 5 pts 4 bds in 15.5 minutes. Payne blocks shots and defends better than Frank. Both guys are starting on top 20 teams. Patterson is not a PG and could have played with Hawkins if he wanted to come here. With Payne we would not be playing the 5 out garbage offense and it would have been easier for everyone else to get shots with a post up threat on the roster.

Hawkins, Mike Mitchell, Odukale, Garcia and Payne would have been a pretty formidable starting lineup.
 

Friendly amendment that there are a lot of below .500 conference teams on the bubble. Between skills and experience, I think those two were significant losses and Frank and Patterson took half the season to perform at a winning level.
I agree that it would have made more difference early. But we didn't have a lot of close losses early in B1G play. They certainly would have beaten North Texas and Wichita. And then probably Ohio State and Washington.

But they also probably would have lost at least one of the LA games without Patterson and Mitchell (USC specifically). So I don't think it's a net of more than 1-2 B1G win difference.
 



If Hawkins and PP stayed, you probably don't get Frank and Patterson. I would say the win total would have been about the same.....

Hawkins and Payne are both significantly better and more valuable players than Patterson and Mitchell (God bless them.) Hawkins set the Minnesota single season assist record and is currently leading the Big 12 in assists. He is currently the quarterback for a team ranked in the Top Ten.

Payne had potential to be a double-double machine with the minutes he would have played here.

They are fairly significant upgrades to Frank Mitchell (4.7 ppg/4.4 rpg) and Patterson (11.8ppg/3.6apg), in my opinion.

How many extra wins would that have meant? Total guess work, but it would have definitely been enough extra wins to make things a lot more interesting.
 
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Mist Big10 programs can go into a kids house and ask if they want to play on a team that consistently makes the NCAA tournament or if they want to play for a constant losing program at Minnesota. Ben Johnson cannot refute four years of bottom dwelling, non tournament basketball with him as a coach. If Coyle wants any chance at better recruits then he has to fire Ben and hire a coach that, at minimum, gives kids hope that they can play in the NCAA tournament. Ben has a 0% track record. Every coach will put that stat up before any potential recruit and then they will match the money.
Coyle, you fired Claeys for much less. Now you need to fire Johnson. As @Stan says "Getter Done!!!"
Not even close to the same situation.
 

Sample
$20.5 to share:
75% Football $15.375M (105 players) $146,428 average per player
10% Men's Basketball $2.050M (15 players) $136,666 per player
5% Hockey $1.025M (26 players) $39,500 per player
2% Women's Basketball $410,000 (15 players) $27.300 per player
2% Volleyball $410,000 (18 players) $22,777 per player
5% Other Sports $1.025M Spread across about 500 athletes
You don't have to pay much for the bottom half of the football or basketball roster. I'd go 65% football 20% mens basketball, 7% hockey, 6% women's buckets 2% women's VB and nothing for the rest (non- revenue). At 4 million you could have a really nice BB squad with a million dollar player, a couple 700k guys, a couple 500k guys, a 200 k slot and 400k for another half dozen guys to split.
 

Hawkins and Payne are both significantly better and more valuable players than Patterson and Mitchell (God bless them.) Hawkins set the Minnesota single season assist record and is currently leading the Big 12 in assists. He is currently the quarterback for a team ranked in the Top Ten.

Payne had potential to be a double-double machine with the minutes he would have played here.

They are a fairly significant upgrades to Frank Mitchell and Patterson, in my opinion.

How many extra wins would that have meant? Total guess work, but it would have definitely been enough extra wins to make things a lot more interesting.
There is yet another element. If Hawkins and Payne had stayed it would have been a lot easier for Ben to attract a few higher end players to come to team that would have a real chance to compete with a nucleus of Garcia, Payne, Hawkins and Mike Mitchell. Instead he was stuck with selling guys on a whole new roster.

Suddenly people are selling themselves on the idea that we have a roster that is about as talented as last year. That's not even close to true. The talent is BAD. That is a knock on Ben and on the U.
I don't like Ben's offense or defense but I will say that he got more out of this roster, which I felt was one of the worst I had ever seen here, than I ever thought he would. They play hard.
 

Did you read the article?

Click on a Strib article?

No. I do not support that site.

And I was not citing any article, I was responding to a previous post about reading the tea leaves.
 
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There is yet another element. If Hawkins and Payne had stayed it would have been a lot easier for Ben to attract a few higher end players to come to team that would have a real chance to compete with a nucleus of Garcia, Payne, Hawkins and Mike Mitchell. Instead he was stuck with selling guys on a whole new roster.
That's a bit of a stretch. By the time Hawkins bailed a large % of portal moves had already been made. And it's doubtful Pharrel Payne's presence would have swayed anyone by itself.
 

There is yet another element. If Hawkins and Payne had stayed it would have been a lot easier for Ben to attract a few higher end players to come to team that would have a real chance to compete with a nucleus of Garcia, Payne, Hawkins and Mike Mitchell. Instead he was stuck with selling guys on a whole new roster.

Suddenly people are selling themselves on the idea that we have a roster that is about as talented as last year. That's not even close to true. The talent is BAD. That is a knock on Ben and on the U.
I don't like Ben's offense or defense but I will say that he got more out of this roster, which I felt was one of the worst I had ever seen here, than I ever thought he would. They play hard.

Ben's biggest saving grace is that Dawson Garcia stayed. He is a top end Big Ten player that allowed a mostly middling roster to win 7 Big Ten games.
 

If he is serious, pay a coach and get the wrecking ball to replace Williams in current location. Play at Target center for a couple years
I was crucified for this statement. If logistics can be met, move to target center until a solution on campus makes sense. Much better fan experience downtown vs on campus, better pre game day offering.
 

I was crucified for this statement. If logistics can be met, move to target center until a solution on campus makes sense. Much better fan experience downtown vs on campus, better pre game day offering.
Terrible for students. I can speak to that as a student season ticket holder in the metro dump in college.
 

The problem has been the coaching and how he's assembled the roster. Hustle and effort is half of the battle, which is why we've won about half of our games.
Do I think Johnson needs to be gone after this season? 100% yes. The sign of a coach is improvement from year to year, in wins, overall coaching, and recruiting. The only one of those that's improved is the recruiting (in terms of quantity of quality players)
Do I think Johnson will get another chance with more resources? I put it at 50/50. We need a fresh change of scenery though. We need it yesterday
 

Sample
$20.5 to share:
75% Football $15.375M (105 players) $146,428 average per player
10% Men's Basketball $2.050M (15 players) $136,666 per player
5% Hockey $1.025M (26 players) $39,500 per player
2% Women's Basketball $410,000 (15 players) $27.300 per player
2% Volleyball $410,000 (18 players) $22,777 per player
5% Other Sports $1.025M Spread across about 500 athletes
Scoggins article said $5-6M for mens bb
 


Terrible for students. I can speak to that as a student season ticket holder in the metro dump in college.
Yep. I think you start by investing in buying a team with the right coach. Build momentum. Then go after a new arena. A full Barn with a good team is still amazing. The sight lines in non-obstructed seats are as close as you will ever get to the floor.
 

My impression is Coyle was probably leaning toward moving on from Ben, but the Gophers' surprising Big Ten win total has given him second thoughts.

I think the most impressive thing about this team is the 7-8 record in Quad One games. 7 Quad 1 wins ties for 9th in the nation. In conference, only the two Michigans, UCLA, and Oregon have more. Maryland, Purdue, and Illinois have the same 7. The Gophers' ability to outshine their comparable programs on the road has been the key.

Unfortunately, they're surprisingly bad at Quad 2 & 3 games (combined 1-7 record with 6 of those games at home and 2 at a neutral location).
 
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If Coyle does bring Johnson back for another year and it’s another one of mediocre performance and no tournament (as many observers from his first 4 years expect), then Coyle’s ass needs to be on the firing line, too. He’s solely responsible for letting this program die on the vine and needs to be held accountable.

My guess is that Coyle isn't evaluated primarily on the competitive success of any single program. A lot of you seem not to understand that Athletic Directors primarily are business managers. I think you confuse them with professional sports franchise general managers.
 

What these theoretical conversations are failing to acknowledge is that there was a lot of chatter about a toxic locker room at the end of last season and they played like it. Cash a factor for sure but it certainly seemed like there was more to it than that.

Well, if you assemble a list of things that often can lead to toxic grievances, I would guess that money is high on the list.
 

Sample
$20.5 to share:
75% Football $15.375M (105 players) $146,428 average per player
10% Men's Basketball $2.050M (15 players) $136,666 per player
5% Hockey $1.025M (26 players) $39,500 per player
2% Women's Basketball $410,000 (15 players) $27.300 per player
2% Volleyball $410,000 (18 players) $22,777 per player
5% Other Sports $1.025M Spread across about 500 athletes

Other sports are getting nothing. The distribution is only those five sports.
 




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