Retire Randy Breuer's Jersey

Status
Not open for further replies.
Donate To GopherHole
tinyarch said:
The problem with calling him the "best" player is that Breu only touched the ball in the paint. He never dribbled the ball up the floor or played the point on a press. He was good for the role he played, but hardly the best player on the teams he played on. Both McHale and Tucker were superior to Breu. Even Breu's last year was established by the play of Davis. Without players to get Breu the rock in his 10 foot shooting range he'd never have had an impact other than misdirecting a few shots on defense. His mediocrity shows up in his NBA stats where he was the quintessential backup.
Click to expand...


Read the stats again.

On to your assertion that Breuer was only a role player because he didn't dribble the ball up the court is just plain weird. I guess Shaq was only a role player. Karl Malone was just a role player. I could go on, but you should see it by now.

To expect any Soph. to be better or as good as McHale was as a Sr. isn't at all fair.

He was light years better than Tommy Davis, that season, and it should be argued that the play of Breuer established Davis more so than the other way around.
 

tikited said:
Read the stats again.

On to your assertion that Breuer was only a role player because he didn't dribble the ball up the court is just plain weird. I guess Shaq was only a role player. Karl Malone was just a role player. I could go on, but you should see it by now.

To expect any Soph. to be better or as good as McHale was as a Sr. isn't at all fair.

He was light years better than Tommy Davis, that season, and it should be argued that the play of Breuer established Davis more so than the other way around.
Click to expand...

Please. It's obvious that on the 1987 Twins, Frank Viola and Bert Blyleven were not as important as Tim Laudner because they only threw the ball, and they didn't even catch it.
 

Unregistered User said:
Please. It's obvious that on the 1987 Twins, Frank Viola and Bert Blyleven were not as important as Tim Laudner because they only threw the ball, and they didn't even catch it.
Click to expand...

Just like Will Avery was more important than KG was.
 

SS you help make my point for me.

He never shot from further than 10 feet out. He did have very nice hands and a soft shot from that range, but anything outside of 10 feet (both on the offensive and defensive end) from the hoop was an area that the Breu provided no assistance to the team. Your stats prove the point. Every stat you provide are stats that are found in the 10 foot range of the hoop. I would grant that Breu was one of the five best centers in Gopher history, but he was never the "best" player on any of the teams he played on. (Not if you assess the game from a complete all-around skill level.) The Breu needed skilled people around him to get him the rock in his comfort zone. He never was able to create on his own, which is why the NBA was never a place where he could shine and it was why Tucker and McHale made their living.

SelectionSunday said:
Respectfully, please define one dimensional for me. In his senior year alone Breu averaged 20.4 ppg, 8.9 rpg, shot 58.6% from the field, made 76.9% of his FTs (how many big guys do that?), and had 87 blocked shots (3 ppg). For his Gopher career, he ranks #3 all-time in points (1,777), #10 in rebounds (730), and #2 in blocked shots (229).

I don't think that sounds one dimensional. Yes, Breu was never going to win any flashiest player awards, but those are some darn impressive numbers. It's unfair to say he was nothing more than a "nice center". And it's not like the Gophers stunk during his 4 years. They were 81-39 overall and 42-30 in the Big Ten.
Click to expand...
 

tinyarch said:
SS you help make my point for me.

He never shot from further than 10 feet out. ... but anything outside of 10 feet (both on the offensive and defensive end) from the hoop was an area that the Breu provided no assistance to the team. ... Every stat you provide are stats that are found in the 10 foot range of the hoop.
Click to expand...

(1) Were free throws shot 10 feet from the basket back then? I believe the correct measurement for a free throw is 15 feet to the backboard and 13 feet to the rim.

(2) And why in the world would Jim Dutcher/Gophers want Breu more than 10 feet away from the basket on defense? Isn't a shot blocker's primary objective to protect the rim? Did you want him flying out (figuratively speaking) at the ball-handler leaving no protection at the rim?
 


tinyarch said:
SS you help make my point for me.

He never shot from further than 10 feet out. He did have very nice hands and a soft shot from that range, but anything outside of 10 feet (both on the offensive and defensive end) from the hoop was an area that the Breu provided no assistance to the team. Your stats prove the point. Every stat you provide are stats that are found in the 10 foot range of the hoop. I would grant that Breu was one of the five best centers in Gopher history, but he was never the "best" player on any of the teams he played on. (Not if you assess the game from a complete all-around skill level.) The Breu needed skilled people around him to get him the rock in his comfort zone. He never was able to create on his own, which is why the NBA was never a place where he could shine and it was why Tucker and McHale made their living.
Click to expand...

Sorry Tiny, but this is crazy talk.

First the stats don't claim anything about 10 foot range. They were just plain old stats. You must not remember Breuer very well because there was grumbling now and then about Randy not staying inside enough.

Maybe five best of all time? Try 2nd best. McHale was a power forward just as much as he was a center.

I'll stop at this point.
 


SelectionSunday said:
Respectfully, please define one dimensional for me. In his senior year alone Breu averaged 20.4 ppg, 8.9 rpg, shot 58.6% from the field, made 76.9% of his FTs (how many big guys do that?), and had 87 blocked shots (3 ppg). For his Gopher career, he ranks #3 all-time in points (1,777), #10 in rebounds (730), and #2 in blocked shots (229).

One dimensional? Yes, Breu was never going to win any flashiest player awards. And yes he had some really good players around him, but on the flip side it had to be pretty nice for the TTs, Darryl Mitchells, Tommy Davis', and Marc Wilsons of the world to have a legitimate center like Breu. Those are darn impressive numbers, no matter how they're sliced. It's unfair to say he was nothing more than a "nice center". And it's not like the Gophers stunk during his 4 years. They were 81-39 overall and 42-30 in the Big Ten during a time when it was much, much more difficult to make the NCAA Tournament than it is now.
Click to expand...

+1
 

WanderingGopher said:
If Breuer has his degree, then there's no question his jersey should be retired and probably is long overdue.

If he doesn't, then the answer is easy. Finish your degree, like Tucker, Burton, and probably many others did after they finished playing. Breuer was here a full 4 years so he's got to be close. I'd have to think his jersey would be retired the instant he got his degree.

Invoking the "exceptional" clause and comparing to Bobby Bell doesn't help your cause. Bobby Bell was a two-time 1st team All America, Outland Trophy winner, NCAA champion, Super Bowl champion, and NFL hall of famer. Few Gophers would compare (maybe Dave Winfield, Bronko Nagurski).

If you argue to drop the requirement of a degree, then so be it, but that would also open the door to many others. Bobby Jackson would be the first that comes to mind IMO. Yes he played here only 2 seasons but was the best Gopher player of the last generation and led us to our only Final Four.
Click to expand...

I think there are other reasons Bobby Jackson hasn't had his jersey retired ...
 



KBreuer15 said:
Does the best player on a team that won the Big Ten Championship fall into that category for you? He is already in the Gophers Hall of Fame. If so, please send an email to Norwood and let him know!
Click to expand...

I am not knocking Breuer's accomplishments or his accolades. Will he be inducted into the college basketball hall of fame? I don't know that's for the voters to decide. Is he a "super special player"? In my opinion no and by the way I am a fan of Gopher basketball.

Moreover, the Gopher hockey program for example has one retired jersey in the rafters the honor belongs to John Mayasich. Why only one? Rumor has it there are too many great Gopher hockey players and if they include the likes of Pat Micheletti then other players will feel slighted. Think about that for minute. That is the difference between Gopher hockey and every other men's program on campus.

Here is the career point leaders in Gopher hockey history.

298 Mayasich, John Eveleth, MN
269 Micheletti, Patrick J. Hibbing, MN
241 Millen, Corey E. Cloquet, MN
238 Erickson, Bryan L. Roseau, MN
218 Olimb, Larry Warroad, MN
216 Bonin, Brian White Bear Lake, MN
202 Ulseth, Steven J. Roseville, MN
201 Harrer, Timothy S. Bloomington, MN
200 Pohl, John Redwing , MN
 

What does the Gopher hockey program have to do with a conversation about Randy Breuer? The Gopher puck program has retired only one jersey? Bully for them.
 

4four4 said:
I am not knocking Breuer's accomplishments or his accolades. Will he be inducted into the college basketball hall of fame? I don't know that's for the voters to decide. Is he a "super special player"? In my opinion no and by the way I am a fan of Gopher basketball.

Moreover, the Gopher hockey program for example has one retired jersey in the rafters the honor belongs to John Mayasich. Why only one? Rumor has it there are too many great Gopher hockey players and if they include the likes of Pat Micheletti then other players will feel slighted. Think about that for minute. That is the difference between Gopher hockey and every other men's program on campus.

Here is the career point leaders in Gopher hockey history.

298 Mayasich, John Eveleth, MN
269 Micheletti, Patrick J. Hibbing, MN
241 Millen, Corey E. Cloquet, MN
238 Erickson, Bryan L. Roseau, MN
218 Olimb, Larry Warroad, MN
216 Bonin, Brian White Bear Lake, MN
202 Ulseth, Steven J. Roseville, MN
201 Harrer, Timothy S. Bloomington, MN
200 Pohl, John Redwing , MN
Click to expand...

Imagine if Neil and Aaron Broten had played four years, they both have to be up there for the single season scoring record
 




Kareem Abdul-Jabbar was a one-dimensional clod. All he could do was make sky hooks. Yes, he is the all-time leading scorer in the NBA, but he was a LOSER outside of 10 feet!

tinyarch said:
SS you help make my point for me.

He never shot from further than 10 feet out. He did have very nice hands and a soft shot from that range, but anything outside of 10 feet (both on the offensive and defensive end) from the hoop was an area that the Breu provided no assistance to the team. Your stats prove the point. Every stat you provide are stats that are found in the 10 foot range of the hoop. I would grant that Breu was one of the five best centers in Gopher history, but he was never the "best" player on any of the teams he played on. (Not if you assess the game from a complete all-around skill level.) The Breu needed skilled people around him to get him the rock in his comfort zone. He never was able to create on his own, which is why the NBA was never a place where he could shine and it was why Tucker and McHale made their living.
Click to expand...
 

A few things:

I made this thread to bring awareness to an issue. I believe that his jersey should be retired. If you agree, I ask that you simply send an email to Norwood showing your support.

I am sorry the Gopher Hockey program has only retired 1 jersey. That is a completely seperate issue that you can bring up on the Hockey Forum.

Randy was not as sucessful in the NBA as he was at the U. I am not trying to get him into NBA Hall of Fame. He was drafted by the Bucks and was part of a good team that had the luck of playing against some of the best teams ever fielded in the NBA in the playoffs and going to Game 7 on more than one occasion. Calling him a career back-up is also just plain inaccurate.

I believe that statistics show he was the best player on the team especially in 82 and 83 (Voted Team MVP in 83). Also, read some interviews by TT. He knew the value of having him in the middle. Also, your argument about all that 10 foot from the basket stuff is invalid. People who have ever played basketball know the duties and responsiblities of a 7ft 3 in center.
 

SelectionSunday said:
What does the Gopher hockey program have to do with a conversation about Randy Breuer? The Gopher puck program has retired only one jersey? Bully for them.
Click to expand...

I was gonna say something similar to what you just said, SS, but I am 99 and 44/100 % sure that GH mods would have deleted it if I said it. Thanks for sharing my sentiments.
 

Ski U Mah Gopher said:
Another jersey that belongs in the rafters (on the opposite end of the building) is Janel McCarville.

She was a 2x All American, played in the most NCAA tourney games in U history. She still has the NCAA tournament rebounding record.
Click to expand...

Agreed! On Randy's case, how the heck do you go to school four years and not have a degree from the university you represented so well? I blame both parties, its sad.
 

KBreuer15 said:
A few things:

I made this thread to bring awareness to an issue. I believe that his jersey should be retired. If you agree, I ask that you simply send an email to Norwood showing your support.

I am sorry the Gopher Hockey program has only retired 1 jersey. That is a completely seperate issue that you can bring up on the Hockey Forum.

Randy was not as sucessful in the NBA as he was at the U. I am not trying to get him into NBA Hall of Fame. He was drafted by the Bucks and was part of a good team that had the luck of playing against some of the best teams ever fielded in the NBA in the playoffs and going to Game 7 on more than one occasion. Calling him a career back-up is also just plain inaccurate.

I believe that statistics show he was the best player on the team especially in 82 and 83 (Voted Team MVP in 83). Also, read some interviews by TT. He knew the value of having him in the middle. Also, your argument about all that 10 foot from the basket stuff is invalid. People who have ever played basketball know the duties and responsiblities of a 7ft 3 in center.
Click to expand...

Kevin, you are doing your dad proud!! He definitely deserves to have his jersey hanging but he needs to finish his degree. Huge fan of your father when he was playing; many great memories!
 

I love how people want to compare Breuer with Kareem and Shaq. If you want to compare them then you have to look at their NBA career. You do realize that the stats on their NBA careers make Breuer look like a wet noodle...don't you? Please share with us the number of NBA championship rings that the Breu was responsible for. Both Tucker and McHale can show Breu the rings on their fingers and then tell him that at least a couple GHers think he was the "best" Gopher on the teams that he played on.

What you folks are failing to grasp is that I'm not saying that Breu was a bad basketball player. I'm saying that Breu was not the best player on the team that won the B1G and that he was never the "best" player on any of the teams that he played on. He had a skill set that fit with Dutcher's system (could you imagine Breu actually playing on a team that played man-to-man defense rather than a 2-3 defense?) and he fulfilled his role, but he wasn't the "best" overall player on any of the teams he played on. (at least not after he left Lake City)

Facts34 said:
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar was a one-dimensional clod. All he could do was make sky hooks. Yes, he is the all-time leading scorer in the NBA, but he was a LOSER outside of 10 feet!
Click to expand...
 

tinyarch said:
I love how people want to compare Breuer with Kareem and Shaq. If you want to compare them then you have to look at their NBA career. You do realize that the stats on their NBA careers make Breuer look like a wet noodle...don't you? Please share with us the number of NBA championship rings that the Breu was responsible for. Both Tucker and McHale can show Breu the rings on their fingers and then tell him that at least a couple GHers think he was the "best" Gopher on the teams that he played on.

What you folks are failing to grasp is that I'm not saying that Breu was a bad basketball player. I'm saying that Breu was not the best player on the team that won the B1G and that he was never the "best" player on any of the teams that he played on. He had a skill set that fit with Dutcher's system (could you imagine Breu actually playing on a team that played man-to-man defense rather than a 2-3 defense?) and he fulfilled his role, but he wasn't the "best" overall player on any of the teams he played on. (at least not after he left Lake City)
Click to expand...

You're failing to grasp I was at every game he played at Williams Arena.

Go away!!
 

Who cares if you were at every game. He still wasn't the "best" on the team.

You're free to have your opinion. Now go back to your Gestapo headquarters.

howieramone said:
You're failing to grasp I was at every game he played at Williams Arena.

Go away!!
Click to expand...
 

Does anyone know why Breuer didn't graduate in the first place? He was there four years, correct?
 

tinyarch said:
I love how people want to compare Breuer with Kareem and Shaq. If you want to compare them then you have to look at their NBA career. You do realize that the stats on their NBA careers make Breuer look like a wet noodle...don't you? Please share with us the number of NBA championship rings that the Breu was responsible for. Both Tucker and McHale can show Breu the rings on their fingers and then tell him that at least a couple GHers think he was the "best" Gopher on the teams that he played on.

What you folks are failing to grasp is that I'm not saying that Breu was a bad basketball player. I'm saying that Breu was not the best player on the team that won the B1G and that he was never the "best" player on any of the teams that he played on. He had a skill set that fit with Dutcher's system (could you imagine Breu actually playing on a team that played man-to-man defense rather than a 2-3 defense?) and he fulfilled his role, but he wasn't the "best" overall player on any of the teams he played on. (at least not after he left Lake City)
Click to expand...

What the flying *&^!#*&^!#*&^!#*&^!# does NBA stats have to do with his Gopher career? You're just burying yourself deeper with this.

The rule of the hole is: when you're in one, stop digging.

STFU
 

Unregistered User said:
What the flying *&^!#*&^!#*&^!#*&^!# does NBA stats have to do with his Gopher career? You're just burying yourself deeper with this.

The rule of the hole is: when you're in one, stop digging.

STFU
Click to expand...

Thank you User. I thought I was the only one about ready to go visit tinycrotch and not leave until he was totally bound and gagged.
 

Yikes. The point is that Kareem was similarly "one-dimensional", as you put it (worthless outside of 10 feet).

Tough night, tinyarch.

tinyarch said:
I love how people want to compare Breuer with Kareem and Shaq. If you want to compare them then you have to look at their NBA career. You do realize that the stats on their NBA careers make Breuer look like a wet noodle...don't you? Please share with us the number of NBA championship rings that the Breu was responsible for. Both Tucker and McHale can show Breu the rings on their fingers and then tell him that at least a couple GHers think he was the "best" Gopher on the teams that he played on.

What you folks are failing to grasp is that I'm not saying that Breu was a bad basketball player. I'm saying that Breu was not the best player on the team that won the B1G and that he was never the "best" player on any of the teams that he played on. He had a skill set that fit with Dutcher's system (could you imagine Breu actually playing on a team that played man-to-man defense rather than a 2-3 defense?) and he fulfilled his role, but he wasn't the "best" overall player on any of the teams he played on. (at least not after he left Lake City)
Click to expand...
 

KBreuer15 said:
Does the best player on a team that won the Big Ten Championship fall into that category for you?
Click to expand...

Honestly, no. To me, retirement of a jersey should be done for a player who has contributed to the program in such a way that it would be very, very hard to reproduce. I don't think being the best player on a Big Ten championship team is in any way representative of that. To win the conference is a fantastic feat, but it's one that we should strive to accomplish every year.

Would you make a case for Dre's number to be retired if we won the Big Ten this year?
 

Read the thread before you speak. And...stop drinking...you're a angry drunk.

Unregistered User said:
What the flying *&^!#*&^!#*&^!#*&^!# does NBA stats have to do with his Gopher career? You're just burying yourself deeper with this.

The rule of the hole is: when you're in one, stop digging.

STFU
Click to expand...
 

The leader of the GH Gestapo has spoken. Thanks Herr Dr.
From Herr Dr head of the GH SS - I thought I was the only one about ready to go visit tiny and not leave until he was totally bound and gagged.
Click to expand...
 


tinyarch said:
I love how people want to compare Breuer with Kareem and Shaq. If you want to compare them then you have to look at their NBA career. You do realize that the stats on their NBA careers make Breuer look like a wet noodle...don't you? Please share with us the number of NBA championship rings that the Breu was responsible for. Both Tucker and McHale can show Breu the rings on their fingers and then tell him that at least a couple GHers think he was the "best" Gopher on the teams that he played on.

What you folks are failing to grasp is that I'm not saying that Breu was a bad basketball player. I'm saying that Breu was not the best player on the team that won the B1G and that he was never the "best" player on any of the teams that he played on. He had a skill set that fit with Dutcher's system (could you imagine Breu actually playing on a team that played man-to-man defense rather than a 2-3 defense?) and he fulfilled his role, but he wasn't the "best" overall player on any of the teams he played on. (at least not after he left Lake City)
Click to expand...

Lets be real TT won his ring Bernie Kosar style
 

Status
Not open for further replies.



Top Bottom