POLL: Do you want the Gophers to make the NCAA Tourney if it means Pitino returns for another season?

[Hates Monikers]

I get the intent of the poll, but most it doesn't have to be an either-or question for us or for Coyle. It's okay for us to cheer on the team then hope for a new coach, and it's okay for Coyle to make that decision. Mason (bowl game) and Tubby (tournament) were both fired under similar atmospheres, where the team reached a lower-level benchmark but the fanbase was almost completely disinterested. Those were under different ADs, but I've never heard so many people say they don't care much about the basketball team anymore. And Coyle did pull the trigger on a nine-win football coach, although there were different issues in play.

 

[short ornery norwegian]

Believe it or not, people are capable of considering more than one idea at a time. People are even capable of considering ideas that may be contradictory.

I want the Gopher Program to win. And, I also believe that Pitino has not shown enough to make me think that he is the long-term answer for the program.

So, if the Gophers manage to win a couple of games in the NCAA tournament, I will be happy for the team. But, at the same time, I realize that winning tournament games makes it more likely that Pitino will stick around or even get an extension. So, from my perspective, the NCAA wins would be a pyrrhic victory. ( definition of pyrrhic: (of a victory) won at too great a cost to have been worthwhile for the victor.)

IMHO, the games the Gophers win under Pitino do not erase the flaws in the program, including player development and the glaring inconsistencies from game to game. I just don't see anything that makes me believe that Pitino is able to fix those flaws.

 

[ekeg0002]

The poll was purposely specific to this year for the reasons laid out above in the thread. Obviously if we asked about the bigger picture it would clearly elicit different responses. An NCAA bid hangs in the balance, so it's interesting to see how much fans value the experience of seeing our team in the tourney vs. their feelings about the coach.

Love the experience of seeing our team in the tourney, makes March Madness (which is my favorite annual sporting event and its not close) that much more fun.

That being said, that's exactly the reason I responded the way I did. I will also love Gopher NCAA appearances in the future. Imagine if the Gophers earned a 1, 2 or 3 seed, how much more exciting it would be than sneaking in with a 10 seed, with the best case scenario being a win or two. I miss '97....

 

[GopherGangsta]

If he's not fired, he's likely to get another extension. The last one was two years ago. You can't send him out recruiting with 1-2 years left on his contract. That's why I think a move is more likely than some think.

I'd like to think Coyle is ready to move on given the fact that he was going to fire him already last year.

 

[ekeg0002]

Believe it or not, people are capable of considering more than one idea at a time. People are even capable of considering ideas that may be contradictory.

I want the Gopher Program to win. And, I also believe that Pitino has not shown enough to make me think that he is the long-term answer for the program.

So, if the Gophers manage to win a couple of games in the NCAA tournament, I will be happy for the team. But, at the same time, I realize that winning tournament games makes it more likely that Pitino will stick around or even get an extension. So, from my perspective, the NCAA wins would be a pyrrhic victory. ( definition of pyrrhic: (of a victory) won at too great a cost to have been worthwhile for the victor.)

IMHO, the games the Gophers win under Pitino do not erase the flaws in the program, including player development and the glaring inconsistencies from game to game. I just don't see anything that makes me believe that Pitino is able to fix those flaws.

My feelings exactly. Great post.

 

[Go Gophs]

Body of work is not impressive to me when you are hovering around .500, under .500 in your conference and haven't won a road game. NET ranking of 53 and RPI of 42.

To me that screams inconsistency. If their "body of work" was stronger than ever, we'd be talking about a 3-5 seed right now and getting rest for some of our banged up players. As it sits, we are fighting to stay off the bubble...

 

[WriterGoph]

Believe it or not, people are capable of considering more than one idea at a time. People are even capable of considering ideas that may be contradictory.

I want the Gopher Program to win. And, I also believe that Pitino has not shown enough to make me think that he is the long-term answer for the program.

So, if the Gophers manage to win a couple of games in the NCAA tournament, I will be happy for the team. But, at the same time, I realize that winning tournament games makes it more likely that Pitino will stick around or even get an extension. So, from my perspective, the NCAA wins would be a pyrrhic victory. ( definition of pyrrhic: (of a victory) won at too great a cost to have been worthwhile for the victor.)

IMHO, the games the Gophers win under Pitino do not erase the flaws in the program, including player development and the glaring inconsistencies from game to game. I just don't see anything that makes me believe that Pitino is able to fix those flaws.

This is a good post and the kind of discourse I was hoping to create with this poll/thread. Everybody has their own opinions and the point is to express them. Not sure why some other posters are feeling so insecure with their own thoughts that they have to resort to calling it a sh*t topic.

 

[SixBySix]

P.S., not long ago, the Gophers were ranked near the top 10 and a team like Purdue would have been considered an almost LOCK WIN in a game on our home floor. Do we forget how we got to the place where Purdue came in here ranked and us not?

I started seriously following Gopher's hoops relatively recently--what do you mean by "not long ago" here? 25th anniversary of 1997 is right around the corner.

 

[Gopherfan84]

Wouldn't surprise me one bit that several of his wishes were denied. But I clearly remember there being a problem with his assistants after Tubby's kid's DUI.

Saunders was an excellent College coach at the old Community College on Hwy 12. He had them ranked at one point.

Started with Jimmy Williams for Tubby and Saul's situation didn't help either. Flip did go on record saying he could've hired Ryan if he wanted. Either way probably an upgrade over our current one.

 

[WriterGoph]

I started seriously following Gopher's hoops relatively recently--what do you mean by "not long ago" here? 25th anniversary of 1997 is right around the corner.

Not sure what he is talking about. Purdue has rarely been a "lock" home win ever in the 20+ years since that Final Four team. Sh*t, we were pleased like a pig in poop to barely escape with a win against them at Mackey in 1997. Even the year we were ranked near the Top 10 before Al Nolen got hurt, we played Purdue (also ranked) at Williams and it was a true battle and came down the final minute.

But this is the same guy who was claiming the Gophers whole program should be massively embarrassed for losing to a Top 25 team (Rutgers) on the road a few weeks back. Interesting perspective on that one.

 

[Bad Gopher]

I get the intent of the poll, but most it doesn't have to be an either-or question for us or for Coyle. It's okay for us to cheer on the team then hope for a new coach, and it's okay for Coyle to make that decision. Mason (bowl game) and Tubby (tournament) were both fired under similar atmospheres, where the team reached a lower-level benchmark but the fanbase was almost completely disinterested. Those were under different ADs, but I've never heard so many people say they don't care much about the basketball team anymore. And Coyle did pull the trigger on a nine-win football coach, although there were different issues in play.

In my recollection, the nadir of interest/enthusiasm in the program was Clem's first year--in the wake of the Madison scandal and with a young and gutted roster. Haskins stood in the lobby of the Bierman Building handing out free tickets to anyone who'd take them, just to get some butts in the seats and noise in the venue. My roommate grabbed a couple to the Indiana game, and although they were in the upper deck, we easily found a couple empty seats close to the court.

Within a couple years, the life was back thanks to a blossoming team in what turned into a Sweet 16 run, followed by the doorstep of the Final Four the following year. Going back even further, the immediate charge that Musselman put in the program following the George Hanson debacle shows how fast the energy and fan interest can be reintroduced by the right leadership, style of play, and winning. History shows that you're never very far from a dramatic turnaround if you play your cards right.

 

[bonin21]

The way this question and the answers were written is so loaded...

Why not something like, "Which of these outcomes would you prefer?"
The Gophers make the tournament and whether or not Pitino is back is TBD
The Gophers miss the tournament and Pitino is gone
And so on

 

[Holy Man]

The way this question and the answers were written is so loaded...

Why not something like, "Which of these outcomes would you prefer?"
The Gophers make the tournament and whether or not Pitino is back is TBD
The Gophers miss the tournament and Pitino is gone
And so on

This is the way many surveys are structured. Questions that clearly indicate the preferred answer of the questioner. We all know what is going on and the survey was successful in encouraging discussion.

 

[Holy Man]

In my recollection, the nadir of interest/enthusiasm in the program was Clem's first year--in the wake of the Madison scandal and with a young and gutted roster. Haskins stood in the lobby of the Bierman Building handing out free tickets to anyone who'd take them, just to get some butts in the seats and noise in the venue. My roommate grabbed a couple to the Indiana game, and although they were in the upper deck, we easily found a couple empty seats close to the court.

Within a couple years, the life was back thanks to a blossoming team in what turned into a Sweet 16 run, followed by the doorstep of the Final Four the following year. Going back even further, the immediate charge that Musselman put in the program following the George Hanson debacle shows how fast the energy and fan interest can be reintroduced by the right leadership, style of play, and winning. History shows that you're never very far from a dramatic turnaround if you play your cards right.

The beauty of basketball is that it can be turned around in a really short time. The challenge we have had here is that quick turnarounds have also been directly connected with cheating. We can't have that again.

Larger question than just our situation is the general decline in interest/attendance at spectator sports, especially college, over the last decade. I would love to see that change, but I'm not seeing that happen anytime soon. The highlights are enough for many. And being at the place to be seen for the "big" games is adequate for most. That effects economics and the ability to make quick turnarounds. The times are different now, and I don't think it is as possible as an era gone by.

Those of us interested for the long haul, loyalty, and love of the game are dinosaurs.

 

[Dakota2]

Almost all of the losses have been "bad" losses; very bad. The object of playing in the Big Ten is to win a conference title and, if not, be in the upper echelon of the conference. The object is not to have your losses be considered "good" losses so you can get into the tournament. A good, competitive team will always get into the tournament.

 

[skiumah1]

I'll take whatever the end of the season brings. But if the season ends how it looks like it's gonna end, I'm ready for a new coach next year.

If we lose this game at Indiana, we're going to be pretty squarely on the bubble. Lunardi has Gophers as one of the last 4 byes right now.

If we don't end up in the tournament, lock it in Pitino is gone. Could get interesting if we're able to win a game or two in the NCAAs

 

[howeda7]

I'll take whatever the end of the season brings. But if the season ends how it looks like it's gonna end, I'm ready for a new coach next year.

If we lose this game at Indiana, we're going to be pretty squarely on the bubble. Lunardi has Gophers as one of the last 4 byes right now.

If we don't end up in the tournament, lock it in Pitino is gone. Could get interesting if we're able to win a game or two in the NCAAs

We'll be on the play-in line if we lose to Indiana and out if we lose to Illinois. We would need to win the last 3 to get back in, IMO.

 

[SPEGOPHER]

A large part of the equation for Coyle is (1) fan interest in the program and (2) future outlook for the team. Both of those are headed in the wrong direction and will not change regardless of how the season ends (barring some miracle run). In a lot of ways, it mirrors the end of the Tubby era, unfortunately.

We are going to struggle mightily next year in an empty Barn no matter who coaches, which sucks, but it’s time for Coyle to get his guy in there.

 

[WriterGoph]

[

Almost all of the losses have been "bad" losses; very bad. The object of playing in the Big Ten is to win a conference title and, if not, be in the upper echelon of the conference. The object is not to have your losses be considered "good" losses so you can get into the tournament. A good, competitive team will always get into the tournament.

If you can't grasp the fact that we have literally played one of the toughest schedules in the country thus far, I don't know what to tell you. All of our road losses are Quad 1 losses, which means none of them are considered "bad" losses by the committee.

Sorry I really don't care what a jaded fan's perspective on our resume is compared to the committee. I mean, we had people apologizing for beating Purdue last week. That should tell you plenty

 

[USAF]

[


If you can't grasp the fact that we have literally played one of the toughest schedules in the country thus far, I don't know what to tell you. All of our road losses are Quad 1 losses, which means none of them are considered "bad" losses by the committee.

Sorry I really don't care what a jaded fan's perspective on our resume is compared to the committee. I mean, we had people apologizing for beating Purdue last week. That should tell you plenty

If I hear "quad 1" one more time, I'm going to hurl.

 

[Otis]

And then he would have died and we would have been starting over right before a new season. Not sure given Flip's end, lamenting over not hiring him is the most astute move.

Sad, but true.

 

[cjbfbp]

If he's not fired, he's likely to get another extension. The last one was two years ago. You can't send him out recruiting with 1-2 years left on his contract. That's why I think a move is more likely than some think.

As I recall, the last extension didn't come with an increase in the buyout. I don't care if he is extended (even with a slight bump in compensation) as long as the buyout isn't increased.

 

[MplsGopher]

Even if they did extend him, any team up against us for a recruit is going to be telling him "Pitino is not going to be your coach. He's either going to move on, or get canned".

Probably were saying that for last class.

 

[USAF]

As I recall, the last extension didn't come with an increase in the buyout. I don't care if he is extended (even with a slight bump in compensation) as long as the buyout isn't increased.

An extension automatically means he's here for another year. Eff that.

 

[Outsider]

[


If you can't grasp the fact that we have literally played one of the toughest schedules in the country thus far, I don't know what to tell you. All of our road losses are Quad 1 losses, which means none of them are considered "bad" losses by the committee.

Sorry I really don't care what a jaded fan's perspective on our resume is compared to the committee. I mean, we had people apologizing for beating Purdue last week. That should tell you plenty

So what would you consider a bad loss? 4 of the 7 are by 15, 19, 25, and 27. In my book those are bad losses. You seem to think that just because they are Quad 1 (sorry USAF) they aren’t bad ! So would losing by 50 make them bad? I think the committee would factor it in.

 

[Go Gophs]

I started seriously following Gopher's hoops relatively recently--what do you mean by "not long ago" here? 25th anniversary of 1997 is right around the corner.

Earlier in the season.

 

[Go Gophs]

Not sure what he is talking about. Purdue has rarely been a "lock" home win ever in the 20+ years since that Final Four team. Sh*t, we were pleased like a pig in poop to barely escape with a win against them at Mackey in 1997. Even the year we were ranked near the Top 10 before Al Nolen got hurt, we played Purdue (also ranked) at Williams and it was a true battle and came down the final minute.

But this is the same guy who was claiming the Gophers whole program should be massively embarrassed for losing to a Top 25 team (Rutgers) on the road a few weeks back. Interesting perspective on that one.

A team ranked #12-15 vs a team sitting about 50th should be a lock win on your home court.

See, this is the thing. You are perfectly OK with us losing a game in which we are in this situation.

And I will stand by my statement that losing to Rutgers sucks. Either way. You can sugar coat it all you want, but when it comes down to it, they are a program that loves to and knows how to lose.

That is what separates Minnesota from the rest of the successful programs in the Big Ten though. Other programs expect to win games like this, while we roll in with the old "lets see how it goes".

This attitude is engrained in the program down to the coaches, players, administration and even fans. Some of us don't care for it. Winners win...

 

[short ornery norwegian]

As someone noted, when fans are allowed to attend games with no restrictions, the ticket sales - or lack thereof - for Gopher Basketball games will go a long way toward determining Pitino's fate.

The Gopher Athletic program needs Men's Hoops to be a strong revenue generator. When Coyle made the change with the FB program, he specifically cited ticket sales as one of the factors that influenced his decision.

If Pitino cannot put butts in seats, that will ultimately determine what Coyle does.

 

[WriterGoph]

A team ranked #12-15 vs a team sitting about 50th should be a lock win on your home court.

See, this is the thing. You are perfectly OK with us losing a game in which we are in this situation.

And I will stand by my statement that losing to Rutgers sucks. Either way. You can sugar coat it all you want, but when it comes down to it, they are a program that loves to and knows how to lose.

That is what separates Minnesota from the rest of the successful programs in the Big Ten though. Other programs expect to win games like this, while we roll in with the old "lets see how it goes".

This attitude is engrained in the program down to the coaches, players, administration and even fans. Some of us don't care for it. Winners win...

Who was 50th and who was 12-15th?? Please explain. Your logic is very hard to follow. Purdue was just ranked when we beat them and they have been many of the time we have played them the last 23 years. Also, we have rarely been ranked 12-15th in the last 23 years (ballparking here, but that has probably happened in less than 5 seasons).

As far as Rutgers, I'm not sugar coating anything. They were a ranked team within days of that game. You are trying to make some silly argument that a team's historical standing should mean more than their current season rankings/resume. Ridiculously silly.

By your logic, Kentucky and Duke are two of the best teams in the nation this year and all wins over them should be taken with great pride and valued more than any other win.

 

[Go Gophs]

Earlier in the season it was that situation. Gophers were 16th I guess. Purdue not even in the picture.
They spanked us. Killed us.

And watch tonight. We will get in about a 8-12 point hole in the first half because we shoot a bunch of low percentage jumpers because we just aren't smart or well coached.

This will be against a team that is not all that good. But I will bet they take it to us. If they don't, I will come in here and eat crow. And just to tinkle your fancy, I am more OK with us losing to Indiana than I ever would be in losing to Rutgers or Northwestern.