***POST-GAME THOUGHTS THREAD***

I'm not convinced in the least that this game was won on the offensive side of the field. If you enjoy 13 offensive points - or 20, if you agree that the ref(s) took away an obvious TD - and you think 13-20 points will win a lot of D-1 football games, then I can't blame your blatant optimism.

Not sure I can speak for the rest of us, but I yearn for better offensive coaching, which tends to precede better offensive execution.

I yearn for better educated fans. First play of game was a play-action pass. The offensive coaching staff has forgotten more about football than you and the rest of your uninformed critics will ever know.
 

Another weird call. Call was "Offsides, unabated to the QB", but the perpetrator was back into starting position when the flag was thrown; and certainly few could argue his path to the QB remained free.

I wondered about that myself. Is the college rule the same as the NFL?
 

I know Lauer played a lot of snaps too, but Olson was in there at the end.

Wonder if Rodrick Williams and Cedric Thompson are both on the outs right now. Didn't see either one of those guys.

Ed Olsen played a ton throughout the game. Nice to see. Cedric played, but wasn't tackling well (Wells had the same issue to my surprise). Nugget was on the sideline, but never entered the game that I saw. Cobb was playing so well it didn't matter.

Another new development I noticed (not sure if it was mentioned) was that coming off the bye week we made a significant change in WR personnel. The youth movement has begun. Engel made some plays, but there were many times where we had Fr & So only out there... Harbison and Wolitarsky played a ton. Maye and Jones both had as many snaps as Engel and way more than Fruectte. I was at the game and didn't actually count, but I am pretty sure about those numbers.
 

I yearn for better educated fans. First play of game was a play-action pass. The offensive coaching staff has forgotten more about football than you and the rest of your uninformed critics will ever know.

Could not agree more. There is a chicken/egg thing with coaching similar to the one that gets tossed around with recruiting around here. Do great coaches make great players or do great players make great coaches? I would also love to see a ban around here on the phrase "open the playbook". The coaches are going to give the players what they think they can handle and execute based on watching film of the opponent and more importantly watching the guys they have every day in practice.

I get as frustrated as any with the playcalling at times but I don't think for one second that Limegrover is the reason we don't have a kick butt offense. Our problem on offense is we have QB's that have talent but also have some clear limitations, and we have a lack of overall talent at the skill positions, especially when compared to the guys they are going up against.
 

Derrick Wells just doesn't look right. He missed multiple tackles and was pulled from time to time with Vereen filling in at corner for him. He's either injured or the move to corner is not going well.
 


Derrick Wells just doesn't look right. He missed multiple tackles and was pulled from time to time with Vereen filling in at corner for him. He's either injured or the move to corner is not going well.

Wells strikes me as one of those guys that will always be dealing with an injury of some kind due to his size. I don't spend time breaking down the coverage or anything like that so can't speak to how he is doing as a cover corner but will agree that after looking very dynamic last season at safety he has been pretty much invisible since the move to corner.
 

It's "not in our cards" because the coaching staff doesn't give them even half a chance to score points. Period.

This discussion about how folks think they know better than Limegrover is so silly. We scored 40+ points earlier this year against poor teams. Our offense won't do that in the B1G (Indiana?) and so we play a style to keep us in games. You do remember we were in the IA game in the 4th and the MI game into the 3rd, right? You do know we won the game yesterday, right?

We ran an offense that gave us TOP advantage and kept our D fresh. The D playing well isn't mutually exclusive to the O's play! It may also be the reason we were able to run for first downs to seal the game at the end. We played an offense that had zero turnovers. I can't be certain, but pretty sure that helped us win too.

The bottom line is we won the game and most likely because we played the style we did. This idea that if we would have aired it out would have meant a blow out is so wrong. This isn't Madden guys, the Hail Mary, Fake FG, and QB Waggle are not always the key to success.
 

Derrick Wells just doesn't look right. He missed multiple tackles and was pulled from time to time with Vereen filling in at corner for him. He's either injured or the move to corner is not going well.

Agreed. Wells had tackling issues. On the flip side Vareen looked great at CB. Murray did as well. If Murray could learn to turn his head he could play on Sundays. He absolutely blankets his WR on almost every play. IMO he is our best CB.
 

James Manuel played a hell of a game, and Ra'Shede made some great plays as well. Eric Murray had a rough game in coverage, but didn't seem to lose any confidence which is nice to see from a young player. As someone else noted, the tackling was sloppy early, but the Gophers made plays on defense when they needed to with the notable exception of that last touchdown drive. Even without Kolter/Mark, holding the Cats to 17 AND scoring 7 of your own on the road is an impressive showing. I liked the decision to blitz the less mobile QB often.

On offense, it was nice to see Nelson have a little success throwing the football. I thought Cobb flashed a bit, it's rare to see a Gopher back make someone miss, and Cobb did that a few times yesterday. I continue to be disappointed by the offense as a whole...we're not going to be in many games on the road getting a total of 1 first down on our first four drives and putting up just 7 points in a half. The offense was more productive as the game wore on (and should have had another 7 points as we are all aware), but the slow starts have been a trend.

The only really ugly thing in this game was the play calling to end the half in a 7-7 game. You start with the ball at the Northwestern 49 with one timeout and something like 1:40 left in the half. You start by running the ball up the middle TWICE? There's just no excuse with combination of time/score/field position to be that conservative.
 



Were going to go with the hot hand at QB. When the O is struggling, coaches will make a change. They got their two QB system that had at NIU. Not ideal to rotate, but gotta give to who is slinging the ball best.

And we need them both healthy too.
 

And we need them both healthy too.

We need them both healthy because of the amount the QB runs and the likelihood of injuries but I would really like to see one of these guys separate as the clear cut #1 guy. I think Nelson still has the best chance overall to be that guy but so far neither one has taken the reigns to this point.
 

Could not agree more. There is a chicken/egg thing with coaching similar to the one that gets tossed around with recruiting around here. Do great coaches make great players or do great players make great coaches? I would also love to see a ban around here on the phrase "open the playbook". The coaches are going to give the players what they think they can handle and execute based on watching film of the opponent and more importantly watching the guys they have every day in practice.

I get as frustrated as any with the playcalling at times but I don't think for one second that Limegrover is the reason we don't have a kick butt offense. Our problem on offense is we have QB's that have talent but also have some clear limitations, and we have a lack of overall talent at the skill positions, especially when compared to the guys they are going up against.

Blame it on the players? A lot of times they don't get half a chance to compete with the play calling. I had a better 2 minute drill with my 5th grade team. When I read the multiple posts about it not being about Limegrover I think we as Gopher fans get what we deserve in a lot of ways.
 

Well, then what were you referencing about good things happening when Limegrover opens up the playbook? We've played a similar style all season long (good and bad), so how could you possibly know that good things happen with this team when they open it up? We are a team with a lack of weapons in the receiving game and sporadic QB and OL play.

On another note, the offense had quite a bit to do with our win today. The game isn't measured by fantasy football stats.
#1: Our offense ran 63 plays and didn't commit a single TO. Not turning the ball over was huge today.
#2: We ran the ball decent, not great, but good enough to keep it a threat and have a possibility of passing. When we can't run at all, we won't be able to pass the ball.
#3: We had a defensive TD and STILL dominated NWestern in time of possession (fresh defenses play fast).
#4: We picked up two first downs at the end to end the game (also got a huge FG in the 4th quarter).

Our offense isn't great. It's actually not very good. However, that's not because Limegrover doesn't open up the playbook. It's because we are playing two second year QBs, we have a beat up offensive line and we lack weapons in the passing game. The offense played well enough to put our defense in a position to be effective. It's the exact opposite of what happened in the Iowa game where we turned the ball over, couldn't run and got killed in time of possession.

I wish our offense could lineup and open up the playbook and put up 40 points a game, but it's not in our cards. We need our offense to be effective enough to not put us in a hole. They did that today, so the game was partially won on the offensive side of the ball.

Our OL is not beat up. One guy with a bum ankle with the rest healthy in no way constitutes beat up.
 



Yeah, I agree.

Leidner had a bad one early on. Maxx was really open and Mitch overthrew him.

The Wolitarsky one was a drop. He should have caught that pass, it hit him in stride in the hands.

Nelson overthrew Williams on his first drive of the game as well.
 

Blame it on the players? A lot of times they don't get half a chance to compete with the play calling. I had a better 2 minute drill with my 5th grade team. When I read the multiple posts about it not being about Limegrover I think we as Gopher fans get what we deserve in a lot of ways.

I'm not trying to take all the blame off of Limegrover. Believe me there are plenty of times where the play calling seems suspect to downright bad. Case in point the 2 minute "drill" yesterday, which was about as poorly managed and executed as it possibly could have been.

My point is that I don't believe for a second you could keep the exact same personnel we have right now, change only Limegrover, and suddenly turn this into a great offense. Limegrover is not perfect by any stretch of the imagination but he is not the primary reason our offense has struggled this year, in the end it all comes down to talent on the field. In the non-conf games we had more talent then our opponents so we put up lots of points, in the Big Ten we don't have more talent then most of the teams we play so we are going to struggle until we find/develop some legit playmakers on that side of the ball.
 

The Offense produced 10 points and had only three drives that went for more than 25 yards. They didn't turn the ball over, which was GREAT, but they didn't do much else either. Some horrible penalties (refs and players) contributed to it too.

http://espn.go.com/ncf/drivechart?gameId=332920077
 

I wondered about that myself. Is the college rule the same as the NFL?

I think the officials got it right but was late. If the defender clears the OL player it should be shut down. I think he was going to let it go but then the center moved the ball before he got back.
 

My thoughts:
-Huge win
-Don't care that NW was missing a few key players. I don't give our boys a pass for injuries when we are missing a key player, so I am sure is heck not going to diminish a win when the other team is. Guess what NW: we got hosed on some calls, life isn't fair. When the going gets tough, then go and get tough. That's what we did today, and we haven't done that in a long time.
-Hageman was all over the place making plays.
-Cobb ran the ball very well.
-I liked the coaching staff's willingness to try out both QBs and stick with the hot hand.
-There were some bad missed passes that could have really blown this game open.
-Tackling needs to improve.
-That two minute offense at the end of the first half was a catastrophe, that really needs to improve.
-We are 1-2, let's grab 2 of the next 5 to improve on last year's total. Won't want to hear any excuses if we don't make a bowl game. We still have Indiana and PSU on the schedule.
 

I'm not trying to take all the blame off of Limegrover. Believe me there are plenty of times where the play calling seems suspect to downright bad. Case in point the 2 minute "drill" yesterday, which was about as poorly managed and executed as it possibly could have been.

My point is that I don't believe for a second you could keep the exact same personnel we have right now, change only Limegrover, and suddenly turn this into a great offense. Limegrover is not perfect by any stretch of the imagination but he is not the primary reason our offense has struggled this year, in the end it all comes down to talent on the field. In the non-conf games we had more talent then our opponents so we put up lots of points, in the Big Ten we don't have more talent then most of the teams we play so we are going to struggle until we find/develop some legit playmakers on that side of the ball.

^This^

We don't have any big play makers on O.
 

I'm not trying to take all the blame off of Limegrover. Believe me there are plenty of times where the play calling seems suspect to downright bad. Case in point the 2 minute "drill" yesterday, which was about as poorly managed and executed as it possibly could have been.

My point is that I don't believe for a second you could keep the exact same personnel we have right now, change only Limegrover, and suddenly turn this into a great offense. Limegrover is not perfect by any stretch of the imagination but he is not the primary reason our offense has struggled this year, in the end it all comes down to talent on the field. In the non-conf games we had more talent then our opponents so we put up lots of points, in the Big Ten we don't have more talent then most of the teams we play so we are going to struggle until we find/develop some legit playmakers on that side of the ball.

I would change QB coach before OC. Nelson jumps when he throws, both he and Leidner hold the ball too long and take bad sacks. Nelson under threw the TD, he threw a 100 mph fastball that Maxx dropped. Maxx gave him the "what the hell" look.

Limgrover went with the right QB, called the plays from the bowl game, and dialed up creative plays. I want to see the progression over the next two years and then make judgement. I think it is more on trusting the players. Iowa trusts their young QB to make audibles, we don't seem to.
 

I yearn for better educated fans. First play of game was a play-action pass. The offensive coaching staff has forgotten more about football than you and the rest of your uninformed critics will ever know.

It appears that you are being serious here, so I'll play. So if the first play of the game is a play-action pass, then by your argument, the offensive coaching staff equals pure genius? Please tell me your argument is a heck of a lot stronger than that. If calling a play-action pass as the first offensive play of the game is all it takes to demonstrate offensive acuity, I'd say your standards are extremely poor.
 

Blame it on the players? A lot of times they don't get half a chance to compete with the play calling. I had a better 2 minute drill with my 5th grade team. When I read the multiple posts about it not being about Limegrover I think we as Gopher fans get what we deserve in a lot of ways.

Wow! Don't you think maybe you might be a little over the top. The bolded remark above is all a person needs to know that you shouldn't be taken seriously. I suggest you might want enroll in an anger management class since you can't seem to control it.:rolleyes:
 

This discussion about how folks think they know better than Limegrover is so silly. We scored 40+ points earlier this year against poor teams. Our offense won't do that in the B1G (Indiana?) and so we play a style to keep us in games. You do remember we were in the IA game in the 4th and the MI game into the 3rd, right? You do know we won the game yesterday, right?

We ran an offense that gave us TOP advantage and kept our D fresh. The D playing well isn't mutually exclusive to the O's play! It may also be the reason we were able to run for first downs to seal the game at the end. We played an offense that had zero turnovers. I can't be certain, but pretty sure that helped us win too.

The bottom line is we won the game and most likely because we played the style we did. This idea that if we would have aired it out would have meant a blow out is so wrong. This isn't Madden guys, the Hail Mary, Fake FG, and QB Waggle are not always the key to success.

I think you're onto something here, and I'm surprised I didn't see it before. What you're really saying is that Limegrover is pure genius, and I agree. If the Gophers' offense bothered to put up points, it would just excite the opposing team and make them think they need to score too, to win. By making no attempt to score on offense, the Gophers lull their opponent to sleep, and then *voila* pop them in the mouth with a defensive or special teams TD for the win!

It's not clear why this scheme didn't work at all against Iowa or Michigan, but hey, you can't try to win them all, right?
 

Some random thoughts:

Does anybody know if there is an automatic review of play calling by the league's refs after each game? I know you get some bad calls your way, so do the rest of the league. But, it seems like we had more against us yesterday. That nullified TD was particularly bad and could have been a game changer.

Kudos to our team. It wasn't a perfect game by any stretch, but they found a way to win yesterday.

Everybody deals with injuries, and NW was lucky last year they came away relatively unscathed. We had to burn Nelson's red shirt last because of injury and inexperience, and our larder was relatively bare. It turn out that was the thing to do in order that we have someone experienced enough this season at the QB helm.

I see subtle improvements here and there this season so far which I hope will carry on into the remaining games and into next year as the younger pups get more reps. We are also developing more team depth and little more speed. These all make me a little more optimistic than ever in a long time about the program's direction. When we can build team depth by allowing more players to red shirt and develop into fifth year seniors watch out. I am excited for the Isaac Hayes' and the Jonah Pirsigs of this team.

At some point in time though, you need those upper level game changer recruits in your fold to content for a title. These next set of incoming recruits are going to be critical. Even three of those guys on a team can make big impacts. A lot pivots on winning and the stability of the coaching staff. Winning consistently those games that are winnable. WIN AND THEY WILL COME. It is a catch 22.

We all want to win now. What fan doesn't? However, it is going to take a little longer than expected IMHO.
 

I think you're onto something here, and I'm surprised I didn't see it before. What you're really saying is that Limegrover is pure genius, and I agree. If the Gophers' offense bothered to put up points, it would just excite the opposing team and make them think they need to score too, to win. By making no attempt to score on offense, the Gophers lull their opponent to sleep, and then *voila* pop them in the mouth with a defensive or special teams TD for the win!

It's not clear why this scheme didn't work at all against Iowa or Michigan, but hey, you can't try to win them all, right?

Hey cncmin, if it makes you feel better, I do find your ignorance refreshing.
 

It appears that you are being serious here, so I'll play. So if the first play of the game is a play-action pass, then by your argument, the offensive coaching staff equals pure genius? Please tell me your argument is a heck of a lot stronger than that. If calling a play-action pass as the first offensive play of the game is all it takes to demonstrate offensive acuity, I'd say your standards are extremely poor.

Please let us know what you think should be changed then? Most everyone has already agreed that the 2-minute drill was terrible yesterday. Most everyone has already agreed that Limegrover can be frustrating at times. But most everyone else believes play calling is not the main reason the offense isn't very good.

Yesterday, they mixed in some timely play action passes. They ran a successful screen. They ran a reverse flea flicker that should have resulted in an easy TD. They ran a run/pass option on 3rd down to get the first down and the win instead of just running it up the middle to keep the clock running. So I'll ask you again, what should be changed? Pass more?
 

It appears that you are being serious here, so I'll play. So if the first play of the game is a play-action pass, then by your argument, the offensive coaching staff equals pure genius? Please tell me your argument is a heck of a lot stronger than that. If calling a play-action pass as the first offensive play of the game is all it takes to demonstrate offensive acuity, I'd say your standards are extremely poor.

He's not calling them geniuses. He is suggesting, however, that Limegrover might know a little more about the game than some clown on GH. Can't imagine why he would think that. Care to total up the hours he spent preparing for this game versus the time you spent watching it and bitching about the play that was just called? Then there are all of the years he's spent coaching and the fact he watches his team every day and knows what they can and cannot do versus your vast experience for three hours a Saturday plus the fact you also watch NFL football, played in high school, and maybe even coached your kid's peewee team. They've got a philosophy and a plan based on that. You might not agree with it, but at least stop pretending like you're the actual genius.
 

He's not calling them geniuses. He is suggesting, however, that Limegrover might know a little more about the game than some clown on GH. Can't imagine why he would think that. Care to total up the hours he spent preparing for this game versus the time you spent watching it and bitching about the play that was just called? Then there are all of the years he's spent coaching and the fact he watches his team every day and knows what they can and cannot do versus your vast experience for three hours a Saturday plus the fact you also watch NFL football, played in high school, and maybe even coached your kid's peewee team. They've got a philosophy and a plan based on that. You might not agree with it, but at least stop pretending like you're the actual genius.


Wait just a minute Mr. Mulligan! I've coached football for 37 years, 29 at the BCS level, with 17 as head coach. I won two National Championships and was NCAA National Coach of the Year once. I pioneered the Wildcat, Pistol, and Colt .45 offense and introduced the bubble screen/jet sweep/flee-flicker-flywheel to modern day football. Now, before I tell you guys what's what, who's this Matt LemonOrchard fella?
 

Wait just a minute Mr. Mulligan! I've coached football for 37 years, 29 at the BCS level, with 17 as head coach. I won two National Championships and was NCAA National Coach of the Year once. I pioneered the Wildcat, Pistol, and Colt .45 offense and introduced the bubble screen/jet sweep/flee-flicker-flywheel to modern day football. Now, before I tell you guys what's what, who's this Matt Lemongreaser fella?

Congratulations. :)
 

He's not calling them geniuses. He is suggesting, however, that Limegrover might know a little more about the game than some clown on GH. Can't imagine why he would think that. Care to total up the hours he spent preparing for this game versus the time you spent watching it and bitching about the play that was just called? Then there are all of the years he's spent coaching and the fact he watches his team every day and knows what they can and cannot do versus your vast experience for three hours a Saturday plus the fact you also watch NFL football, played in high school, and maybe even coached your kid's peewee team. They've got a philosophy and a plan based on that. You might not agree with it, but at least stop pretending like you're the actual genius.

See, it's not my job to figure out how to move the football and score. That's HIS job. And he's been doing a poor job of that ever since he got to the U. It doesn't require genius-level intelligence to realize that you shouldn't expect different results by simply doing the same failing thing over and over, with few or no adjustments. He runs an extremely predictable offense that offers almost no imagination, one designed for and requiring superior athletes to dominate the line of scrimmage and explosive RBs to break tackles. It is not evident, through 2 1/2 years of Kill's tenure, that the team has either ability. But the coaching staff continues to coach a system that requires it, regardless.

GopherinIowa, you made my point for me - you listed a bunch of plays that were NOT simply runs up the gut that either worked very well or, had they simply been executed, would have been huge gains or scores. Even the TD that was called back was outside the box, and that was a score, on a play that displayed a bit of imagination. The QB rollout for the final first down was very effective; how many of us just expected another dive play with a 4th-down punt forthcoming? It would appear then, that you are agreeing with me that opening up the playbook permits the opportunity to move the ball.

What much of the fanbase is complaining about is that the offense is boring, unimaginative, and ineffective. What we're asking for is - because the standard calls (mostly, unimaginative variations of runs up the middle) aren't effective - is to actually try something different; be it a higher proportion of screen passes, pump and goes, TE posts, even strong-side option sweeps, off-tackle runs...anything but keep repeating the same thing that fails time and time again, which is usually (1) middle run, (2) middle run, (3) simple, short passing pattern on 3rd-and long, and (4) punt. The coaching staff employs a simple, mid-tier varsity level playbook. I expect more from a coaching staff getting paid that much money at this level, and I don't apologize for that expectation.

Much of the fanbase is suddenly under the belief that - because they won at NW - that the offense was coached near-optimally to enable that win. The rest of the fanbase is seeing past those delusions, realizing that the team won in spite of the offense.
 




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