Reusse is Guessing it's Gonna be P.J. Fleck

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Word said:
If there was a pattern of this type of thing happening or being covered up, yes, that's a poorly run program. Players getting out of control one night does not equate to a poorly run program. If idiotic behavior was being condoned that's one thing, but the players were suspended once it was known what happened. Smith was kicked off the team for knucklehead behavior, so it shows Claeys is not afraid to discipline the players.

To me a poorly run program is one that covers up this kind of stuff and never lets it get out to the media, like Baylor.
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I agree with your second paragraph for sure, but it's curious to me that Smith got kicked off the team and the original four who were suspended were not. If they had been would the EOAA investigation still have occurred? Why no EOAA investigation for Lynch?
 

Look...IF you feel the need to fire Tracy... it better be after classes start and players are enrolled or you won't have lot's of guys returning. Firing the assistants will increase the number leaving. Our recruiting class might be mediocre but we have one. Without a coach we won't have many/any guys coming depending on the situation.

No respectable coach is going to work for Coyle and Kaler if they fire Tracy to cover their own butts. You'd be dumb to walk into that. You need support. No matter who the coach is...stuff happens. Without the support of a new administration we'll have a new coach every year...each one worse than the last.

And how about we wait until these guys have their hearing? We have no idea right now if these guys are guilty. Fire the coach and these guys are found innocent or the punishment is greatly reduced...then what? Are they staying? Highly doubt it.... depending on the timeline how bad does that look if you fired Tracy? You taking the job as a prospective coach? Not to mention the screwed handling of the whole thing...120 guys...nobody is going to have sex? How many that do will have their consent form signed? Just a mess to walk into as the new guy...you are now answering those sexual assault questions certainly for many months.

Firing Tracy makes things worse!
 


60's Guy said:
Look...IF you feel the need to fire Tracy... it better be after classes start and players are enrolled or you won't have lot's of guys returning. Firing the assistants will increase the number leaving. Our recruiting class might be mediocre but we have one. Without a coach we won't have many/any guys coming depending on the situation.

No respectable coach is going to work for Coyle and Kaler if they fire Tracy to cover their own butts. You'd be dumb to walk into that. You need support. No matter who the coach is...stuff happens. Without the support of a new administration we'll have a new coach every year...each one worse than the last.

And how about we wait until these guys have their hearing? We have no idea right now if these guys are guilty. Fire the coach and these guys are found innocent or the punishment is greatly reduced...then what? Are they staying? Highly doubt it.... depending on the timeline how bad does that look if you fired Tracy? You taking the job as a prospective coach? Not to mention the screwed handling of the whole thing...120 guys...nobody is going to have sex? How many that do will have their consent form signed? Just a mess to walk into as the new guy...you are now answering those sexual assault questions certainly for many months.

Firing Tracy makes things worse!
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Yes. Agree. Until the dust from the fallout of the current fiasco settles and the University can illustrate in some way they can support a serviceable Power 5 coach, it would likely be a step backwards to fire TC.
 


short ornery norwegian said:
As noted above, firing Claeys will appear to some as a CYA move by Coyle. The Coach-AD relationship is key in FB. An incoming coach may look at the situation and say, "Coyle did not handle this situation very well, threw his coach under the bus by falsely claiming Claeys approved the suspensions, and then (presumably) fired his coach to make Claeys appear like the scapegoat for the current mess. Is that an AD I can trust, and want to play for?"

I suspect that some - not all - coaching candidates would be leery about tying their future to Coyle.

And going back to Reusse's column - his premise was that IF Claeys is fired, the Gophers are likely to pursue a more rah-rah type (like Fleck) as Coach - under the theory that you always hire the opposite of the coach you're replacing. I don't know squat about Fleck. I don't have an opinion about him. I just don't trust Coyle to make the decision. I suspect Coyle will be more concerned about his image than what is best for the U of MN FB program.
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Yes. Thus far, track record suggests this 100%.
 

WorkingMyTailOff said:
I agree with your second paragraph for sure, but it's curious to me that Smith got kicked off the team and the original four who were suspended were not. If they had been would the EOAA investigation still have occurred? Why no EOAA investigation for Lynch?
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Do we know there was not an investigation in Lynch's situation? If there wasn't, looks pretty bad for Kaler.
 

PMWinSTP said:
Do we know there was not an investigation in Lynch's situation? If there wasn't, looks pretty bad for Kaler.
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I don't know, but who decides when an investigation should take place? Does alleged victim initiate with the EOAA?
 

60's Guy said:
Look...IF you feel the need to fire Tracy... it better be after classes start and players are enrolled or you won't have lot's of guys returning. Firing the assistants will increase the number leaving. Our recruiting class might be mediocre but we have one. Without a coach we won't have many/any guys coming depending on the situation.

No respectable coach is going to work for Coyle and Kaler if they fire Tracy to cover their own butts. You'd be dumb to walk into that. You need support. No matter who the coach is...stuff happens. Without the support of a new administration we'll have a new coach every year...each one worse than the last.

And how about we wait until these guys have their hearing? We have no idea right now if these guys are guilty. Fire the coach and these guys are found innocent or the punishment is greatly reduced...then what? Are they staying? Highly doubt it.... depending on the timeline how bad does that look if you fired Tracy? You taking the job as a prospective coach? Not to mention the screwed handling of the whole thing...120 guys...nobody is going to have sex? How many that do will have their consent form signed? Just a mess to walk into as the new guy...you are now answering those sexual assault questions certainly for many months.

Firing Tracy makes things worse!
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Damn voice of reason! How dare you be rational! ��
Everyone that thinks for a second we can get some time of big time coach given the circumstances is crazy. As you said you ditch Claeys and any coach is going to think you won't have his back from an administrative standpoint. Please PLEASE be rational administration...keep Claeys this year, let the roaring inferno calm down, let the recruits you have stay, keep many of the players you have and not have a mass exodus. Failure to do so will set the program back years. If next year you want to make the change then make it but to do so now would be foolish in my opinion given the circumstances.
 




NotAFanOfBecky said:
Damn voice of reason! How dare you be rational! ��
Everyone that thinks for a second we can get some time of big time coach given the circumstances is crazy. As you said you ditch Claeys and any coach is going to think you won't have his back from an administrative standpoint. Please PLEASE be rational administration...keep Claeys this year, let the roaring inferno calm down, let the recruits you have stay, keep many of the players you have and not have a mass exodus. Failure to do so will set the program back years. If next year you want to make the change then make it but to do so now would be foolish in my opinion given the circumstances.
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Yeah..in actuality I don't think many of the "fire TC" crowd think we can get a big time coach as many seem to qualify that notion. Fleck is not a big time coach.
 

WorkingMyTailOff said:
I agree with your second paragraph for sure, but it's curious to me that Smith got kicked off the team and the original four who were suspended were not. If they had been would the EOAA investigation still have occurred? Why no EOAA investigation for Lynch?
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There was an EOAA investigation for the Lynch situation. It would have been required by law. The results of most of their investigations do not end up being available to the public, but in the case of the Gopher FB players one of them released it and there isn't really anything the university can do to stop that
 

PMWinSTP said:
Pretty sure EOAA is bound and has a duty to do so if Title IX is in play.
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The investigation only proceeds if the accuser wants it to. The letter from the EOAA chair to Teague last year said as much; two alleged assaults were not investigated as the accusers backed off. I would guess that's what happened with the Lynch situation.

Going back to the first suspension of the original four if they had been kicked off the team/lost scholarships and left campus the EOAA has no duty or ability to investigate that scenario. It likely would have ended there before it escalated with the restraining order process/EOAA witch hunt. The EOAA can only go after current students and faculty.

I'm assuming Coyle was aware of the police findings as he is the direct liason to the police. Thus knowing what happened that night via the police report (gang bang scenario at best, rape at worst), he made the call to keep them. Seems like there is a "moral" way to handle things and a PR way of handling things. Moral in the sense the guys deserve due process, even if you're convinced they are guilty; but they were doomed from the outset. Coyle allowed them to proceed through the "process" at the U and it blew up into a PR disaster. If they had been let go for violation of team rules in September the team would likely have 6 players unscathed (as no EOAA process would have occurred) but the original 4 would have been tossed under the bus (to the cheers of the pitchfork mob). I suspect this ordeal will lead to a very short hook for players in the future, fair or not.

I'd get the hell out of dodge if I were a player or a coach until the climate improves. Not worth risking your livelihood over if you have viable options.
 



Ozzy&Ray said:
Why do people think he wouldn't come? It's a great situation actually. You have talent and a schedule to win, and people don't expect you to. You can negotiate a good contract - U athletics generates a lot more revenue than people seem to think around here, compared to rest of Big Ten. Also, you get to come in with the new facilities.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Yea, anyone who thinks PJ wouldn't come here is fooling themselves. Matt Campbell was the PJ Fleck of last year and he took the Iowa State job. I try to.be as realistic as possible when I compare us to other programs, and I would definitely classify the U of M job as more desirable than the Iowa St job. We could triple PJ's salary and he'd still only be in the mid-tier of B1G coaches in terms of salary. He would absolutely take this job if we offered a decent contract.

(I'd add that this is not an endorsement of PJ on my part. I'm not a fan of his whole rah rah schtick, but I could get on board if we hired him. If/when we move on from Claeys I'd prefer a coach who gives us instant credibility, can recruit at a big-time school, and sells tickets. Some may know who I am referring to.)
 

Pompous Elitist said:
The investigation only proceeds if the accuser wants it to. The letter from the EOAA chair to Teague last year said as much; two alleged assaults were not investigated as the accusers backed off. I would guess that's what happened with the Lynch situation.

Going back to the first suspension of the original four if they had been kicked off the team/lost scholarships and left campus the EOAA has no duty or ability to investigate that scenario. It likely would have ended there before it escalated with the restraining order process/EOAA witch hunt. The EOAA can only go after current students and faculty.

I'm assuming Coyle was aware of the police findings as he is the direct liason to the police. Thus knowing what happened that night via the police report (gang bang scenario at best, rape at worst), he made the call to keep them. Seems like there is a "moral" way to handle things and a PR way of handling things. Moral in the sense the guys deserve due process, even if you're convinced they are guilty; but they were doomed from the outset. Coyle allowed them to proceed through the "process" at the U and it blew up into a PR disaster. If they had been let go for violation of team rules in September the team would likely have 6 players unscathed (as no EOAA process would have occurred) but the original 4 would have been tossed under the bus (to the cheers of the pitchfork mob). I suspect this ordeal will lead to a very short hook for players in the future, fair or not.

I'd get the hell out of dodge if I were a player or a coach until the climate improves. Not worth risking your livelihood over if you have viable options.
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An investigation is required whether the accuser wants it to proceed or not. There is no requirement for the accuser to cooperate which obviously makes that investigation more difficult, but an investigation is required either way
 

bizzle22 said:
An investigation is required whether the accuser wants it to proceed or not. There is no requirement for the accuser to cooperate which obviously makes that investigation more difficult, but an investigation is required either way
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Not according to Kimberly Hewitt.
 

PMWinSTP said:
Yeah..in actuality I don't think many of the "fire TC" crowd think we can get a big time coach as many seem to qualify that notion. Fleck is not a big time coach.
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Fleck is on the short list of up and coming coaches that are going to see interest from power five teams. He's got his WMU team playing in a BCS bowl game and has assistant/coordinator experience under several very good coaches.

Much like with Pitino (minus the name recognition), Fleck is a relatively young guy. I think that has really helped Pitino here....and I'd bet that it would be a recruiting advantage for Fleck as well.

Regardless.....TC is the head coach until the admin says otherwise. If they do show him the door....I'd expect Fleck and Bohl to be a couple of the first contacts.
 

Pompous Elitist said:
Not according to Kimberly Hewitt.
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I just know that if any school official is aware of a complaint of any kind about sexual harassment/assault/etc then the school has to investigate. That is what the law says.
 


Pompous Elitist said:
The other sexual harassment concern and the two sexual assault concerns were not investigated because the reporting students did not want to move forward with an investigation, according to the email, which was released by the university after it was detailed in a report by the Minneapolis Star Tribune.

https://www.mprnews.org/story/2015/10/15/university-of-minnesota-sexual-harassment
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Guess I'm wrong according to her. The law says the school must investigate if any school officials are aware of any potential sexual assault/harassment. I would assume a police report and subsequent news headlines would qualify. Must be another clause in there. Don't understand that one much like I don't understand why whoever recorded the sexual act between the girl and the recruit (who was a minor) was not charged. (Not advocating that the person recording should be charged, but that one seems pretty easy to me. As far as I know it is illegal to record a sex act -- whether consensual or not -- that includes someone under 18 years of age.)
 

effing rapo scum. They destroyed women and the program.
 


xyz1 said:
With Reusse he may just be trolling Wisconsin fans, but the idea that the B10W is "eminently winnable" as long as Nebraska is down really doesn't do justice to what Wisconsin's done the last 25 years. Tom Osborne's been gone for a while, and right now UW is probably Nebraska's equal when it comes to national stature/resources/potential.
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Wisconsin is a regional team and a laughable one at that.
 


PMWinSTP said:
Wow, really? So he wrote this in a complete vacuum...
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Of course he's not writing in a vacuum, but here's the text from the article:

High and mighty though university President Eric Kaler will sound if he fires Claeys, it will be a business decision. In view of that, I’m convinced the Gophers will go for a high-energy salesman, and that would be P.J. Fleck, the 36-year-old coach of Western Michigan.

Everything after the "if" is Reusse's theorizing. I don't see outright advocacy for Fleck because it's all dependent on whether Kaler fires Claeys.
 

bizzle22 said:
There was an EOAA investigation for the Lynch situation. It would have been required by law. The results of most of their investigations do not end up being available to the public, <b>but in the case of the Gopher FB players one of them released it </b>and there isn't really anything the university can do to stop that
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You don't say. We had a whole other thread on "who leaked the report" and it seems you knew all along. Please do share with the rest of us how you know a FB player was the one that released it. I hope you have some facts and aren't basing that on the cover letter that everyone in the EOAA and everyone CC'd on the report (victim, U Admin), and many people around all of those mentioned also had access to. It has to be more than that, right?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

PMWinSTP said:
Yeah..in actuality I don't think many of the "fire TC" crowd think we can get a big time coach as many seem to qualify that notion. Fleck is not a big time coach.
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I agree with that, but does the program and University want to just settle on a coach to just make a change? I certainly understand the why, not sure we would like the who when it's all said and done, maybe I'm wrong since a coach should realize the cupboard is not empty here...there is some talent and with TCF and Athletes Village there are pretty good facilities.
 

bizzle22 said:
There was an EOAA investigation for the Lynch situation. It would have been required by law. The results of most of their investigations do not end up being available to the public, but in the case of the Gopher FB players one of them released it and there isn't really anything the university can do to stop that
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That is most likely untrue, unless you think that it benefited the players and not the committee. Which seems rather odd.
 

stocker08 said:
Fleck is on the short list of up and coming coaches that are going to see interest from power five teams. He's got his WMU team playing in a BCS bowl game and has assistant/coordinator experience under several very good coaches.

Much like with Pitino (minus the name recognition), Fleck is a relatively young guy. I think that has really helped Pitino here....and I'd bet that it would be a recruiting advantage for Fleck as well.

Regardless.....TC is the head coach until the admin says otherwise. If they do show him the door....I'd expect Fleck and Bohl to be a couple of the first contacts.
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It will cost $6.5 million this year to buy Bohl out of his contract. Again, he's NOT coming to the U of Minnesota.
 

Pompous Elitist said:
The other sexual harassment concern and the two sexual assault concerns were not investigated because the reporting students did not want to move forward with an investigation, according to the email, which was released by the university after it was detailed in a report by the Minneapolis Star Tribune.

https://www.mprnews.org/story/2015/10/15/university-of-minnesota-sexual-harassment
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From the US Dept of Education. Is the MPR article you reference the the sole basis for your statement?

http://www2.ed.gov/about/offices/list/ocr/docs/title-ix-rights-201104.pdf
 

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