Reality

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Bad Gopher said:
Even if both Pride and Brown sign, what is the most reasonably optimistic (one standard deviation? two?) outcome for next year? Look at the other teams in this league? Besides the cratered remains of Penn State, who would our roster be better than? And beyond the roster, who would Johnson outcoach to finish ahead of?
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I have been absolutely pessimistic and this is essentially why. Who can you say our roster is better than? A month ago I would've said PSU for sure, now I'm not sure that's the case. And I totally understand the crowd that says sure but PP Carrington II Fox etc will be better and this the team will be! That's certainly possible, but that's also implying no one else's FR/injuries don't improve. Just because Holloman didn't play as much as Carrington last year didn't mean he won't take a bigger leap in production. And furthermore, Johnson and staff have shown absolutely nothing in terms of being able to out coach teams in 2 years. Hard to think that changes.
 

Bad Gopher said:
Look at the other teams in this league. Besides the cratered remains of Penn State, who would our roster be better than? And beyond the roster, who would Johnson outcoach to finish ahead of?
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I'll point out that there are other teams in the league with big roster issues. Northwestern and Michigan come to mind. That could change if Buie and/or Audige return, though.
 

Here's the reality: CBJ isnt going to turn this program into a consistent upper level B1G team thats a threat to go deep into March.
That should be the goal.
Since that isnt going to happen, move on. Fire and try again.
Anything else is just wasting time.

What difference does it make if Johnson lands in 14th place again next year, or snares another couple capable guards and finishes 11th?
None. No difference, just wasted time and a bigger hole to climb out of. It'll be the ssme thr following season, and the next.

Stupidity. Move on.
 
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Johnnyboy18 said:
Still waiting for all the Ben superfans to pop out (they don't exist)!
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Me too....if we all look hard enough maybe we will find them. The negative crowd keeps telling us they exist but they must be really good at hiding.
 



formerlybis said:
I don't see the bolded as a third group. I think that's the current baseline perspective, everyone's starting point. From there, there's a continuum of optimism to pessimism. Maybe the hardcore pessimists wanted Johnson gone already, but now that that's not happening, I don't think they're truly writing off the season - they might have low expectations, though.
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Just a few posts before this one, USAF uses his fortune telling skills to assure us that there is no possible way Johnson can succeed here.

I don't think there are 3 groups either really. There is the crowd that doesn't know how things will go and is willing to see how it all turns out before giving up. And there is the negative crowd that has already decided how it will go and can't handle anyone not agreeing with them. They see that disagreement as some sort of unwavering support of the coach or delusional optimism.

Have said before, glad I am not wired to see things the way they do. That would be a really depressing way to live.
 

MNVCGUY said:
Just a few posts before this one, USAF uses his fortune telling skills to assure us that there is no possible way Johnson can succeed here.

I don't think there are 3 groups either really. There is the crowd that doesn't know how things will go and is willing to see how it all turns out before giving up. And there is the negative crowd that has already decided how it will go and can't handle anyone not agreeing with them. They see that disagreement as some sort of unwavering support of the coach or delusional optimism.

Have said before, glad I am not wired to see things the way they do. That would be a really depressing way to live.
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Lol the bolded goes both ways... Otherwise you all would not be on here arguing with us pessimistic fans all day long
 


formerlybis said:
I'll point out that there are other teams in the league with big roster issues. Northwestern and Michigan come to mind. That could change if Buie and/or Audige return, though.
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By no coincidence, Michigan is shown in projections I've seen (as of now) to finish 12th, right above us. Obviously, finishing higher than them would be nice.

We'll see where the dust settles with rosters. If the chaotic new normal turns out to leave programs like MIchigan in a bad spot, we might start to see the NCAA try to do something about it. 🤞🤞
 



formerlybis said:
1. The team objectively sucked last year, and when I say 'objectively", I'm going beyond just the W-L record. The offensive and defensive efficiency numbers explain why they didn't win many games. And by the way, year one - which everybody now remembers somewhat fondly - had putrid analytics, too, though admittedly slightly less putrid.

1A. A personal viewpoint not shared by many - I am not interested in or impressed with any player's individual production when the overall team efficiency is that bad. Can you make the team better, yes or no.

2. 54% of the minutes left the team, the lion's share from two starters who each played over 30+ mpg. There's two sides to that coin, and both are true - 1) change is needed because the group you had objectively sucked (see #1), and 2) that's a lot to replace and unless those replacement minutes are an upgrade (however that's defined), it probably won't get better.

3. That second side of the coin is what's being debated in this thread. I think both the optimists and pessimists have valid arguments, and none of us have a crystal ball.

The optimists fervently believe in that first side of the coin and see change as the hope. Maybe they think the replacements are more talented, but I'm more swayed by the thought that the replacements will be able to play better as a team. I don't think there's any real evidence of either the talent or the ability to play as a team, but neither is there evidence of the converse. It could happen.

Pessimists see that the talent has not obviously upgraded, and may have even downgraded. There's a bunch of players that are being counted on that have either not been seen, been injured, or are being counted on to be a better version of what they were in the past. It inspires skepticism, not confidence.

When I weigh the arguments, I come down on the pessimist side, but I do understand and appreciate the possibility that the optimists could be right. No one knows they're right. But people on both sides act like they do.
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Thanks for a very reasoned post. Well said. A shorter version might be: Optimists have no choice. They are that way by nature and see a situation they cannot control and naturally look for signs it could improve.

Whiney babies can only feel gratification playing chicken little trumpets.
 

leib0039 said:
I have been absolutely pessimistic and this is essentially why. Who can you say our roster is better than? A month ago I would've said PSU for sure, now I'm not sure that's the case. And I totally understand the crowd that says sure but PP Carrington II Fox etc will be better and this the team will be! That's certainly possible, but that's also implying no one else's FR/injuries don't improve. Just because Holloman didn't play as much as Carrington last year didn't mean he won't take a bigger leap in production. And furthermore, Johnson and staff have shown absolutely nothing in terms of being able to out coach teams in 2 years. Hard to think that changes.
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The popular take among the apologists--stated both explicitly and implicitly--is that Minnesota can't compete in the Big Ten and, the story goes, Johnson's failures only serve to prove that. I don't accept that notion, though, which more or less explains why I continue to view these past couple years as unacceptable.
 





formerlybis said:
I don't see the bolded as a third group. I think that's the current baseline perspective, everyone's starting point. From there, there's a continuum of optimism to pessimism. Maybe the hardcore pessimists wanted Johnson gone already, but now that that's not happening, I don't think they're truly writing off the season - they might have low expectations, though.
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Wrong. Their starting point is desperatey needing the team and Johnson to fail.
 

USAF said:
Here's the reality: CBJ isnt going to turn this program into a consistent upper level B1G team thats a threat to go deep into March.
That should be the goal.
Since that isnt going to happen, move on. Fire and try again.
Anything else is just wasting time.

What difference does it make if Johnson lands in 14th place again next year, or snares another couple capable guards and finishes 11th?
None. No difference, just wasted time and a bigger hole to climb out of. It'll be the ssme thr following season, and the next.

Stupidity. Move on.
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Wrong address. Coyle gets mail at the AD's office.
 

Bad Gopher said:
The popular take among the apologists--stated both explicitly and implicitly--is that Minnesota can't compete in the Big Ten and, the story goes, Johnson's failures only serve to prove that. I don't accept that notion, though, which more or less explains why I continue to view these past couple years as unacceptable.
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Again, where are these apologists? there isn’t anyone happy with the past 2 years and if year 3 is more of the same you will have a hard time finding anyone not on the fire the coach train.
 

Bad Gopher said:
The popular take among the apologists--stated both explicitly and implicitly--is that Minnesota can't compete in the Big Ten and, the story goes, Johnson's failures only serve to prove that. I don't accept that notion, though, which more or less explains why I continue to view these past couple years as unacceptable.
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Boogeymen that don't exist.
 





On this last day of April, here are the facts:
1. The Gophers MBB will have a 2023-2024 season
2. They will win some, and lose some - exact numbers of each TBD
3. CBJ is and will be the coach as far as I can tell
4. They will use a regulation size basketball
5. They will finish somewhere between 1 and 14 in the conference

Do not confuse accepting CBJ will be the coach and hoping for the best as being optimistic. It is literally all anyone can do at this point. Not one swinging D on this board can do a damn thing about it, and everyone knows it. It sucks being powerless. Our level of influence starts at jack and ends at squat.

I personally feel we are in for Season 3 of Shitshow U, but having even a modicum of hope does not make me optimistic, delusional or a CBJ fan boy. I was not thrilled with the hire at all. In fact, my reaction was more along the lines of WTF? But ruminating about something that hasn't happened yet is a waste of time and energy.

It is like having a shitty manager. Most people can see the impending train wreck coming long before it happens. However, I have yet to see senior leaders take decisive action to remove that manager until it negatively impacts them on a daily basis. It would be the right thing to do, but it would also require these leaders to admit they f'd up. That has about the same probability as the Catholic Church reversing itself on celibacy. So, I've got two choices - make the most of it or leave. Captain Coyle McSorley ordered the 4th boiler lit and we're out here in the middle of the Atlantic, so leaving isn't really an option. Complaining that the captain is an incompetent baffoon won't change the situation, either. While I am hoping we don't hit an iceberg again, I'm getting my long undies on and making sure my lifejacket is properly fitted, because there is a good chance I'm getting wet. But, we might get lucky and not end up at the bottom of the ocean. That is reality.
 

Interesting watching the hedging on this coaching hire. In 2023.
 

DarthGopher said:
On this last day of April, here are the facts:
1. The Gophers MBB will have a 2023-2024 season
2. They will win some, and lose some - exact numbers of each TBD
3. CBJ is and will be the coach as far as I can tell
4. They will use a regulation size basketball
5. They will finish somewhere between 1 and 14 in the conference

Do not confuse accepting CBJ will be the coach and hoping for the best as being optimistic. It is literally all anyone can do at this point. Not one swinging D on this board can do a damn thing about it, and everyone knows it. It sucks being powerless. Our level of influence starts at jack and ends at squat.

I personally feel we are in for Season 3 of Shitshow U, but having even a modicum of hope does not make me optimistic, delusional or a CBJ fan boy. I was not thrilled with the hire at all. In fact, my reaction was more along the lines of WTF? But ruminating about something that hasn't happened yet is a waste of time and energy.

It is like having a shitty manager. Most people can see the impending train wreck coming long before it happens. However, I have yet to see senior leaders take decisive action to remove that manager until it negatively impacts them on a daily basis. It would be the right thing to do, but it would also require these leaders to admit they f'd up. That has about the same probability as the Catholic Church reversing itself on celibacy. So, I've got two choices - make the most of it or leave. Captain Coyle McSorley ordered the 4th boiler lit and we're out here in the middle of the Atlantic, so leaving isn't really an option. Complaining that the captain is an incompetent baffoon won't change the situation, either. While I am hoping we don't hit an iceberg again, I'm getting my long undies on and making sure my lifejacket is properly fitted, because there is a good chance I'm getting wet. But, we might get lucky and not end up at the bottom of the ocean. That is reality.
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You're basically telling people to stop posting here. Keep in mind, you don't have to read this stuff.
 

There's a pile of crap. An optimist sees it and thinks: "with all that crap, there must be a pony in there somewhere."

I'm afraid we're dealing with a pile of crap.
 

DarthGopher said:
On this last day of April, here are the facts:
1. The Gophers MBB will have a 2023-2024 season
2. They will win some, and lose some - exact numbers of each TBD
3. CBJ is and will be the coach as far as I can tell
4. They will use a regulation size basketball
5. They will finish somewhere between 1 and 14 in the conference

Do not confuse accepting CBJ will be the coach and hoping for the best as being optimistic. It is literally all anyone can do at this point. Not one swinging D on this board can do a damn thing about it, and everyone knows it. It sucks being powerless. Our level of influence starts at jack and ends at squat.

I personally feel we are in for Season 3 of Shitshow U, but having even a modicum of hope does not make me optimistic, delusional or a CBJ fan boy. I was not thrilled with the hire at all. In fact, my reaction was more along the lines of WTF? But ruminating about something that hasn't happened yet is a waste of time and energy.

It is like having a shitty manager. Most people can see the impending train wreck coming long before it happens. However, I have yet to see senior leaders take decisive action to remove that manager until it negatively impacts them on a daily basis. It would be the right thing to do, but it would also require these leaders to admit they f'd up. That has about the same probability as the Catholic Church reversing itself on celibacy. So, I've got two choices - make the most of it or leave. Captain Coyle McSorley ordered the 4th boiler lit and we're out here in the middle of the Atlantic, so leaving isn't really an option. Complaining that the captain is an incompetent baffoon won't change the situation, either. While I am hoping we don't hit an iceberg again, I'm getting my long undies on and making sure my lifejacket is properly fitted, because there is a good chance I'm getting wet. But, we might Getty lucky and not end up at the bottom of the ocean. That is reality.
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"Our level of influence starts at jack and ends at squat."

This sentence replaces several thousand wasted posts.
 

Dakota2 said:
"Our level of influence starts at jack and ends at squat."

This sentence replaces several thousand wasted posts.
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There is probably only one influence we can have and it is negative. A kid looking at this board would get confirmation of what negative recruiters are going to say.
 

bga1 said:
There is probably only one influence we can have and it is negative. A kid looking at this board would get confirmation of what negative recruiters are going to say.
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All the recruits especially the older ones in the portal are reading these opinions. None will come to this mess.
 

Rockraven said:
All the recruits especially the older ones in the portal are reading these opinions. None will come to this mess.
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In the interest of saving Ben's job and getting the next Samuels to sign, we are shutting down Gopherhole. Carrier pigeons will be coming to your house for all follow on announcements. Certainly can't have any propect either HS or portal reading any of this craziness.
 

Big Dawg said:
In the interest of saving Ben's job and getting the next Samuels to sign, we are shutting down Gopherhole. Carrier pigeons will be coming to your house for all follow on announcements. Certainly can't have any propect either HS or portal reading any of this craziness.
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Without gopherhole, recruits would have no way of knowing the sh!thole Gopher bkb is in.
 

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