Reality

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howeda7 said:
I said 8 wins was the bar he had to jump over. I didn't say he would. The current roster would win 3-4 B1G games and Charlie Pride and co won't increase it by more than 1-2.
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That's your opinion and as usual- a negative one. Negativity is the easiest attitude there is because it is so easy for things to go wrong.

None of us know how this roster will perform (queue up Spaulding here). Mitchell, Christie and Betts are all totally new additions. Fox and Ihnen are wild cards. The key will be the improvement of Payne, Garcia, JOJ, Carrington. If we get Pride and or Brown I'd say we have a pretty nice roster that has upside if they play defense well and gel together offensively. The difference between a 6 win and a 9 or 10 win team might just be winning close games. There is a whole lot to be learned yet. I am excited for the coming season and hope we get the right couple of guards to make it work. Pride would be one of them is my guess.
 

GopherPlaya said:
What programs, that are comparable to ours, are the ones benefitting from NIL? Specifically what surprises are you seeing to call our leadership a failure compared to others?
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It would be interesting to read a story about Big 10 basketball NIL benefits. Michigan State has an organized program where they all get paid. Edey at Purdue is one of the highest paid people in NIL. But, I don't know if that's all him? Ohio State and Indiana have some sort of setup, I thought I read?
I have no idea if the Dinkytown group will impact basketball. It seems more setup for all sports?
I think the Dunkers will eventually put together a package.
Miami, Alabama, New Mexico, West Virginia, Arkansas are five schools off the top that have money to offer in attracting portal players. LSU girls are deep into NIL money. I'm sure there are others but those i have read about.
Garcia now has an agent...I think a lot of the higher paid players do the work themselves.
Minnesota is probably with the majority in the NIL race...but we hired a guy to focus on it, we got a collective partnership or are there two? We have the Dunkers working on it. So, we could see some progress.
I'd sure think somebody could duplicate the Michigan State deal where the team gets paid. It is 13 people in a high profile sport. That'd be a start.
Somebody do the research or point me to some links, please. Thanks
 

60's Guy said:
It would be interesting to read a story about Big 10 basketball NIL benefits. Michigan State has an organized program where they all get paid. Edey at Purdue is one of the highest paid people in NIL. But, I don't know if that's all him? Ohio State and Indiana have some sort of setup, I thought I read?
I have no idea if the Dinkytown group will impact basketball. It seems more setup for all sports?
I think the Dunkers will eventually put together a package.
Miami, Alabama, New Mexico, West Virginia, Arkansas are five schools off the top that have money to offer in attracting portal players. LSU girls are deep into NIL money. I'm sure there are others but those i have read about.
Garcia now has an agent...I think a lot of the higher paid players do the work themselves.
Minnesota is probably with the majority in the NIL race...but we hired a guy to focus on it, we got a collective partnership or are there two? We have the Dunkers working on it. So, we could see some progress.
I'd sure think somebody could duplicate the Michigan State deal where the team gets paid. It is 13 people in a high profile sport. That'd be a start.
Somebody do the research or point me to some links, please. Thanks
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We use the MSU model I believe- but probably the pay per player is less.
 

bga1 said:
You aren't wrong. I will say this- when Payne improved late season and learned to post up early and pass out of the post, we started competing a lot better and our guard play was still substandard. I think he will add a little range to his game as well as becoming a rebounding beast.

I consider Battle to be almost no loss considering how poor he performed on both ends this past year. He is a sizable loss if you consider the Battle of two years ago. Battle was not a good player last year- the least efficient guy we had, an offensive flow killer and a minus defender.
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Bad was wrong. Bad wrong. You almost nailed it
bga1 said:
That's your opinion and as usual- a negative one. Negativity is the easiest attitude there is because it is so easy for things to go wrong.

None of us know how this roster will perform (queue up Spaulding here). Mitchell, Christie and Betts are all totally new additions. Fox and Ihnen are wild cards. The key will be the improvement of Payne, Garcia, JOJ, Carrington. If we get Pride and or Brown I'd say we have a pretty nice roster that has upside if they play defense well and gel together offensively. The difference between a 6 win and a 9 or 10 win team might just be winning close games. There is a whole lot to be learned yet. I am excited for the coming season and hope we get the right couple of guards to make it work. Pride would be one of them is my guess.
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Nailed it again beej. Don’t know why so few see it. Some even want to bet against the Gophers. They are not fans, just negative onlookers. One good ball handling guard from the portal that plays tough defense sets us up for 10 wins if the chemistry comes together. I want to see more on court leadership. Wanted 2 more portal guards but one will do.
 


60's Guy said:
It would be interesting to read a story about Big 10 basketball NIL benefits. Michigan State has an organized program where they all get paid. Edey at Purdue is one of the highest paid people in NIL. But, I don't know if that's all him? Ohio State and Indiana have some sort of setup, I thought I read?
I have no idea if the Dinkytown group will impact basketball. It seems more setup for all sports?
I think the Dunkers will eventually put together a package.
Miami, Alabama, New Mexico, West Virginia, Arkansas are five schools off the top that have money to offer in attracting portal players. LSU girls are deep into NIL money. I'm sure there are others but those i have read about.
Garcia now has an agent...I think a lot of the higher paid players do the work themselves.
Minnesota is probably with the majority in the NIL race...but we hired a guy to focus on it, we got a collective partnership or are there two? We have the Dunkers working on it. So, we could see some progress.
I'd sure think somebody could duplicate the Michigan State deal where the team gets paid. It is 13 people in a high profile sport. That'd be a start.
Somebody do the research or point me to some links, please. Thanks
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Some schools are doing a collective combined with individual players receiving deals. I think the number people are hearing is not near accurate. The non-big ten schools you named have always given out NIL deals. I guess that's what I mean when I say I don't see the schools comparable to us benefitting from it. Texas Tech gave Kerwin Walton a 6 figure deal, and he didn't even play. I would bet they will be much more selective in how they dish out their cash, but I don't see them as comparable to ours.
 

mngolf said:
So you don't know how to have a normal discussion. I asked for you to be specific, you didn't. I was specific in how people can help and why there are not enough donations. Nothing here for me to state, lots for you to answer which you didn't.
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U leadership should have been on this long ago. I totally disagree there is nothing they could do way back when. Specifically, take the Bull by the horns and LEAD for once.
Asking fans to compensate players isn't going to work long term, and I disagree with nil period.
 

bga1 said:
That's your opinion and as usual- a negative one. Negativity is the easiest attitude there is because it is so easy for things to go wrong.

None of us know how this roster will perform (queue up Spaulding here). Mitchell, Christie and Betts are all totally new additions. Fox and Ihnen are wild cards. The key will be the improvement of Payne, Garcia, JOJ, Carrington. If we get Pride and or Brown I'd say we have a pretty nice roster that has upside if they play defense well and gel together offensively. The difference between a 6 win and a 9 or 10 win team might just be winning close games. There is a whole lot to be learned yet. I am excited for the coming season and hope we get the right couple of guards to make it work. Pride would be one of them is my guess.
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A 2004 to 2005 type turnaround can happen. I never said otherwise. Not sure who the Vincent Grier is of that group though. Maybe Christie. But more likely it would have to be someone from the portal and so far we haven't landed that guy.
 

bga1 said:
That's your opinion and as usual- a negative one. Negativity is the easiest attitude there is because it is so easy for things to go wrong.

None of us know how this roster will perform (queue up Spaulding here). Mitchell, Christie and Betts are all totally new additions. Fox and Ihnen are wild cards. The key will be the improvement of Payne, Garcia, JOJ, Carrington. If we get Pride and or Brown I'd say we have a pretty nice roster that has upside if they play defense well and gel together offensively. The difference between a 6 win and a 9 or 10 win team might just be winning close games. There is a whole lot to be learned yet. I am excited for the coming season and hope we get the right couple of guards to make it work. Pride would be one of them is my guess.
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This thread is titled reality, but for some reason you are mad at those who accept it. Using the past 2 seasons as a predictor of how they will compete this year is perfectly reasonable. There are unknowns that are in play, but what has Ben done to earn the benefit that he can be successful with those unknowns? You are right, it is way more challenging to come up with scenarios that are actually positive for this team because of our recent struggles. Is that the posters fault for pointing it out or the coaching staff for failing miserably thus far? I guess we'd like to see a similar non-con run from his 1st year and then sustained success into the conference season. If he has enough quality depth this year, maybe he could do it. Very surprised to see that you are criticizing those who are being objective with the current state of the program. If it were better, there would be less negativity. This program stinks right now and this is not an opinion.
 
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bga1 said:
That's your opinion and as usual- a negative one. Negativity is the easiest attitude there is because it is so easy for things to go wrong.

None of us know how this roster will perform (queue up Spaulding here). Mitchell, Christie and Betts are all totally new additions. Fox and Ihnen are wild cards. The key will be the improvement of Payne, Garcia, JOJ, Carrington. If we get Pride and or Brown I'd say we have a pretty nice roster that has upside if they play defense well and gel together offensively. The difference between a 6 win and a 9 or 10 win team might just be winning close games. There is a whole lot to be learned yet. I am excited for the coming season and hope we get the right couple of guards to make it work. Pride would be one of them is my guess.
Click to expand...
IMO the key will be how good our new guards are going to be.

If Mitchell and the new/returning guards can be as good as our guards were in 2021, we could be a pretty fun team to watch. Payne is SO much better than anything we had at the 5 that year and Garcia is the best player Ben Johnson has coached here.

If our guards can be as good as 2021, with minimal improvement by the supporting cast (non-Garcia/Payne), I think it'll be a 5-6 win Big 10 team. If there is improvement from the supporting cast + production from guys coming off an injury, it could be interesting.

Either way, I expect it to be a much more entertaining season.
 

Hey, I hope that Dinkytown Athletes is able to generate some NIL support for Gopher athletes.

But if the U of MN wants to get into the NIL battle for higher-end players, some- maybe a lot - of that $$ is going to have to come from big corporate sponsors or fat-cat donors. is there anyone connected with the Gopher basketball program who knows how to shake that money tree? so far, the answer is no.

on recruiting: with all due respect, saying "just get the right coach" is too simple and too easy. that's like saying I could buy a new house if I won the Publishers' Clearinghouse Sweepstakes.

Yes, I will readily stipulate that a different coach might be capable of producing better results in recruiting. But no matter how good the salesperson is, you still have to have something to sell.
and what does the Gopher program have to sell? We went to the Final 4 26 years ago. none of the players they're recruiting now were alive then.
 

60's Guy said:
The right coach could parlay NIL relationships, internships, introductions to management with those Fortune 500 companies to players and explain to mom and dad their athlete is set for life as a Gopher. He/she would have a career following the pro sports career that may or may not happen due to life's unknowns. The introduction of opportunities that are not available in Iowa City or Madison etc but you gotta cultivate the relationships, paint the picture, make the introductions, walk the walk to convince parents and recruits it is real. Can't just leave it up to the prospects....set the meetings up, attend the meetings with the families. This is an opportunity for life unlike anywhere else you can go to school.
"83% of players like yourself from other states who choose to become Gophers...they choose to live here in the Twin Cities and a raise a family after graduation. People like it here. We can set you up to live a prosperous life." (whatever the number is a lot of Gophers, Vikings etc choose to live here after their sports are done....point it out...set em up for life)
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This is Sid era thinking. It doesn't work anything like this anymore. Back in the day, corporate leaders were often local people - the heirs to the founders of the companies, part of the community. Now they're generic CEO's whose job, and only job, is to deliver profits to shareholders.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
Hey, I hope that Dinkytown Athletes is able to generate some NIL support for Gopher athletes.

But if the U of MN wants to get into the NIL battle for higher-end players, some- maybe a lot - of that $$ is going to have to come from big corporate sponsors or fat-cat donors. is there anyone connected with the Gopher basketball program who knows how to shake that money tree? so far, the answer is no.

on recruiting: with all due respect, saying "just get the right coach" is too simple and too easy. that's like saying I could buy a new house if I won the Publishers' Clearinghouse Sweepstakes.

Yes, I will readily stipulate that a different coach might be capable of producing better results in recruiting. But no matter how good the salesperson is, you still have to have something to sell.
and what does the Gopher program have to sell? We went to the Final 4 26 years ago. none of the players they're recruiting now were alive then.
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Not picking at but that was not a Final Four team from Minnesota that year. We were crooked a hell and got caught. Look deeper for your Final Four Gophers.
 



Rockraven said:
Not picking at but that was not a Final Four team from Minnesota that year. We were crooked a hell and got caught. Look deeper for your Final Four Gophers.
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Major college sports is a dirty business. If you want to win, you better get down in the mud. Anyone who thinks otherwise is naive.

I've said it many times - if this were Iowa City, Madison or Lincoln, the Ganglehoff story would NEVER have seen the light of day, and it shouldn't have.
 

disco said:
Major college sports is a dirty business. If you want to win, you better get down in the mud. Anyone who thinks otherwise is naive.

I've said it many times - if this were Iowa City, Madison or Lincoln, the Ganglehoff story would NEVER have seen the light of day, and it shouldn't have.
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Well....you are right that the Ganglehoff story would never have come to light in most Big Ten towns- that's for sure. Really, what she was doing with the players was pretty minor and happens everywhere. Obviously any money the kids got was minor league. Really the worst transgression in my view was they messed around with Bobby Jackson's transcript. The whole thing was tiddlywinks by comparison to today and probably by comparison to what most major programs were doing and of course are doing.
 

bga1 said:
Well....you are right that the Ganglehoff story would never have come to light in most Big Ten towns- that's for sure. Really, what she was doing with the players was pretty minor and happens everywhere. Obviously any money the kids got was minor league. Really the worst transgression in my view was they messed around with Bobby Jackson's transcript. The whole thing was tiddlywinks by comparison to today and probably by comparison to what most major programs were doing and of course are doing.
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Still not a Final Four team.
 








Bob_Loblaw said:
IMO the key will be how good our new guards are going to be.

If Mitchell and the new/returning guards can be as good as our guards were in 2021, we could be a pretty fun team to watch. Payne is SO much better than anything we had at the 5 that year and Garcia is the best player Ben Johnson has coached here.

If our guards can be as good as 2021, with minimal improvement by the supporting cast (non-Garcia/Payne), I think it'll be a 5-6 win Big 10 team. If there is improvement from the supporting cast + production from guys coming off an injury, it could be interesting.

Either way, I expect it to be a much more entertaining season.
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Agree!
 


Bad Gopher said:
He's already a top-notch post player. The improvement that needs to happen is his ability to hit short jumpers and free throws. That would constitute star power. I'm hoping...but it's up to him and his coaches, not me.
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Yes. He’s is a good player but IMO a LONG way from a star
 


disco said:
This is Sid era thinking. It doesn't work anything like this anymore. Back in the day, corporate leaders were often local people - the heirs to the founders of the companies, part of the community. Now they're generic CEO's whose job, and only job, is to deliver profits to shareholders.
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Come on, there is truth in what you say that times have changed but the Twin Cities has a lot of "big business". There are 16 Fortune 500 companies. 16 Minnesota. And additionally a whole bunch of local guys with big enterprises.
There are more than a dozen private companies in Minnesota with more than a billion dollars in revenue. Cargill, Carlson Companies, Holiday, Andersen Windows, MA Mortenson and on and on.
You got at least half a dozen guys in each of the companies to establish a relationship with who has the authority to make a deal for internships or otherwise mentor an interested athlete that turns into a high paying career for the student. But, you need to find the company guy and the coach who disagrees with you that it's no longer possible and just does it.
1000% possible and 1000% workable but it would take effort.
These robot executives you talk about still go to work and live here. They play golf, they go to games, they attend events, they are in the community...they are accessible. There are guys willing to mentor interested students and the head coach and help the Gophers. Might require the coach to stop by the sales meeting or something. 100% sure it is a valid path to success. Also, pretty sure they are not going to call up and say they are available. Going to take effort and time to build that program but it would be effective.

Just like you say it won't work...it wouldn't appeal to every recruit but the ones it did I do believe would be team leaders. Also, probably not how you do it if you plan to only be the coach for a couple seasons here.
NIL is a $million times quicker for sure. PJ talks about mentoring his guys for life...guessing he is doing some version of this already for certain guys.
 


GopherBlood666 said:
This thread is titled reality, but for some reason you are mad at those who accept it. Using the past 2 seasons as a predictor of how they will compete this year is perfectly reasonable. There are unknowns that are in play, but what has Ben done to earn the benefit that he can be successful with those unknowns? You are right, it is way more challenging to come up with scenarios that are actually positive for this team because of our recent struggles. Is that the posters fault for pointing it out or the coaching staff for failing miserably thus far? I guess we'd like to see a similar non-con run from his 1st year and then sustained success into the conference season. If he has enough quality depth this year, maybe he could it. Very surprised to see that you are criticizing those who are being objective with the current state of the program. If it were better, there would be less negativity. This program stinks right now and this is not an opinion.
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Well put. The OP was an attempt to reshape reality to excuse historic failure. When people respond with their own, genuine assessment of reality, with well-reasoned arguments, they're told they're being pessimistic...or unpatriotic...or something.

I was as optimistic as anyone going into this past season, and I've had to recalibrate my perceptions and expectations. You live and learn.
 

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