Reusse on TCF Atmosphere Story Headline: "Honeymoon with U football dying of apathy"

[diehard]

Considering the general public no, and you made a well reasoned argument why people shouldn't care. On a Gopher Football Fan Board? Yeah, you might be part of a small minority. Even the trolls and the "U" haters care. They just want there to be LESS people, not more. Interestingly enough, when Wren and company were confronted with the fact that there only 19,000 or so in the Dome for a Non-Conference game their response was "Good! We only want TRUE fans in there!". Their all consuming hatred for anybody who worked for the U always took precedence over the "kids" playing ball.

Take a look at the Comments section on the Ruesse article and you'll see his Anti-Administartion Crusade continuing.

Many of us would just like to see the 'U" do well and selflessly, it's a whole lot more fun being at a game full of people cheering with you. I even hope that Iowa and Wisconsin fans continue to show up at THEIR home field. Now whether you go to the game or not THAT I couldn't care less about.

Plus a full rocking stadium is important to recruiting. It does make a difference.

 

[RailBaronYarr]

My wife is not from here and she would say this to this comment. "Spoken like someone that has never spent any time outside of MPLS/STP." Guess what, people hunt all over this beautiful country and the weather is the same in many areas that get better attendance. Most of the obstacles that people mention are petty and with a rush of passionate fans would be overcome.

I've spent plenty of time outside MSP. I never pointed to weather as a reason or excuse for anything, I sufficiently put blame where its due on all parties involved (students, general fans, the city, and the U itself). That said, there's a reason there was a meeting of athletic departments whose schools reside in major metro areas and what ways they can successfully market their programs and develop/retain fanbases. Let me tell you, there are FAR fewer distractions in Iowa City (which I have spent plenty of time seeing as my in-laws live there) and the team has a MUCH easier time with the city on creating (or fostering) a healthy gameday atmosphere.

If you want to go ahead and think there are no reasons for our failure and that all we have to do is pick ourselves up by the bootstraps and just start having a good ol' time, then I think you're a little off. I offer SOME of the true, logistical problems and roadblocks we've had to creating a truly fun gameday atmosphere that can draw and maintain a certain number of fans regardless of the W/L stat each year. Yes, good times will pack the seats and slumps will cause fans to wane. But the goal is to keep that window of Demand/Available Seats between 85% and 115%, not 40% to 80%.

 

[RailBaronYarr]

unfortunately, this is what people get when they elect neo-neighborhood activist association types like cam gordon of the freaking green party to represent this part of the city. the guy cares far more about what a small group of n.i.m.b.y., nosey, hippie, mostly sports-hating neighborhood association types want than what is best for the U of M overall and what is best for a game day experience/atmosphere.

get rid of activist tool bags like cam gordon and elect someone to the city council who is pro fun, entrepreneurial in spirit and who will fight for things that will enable a better and more party like game day atmosphere. as well as better opportunities for commerce to flourish on game days for small business and private parking lot owners.

have at me for hating on the green party and liberals. would say the same thing about a conservative who didn't support what is best of the U of M and for game days. just want to see someone finally elected to city council from that part of minneapolis that is not some looney, fringe, neighborhood activist type. i am quite certain that cam gordon could not give a sh!t about football (pee wee, high school, college or pro)

I've found that conservatives and liberals alike are NIMBY types for many things, each according to their own personal interests and beliefs. That said, yes in this particular case many people that live near campus happen to be liberal. The urban environment and campus life (sans sports) typically draw that type of crowd.

On to a point I made on a thread a while back.. I see this as an opportunity for the U. Yes, they have the benefit of being so urban and close to the amenities a big city offers unlike any school in the B10 except NW. However, one of the downsides is that there is not a true "campus feel" outside the Dinkytown and Stadium Village student borders. Drive around Iowa City/Coralville and you'll see what I mean, Hawkeye flags everywhere, community events named after Iowa icons with UI themes. Clearly recent and retired alumni passionate about their school like to live there. The U should start partnering with Minneapolis and St Paul along with developers to offer alums housing. Over the long-haul, this can build a community of Gopher fans who WANT to live nearby. Obviously the LRT will allow the free market to create natural housing supply, but the U can help direct people to those locations. It can also do some proactive marketing and public relations work with neighborhood/community leaders to set appropriate boundaries/rules, put on events, and much more to bring these people in to the "U's fold." Just a few ideas. In an area like this, the U is going to have to do a bit more work to compete for people's attention and loyalty than in a town like Iowa City.

 

[MspHawk]

Personally, I think the atmosphere debate comes down to two things:winning and us as fans. I have no chance in helping coach Kill win any games on the field but I can go out and have a good time. I will be there every Saturday bright and early (yes dear I want to be in the lot at 7:00am) setting up the canopy, the grill , the tv and putting the beer on ice. See ya Saturdays!

This I got a kick out of.........try showing up at 7 in iowa city and see for yourself, try 5 or you wont even find a spot and that goes for night games too.

 

[Gold Vision]

This I got a kick out of.........try showing up at 7 in iowa city and see for yourself, try 5 or you wont even find a spot and that goes for night games too.

LOL!

 

[RailBaronYarr]

This I got a kick out of.........try showing up at 7 in iowa city and see for yourself, try 5 or you wont even find a spot and that goes for night games too.

That's funny cuz I showed up at 7:00 for an 11 AM game for a tailgating spot at Finkbine in 2007 for the MN game and got a spot halfway down without a problem.

 

[RodentRampage]

We don't have to go back to the 60's for an example of good attendance. In 1985, the Gophers averaged over 60,000 per game. The Gophers were only 4-7 the previous season, but this was Lou Holtz's second season, and fans had faith that there were better days ahead. By 1992, only the Iowa game had an attendance as high as 37,000.

There's a strange mix of gloom and optimism around Gopher football these days. There is optimism that Jerry Kill has the Gophers on the right path, but at the same time, there is a general sense of gloom that you're not really allowed to be optimistic about the Gophers. Gopher fans did take some hits during the Brewster regime, the 2007 season was a real nightmare. The 2008 season rekindled some optimism, but that only made the collapse more disenheartening. 2009 wasn't actually a bad season, but student attendance dwindled. Everyone wanted to be at the first game. Some students thought they were going to be able to scalp their student tickets. Losses to South Dakota and New Mexico State, and squeaking it out against SDSU just deflated the fans further. If we were still in the dome, the enthusiasm gap would be at least as large.

And articles that imply that the Gophers are only going to sell 2,000 of the student tickets don't help the perception either. The Gophers are on pace to sell over half of the allotment. That's still not great, but a lot better than a mere 2,000. There are a lot of nagging doubts, and hopefully, a good performance against UNLV will alleviate some of them. People are watching to see if the Gophers will be able to defeat the teams they should defeat. The Gophers can put a better product on the field, but while that's an important part, it's only a part. People still have to see the game as an event, a place worth being. That's not easy, but it can be done.

 

[HouseOfHagen]

That's funny cuz I showed up at 7:00 for an 11 AM game for a tailgating spot at Finkbine in 2007 for the MN game and got a spot halfway down without a problem.

I can second, third, and fourth that statement. The three times I've been to Kinnick, I've never arrived to tailgate before 7am and all three games started at 11am. I never had an issue getting a decent spot at one of the main lots.

 

[station19]

We don't have to go back to the 60's for an example of good attendance. In 1985, the Gophers averaged over 60,000 per game. The Gophers were only 4-7 the previous season, but this was Lou Holtz's second season, and fans had faith that there were better days ahead. By 1992, only the Iowa game had an attendance as high as 37,000.

There's a strange mix of gloom and optimism around Gopher football these days. There is optimism that Jerry Kill has the Gophers on the right path, but at the same time, there is a general sense of gloom that you're not really allowed to be optimistic about the Gophers. Gopher fans did take some hits during the Brewster regime, the 2007 season was a real nightmare. The 2008 season rekindled some optimism, but that only made the collapse more disenheartening. 2009 wasn't actually a bad season, but student attendance dwindled. Everyone wanted to be at the first game. Some students thought they were going to be able to scalp their student tickets. Losses to South Dakota and New Mexico State, and squeaking it out against SDSU just deflated the fans further. If we were still in the dome, the enthusiasm gap would be at least as large.

And articles that imply that the Gophers are only going to sell 2,000 of the student tickets don't help the perception either. The Gophers are on pace to sell over half of the allotment. That's still not great, but a lot better than a mere 2,000. There are a lot of nagging doubts, and hopefully, a good performance against UNLV will alleviate some of them. People are watching to see if the Gophers will be able to defeat the teams they should defeat. The Gophers can put a better product on the field, but while that's an important part, it's only a part. People still have to see the game as an event, a place worth being. That's not easy, but it can be done.

Agreed.

The people that say winning is all that matters are being mentally lazy. If we're averaging 35,000 to 40,000 people for a team that is by no means 'winning', there must be more to it.

Time to figure out what that is and what can be done to improve upon it.

 

[MaroonGopher]

The overall atmosphere and tailgating experience is better at Winona State, and probably half of the other schools in the NSIC, than it is at Minnesota. I went to college in Winona at SMU and still found a way to engulf myself in the atmosphere before Warrior games. I would roll out of bed, hear the band marching through campus (when I slept overnight there), throw on a hooded sweatshirt, grab some strong coffee and head to the stadium. There was always a main tent with free food and beverages (soda, water) as cars would line up for blocks. The brats where -- and still are -- amazing the the atmosphere festive.

 

[jovs]

Reusse's right on, there has never been an atmosphere where Gopher football games were an event for the students, really are starting from scratch, the one thing they could try is to let students in for free, have a lottery for 10,000 tickets and check to make sure students are using them and can't be sold, forego the revenue to create an environment, I'm pretty sure my wife said where she went to school students got in free.

 

[RodentRampage]

Here's a map of average attendance at the Metrodome. Attendance was big the first year, but then dropped by over 10,000. Part of it was that the novelty wore off, but part was the three-win season in 1982. But attendance increased by 3,000 following the disastrous 1983 season. The difference is that Lou Holtz came in, and bought a great deal of optimism. After the 4-7 1984 season, average attendance increased to the highest level since 1962. Of course, Lou Holtz left after two seasons. The attendance decreased though the Gutekunst era.


1982,58,898
1983,48,735
1984,51,791
1985,60,985
1986,55,848
1987,53,131
1988,44,665
1989,39,607
1990,40,585
1991,36,369
1992.37,908
1993,39,996
1994,42,309
1995,48,574
1996,43,519
1997,44,898
1998,41,642
1999,45,441
2000,47,352
2001,43,485
2002,41,785
2003,44,148
2004,47,573
2005,49,024
2006,52,206
2007,51,791
2008,48,958

 

[short ornery norwegian]

Question - is that actual attendance (i.e a turnstile count) - or is it "tickets sold."

I believe from the numbers listed, that they are giving "tickets sold," NOT actual bodies in seats.

Even when Mason had some of his best teams, there were always a lot of empty seats at games at the Dome - unless the visiting team (IA, WI) came in and hoovered up a lot of unsold tickets.

MN fans have proven over and over again that they'll support a winning team, but they won't support a losing team. Look at the numbers over the years for the old North Stars, the Twins, The Timberwolves, the Vikings and Gopher Basketball. (men's and women's).

 

[RodentRampage]

That's paid attendance, not actual attendance. Nobody lists actual attendance, but actual attendance tracks with paid attendance; if paid attendance is up, actual attendance is probably up as well. If the Gophers win, they might not sell a lot more tickets, but more people might actually decide to come to the stadium.

 

[Ski U Mah 55]

Question - is that actual attendance (i.e a turnstile count) - or is it "tickets sold."

I believe from the numbers listed, that they are giving "tickets sold," NOT actual bodies in seats.

Even when Mason had some of his best teams, there were always a lot of empty seats at games at the Dome - unless the visiting team (IA, WI) came in and hoovered up a lot of unsold tickets.

MN fans have proven over and over again that they'll support a winning team, but they won't support a losing team. Look at the numbers over the years for the old North Stars, the Twins, The Timberwolves, the Vikings and Gopher Basketball. (men's and women's).

Typically it's sold.

 

[RailBaronYarr]

Typically it's sold.

Guarantee the numbers Reusse was using from the 60s and 70s were turnstyle numbers because at some point between 1980 and 2012 they (being every major sporting group) started using the sold numbers instead. I don't care that's how it's done now (even if it does allow the athletic department to feel nice and rosy about their situation when "so many people came! look at the 'attendance' numbers!), it just bothers me that you can try to compare current numbers to the past where reporting was done differently.

 

[Ski U Mah 55]

Guarantee the numbers Reusse was using from the 60s and 70s were turnstyle numbers because at some point between 1980 and 2012 they (being every major sporting group) started using the sold numbers instead. I don't care that's how it's done now (even if it does allow the athletic department to feel nice and rosy about their situation when "so many people came! look at the 'attendance' numbers!), it just bothers me that you can try to compare current numbers to the past where reporting was done differently.

Could you imagine the ripping if the Gophers used turnstile numbers these days? Some of the games last season would've been about 25,000.

 

[RodentRampage]

Could you imagine the ripping if the Gophers used turnstile numbers these days? Some of the games last season would've been about 25,000.

Because then we would be comparing Minnesota actual attendance with every other school's ticket sales. It wouldn't be a useful comparison.

 

[Ski U Mah 55]

Because then we would be comparing Minnesota actual attendance with every other school's ticket sales. It wouldn't be a useful comparison.

Obviously. I wasn't suggesting they do that.

 

[FanSinceTheFifties]

There's no comparison between the atmosphere at UM and at schools in college towns (e.g. Iowa City, Lincoln, State College, Madison, Fayetteville, Lexington, Lawrence) and there can't be. College FB and, generally to a lesser degree, basketball are the top attractions in those towns while UM FB is probably 5th behind Vikings, Twins, Wild, Timberwolves, and Gopher hockey. And Gopher basketball behind that. Gopher FB cannot be rebuilt back to the national championship levels but it can be good enough such that we fans can watch every game thinking we CAN win this one. During the last too many years, there have been too many games that we just knew we couldn't win. By supporting the team even when they are not dominant, we fans can assist in re-building the program. By recruiting good kids who are coachable and behave well, then coaching them into a well-executing team, the U can help itself. I'm optimistic that we can return to mid-level Big Ten status in a few years, then build from there to challenge for the occasional conference championship in a few more -- despite the handicap of a non-college atmosphere.

 

[mnsportsgeek]

There's no comparison between the atmosphere at UM and at schools in college towns (e.g. Iowa City, Lincoln, State College, Madison, Fayetteville, Lexington, Lawrence) and there can't be. College FB and, generally to a lesser degree, basketball are the top attractions in those towns while UM FB is probably 5th behind Vikings, Twins, Wild, Timberwolves, and Gopher hockey. And Gopher basketball behind that. Gopher FB cannot be rebuilt back to the national championship levels but it can be good enough such that we fans can watch every game thinking we CAN win this one. During the last too many years, there have been too many games that we just knew we couldn't win. By supporting the team even when they are not dominant, we fans can assist in re-building the program. By recruiting good kids who are coachable and behave well, then coaching them into a well-executing team, the U can help itself. I'm optimistic that we can return to mid-level Big Ten status in a few years, then build from there to challenge for the occasional conference championship in a few more -- despite the handicap of a non-college atmosphere.

To say that we will NEVER compete for a national title is little over the top. We won't for the forseeable future, but if someone would have told you Wisconsin would be going for its third straight B1G title this year 10 years ago, you would have laughed in their face.

 

[station19]

There's no comparison between the atmosphere at UM and at schools in college towns (e.g. Iowa City, Lincoln, State College, Madison, Fayetteville, Lexington, Lawrence) and there can't be. College FB and, generally to a lesser degree, basketball are the top attractions in those towns while UM FB is probably 5th behind Vikings, Twins, Wild, Timberwolves, and Gopher hockey. And Gopher basketball behind that. Gopher FB cannot be rebuilt back to the national championship levels but it can be good enough such that we fans can watch every game thinking we CAN win this one. During the last too many years, there have been too many games that we just knew we couldn't win. By supporting the team even when they are not dominant, we fans can assist in re-building the program. By recruiting good kids who are coachable and behave well, then coaching them into a well-executing team, the U can help itself. I'm optimistic that we can return to mid-level Big Ten status in a few years, then build from there to challenge for the occasional conference championship in a few more -- despite the handicap of a non-college atmosphere.

Gopher FB behind Gopher Hockey. You have to be kidding me.

Just another example of how delusional hockey fans are.

 

[4four4]

Gopher FB behind Gopher Hockey. You have to be kidding me.

Just another example of how delusional hockey fans are.

The sentence you highlighted is a little confusing. Is he saying Gopher football is behind the four pro franchises or sixth behind Gopher hockey? My guess is Gopher football gets better ratings than everything but the Vikings and Twins.

 

[station19]

The sentence you highlighted is a little confusing. Is he saying Gopher football is behind the four pro franchises or sixth behind Gopher hockey? My guess is Gopher football gets better ratings than everything but the Vikings and Twins.

Many hockey fans live in a parallel universe.

 

[RailBaronYarr]

Because then we would be comparing Minnesota actual attendance with every other school's ticket sales. It wouldn't be a useful comparison.

But comparing current/recent (tickets sold) numbers as attendance to 1970s (actual bodies in seats) attendance is equally as misleading. Therein lies the problem - consistency of data reporting. It would be the same as a corporation reporting revenue in dollars then switching to Euros one year but calling it dollars and trying to compare the two. I know I've brought this up on this board many times before but it bothers me that the excuse for why we do it is because "everyone else does." Just use the term "Tickets Sold" rather than "Attendance" because one is truth and the other is misleading and paints a picture of better numbers than reality.

 

[MrGopher]

Many hockey fans live in a parallel universe.

Yup. One where losing is downright unacceptable.

Imagine that.

 

[Iceland12]

But comparing current/recent (tickets sold) numbers as attendance to 1970s (actual bodies in seats) attendance is equally as misleading. Therein lies the problem - consistency of data reporting. It would be the same as a corporation reporting revenue in dollars then switching to Euros one year but calling it dollars and trying to compare the two. I know I've brought this up on this board many times before but it bothers me that the excuse for why we do it is because "everyone else does." Just use the term "Tickets Sold" rather than "Attendance" because one is truth and the other is misleading and paints a picture of better numbers than reality.

Actually not if "everyone else does it" it doesn't. Then for comparison purposes it's fair. As for past comparisons you've got a point - to a point. It wouldn't take into account all the "papering of the house" that took place. All those "high schools tickets" some a lot more that "reasonably" priced counted as "Attendance". Anybody else getting freebee or "coupon" tickets counted also. Hell, people who come in way late and leave early are counted. Did they "attend" the game? Sure, in a rather loose interpretation, in much the same way as attendance has become to mean tickets sold.

It would certainly make Gopher Hockey look worse. Unlike TCF where it's the cheaper (Student) seats that are empty at Mariucci it's the good seats that aren't filled. Hard for TV to cover that up. Think they finally took some steps to fix it. Never heard much outrage on THOSE seats being empty. Wonder why?

It does make Ruesse's point even stronger though. He used the numbers in the 70's before the Dome opened. They were probably much lower then people generally believe. If he could have used actual attendance numbers you'd really see how students have avoided going to the game for years. "students from 62 to 18!

 

[MNfootballfan]

Gopher FB behind Gopher Hockey. You have to be kidding me.

Just another example of how delusional hockey fans are.

I agree 100%. I would say that Gopher Hockey is either tied for second or third in sports at the U. Gopher football is complaining about attendance and are drawing 30,000-40,0000 fans to a game. Gopher hockey is around 10,000 fans to a game. NFL is king, and college football is second best in the USA. I would say there is as much of a draw to the Gopher football team as the Timberwolves. Although, that might have changed in the last 12 months with Rubio and some of their latest additions.

 

[MrGopher]

I agree 100%. I would say that Gopher Hockey is either tied for second or third in sports at the U. Gopher football is complaining about attendance and are drawing 30,000-40,0000 fans to a game. Gopher hockey is around 10,000 fans to a game. NFL is king, and college football is second best in the USA. I would say there is as much of a draw to the Gopher football team as the Timberwolves.

So is Gopher Football bigger because its Gopher football or is because it is football and the Gophers are our team?

Remember that Gopher hockey drew 256,499 fans to games this past season. That's an average of 9,865 fans a game. (Or 98.65% of capacity). One of the largest venues in the sport - always nearly full, regardless of the opponent.
Gopher Football drew 333,996 fans. That's 47,713 fans a game. (Or 93.9% of capacity on the year). One of the smallest venues in the country at our tier of football - and we rely on opposing fans to help us (almost) fill it. And it's a gorgeous place to watch football - and we had gorgeous weather more often than not.

And I was at the NDSU game, the Nebraska game, the Iowa game, and the wisconsin game. I saw the colors in our stadium those days, and I'm guessing you did too. You think everyone was there to see the Gophers?
You ever see the crowds at a St. Cloud, Mankato, or wisconsin home game when they play Minnesota? - tons of Gophers fans mixed in there. And those cities really aren't the greatest tourist draws or greatest venues to watch hockey. They are there to see the Gophers.

 

[TAW]

S
Remember that Gopher hockey drew 256,499 fans to games this past season. That's an average of 9,865 fans a game. (Or 98.65% of capacity). One of the largest venues in the sport - always nearly full, regardless of the opponent.
Gopher Football drew 333,996 fans. That's 47,713 fans a game. (Or 93.9% of capacity on the year). One of the smallest venues in the country at our tier of football - and we rely on opposing fans to help us (almost) fill it. And it's a gorgeous place to watch football - and we had gorgeous weather more often than not.

Well, to put the hockey attendance in perspective, the Badgers led the nation in attendance for the 14th consecutive year, with a team that placed 10th (yes, 10th) in the WCHA. Average attendance for hockey was 11,773, so we outdrew Minnesota by more than 1,900 per game (19.3%), with a pretty crappy team (I left a game early for the first time EVER last year).

After having lived in both states, I have come to the conclusion that rabid fans of both states are of equal rabidity, but the sports fan gene is recessive in the Minnesota gene pool. A lot of people would just rather walk around Lake Harriet than watch the Gophers, while in Madison, fans will walk around Lake Monona before or after watching the Badgers.