POLL: Do you want the Gophers to make the NCAA Tourney if it means Pitino returns for another season?

[ekeg0002]

The poll wording is tough because I can never say I'm rooting AGAINST the Gophers. That being said, I agree with many of the posters above. We need a change. Pitino is a great guy. Love his honesty and transparency, seems to care about the kids, do things the right way. And he's done a much better job of amassing talent, albeit a non-traditional way (mainly transfers). I have no issue with missing on the Suggs of the world because those are always a long shot, and if we get the Coffey and Oturu here and there, those are great 4* recruits. I think this team has the most talent from starters through the bench that we've seen in 15 years. What are we getting with it? The same pathetic non-competitive efforts on the road. You can visibly see in the body language that the players know there is no offensive scheme designed to get good shots, and it is up to them to create something on their own. Players like Carr get free reign because he can create his own shot. That will be Mashburn next year and going forward. Everyone else is resigned to standing around or trying to offensive rebound.

Because I haven't seen any improvement in the X's and O's from Pitino in 8 YEARS, it's time to go. If it takes missing out on the tournament to get that change, then I guess that's what I want, even if it doesn't feel right.

I want a Gopher team that always competes, home or road. I want a Gopher team that has an identity and is difficult to scheme for. Those things are coached.

 

[Bad Gopher]

And then he would have died and we would have been starting over right before a new season. Not sure given Flip's end, lamenting over not hiring him is the most astute move.

You totally missed the point.

 

[Bad Gopher]

The poll wording is tough because I can never say I'm rooting AGAINST the Gophers. That being said, I agree with many of the posters above. We need a change. Pitino is a great guy. Love his honesty and transparency, seems to care about the kids, do things the right way. And he's done a much better job of amassing talent, albeit a non-traditional way (mainly transfers). I have no issue with missing on the Suggs of the world because those are always a long shot, and if we get the Coffey and Oturu here and there, those are great 4* recruits. I think this team has the most talent from starters through the bench that we've seen in 15 years. What are we getting with it? The same pathetic non-competitive efforts on the road. You can visibly see in the body language that the players know there is no offensive scheme designed to get good shots, and it is up to them to create something on their own. Players like Carr get free reign because he can create his own shot. That will be Mashburn next year and going forward. Everyone else is resigned to standing around or trying to offensive rebound.

Because I haven't seen any improvement in the X's and O's from Pitino in 8 YEARS, it's time to go. If it takes missing out on the tournament to get that change, then I guess that's what I want, even if it doesn't feel right.

I want a Gopher team that always competes, home or road. I want a Gopher team that has an identity and is difficult to scheme for. Those things are coached.

The poll itself is nonsensical. Pitino already has the worst conference winning percentage of non-interim Gopher coaches since the one-and-done George Hanson, who resigned in shame, and you have to go back at least into the 40s or 50s or maybe further for a worse conference winning rate. No amount of cheering for his or his teams' success has changed that, and no amount of cheering against him will change the rest of the season. In a way, this poll and thread amount to attacking fans who only want this program to attain the success they know it has the potential for.

 

[Bayfieldgopher]

If you want Pitino around you're not a fan.

This has nothing to do about anything. If all you care about is their coach, then you are not a true fan. Its all about the players.

I care most about the players and that should be the focus. They work very hard and are committed to be the best they can be. For them to make the tourney would be a reward for their dedication and efforts.

Its the coaches job to best prepare the team each year so they can be successful. It seems that the NCAA is the bar. If so, then they have done their job. If not, then their job should be at risk.

 

[SanDiegoGopherFan]

There was a thread or article about this, Pitinos successful teams seem to be built around key transfers. I'm curious how other programs (not your duke or kentuckys of the world) who are consistently successful build their programs and culture.

 

[ekeg0002]

This has nothing to do about anything. If all you care about is their coach, then you are not a true fan. Its all about the players.

I care most about the players and that should be the focus. They work very hard and are committed to be the best they can be. For them to make the tourney would be a reward for their dedication and efforts.

Its the coaches job to best prepare the team each year so they can be successful. It seems that the NCAA is the bar. If so, then they have done their job. If not, then their job should be at risk.

The coach and players are intertwined. I can't ignore the coach and just say its all about the players. I'm going to argue that the best thing for the players is a coach who can put them in a position to win. They are working very hard and they all want to win, but they are limited by or lifted up by the system and rules and culture that Pitino has created.

A better coach gets more out of their abilities and allows them to be more successful, long term.

All of this "do we want to lose games now" is like asking if you want to go to the dentist. Do you want to go to the dentist, ever? Most people would say no. But we go to the dentist to have better dental health for the long term. If we lose games and the result is a better healthier program with a coach who can succeed for years and improve the overall trend of the program, I want that.

 

[WriterGoph]

You totally missed the point.

No, I didn't miss the point at all. You feel like Teague made a bad hire taking Pitino when he (possibly) could have had Flip. My point was that under the scenario if we hired Flip, our program would have been in a strange place of doing another coaching search in very short order. Bottom line, there is zero guarantee that if you make a coaching change, the program ends up in a better place.

 

[WriterGoph]

The poll itself is nonsensical. Pitino already has the worst conference winning percentage of non-interim Gopher coaches since the one-and-done George Hanson, who resigned in shame, and you have to back at least into the 40s or 50s or maybe further for a worse conference winning rate. No amount of cheering for his or his teams' success has changed that, and no amount of cheering against him will change the rest of the season. In a way, this poll and thread amount to attacking fans who only want this program to attain the success they know it has the potential for.

How is the thread non-sensical? You personally don't like it because it puts you in a weird place as a fan and having to admit that you may be actually rooting against your own team.

The thread has already garnered a ton of responses, so it's clearly relevant. Furthermore, it's pretty damn rare to see people literally complaining after we beat a very good Top 25 team. Go back to the Purdue game thread. It's not normal.

Our program is at a historic crossroads:

-- Tied for most ranked wins in the NATION
-- Tied for most ranked wins in SCHOOL HISTORY (even in a shortened season)
-- Winless on the road
-- Tourney fate still rests in the balance
-- COVID-impacted athletic budgets a factor

This poll couldn't have been more well-timed and more relevant. It created an emotional response from many people. Sorry that you seem to be uncomfortable having to justify your position and feel those emotions.

 

[Holy Man]

There was a thread or article about this, Pitinos successful teams seem to be built around key transfers. I'm curious how other programs (not your duke or kentuckys of the world) who are consistently successful build their programs and culture.

You have one very successful program in your back yard at San Diego State that has done it primarily through transfers. Texas Tech is another. It is more likely that more programs will be built that way going forward, changing the dynamics of the decision making process. The game has changed a lot on the court and off.

 

[GopherGangsta]

The poll itself is nonsensical. Pitino already has the worst conference winning percentage of non-interim Gopher coaches since the one-and-done George Hanson, who resigned in shame, and you have to back at least into the 40s or 50s or maybe further for a worse conference winning rate. No amount of cheering for his or his teams' success has changed that, and no amount of cheering against him will change the rest of the season. In a way, this poll and thread amount to attacking fans who only want this program to attain the success they know it has the potential for.

Hear Hear!

 

[BarnBurner]

Extremely fair analysis. I think there is a strong case to be made for a coaching change even if we make the tournament (and potentially win our first round game, depending on the circumstances) like what happened to Tubby. But I'm just not gonna hope for or celebrate losses to see that happen.

Ultimately, if the Gophers finish with a winning Big Ten record this year though, especially considering how many ranked wins that will include, I think there is probably an equally strong case to be made for giving him another year.

Go 4-1 with the remaining games? That is a big IF.

 

[BarnBurner]

How is the thread non-sensical? You personally don't like it because it puts you in a weird place as a fan and having to admit that you may be actually rooting against your own team.

The thread has already garnered a ton of responses, so it's clearly relevant. Furthermore, it's pretty damn rare to see people literally complaining after we beat a very good Top 25 team. Go back to the Purdue game thread. It's not normal.

Our program is at a historic crossroads:

-- Tied for most ranked wins in the NATION
-- Tied for most ranked wins in SCHOOL HISTORY (even in a shortened season)
-- Winless on the road
-- Tourney fate still rests in the balance
-- COVID-impacted athletic budgets a factor

This poll couldn't have been more well-timed and more relevant. It created an emotional response from many people. Sorry that you seem to be uncomfortable having to justify your position and feel those emotions.

The bolded is YOU, writer, going with rubbish. Very, very few posters on this board or Gopher fans in general root against the team. Just doesn't happen.

 

[tikited]

I look at any loss negatively because I want the team to always win. I do find a silver lining with any loss this season though. Sad but true.

 

[WriterGoph]

Go 4-1 with the remaining games? That is a big IF.

Yep, it is. That's why we play the games though, isn't it?

The bolded is YOU, writer, going with rubbish. Very, very few posters on this board or Gopher fans in general root against the team. Just doesn't happen.

Um, that's the beauty of polls. We have data to analyze. Right now, that data says that nearly 20% of the people on this board ARE cheering against the Gophers at some point - either now or in the tourney.

So, pal, pray tell, does 20% equal "just doesn't happen"?

 

[Bad Gopher]

How is the thread non-sensical? You personally don't like it because it puts you in a weird place as a fan and having to admit that you may be actually rooting against your own team.

The thread has already garnered a ton of responses, so it's clearly relevant. Furthermore, it's pretty damn rare to see people literally complaining after we beat a very good Top 25 team. Go back to the Purdue game thread. It's not normal.

Our program is at a historic crossroads:

-- Tied for most ranked wins in the NATION
-- Tied for most ranked wins in SCHOOL HISTORY (even in a shortened season)
-- Winless on the road
-- Tourney fate still rests in the balance
-- COVID-impacted athletic budgets a factor

This poll couldn't have been more well-timed and more relevant. It created an emotional response from many people. Sorry that you seem to be uncomfortable having to justify your position and feel those emotions.

You've created a straw-man fantasy that we're all rooting against our own team, and you're angry that nobody is and angry at the imaginary fans who are.

 

[Go Gophs]

I want them to win as many as they can. Have a good showing in the tourney. I cheer for them every game.

That said, I don't think they will win that much. And at this point, I would say this is a fair question as I believe if they make the dance, he stays, if they don't, he is gone.

I want better for the program though. I would like an identity and feel like we are building towards something. It just has not felt like that here through the Pitino era.

I don't think it makes you less of a fan to want something better or to want to move on from Richard. Aren't we sick of the mediocrity around here?

 

[BarnBurner]

Yep, it is. That's why we play the games though, isn't it?



Um, that's the beauty of polls. We have data to analyze. Right now, that data says that nearly 20% of the people on this board ARE cheering against the Gophers at some point - either now or in the tourney.

So, pal, pray tell, does 20% equal "just doesn't happen"?

So, pal, pray tell, very very few. And your poll is trash as most dont bother to answer. But use your DATA.....

 

[Bad Gopher]

No, I didn't miss the point at all. You feel like Teague made a bad hire taking Pitino when he (possibly) could have had Flip. My point was that under the scenario if we hired Flip, our program would have been in a strange place of doing another coaching search in very short order. Bottom line, there is zero guarantee that if you make a coaching change, the program ends up in a better place.

For the benefit of the dimwitted, my points:
1. Have a plan
2. If you don't have a plan, don't look a gift horse in the mouth

I'll add to that: it wouldn't be the buyer's fault if the gift horse is stricken with cancer after the purchase. You make an ass out of yourself by fantasy-blaming the U for 1) something that didn't happen and 2) that couldn't have been foreseen anyway.

 

[WriterGoph]

You've created a straw-man fantasy that we're all rooting against our own team, and you're angry that nobody is and angry at the imaginary fans who are.

Again, this is a purpose of the poll. I had nothing to do with the 20% who have admitted the current position they are in. Nothing "imaginary" about that. In fact, to do you one better, some of those 20% have actually explained their vote in writing in this thread. Or are those also "imaginary" posts?

 

[GopherGangsta]

The bolded is YOU, writer, going with rubbish. Very, very few posters on this board or Gopher fans in general root against the team. Just doesn't happen.

I root against Pitino....Have for the past 18 months or so....As an alumnus I have made that clear to Coyle on many occasion.

 

[ekeg0002]

Put this poll another way and I bet you get a different response.

"Would you sacrifice dozens of conference wins over the next 10 years, more consistent NCAA appearances and wins, top 4 finishes in the B10, etc. etc.... all for an NCAA appearance this year?"

Of course we don't know under what circumstances Pitino will be retained or let go. And none of those above accomplishments are guaranteed with a new coach, they've been hard to come by. But the chance is there, and I don't think there are many of us die-hards left that feel Pitino is close to turning the corner and achieving those things. I think we know what we have and it is mediocrity.

 

[DanvilleGopher]

I really do want these guys to make the NCAA and win as many games as possible. It will hurt if they do this year as they did 2 years ago and win 'enough' for him to retain his position.

That being said, the only way I think he should be retained is IF they were to make the Final Four and/or if they win it. I'd be willing to give him a lifetime contract if they won it since I know that won't happen. Even then (if he makes the final four) he should only get one more year. Pretty harsh but that's just how I feel due to my overall perception of his lack of coaching acumen. He's still coaching and enjoying a modicum of recruiting success based off his last name.

He's had enough years at this point to 'cut one's teeth'.

 

[BarnBurner]

I root against Pitino....Have for the past 18 months or so....As an alumnus I have made that clear to Coyle on many occasion.

Good for you.

 

[Dakota2]

Don't understand ...

Why so many believe making the tournament is the make or break line for firing or retaining the coach. Making the tournament from the Big Ten -- best overall conference with many of the best players in the country -- is not a great accomplishment.

Finishing in the upper tier of conference standings is a much better measurement by which to judge the coach. Pitino fails by that standard.

 

[WriterGoph]

Put this poll another way and I bet you get a different response.

"Would you sacrifice dozens of conference wins over the next 10 years, more consistent NCAA appearances and wins, top 4 finishes in the B10, etc. etc.... all for an NCAA appearance this year?"

Of course we don't know under what circumstances Pitino will be retained or let go. And none of those above accomplishments are guaranteed with a new coach, they've been hard to come by. But the chance is there, and I don't think there are many of us die-hards left that feel Pitino is close to turning the corner and achieving those things. I think we know what we have and it is mediocrity.

The poll was purposely specific to this year for the reasons laid out above in the thread. Obviously if we asked about the bigger picture it would clearly elicit different responses. An NCAA bid hangs in the balance, so it's interesting to see how much fans value the experience of seeing our team in the tourney vs. their feelings about the coach.

 

[GopherGangsta]

Don't understand ...

Why so many believe making the tournament is the make or break line for firing or retaining the coach. Making the tournament from the Big Ten -- best overall conference with many of the best players in the country -- is not a great accomplishment.

Finishing in the upper tier of conference standings is a much better measurement by which to judge the coach. Pitino fails by that standard.

This is what I have said to Writer for years and he has never grasped it...The 54-90 B10 record is the only stat that matters....He is all about Whataboutism .

 

[Go Gophs]

Furthermore, it's pretty damn rare to see people literally complaining after we beat a very good Top 25 team. Go back to the Purdue game thread. It's not normal.

If not for a fluke shot on bad execution of a non play schoolyard ball take, then they would have lost. That is why people didn't heap praise on them after this win.

P.S., not long ago, the Gophers were ranked near the top 10 and a team like Purdue would have been considered an almost LOCK WIN in a game on our home floor. Do we forget how we got to the place where Purdue came in here ranked and us not?

Sometimes I think you have a hard time seeing the forest through the trees. Its the body of work and how they got there that leads fans to want more or criticize a lucky win when it happens.

On top of that, when they come out and get slaughtered from jump street against Maryland, a team we should at least be competitive with on the road, it all the more justifies the line of thinking that the Purdue win, although a win, wasn't that impressive.

 

[tmvander]

Put this poll another way and I bet you get a different response.

"Would you sacrifice dozens of conference wins over the next 10 years, more consistent NCAA appearances and wins, top 4 finishes in the B10, etc. etc.... all for an NCAA appearance this year?"

Of course we don't know under what circumstances Pitino will be retained or let go. And none of those above accomplishments are guaranteed with a new coach, they've been hard to come by. But the chance is there, and I don't think there are many of us die-hards left that feel Pitino is close to turning the corner and achieving those things. I think we know what we have and it is mediocrity.

The answer to the poll would be too easy if you ask it that way.

 

[howeda7]

Although I voted for the first option with the substantial majority, there have been times in the past when I would have picked one of the others. At this point, Pitino is on a year-to-year contract in my mind. I hope the team gets to the tournament. If that happens and Pitino is retained, I'm all right with that as I feel he will have earned another year. But, unless the team goes on a run in the tournament, that's all he's earned in my mind. I can't see that happening because they're likely to be an 8th or 9th seed if they make it.

If the team fails to make the NCAA tournament but gets an NIT bid, I think the invitation should be accepted, Pitino should be fired, and the assistant coaches should lead the team in the NIT.

If he's not fired, he's likely to get another extension. The last one was two years ago. You can't send him out recruiting with 1-2 years left on his contract. That's why I think a move is more likely than some think.

 

[WriterGoph]

If not for a fluke shot on bad execution of a non play schoolyard ball take, then they would have lost. That is why people didn't heap praise on them after this win.

P.S., not long ago, the Gophers were ranked near the top 10 and a team like Purdue would have been considered an almost LOCK WIN in a game on our home floor. Do we forget how we got to the place where Purdue came in here ranked and us not?

Sometimes I think you have a hard time seeing the forest through the trees. Its the body of work and how they got there that leads fans to want more or criticize a lucky win when it happens.

On top of that, when they come out and get slaughtered from jump street against Maryland, a team we should at least be competitive with on the road, it all the more justifies the line of thinking that the Purdue win, although a win, wasn't that impressive.

I could say the same about you. The body of work is arguably stronger than its ever been:

- Most ranked wins in the nation
- Wins over two #1 seeds by double digits
- Winless on road BUT not a single "bad" loss (none to a team lower than Top 36 in NET)

As for the Purdue game, we still had to hit big shots and play great D to get into a position to win. So you can talk about a bank shot, but a bunch of good plays were made to win the game