Realignment rumors

[UMwolverine]

So what do you teach?

Research is a major factor for all graduate students in the sciences. It also attracts better professors that want to do research outside of just teaching. Also, the research conducted at our major universities are significant contributors to our fundamental knowledge. The purpose of universities is to educate students! Some also have sports teams, but that is only for entertainment purposes. The top research institutions are all members of AAU.

I'm not sure how this is a debate. Both statements are true: a lot of high impact research is done at non AAU universities; the top research institutions are all members of AAU. They're not mutually exclusive.

 

[ClassOf98Gopher]

Notre Dame, Stanford, UVA can not be lured with money, the have a great deal of that. They have superior academic cred, UVA has a 70 year culture of ACC rivalries their fans , their largest donors love. I expect Texas and OU to the SEC to happen very quickly and the Big 10 to add no one.

This is the scenario that is almost a certainty. Missouri would never leave and the Big Ten universities collectively will not think it is worth adding Pitt or Iowa State.

 

[jovs]

Sounds like Texas and Oklahoma will join the SEC as they will let Texas keep the Longhorn network deal ! That would leave Kansas and Iowa St. finding a way into the Big 10 ?

I don't see Iowa State being added, more likely stay the same than add them, Kansas is going to be a long shot, not sure they would get enough support from the Big Ten school presidents, but they are AAU and like others have indicated there is a lot more going into the selection of schools than the athletic department.

 

[stocker08]

I think the ND boat has sailed, it isn't going to be
Syracuse, the biggest targets are NC and Georgia Tech, Texas A&M would be of interest I would think but I've never heard them mentioned. I doubt it will be a non land grant school though.

Texas A&M has never been mentioned....no. But talks of Texas joining the SEC are also new. Depends entirely on whether A&M do or do not want to be in a conference with Texas any longer. Seeing as how they have been left out 9f the loop on the Texas/OK talks....they might just be willing to split with the SEC altogether.

Hard to say. But I'd think they would have to be the best possible option for the B10. Adding another high end football school and breaking into the big Texas market.

 

[TruthSeeker]

Texas A&M has never been mentioned....no. But talks of Texas joining the SEC are also new. Depends entirely on whether A&M do or do not want to be in a conference with Texas any longer. Seeing as how they have been left out 9f the loop on the Texas/OK talks....they might just be willing to split with the SEC altogether.

Hard to say. But I'd think they would have to be the best possible option for the B10. Adding another high end football school and breaking into the big Texas market.

Exactly. It'd be a massive win for the Big 10.

Plus their revenue rivals Texas and OSU in the athletic department. They're a big fish.

 

[Ski-U-Ham]

Why wouldn't it make more sense for A&M to go back to the Big 12 if they're gonna go anywhere at all?

 

[ClassOf98Gopher]

Exactly. It'd be a massive win for the Big 10.

Plus their revenue rivals Texas and OSU in the athletic department. They're a big fish.

As to Texas A&M, I don’t see it. While Football is by far the most important consideration… there are other sports as well and it is just too far to travel. TAM would never leave the SEC.

The more I think of it, Notre Dame and Kansas as a package are the only ones that may make sense for the Big Ten and all voting parties.

 

[mkAz]

Pitt and Cincinnati would be intriguing to me, maybe Syracuse too.

 

[stocker08]

Why wouldn't it make more sense for A&M to go back to the Big 12 if they're gonna go anywhere at all?

The Big 12 is a dying conference. The odd conference out when realignment is all said and done. Especially if they lose Texas and Oklahoma.

 

[umn99]

The Big 12 is a dying conference. The odd conference out when realignment is all said and done. Especially if they lose Texas and Oklahoma.

Agree with this. I would pretty nervous if I was a Big 12 school right now.

I think the Big Ten goes west.

 

[nooram]

 

[ClassOf98Gopher]

Well… that is not going to happen.

 

[short ornery norwegian]

I've seen some articles suggesting that some of the remaining Big 12 teams might combine with the Pac 12 to form a super-conference.

But I think 99% of this is speculation.

The amazing thing is that, in this day and age of instant news and social media, that TX and OK have apparently been talking to the SEC for up to six months and it hasn't leaked until now. And - that Texas A&M apparently was (deliberately) kept in the dark. That is some high-level skullduggery.

 

[bizzle22]

I've seen some articles suggesting that some of the remaining Big 12 teams might combine with the Pac 12 to form a super-conference.

But I think 99% of this is speculation.

The amazing thing is that, in this day and age of instant news and social media, that TX and OK have apparently been talking to the SEC for up to six months and it hasn't leaked until now. And - that Texas A&M apparently was (deliberately) kept in the dark. That is some high-level skullduggery.

I think the stronger brands of the Pac 12 would be more likely to join the Big Ten than let the Big 12 leftovers latch on to them. The money and synergies are way stronger between Pac 12/Big Ten

 

[ClassOf98Gopher]

I think the stronger brands of the Pac 12 would be more likely to join the Big Ten than let the Big 12 leftovers latch on to them. The money and synergies are way stronger between Pac 12/Big Ten

Let’s pretend for a minute that we are not Big Ten loyalists… why would prestige teams in the conference that has won, by far, the most NCAA championships (The PAC 12) leave that conference to be a very distant appendage of the Big Ten, and numerically outvoted and therefore controlled by MidWestern university votes on conference athletic policy questions?

I just don’t see how that makes sense for UCLA and others to leave when they can control the West coast while being in the all-around winningest conference in NCAA history.

 

[stocker08]

Grabbing those teams would completely destroy the geographical identity of the Big Ten. From LA to Newark? That's a hefty stretch. I really don't like it at all. If we are just looking for two teams to go to 16....see what's realistically available. Again....sniff around A&M. If you can get them to bite....you've already won regardless of team #2.

 

[bizzle22]

Let’s pretend for a minute that we are not Big Ten loyalists… why would prestige teams in the conference that has won, by far, the most NCAA championships (The PAC 12) leave that conference to be a very distant appendage of the Big Ten, and numerically outvoted and therefore controlled by MidWestern university votes on conference athletic policy questions?

I just don’t see how that makes sense for UCLA and others to leave when they can control the West coast while being in the all-around winningest conference in NCAA history.

First off, I think you are overrating the prestige of the Pac 12. Many of those championships are either from a long time ago, or they are in non-revenue sports in which many other D1 schools don’t even compete. Those things don’t write checks, and most 18 year olds don’t care about them.

As far as control, the Pac 12 is losing ground fast and doesn’t distribute even close to the same revenue as the B1G/SEC. It’s similar to the situation of Texas in the Big 12. The Longhorns called the shots in the Big 12, yet they are (very likely) leaving for the SEC where they won’t have near as much control.
I’m also not really sure what topics you are thinking of when you mention those schools being outvoted. The schools of the Pac 12 and Big Ten already behave in similar fashions, so I’m not sure what major issues would arise. If there are any particular concerns I’m sure they could be written into a contract.

Ultimately the B1G offers the top tier Pac 12 schools money and exposure. Instead of having to be around for the Pac 12 Network re-boot (which didn’t work well the first time, and who knows how it will go this time) they can just join the B1G which already has a very well established TV network, and distributes almost twice as much to its members. Joining the B1G probably puts an additional $30M+ per year in the pocket of each the Pac 12 schools that join which would far outweigh any added travel costs.

 

[bizzle22]

Grabbing those teams would completely destroy the geographical identity of the Big Ten. From LA to Newark? That's a hefty stretch. I really don't like it at all. If we are just looking for two teams to go to 16....see what's realistically available. Again....sniff around A&M. If you can get them to bite....you've already won regardless of team #2.

The geographical identity ship sailed away when Maryland and Rutgers were added. It’s all about money and institutional fit.

I agree it wouldn’t be a bad idea to check in with A&M. They don’t fit at all geographically with most of the Big Ten, but the money and institutional fit are there.

 

[howeda7]

Agree with this. I would pretty nervous if I was a Big 12 school right now.

I think the Big Ten goes west.

West Virginia surely is already begging the ACC for a meeting.

 

[ClassOf98Gopher]

First off, I think you are overrating the prestige of the Pac 12. Many of those championships are either from a long time ago, or they are in non-revenue sports in which many other D1 schools don’t even compete. Those things don’t write checks, and most 18 year olds don’t care about them.

As far as control, the Pac 12 is losing ground fast and doesn’t distribute even close to the same revenue as the B1G/SEC. It’s similar to the situation of Texas in the Big 12. The Longhorns called the shots in the Big 12, yet they are (very likely) leaving for the SEC where they won’t have near as much control.
I’m also not really sure what topics you are thinking of when you mention those schools being outvoted. The schools of the Pac 12 and Big Ten already behave in similar fashions, so I’m not sure what major issues would arise. If there are any particular concerns I’m sure they could be written into a contract.

Ultimately the B1G offers the top tier Pac 12 schools money and exposure. Instead of having to be around for the Pac 12 Network re-boot (which didn’t work well the first time, and who knows how it will go this time) they can just join the B1G which already has a very well established TV network, and distributes almost twice as much to its members. Joining the B1G probably puts an additional $30M+ per year in the pocket of each the Pac 12 schools that join which would far outweigh any added travel costs.

We strongly disagree on what the outcome will be, but one thing is 100 percent certain… it will be a middle- to long-term financial cost/benefit analysis of the money impacts of any change that will determine who is in or out of any Conference.

 

[stocker08]

The geographical identity ship sailed away when Maryland and Rutgers were added. It’s all about money and institutional fit.

I agree it wouldn’t be a bad idea to check in with A&M. They don’t fit at all geographically with most of the Big Ten, but the money and institutional fit are there.

With Penn State already in the mix....the addition of Maryland and Rutgers didn't change a whole lot. Now look at Nebraska being the furthest west team. An expansion all the way to LA is a major stretch of the Big Ten footprint.

 

[bizzle22]

We strongly disagree on what the outcome will be, but one thing is 100 percent certain… it will be a middle- to long-term financial cost/benefit analysis of the money impacts of any change that will determine who is in or out of any Conference.

I’m not totally sure what I think the outcome will be. Adding those Pac 12 teams to the Big Ten would be a seismic shift in the landscape of college sports. Could easily see some school presidents getting cold feet about a change like that.

What I’m trying to get at is that if we are talking Big Ten expansion the top tier Pac 12 schools make far more sense than a Kansas or Iowa State. Those Pac 12 schools would actually bring something new to the table, and would offer the chance for growth of revenue shares for every school. Kansas and Iowa State aren’t going to do much to grow revenue, they are just another mouth to feed. B1G would be better off staying as is than adding any of the leftover Big 12 schools.

 

[bizzle22]

With Penn State already in the mix....the addition of Maryland and Rutgers didn't change a whole lot. Now look at Nebraska being the furthest west team. An expansion all the way to LA is a major stretch of the Big Ten footprint.

As would expansion to Texas. Just curious, why would you say you’d give A&M a call, but not UCLA/USC? All of them are big fish who would have reason to listen if the Big Ten called. A&M is a little closer than the CA schools, but it’s still a plane ride away from every B1G school and in a different region of the country than any other B1G school.

 

[ClassOf98Gopher]

I’m not totally sure what I think the outcome will be. Adding those Pac 12 teams to the Big Ten would be a seismic shift in the landscape of college sports. Could easily see some school presidents getting cold feet about a change like that.

What I’m trying to get at is that if we are talking Big Ten expansion the top tier Pac 12 schools make far more sense than a Kansas or Iowa State. Those Pac 12 schools would actually bring something new to the table, and would offer the chance for growth of revenue shares for every school. Kansas and Iowa State aren’t going to do much to grow revenue, they are just another mouth to feed.

Would that change be seismic? Yes! I guess I am just trying to be realistic and I can’t see that happening. I lived in LA a couple years. They don’t want to have to watch all their teams games at what would be weird times for them.

And I don’t see what the Big Ten (my favorite Conference - I am loyal) really has to offer to them. I mean, I watched at least football, volleyball, basketball, softball, and baseball last year (2021). Our teams sucked in the NCAA playoffs. Huge disappointments. Why would UCLA, USC, et al take that huge risk for negative feedback from their fans just to be in the Big Ten. Doesn’t make sense to me.

I still think if the Big Ten wants make a move and add programs, Notre Dame and Kansas are the most realistic descent options. Not seismic… but you do what you can. Football will matter most in the decision, then basketball, but all of the 20 plus other sports play a part in the fiscal always is as well… small as they are.

 

[matt]

Anyone that thinks there is any chance A&M leaves the SEC for the Big Ten is outside of their mind.

 

[bizzle22]

Would that change be seismic? Yes! I guess I am just trying to be realistic and I can’t see that happening. I lived in LA a couple years. They don’t want to have to watch all their teams games at what would be weird times for them.

And I don’t see what the Big Ten (my favorite Conference - I am loyal) really has to offer to them. I mean, I watched at least football, volleyball, basketball, softball, and baseball last year (2021). Our teams sucked in the NCAA playoffs. Huge disappointments. Why would UCLA, USC, et al take that huge risk for negative feedback from their fans just to be in the Big Ten. Doesn’t make sense to me.

I still think if the Big Ten wants make a move and add programs, Notre Dame and Kansas are the most realistic descent options. Not seismic… but you do what you can. Football will matter most in the decision, then basketball, but all of the 20 plus other sports play a part in the fiscal always is as well… small as they are.

USC/UCLA might get some negative fan feedback on it, but if that many teams moved from Pac 12 to Big Ten there would still be some familiar teams and more traditional kickoff/tip-off times when they played each other. Their payout from the TV deals would be virtually guaranteed to go up 60-100% from what they get now, which is why it’s worth the risk.

Adding the Pac 12 schools wouldn’t even be that different for B1G softball/baseball/golf teams. Most of them already spend the first month or so of their season basically living out West.

I’ll agree Notre Dame is a no brainer. I just don’t think they want to be in the Big Ten. They’ve had plenty of chances and never jumped. But if the B1G adds traditional Notre Dame rivals USC and Stanford could the Irish be coaxed to join? Probably not, but it wouldn’t hurt.

 

[stocker08]

As would expansion to Texas. Just curious, why would you say you’d give A&M a call, but not UCLA/USC? All of them are big fish who would have reason to listen if the Big Ten called. A&M is a little closer than the CA schools, but it’s still a plane ride away from every B1G school and in a different region of the country than any other B1G school.

It's still quite a bit closer than cali. And it's the most talent rich state as far as high school football is considered.....so having some exposure there would be nice.

 

[ClassOf98Gopher]

Anyone that thinks there is any chance A&M leaves the SEC for the Big Ten is outside of their mind.

This is true.

I guess this is coming up because A and M preferred being the only Texas team in the SEC. I am sure that was their preference… but it os a big leap to go from dissatisfaction to jumping ship.

Pretend for a minute that, say Minnesota, was unhappy that Maryland and Rutgers were added to the Big Ten. In that pretend scenario, it’s not like we were going to leave the conference because of it. A and M is not going to leave their conference either.

 

[stocker08]

USC/UCLA might get some negative fan feedback on it, but if that many teams moved from Pac 12 to Big Ten there would still be some familiar teams and more traditional kickoff/tip-off times when they played each other. Their payout from the TV deals would be virtually guaranteed to go up 60-100% from what they get now, which is why it’s worth the risk.

Adding the Pac 12 schools wouldn’t even be that different for B1G softball/baseball/golf teams. Most of them already spend the first month or so of their season basically living out West.

I’ll agree Notre Dame is a no brainer. I just don’t think they want to be in the Big Ten. They’ve had plenty of chances and never jumped. But if the B1G adds traditional Notre Dame rivals USC and Stanford could the Irish be coaxed to join? Probably not, but it wouldn’t hurt.

ND hasn't wanted to join any conference for the obvious reasons. Don't think it has anything to do with the Big Ten specifically.

But I really wonder when they change their tune. Major shake-ups are occurring NOW and conference numbers are growing. Once they are all at sixteen and divisions are broken into two... there will be seven division games per year. In order to keep some crossover games in tact....marquee out of conference games are going to become more rare. ND will find it harder and harder to schedule as an independent.

With the Texas and OK talks.....the Big Ten will once again have those discussions. I don't think ND is going to want to be on the outside looking in when the Big Ten and the SEC hit sixteen. Maybe they prefer the ACC....but I highly doubt that.

 

[stocker08]

This is true.

I guess this is coming up because A and M preferred being the only Texas team in the SEC. I am sure that was their preference… but it os a big leap to go from dissatisfaction to jumping ship.

Pretend for a minute that, say Minnesota, was unhappy that Maryland and Rutgers were added to the Big Ten. In that pretend scenario, it’s not like we were going to leave the conference because of it. A and M is not going to leave their conference either.

But Minnesota was also a charter member of the Big Ten....with now 125 years of history. Texas A&M has little to no history in the SEC.

Still don't think that TAMU is a likely candidate for the B10....as it would be surprising for them to ditch the SEC. Really comes down to how much they want to distance from Texas. Potentially how upset they are that the conference went behind their backs to add teams. More unlikely....but whether they want to be associated with a conference that has academic standards.