Reality

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Bad Gopher said:
Rather than change the subject, can you clarify what you meant when you said I wasn't interested in the team? It was something like, "There are plenty of fans still interested. That would not include you..." I want to give you the benefit of the doubt and give you the chance to clarify that in a way that makes sense.

What I'm getting from most of your posts lately is basically lashing out at people indiscriminately and nonsensically. Maybe you want to take a step back, slow down, and try to salvage things so you don't sound like a donkey all the time.
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If I ever sound like a Marxist you have permission to shoot me.
 

Bad Gopher said:
Rather than change the subject, can you clarify what you meant when you said I wasn't interested in the team? It was something like, "There are plenty of fans still interested. That would not include you..." I want to give you the benefit of the doubt and give you the chance to clarify that in a way that makes sense.

What I'm getting from most of your posts lately is basically lashing out at people indiscriminately and nonsensically. Maybe you want to take a step back, slow down, and try to salvage things so you don't sound like a donkey all the time.
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On the other hand, I was unreasonably harsh with you and I apologize. You are a good contributor here and likely a loyal fan.
 

Crappie said:
Frankly, what is odd is your unending IFs and Coulds.

IF mnvcguy opened up to reality he COULD actually see what so many other fans see.
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Fairly certain we all see it. I don't know how you could NOT see it. My question to you is, what are you going to do about it? What can you do to change it? Are you going to strap yourself to a tree on campus and refuse to eat until the administration fires Johnson?

There is literally nothing you can do. Zero. Zilch. Nada. There is nothing any of us can do to change the current situation. That is reality. Johnson will be the coach and the roster will be what it is going to be.

We are all coping with what has been an unmitigated shitshow thus far. Some do so by trying to have some optimism. Your coping mechanism, as are others, is certainly more fatalistic. But make no mistake, they are two heads of the same coin. Therefore, barring a miracle, what difference does it make to you if some choose to look for positives? Let it be. If you are right, we'll have a new coach for 24-25. You simply are not going to will it into existence for 23-24.
 

Dakota2 said:
Wrong. Their starting point is desperatey needing the team and Johnson to fail.
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For those in the "many want Johnson to fail" argument, do you really think this board is full of people who will be disappointed in Johnsons success if this time next year we are coming off a top four B1G finish and a Sweet 16 run? With maybe 1 or 2 exceptions, I think this entire message board would be ecstatic.
 

JDP said:
I couldn't agree more. If any portal kid actually read through many of the comments, even the two that committed- they may easily be led to ask themselves one question... is this what I want to be surrounded by?
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I would think they'd be more prone to asking themselves that question after watching Gopher game film from last year.
 


bleedsmaroonandgold said:
For those in the "many want Johnson to fail" argument, do you really think this board is full of people who will be disappointed in Johnsons success if this time next year we are coming off a top four B1G finish and a Sweet 16 run? With maybe 1 or 2 exceptions, I think this entire message board would be ecstatic.
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There are some here that have pretty much stated that they don't want him to have moderate success this year because they are afraid he would be retained. That's not the level you noted above but I think there is that group.
 

bga1 said:
There are some here that have pretty much stated that they don't want him to have moderate success this year because they are afraid he would be retained. That's not the level you noted above but I think there is that group.
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Moderate success would be getting to 8-10 conference wins. Which compared to where we have been is awesome. But that still won't result in a tournament bid, especially if we get 8. He's set the bar so incredibly low, that 5, or 6 conference wins is a nice improvement, but on the surface still sucks. That's the biggest problem. We could see improvement, and a big jump in improvement. But even jumping 100 spots in KenPom, we're still likely finishing last in the B1G and not sniffing the tournament.
 

bleedsmaroonandgold said:
For those in the "many want Johnson to fail" argument, do you really think this board is full of people who will be disappointed in Johnsons success if this time next year we are coming off a top four B1G finish and a Sweet 16 run? With maybe 1 or 2 exceptions, I think this entire message board would be ecstatic.
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Its literally the reason most post here.
 

Gophers7633 said:
Moderate success would be getting to 8-10 conference wins. Which compared to where we have been is awesome. But that still won't result in a tournament bid, especially if we get 8. He's set the bar so incredibly low, that 5, or 6 conference wins is a nice improvement, but on the surface still sucks. That's the biggest problem. We could see improvement, and a big jump in improvement. But even jumping 100 spots in KenPom, we're still likely finishing last in the B1G and not sniffing the tournament.
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He gets to 8 wins and has a solid fall recruiting group- lets say top 30-35 class in the rankings. What would you suggest our administration to do? Considering the last move they made, do you trust them to not toss us back in the abyss with another bad hire? Just asking.

It's odd to me that we see Ben failing and we think he will never do any better or at least do well enough. At the same time we place full faith and trust that the administration that screwed up last time will do amazing on the next coaching selection. I don't.
 



Dakota2 said:
On the other hand, I was unreasonably harsh with you and I apologize. You are a good contributor here and likely a loyal fan.
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I just don't want to see you going over the top and coming off as ridiculous. You have plenty of good things to say and good contributions.
 

Gophers7633 said:
Moderate success would be getting to 8-10 conference wins. Which compared to where we have been is awesome. But that still won't result in a tournament bid, especially if we get 8. He's set the bar so incredibly low, that 5, or 6 conference wins is a nice improvement, but on the surface still sucks. That's the biggest problem. We could see improvement, and a big jump in improvement. But even jumping 100 spots in KenPom, we're still likely finishing last in the B1G and not sniffing the tournament.
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8-10 conference wins is moderate success?

You sure you’re not looking for a different team’s board?

We’ve exceeded that level 4 times in the last 40 years.

Seems like here, that should be defined as success. At least if we want continuous program building.
 

atsgopher said:
8-10 conference wins is moderate success?

You sure you’re not looking for a different team’s board?

We’ve exceeded that level 4 times in the last 40 years.

Seems like here, that should be defined as success. At least if we want continuous program building.
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Here or anywhere - .500 in conference isn't moderate? Please.
 

bga1 said:
He gets to 8 wins and has a solid fall recruiting group- lets say top 30-35 class in the rankings. What would you suggest our administration to do? Considering the last move they made, do you trust them to not toss us back in the abyss with another bad hire? Just asking.

It's odd to me that we see Ben failing and we think he will never do any better or at least do well enough. At the same time we place full faith and trust that the administration that screwed up last time will do amazing on the next coaching selection. I don't.
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8-12 in the B1G is probably something like 16-16 overall, depending on how the OOC goes, so yeah, I'd say to get rid of him at that point. This is probably best case scenario though if we're being honest about it. If best case is .500 he's not the answer.
 



Gophers7633 said:
8-12 in the B1G is probably something like 16-16 overall, depending on how the OOC goes, so yeah, I'd say to get rid of him at that point. This is probably best case scenario though if we're being honest about it. If best case is .500 he's not the answer.
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I don't think that is the best case scenario. At the same time I wouldn't place a bet that we will get 8 Big Ten wins yet either. There is just so much we don't know. For this summer, I am giving it the benefit of the doubt.
 

bga1 said:
There are some here that have pretty much stated that they don't want him to have moderate success this year because they are afraid he would be retained. That's not the level you noted above but I think there is that group.
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I don't know if that's directed at me, but what I meant to say is that the program would be better off if they either a) performed well above expected or b) sucked again. The retain/fire decision is obvious in either of those cases. The in-between is where it gets murky.
 

atsgopher said:
8-10 conference wins is moderate success?

You sure you’re not looking for a different team’s board?

We’ve exceeded that level 4 times in the last 40 years.

Seems like here, that should be defined as success. At least if we want continuous program building.
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We're also playing 20 league games now. So not all 8/9 wins seasons are created equal. Haskins finished at .500 on better in league play 8 times. Monson did it 3 times. Tubby did it 2 times. Pitino did it 1 time. Finishing a couple games below .500 looks amazing now, only because the floor is so low.
 

formerlybis said:
I don't know if that's directed at me, but what I meant to say is that the program would be better off if they either a) performed well above expected or b) sucked again. The retain/fire decision is obvious in either of those cases. The in-between is where it gets murky.
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It wasn't directed at you and your statement is fair. I would agree that it is best for the program that it is clear after this year, which way to go.
 

bga1 said:
I don't think that is the best case scenario. At the same time I wouldn't place a bet that we will get 8 Big Ten wins yet either. There is just so much we don't know. For this summer, I am giving it the benefit of the doubt.
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You think we can get to 10 league wins?
 

Big Dawg said:
Cold winters-check
Ben inherited a mess-check
The Barn is old-check
We have injuries-check
No NIL-check
Gopherholers are mean-check

Did I catch it all?
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Poor Ben. Guy deserves a 5 year extension...
 

bleedsmaroonandgold said:
For those in the "many want Johnson to fail" argument, do you really think this board is full of people who will be disappointed in Johnsons success if this time next year we are coming off a top four B1G finish and a Sweet 16 run? With maybe 1 or 2 exceptions, I think this entire message board would be ecstatic.
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I'd be thrilled with a top 10 finish and a run to the NIT Sweet 16....
 



Gophers7633 said:
You think we can get to 10 league wins?
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I doubt it. But it is possible with this roster and one more good guard. If Ben gets to 10 wins this year we have a pretty solid coach. Remember we have been at or over .500 in the Big Ten 6 times in the last 24 years. Over .500 only 3 times. Hall of Fame coach Tubby Smith never got over .500

This is not an easy job. My complaints go to the administration. They should have never hired Ben to put him through this wholly predictable abuse. That said- at 2 million a year- he would have been a fool not to take their money. I wish him all the best this year in chasing his dream.
 

The hardest part about Ben's era so far has been that we don't fall back on our Defense. You can have a respectable team if you compete defensively. We haven't done that and losses have just stacked up.

We haven't exactly been efficient offensively either even though we are lower end talent-wise.

The coaching needs to elevate these guys.
 

skiumah1 said:
The hardest part about Ben's era so far has been that we don't fall back on our Defense. You can have a respectable team if you compete defensively. We haven't done that and losses have just stacked up.

We haven't exactly been efficient offensively either even though we are lower end talent-wise.

The coaching needs to elevate these guys.
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The biggest issue with last year's Gopher team wasn't defense, it was offense.
Way too few players with B1G offensive skills. 6-8 minute scoring droughts game after game. Almost no fast break ability. Turnovers. Poor shooting.
Offense beat them way more regularly than defense. They weren't a good defensive team, but they awful with the ball.
 

USAF said:
The biggest issue with last year's Gopher team wasn't defense, it was offense.
Way too few players with B1G offensive skills. 6-8 minute scoring droughts game after game. Almost no fast break ability. Turnovers. Poor shooting.
Offense beat them way more regularly than defense. They weren't a good defensive team, but they awful with the ball.
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Battle hurt us both ways. So did our guards. They are gone. And leave the injured rookie Carrington out of you rebuttal, please. That isn’t fair to him.
 
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Rockraven said:
Battle hurt us both ways. So did our guards. They are gone. And leave the injured rookie Carrington out of you rebuttal.
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A much better season lies ahead. I expect a much improved team this fall. I am sure these kids are stinging from last years results. No better motivation than to prove what they are made of.
 

Rockraven said:
Battle hurt us both ways. So did our guards. They are gone. And leave the injured rookie Carrington out of you rebuttal, please. That isn’t fair to him.
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Does the same apply to a dinged up sophomore that plays through injuries?
 


Crappie said:
Does the same apply to a dinged up sophomore that plays through injuries?
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Apparently just overrated and overmatched freshmen guards can apply. But irrational blame of Battle for poor recruiting and coaching are seemingly fine.
 

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