Post Game Thread: Gophers Lose to North Carolina

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hello-world said:
I'm not worried:
  • Max demonstrated that he can be a competent QB
  • Fleck is clearly coaching for his job (his embrace of transfer portal and strategic use of timeouts in this game for the first time in his career demonstrate this)
  • Taylor will help fix the run game
  • Playing with a new center is always tricky
I am concerned longer-term:
  • Offensive coordinator is bad again (but I also thought this about early Rossi and was proven very wrong so who knows)
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lol
 

upnorthkid said:
Well I've tried to take a step back for a second, rewatched some of the game and man... this is really a tough one to swallow. UNC with numerous bounces/calls at just the right moments (Gousby holding call on the Johnson fumble, them getting the Brosmer fumble and recovering their own fumble late in the game, the Int drop that would've been a pick 6 for the Gophers, the Dragan doink, a missed ineligible downfield on their late long TD pass). That being said...

Regarding the team...

On offense, they have some pieces that are nice. Major is a good complementary back, the OL should be ok, Brosmer seems like a reasonable balance guy to a good rushing attack, and Jackson and Taylor when he's back are studs. But so many unforced errors from ineligible downfields, to takedowns turned holdings (cooper just let him go; the 10 yards are a crippler in that situation), to dropped passes that are TDs (thank goodness for that elijah spencer sighting or i would've wondered if he was playing), this team does not play with enough pace/explosiveness to have ANY margin on this side of the ball. one of 3 plays on each series of 3 to get a first down is going to be a RUTM (if not 2). If you negative a play, you cannot make up for it when this happens (Brosmer, to his credit, did this a couple times tonight, once with some big help from Jackson and once from Nubin). That style is a bygone era. But the players are playing within the system they are fed and cannot change that. I have a hard time faulting them as they're college players and going to make mistakes.

On defense, the aggression is fun and I think actually fits this team that has a decent set of corners and some good pass rushers. It will lead to tough big plays (Walley in no mans land, penalty on Gousby, etc.) but also leads to opportunity on early passes and QB pressures. Gotta come up with them better when they're there as we were only 1/3 on opportunities tonight (Walley pick, missed one by I think Bryan, and missed fumble). Big plays/TOs is the new era given all the offensive advantages. Have to sew what you reap however.

On ST, this whole unit was awful. Idk what the message was but the PRs were bad, the punts were floppy, and Kesich had the worst game of his career and may have played himself out of an NFL contract as they're that finicky.

Coaching. It's hard to really say it with any detail, but it feels we have no real identity that players buy into. PJ is a "we are sound, fundamental, don't beat ourselves, and win close games" kind of coach. However, if you're going to do that, you also need a coach who understands what metrics and analytics show as well as understands game flow. PJ seems to get it somewhat well when winning by double figures, but has an abysmal understanding of game theory overall. And given he seems to add next to nothing from an X's and O's standpoint based on how he interviews, that's a problem.

Now it's a problem you can account for by hiring great assistants who then get to run their stuff and for whatever reason, he seems to let the defense do that at least for the most part. Instead he chooses to leverage and hamstring the offense season after season by inserting himself, none of which was more apparent than when in his post interview he reiterated that running on 3rd and long in a goal to go situation is a good play call. It's really hard for me to say much about Harbaugh (or Sanford for that matter, or even Ciarrocca) knowing how much he is apparently mettling. And instead of him showing he knows his shit and showing he can ascend, his one season at WMU of 13-1 (others combined 17-23) and MN of 11-2 (others combined 39-33) are raising more questions than answers.

I've thought PJ was going to be it for a long time and was going to bring us to a different era, have loved what's he's stood for, and enjoyed how he's always sought to represent the U well. Unfortunately he just seems to be unable to understand when to let go of control and let risk exist when it's intelligent to do so like the top coaches do. I think this season is going to be the beginning of the end for him. Coyle won't have the money and stones to do it this year, but next year's team looks rough on paper (this team unloads a lot of older leadership and I'd expect the portal comes calling if this is the style we're going to play). Hard to know what to really do/where to turn as a gopher fan at this point. Looks like a long year ahead of us.
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Sadly, as a Fleck supporter, I agree.
upnorthkid said:
Well I've tried to take a step back for a second, rewatched some of the game and man... this is really a tough one to swallow. UNC with numerous bounces/calls at just the right moments (Gousby holding call on the Johnson fumble, them getting the Brosmer fumble and recovering their own fumble late in the game, the Int drop that would've been a pick 6 for the Gophers, the Dragan doink, a missed ineligible downfield on their late long TD pass). That being said...

Regarding the team...

On offense, they have some pieces that are nice. Major is a good complementary back, the OL should be ok, Brosmer seems like a reasonable balance guy to a good rushing attack, and Jackson and Taylor when he's back are studs. But so many unforced errors from ineligible downfields, to takedowns turned holdings (cooper just let him go; the 10 yards are a crippler in that situation), to dropped passes that are TDs (thank goodness for that elijah spencer sighting or i would've wondered if he was playing), this team does not play with enough pace/explosiveness to have ANY margin on this side of the ball. one of 3 plays on each series of 3 to get a first down is going to be a RUTM (if not 2). If you negative a play, you cannot make up for it when this happens (Brosmer, to his credit, did this a couple times tonight, once with some big help from Jackson and once from Nubin). That style is a bygone era. But the players are playing within the system they are fed and cannot change that. I have a hard time faulting them as they're college players and going to make mistakes.

On defense, the aggression is fun and I think actually fits this team that has a decent set of corners and some good pass rushers. It will lead to tough big plays (Walley in no mans land, penalty on Gousby, etc.) but also leads to opportunity on early passes and QB pressures. Gotta come up with them better when they're there as we were only 1/3 on opportunities tonight (Walley pick, missed one by I think Bryan, and missed fumble). Big plays/TOs is the new era given all the offensive advantages. Have to sew what you reap however.

On ST, this whole unit was awful. Idk what the message was but the PRs were bad, the punts were floppy, and Kesich had the worst game of his career and may have played himself out of an NFL contract as they're that finicky.

Coaching. It's hard to really say it with any detail, but it feels we have no real identity that players buy into. PJ is a "we are sound, fundamental, don't beat ourselves, and win close games" kind of coach. However, if you're going to do that, you also need a coach who understands what metrics and analytics show as well as understands game flow. PJ seems to get it somewhat well when winning by double figures, but has an abysmal understanding of game theory overall. And given he seems to add next to nothing from an X's and O's standpoint based on how he interviews, that's a problem.

Now it's a problem you can account for by hiring great assistants who then get to run their stuff and for whatever reason, he seems to let the defense do that at least for the most part. Instead he chooses to leverage and hamstring the offense season after season by inserting himself, none of which was more apparent than when in his post interview he reiterated that running on 3rd and long in a goal to go situation is a good play call. It's really hard for me to say much about Harbaugh (or Sanford for that matter, or even Ciarrocca) knowing how much he is apparently mettling. And instead of him showing he knows his shit and showing he can ascend, his one season at WMU of 13-1 (others combined 17-23) and MN of 11-2 (others combined 39-33) are raising more questions than answers.

I've thought PJ was going to be it for a long time and was going to bring us to a different era, have loved what's he's stood for, and enjoyed how he's always sought to represent the U well. Unfortunately he just seems to be unable to understand when to let go of control and let risk exist when it's intelligent to do so like the top coaches do. I think this season is going to be the beginning of the end for him. Coyle won't have the money and stones to do it this year, but next year's team looks rough on paper (this team unloads a lot of older leadership and I'd expect the portal comes calling if this is the style we're going to play). Hard to know what to really do/where to turn as a gopher fan at this point. Looks like a long year ahead of us.
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Sadly, I concur. Fleck has tried to copy Ferentz with partial success. Ferentz has just a few seasons left. Given enough time we might replace Iowa as the most boring winning team in the B18. Personally with the Big18 expansion I’d be ok with that, beating Iowa and Wisconsin is all that matters.
 


With a left footed kicker still do not like that they picked the right hashmark to kick from. That was not a good decision tonight, especially with the cross wind that started to kick up on the open end.
 


TWO missed field goals. Why? Why run right?

Why run to the right hashmark?

The win was there to take, the big.opening Thursday night game.

Be definition Fleck stinks. No analysis needed. That is the primary source fact.
 

RE Right Hash Kick: I HAVE to believe that Fleck asked Dragan where he wanted the ball & he said a little more to the right side; he just didn't come through.

If not, that truly is coaching malpractice. The absolute first thing a coach should be thinking about if playing for a game winning kick is "where does my kicker want to kick from?" And if he's not asking the kicker this, that is unacceptable.

Lot of season still ahead. Expectations have been tempered. I'll still be watching. Beat Iowa & Wisconsin & give it to someone in some other games & I'll be satisfied. Don't think we'll see another RB like that guy last night (that dude is a freak). But it's hard not to be disappointed.
 

I know it's not good to overreact after the first game right out of the gate, but man, it feels like all the energy for this season was just vacuumed out. The offense just sputtered the whole evening and it was so frustrating to watch.

The defense was at least a positive in many points, but even then, they weren't able to hold NC in a couple critical moments.

I try to be an optimist, so I have some hope that the Gophers can use the next two games to work out some issues, be better prepared for the Big Ten and go on to have an alright season. However, my concerns for a losing season have been raised.
 




upnorthkid said:
a missed ineligible downfield on their late long TD pass)
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It wasn't a TD pass but I am surprised how little this is being talked about. Their TE was blocking 10 yards downfield (he's an eligible receiver but he can't block that far downfield) and their RG was a good 5-6 yards downfield when the pass was thrown.

Not close to the main reason they lost but that was a very bad miss by the refs. That should be something the replay officials can automatically look at after the play as it's hard for the refs to be looking at every lineman on a play like that.
 

Kesich had to tell PJ that he preferred the right of center spot. No other reason to decrease the angle of success.
 

I'm not a kicker, but I think it makes sense for a left footed kicker to want to be more to the right. On the left side you need to kick it across your body more to aim for the middle, which I would think has a higher chance for it to hook.

The start of the kick looked good, I think the wind just caught it when it got up higher in the air as it took quite a bit of a curve once it got up.

He did extremely well last year, I think this is just a bit of a case of regressing towards the mean.
 

bleedsmaroonandgold said:
PJ seems to struggle coming up with an offense when he can't lean on an NFL caliber receiver inherited from the previous regime.
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Bateman was a good recruit that PJ brought in. He was a big part of the 2019 team.

Why haven't we had another recruit add anywhere near that?
 



caliGopher said:
Bateman was a good recruit that PJ brought in. He was a big part of the 2019 team.

Why haven't we had another recruit add anywhere near that?
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Bucky Irving was rated higher than Bateman and ended up being as good as him. Darius Taylor and Daniel Jackson were rated close to the same out of HS.
 

GophersInIowa said:
Bucky Irving was rated higher than Bateman and ended up being as good as him. Darius Taylor and Daniel Jackson were rated close to the same out of HS.
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I should have been more clear, I was referencing the WR position. There have been a handful of actual upper tier recruits. I would not consider Jackson similar to Bateman, but I also don't think he's a slouch. He is a very good WR. in the 6 years since Bateman came to the U, we've had one WR who was from a suburb of Bateman's general vicinity (again, not intended as a slight, different players, and I'd argue Bateman having TJ to be opposite of made a huge difference for his performance while Jackson has had very little support).

Bateman: 92 rating; 207th National Rank; 31 WR Rank
Jackson: 89 Rating; 438th National Rank; 78 WR Rank

The question, I think is still valid if not poorly worded. A coach. Who was a WR. Who is supposedly a master recruiter, who put two WRs into the Pros (TJ wasn't his recruit, but 2019 was when he really shined, so that counts in Fleck's favor) and we've managed a single WR recruit that even approached Bateman?
 

caliGopher said:
I should have been more clear, I was referencing the WR position. There have been a handful of actual upper tier recruits. I would not consider Jackson similar to Bateman, but I also don't think he's a slouch. He is a very good WR. in the 6 years since Bateman came to the U, we've had one WR who was from a suburb of Bateman's general vicinity (again, not intended as a slight, different players, and I'd argue Bateman having TJ to be opposite of made a huge difference for his performance while Jackson has had very little support).

Bateman: 92 rating; 207th National Rank; 31 WR Rank
Jackson: 89 Rating; 438th National Rank; 78 WR Rank

The question, I think is still valid if not poorly worded. A coach. Who was a WR. Who is supposedly a master recruiter, who put two WRs into the Pros (TJ wasn't his recruit, but 2019 was when he really shined, so that counts in Fleck's favor) and we've managed a single WR recruit that even approached Bateman?
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you've watched our offense. what highly rated WR would want to come here over a place that actually throws the ball, plays spread, and let's them showcase their talents?
 

Gophergrandpa said:
Kesich had to tell PJ that he preferred the right of center spot. No other reason to decrease the angle of success.
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My wife and I Ilike to watch the team warm up before the game. Kesich was hitting FG's from almost that exact same spot and end of the stadium during the pregame warm up. I can't say exactly how many tries but he did not miss.
 

Great to be back at the Bank! Game seemed well attended despite the weather. Gold out was successful. As a guy who sits in the west end zone I was glad the Splash ad didn’t cover the whole screen like it used to on extra points. Thank you Splash and someone in Marketing. Thing drove me crazy when extra points were kicked to east end zone. I use the video board when play is down that way.

Concerned that I didn’t see any noticeable change in offense and special teams. Defense played well but too many missed tackles. Way too many penalties. Can’t miss that first FG. Can’t have that holding penalty on the last drive. Hopefully DT is ready for Iowa.
 

IMHO, it was Fleck and his coaches who hyped up Brosmer as this great leader, thinker, passer, etc.

and based on what we saw, a lot of that hype was undeserved. In the end, we're talking about a guy who played FCS ball at New Hampshire. and that's what he looked like - an FCS QB.

to be clear - I'm not blaming Brosmer. I'm blaming Fleck and the coaches for over-hyping him and raising expectations way beyond any reasonable levels.

and Fleck does this all the time - he hypes some player, and that player almost never delivers at a high enough level to justify the hype. and that, in turn, has me worried about Lindsey - that all the hype for Lindsey is just setting up the fans to be let down.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
and Fleck does this all the time - he hypes some player, and that player almost never delivers at a high enough level to justify the hype. and that, in turn, has me worried about Lindsey - that all the hype for Lindsey is just setting up the fans to be let down.
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I feel like GHers are hyping Lindsey up way more than Fleck is
 

Sparlimb said:
Special Teams got worse. Offense is horrendous. Coaching is terrible as usual. Defense did what they could, but our once good kicker had too many years under Wegner.
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I can't blame the ST coach too much for second the missed field goal, but how the hell do we line up in an illegal formation twice on punts (I only remember one, have read that there were two)? The one I recall cost us a fumble recovery! Getting a punt team aligned is not rocket science. Our new special teams coach FAILED miserably in his debut.
 

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