Recruits

[GVBadger]

People could probably stand to calm down on both sides. By allowing GV to get you riled up, you are essentially feeding into exactly the type of emotion he is trying to elicit (which is unfortunate, I took him for a serious poster for a while).

In any event, the question is a valid one worth discussing, which I think grunkie did a nice job laying out. The biggest question is if this increase in interest and athleticism is going to lead to an increase in wins. Nobody can verify that because it hasn't happened yet, but I think it's fair to say that it should happen within the next 2 years or all of the excitement and enthusiasm in the world isn't going to save Brewster's job.

I thought he did a good job of laying it out also. I thought I was raising legitimate issues, but reasonable people can disagree on that. I don't think it is as easy of a decision as many on here believe it will be for Maturi to extend Brewster, but I certainly don't talk to him. Maturi may think it is a no brainer. That is why it is called a discussion.

Bringing in better athletes does not guarantee success. That is all I am saying. Let's say for arguments sake, you are now recruiting at the level of MSU, UW, and Iowa. Let's say even, slightly better then those three. Does it guarantee success on the field? How is Brewster going to do against those threee going forward? How has he done so far?

That does not take into account Michigan, OSU and Penn State, who by most accounts, recruit the best athletes in the conference. You still have to beat them to win the conference. Because you can't "out recruit" them, what are you going to do, give up? You have to coach better then they do, develop talent better then they do and on game day, get your guys to out play them. Can Brewster do all of that on a consistent level with "inferior" talent, according to the guru's?

That is the question that has to be answered. I don't think anyone knows the answer to that, even Maturi. The early returns leave a lot of doubt.

 

[GopherGod]

Not true. I would use the Rivals ratings regardless of who had us rated higher because I'm a Rivals subscriber and not a Scout subscriber.



Nobody really knows the benchmark that was expected. You either know a lot more than us abour our program or you are full of sh*t. I'm going to go with the latter.

What is clear is that according to the recruiting services we are recruiting at a higher level than we were under Mason. If someone doesn't believe in recruiting services we can use BCS offers for recruits as a benchmark and the recruits in Minnesota's 2008 and 2009 classes had far more BCS offers than previous classes. I believe the metric for our 2008 class was 102 offers from BCS schools other than Minnesota compared to somewhere around 25 in the prior class.



First of all an extension isn't inherently a $5mm commitment. Bielema got a 1 year "vote of confidence" from Alvarez this past offseason--was that $5mm? Not even close.

I don't think it is as difficult as you make it out to be.

How are the academics of the program progressing?--The APR hit gives a false read on academics--we lost schollies primarily because our APR under Mason was lower than it should have been and changing coaches and dismissing a few players caused it to go under. In 2008-09 Minnesota actually set a team record for players with a 3.0 or higher GPA and led the Big Ten. Despite the perception in the papers that Brewster is recruiting low achieving students, as a whole the football program has improved its academics.

How is the performance of the team and how does it compare to the past?--2006: 6-7 loss in the Insight Bowl...2008: 7-6 loss in the Insight Bowl. I'll call that a push. 2009 has yet to play out but if you believe ESPN's midseason prediction 6-6 to 7-6 seems the most likely. There was a step back in 2007 but Maturi has even said he knew that would happen (we would have won more than 1 game but even with Mason we weren't going to a bowl in 2007 but that is another conversation).

Has the talent level of the team improved?I think this is a resounding yes. Recruiting services are one measurement but I won't focus on that. Where you can readily see the difference in athleticism in this team vs. previous teams is on the special teams (where most freshman and sophomores make their impact). We currently lead the Big Ten in punt return avg, are at or near the top in kick return avg and have played very well on coverage teams. Also, if you listen to opposing coaches they see the difference. The OC for Purdue (formerly at FAU who played us in 2007 & 2008) commented prior to our matchup that game planning for Minnesota is completely different now because the defense is so much faster than a couple years ago.

Has interest in the program increased?--Obviously one sign would be the sold out stadium but that likely would have sold out either way. Anecdotally the Minnesota Rivals site was the 2nd fastest growing site in the Rivals system. That is a pretty strong indication that interest in the program has increased. I'm sure the athletic dept has other ways to monitor this (road game tix, participation in non-gameday events, donations, etc).





We look at the recruiting with such interest because it is new to us and freshman and sophomores (the best athletes in the program) don't usually make an impact in college football. About half of our 2009 class appears to be in line to be redshirted so we haven't even seen them on the field yet. It is hard to judge the full impact improved recruiting will have on our program.

I'm fine with the comparison to Illinois from the standpoint of having a coach that can recruit at a higher level than the program's past history. However, the comparison really should end there. The last time I checked Illinois was 5-7 in 2008 (we were 7-6) and this year they have 1 win on the season (0 against DI-A programs) while Minnesota is 4-3. The Minnesota coaching staff's abilities should be judged on their coaching rather than a comparison to another program that has stumbled badly because of poor execution. Pat Fitzgerald was hired at Northwestern with a background (recruiting coordinator with no OC/DC experience) that is more similar to Brewster than Zook's background (HC at Florida, former DC) but nobody mentions that comparison. By comparing Brewster to Zook your bias shows quite clearly.

Btw--the last time I checked Zook has gone to more Rose Bowls than Bielema has in Wisconsin. Is that jealousy creeping in to your posting?

I don't know if the Pat Fitzgerald/Tim Brewster comparison is the best one because:

1. Brewster was hired from the outside to come in a take us to the next level and there was a ton of hoopla that he generated by talking a big game. Fitzgerald was hired initally to provide stability to the program and keep it together because the head coach (Randy Walker) whose staff he was on had just died suddenly. He was a familiar face to that program/insider who did a good job of keeping the team together and as such was rewarded for it. However, barring the tragic consequences of Randy Walker dying I think it is safe to say that he would not have been hired as the head coach atleast at this point in his career.

 

[Gopherprof]

That does not take into account Michigan, OSU and Penn State, who by most accounts, recruit the best athletes in the conference. You still have to beat them to win the conference. Because you can't "out recruit" them, what are you going to do, give up? You have to coach better then they do, develop talent better then they do and on game day, get your guys to out play them. Can Brewster do all of that on a consistent level with "inferior" talent, according to the guru's?

That is the question that has to be answered.

No, it's not. That's my point. You honestly think that Brewster's job depends on his ability to make Minnesota a better program than Ohio State? Only the completely delusional among Minnesota fans believe that.

I mean, Wisconsin has yet to acheive anything better than 3rd in the conference, and Bielema took over a program in much better shape than Minnesota, so one can only assume that his job security is in much worse shape than Brewster's.

 

[GVBadger]

No, it's not. That's my point. You honestly think that Brewster's job depends on his ability to make Minnesota a better program than Ohio State? Only the completely delusional among Minnesota fans believe that.

I mean, Wisconsin has yet to acheive anything better than 3rd in the conference, and Bielema took over a program in much better shape than Minnesota, so one can only assume that his job security is in much worse shape than Brewster's.

That is not what I said. As you know.

I said in order to win the conference, which is the goal of every team, as far as I know, and certainly a stated goal by Brewster, you have to beat teams that are "outrecruiting" you. You can't lose three games and win the conference.

The Badgers came in tied for second in the Big Ten in 2006.

 

[Gopherprof]

That is not what I said. As you know.

I said in order to win the conference, which is the goal of every team, as far as I know, and certainly a stated goal by Brewster, you have to beat teams that are "outrecruiting" you. You can't lose three games and win the conference.

Which is exactly the same thing as saying he needs to beat OSU, PSU, and Michigan to keep his job. He doesn't. He needs to beat Iowa and Wisconsin, and he can do that with the talent that is coming in.

 

[Donovan]

People could probably stand to calm down on both sides. By allowing GV to get you riled up, you are essentially feeding into exactly the type of emotion he is trying to elicit (which is unfortunate, I took him for a serious poster for a while).

Amen. Anyone who trolls on other teams boards posting messages purposely to piss off people needs help.

I don't mind when other teams fans come on here and post honest topics and questsions. GV does no such thing. His posts are solely to annoy Gopher fans.

 

[Slim Tubby]

I guess I would have to respectfully disagree here. While I think GVbadger is proud of his program and not afraid to say so, that doesn't make him a "troll". Sure enough his posts are Badger-biased, but thatis his team. He/she will not always post positive things about the Gopher program but I don't come here to read the same "homer" drivel all the time. Heck....one of the best posters on the B-ball board is UWole and I make a point to read every one of his/her posts. Be respectful and I have time for you...JMHO.

 

[Donovan]

I guess I would have to respectfully disagree here. While I think GVbadger is proud of his program and not afraid to say so, that doesn't make him a "troll". Sure enough his posts are Badger-biased, but thatis his team. He/she will not always post positive things about the Gopher program but I don't come here to read the same "homer" drivel all the time. Heck....one of the best posters on the B-ball board is UWole and I make a point to read every one of his/her posts. Be respectful and I have time for you...JMHO.

Okay, maybe I was a bit harsh. I have not read any posts from him that I found interesting, but maybe I missed those.

 

[Gophers507]

Anyone who says Brew hasn't put the Gophers on the map in terms of recruiting and national exposure is a lunatic. Remember, we are in Minnesota.
The state that has all major sports, one of the highest education levels in the USA, A major hub for banking, Medical Services, Med Technologies, 3M and so on. There is SOOOOOOOOO much else to do here other than college football, unlike a Nebraska or Wisconsin or Iowa. The majority of people in this state can be satisfied with reading the sports page on Sunday to keep their track on the Gopher Football team and are involved with many other activities that take up their time.
Since Brew and the stadium have gotten here, the Exposure and interest in Gopher football has increased ten fold. While it can be attributed to mostly a new stadium, Brew and co have put their heart and souls on the line in trying to expand gopher nation and all of the great things MN has to offer. While selling recruits this is a huge plus with a great education and job connections for the future, but with the fanbase it is a negative. Now, with all this being said and me rambling, the next step Brew and Co have to take to keep the newly interest gopher nation going and to keep expanding the interest, the on field success will have to come in TIME, not now. To expect Brew and Co to take a non-college football state and turn around a program from B10 mid-bottom dweller to a consistent top b10 team in just a 3 year window is just unreasonable.
He knows how college football works and is trying to turn not just the team, but the whole program and state, to become a passionate fan base. The fair weather fans will only stick with a successful on the field product. And In my opinion, they have done wayyyyyyy more good then bad in making this happen. And to bail on him now would be immature based on the scenario he came into.
Time will tell as he evolves as a on-field coach, but off the field he is doing more than I hoped for, and has achieved more than I though possible.
Go Gophs, sorry for the rambling.

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