Pitino's Buyout

[makemyday]

I've heard it's currently at 1.75mil. If Coyle waits until April 1 to fire him, it goes down to 1 mil. Can anyone varify this?

 

[Otis]

Yes, but then they have to pay him a $400k retainer bonus.

 

[howeda7]

I've heard it's currently at 1.75mil. If Coyle waits until April 1 to fire him, it goes down to 1 mil. Can anyone varify this?

Not April 1, April 30. And it goes from $1.75 to $1.5. But they have to pay him a $400K retention bonus the same day. It actually costs more if they wait then if they fire him now.

 

[bga1]

Musselman- 1.5 million buyout- negotiate to 2 mil to speed the date up from May 1. Pitino 1.35 million net buyout.
3.35 million total + 3 million x 5 years for Musselman contract = total 18.35 million deal.
Let's go.

 

[UpAndUnder43]

Musselman- 1.5 million buyout- negotiate to 2 mil to speed the date up from May 1. Pitino 1.35 million net buyout.
3.35 million total + 3 million x 5 years for Musselman contract = total 18.35 million deal.
Let's go.

It’ll take more than that to get Musselman here. $3 mil is a paycut with taxes and the raise he is due from Arkansas. Also, I don’t believe Musselman is coming here so moot point.

 

[Section2]

it’s not going to be Musselman.

 

[2nd Degree Gopher]

In an ideal world, Pitino finds another job and leaves voluntarily before we have to fire him, but the timing, his termination buyout and his resume make that unlikely. If he does find another job, I would think that Coyle would waive the buyout on his contract (which I think is $500K).

 

[Stan]

Musselman- 1.5 million buyout- negotiate to 2 mil to speed the date up from May 1. Pitino 1.35 million net buyout.
3.35 million total + 3 million x 5 years for Musselman contract = total 18.35 million deal.
Let's go.

In.

 

[PMWinSTP]

It’ll take more than that to get Musselman here. $3 mil is a paycut with taxes and the raise he is due from Arkansas. Also, I don’t believe Musselman is coming here so moot point.

Serious question, how much did you look into the state taxes difference?

 

[UpAndUnder43]

Serious question, how much did you look into the state taxes difference?

I googled “arkansas state income tax” and “Minnesota state income tax” and did a little math. There’s is about 3.5% lower I think. Unless I got bad info from Google. 3.5% on $3 mil buys the kids winter boots, hats, gloves, etc.

 

[2nd Degree Gopher]

Musselman- 1.5 million buyout- negotiate to 2 mil to speed the date up from May 1. Pitino 1.35 million net buyout.
3.35 million total + 3 million x 5 years for Musselman contract = total 18.35 million deal.
Let's go.

Even if Arkansas would agree to negotiate the buyout on Musselman's contract, it would probably be more than $2M. Say they agree to split it at $2.75M. Add that to the $1.75M they owe Pitino to buyout his contract and you are at $4.5M. (The saved retention bonus doesn't reduce the size of the check that you are going to have to write Pitino.) Then you would have to give Musselman a raise from the $2.6M (or so) that he's due under his contract for next year at Arkansas. Even ignoring the fact that they seem to love him in Fayetteville and would likely agree to sweeten his deal, it would take more than 5 years at $3M per to get him to jump. I would guess it would be more like 6 years and $21M to get him to even consider making a move.

If Coyle could put together that kind of money in this market, God bless him, but I don't think that's in the cards.

 

[Gopherbbdude]

I saw this yesterday

 

[PMWinSTP]

I googled “arkansas state income tax” and “Minnesota state income tax” and did a little math. There’s is about 3.5% lower I think. Unless I got bad info from Google. 3.5% on $3 mil buys the kids winter boots, hats, gloves, etc.

It's probably not as big as you might think given Arkansas has the third highest state/local sales tax rates in the country.

 

[UpAndUnder43]

It's probably not as big as you might think given Arkansas has the third highest state/local sales tax rates in the country.

Local sales tax doesnt matter for income. I have no idea how much Musselman spends. I put him in highest tax rate for both states. Sales tax also depends on where you buy. Duluth has a ~11% sales tax. That is substantial when buying a car (I believe all car dealerships are in bordering towns) Seemed reasonable to just do state income taxes.

Income Tax Rates By State 2022 - Tax-Rates.org

www.tax-rates.org

 

[tjgopher]

$21M

If Coyle could put together that kind of money in this market, God bless him, but I don't think that's in the cards.

The good news is he doesn't have to put $21 million together all at once tomorrow morning.

And, much of that $21 million is luckily already in the general operating budget currently at $2.5 million per year under the category of head coach's salary. So, the increase in salary isn't that significant, especially because I don't believe it would take $3.5m to get Musselman here as you do. 6yr/$18m probably enough.

Basically, you proposed $21m salary and $4.5m buyouts which is $25.5 total over six years, Coyle currently has budgeted $2.5 m for a head coach. So, over the next six years that is $15 million. So, you'd be talking about an additional $1.7m per year over the next six years to what is already in the budget. And, I think you're way high on $21m salary to get him. If its $18 million salary, then you're talking an additional $1.25 million per year over the next six years. Ticket revenue and winning alone could help make that up if people get really excited to buy tickets and he wins.

That said, Coyle could be very, very tempted to go the other way and drop the head coach's salary budget from $2.5m to $1.75m, hire Medved or Smith at a much lower buyout, and save the department boatloads of money.

 

[2nd Degree Gopher]

The good news is he doesn't have to put $21 million together all at once tomorrow morning.

And, much of that $21 million is luckily already in the general operating budget currently at $2.5 million per year under the category of head coach's salary. So, the increase in salary isn't that significant, especially because I don't believe it would take $3.5m to get Musselman here as you do. 6yr/$18m probably enough.

Basically, you proposed $21m salary and $4.5m buyouts which is $25.5 total over six years, Coyle currently has budgeted $2.5 m for a head coach. So, over the next six years that is $15 million. So, you'd be talking about an additional $1.7m per year over the next six years to what is already in the budget. And, I think you're way high on $21m salary to get him. If its $18 million salary, then you're talking an additional $1.25 million per year over the next six years. Ticket revenue and winning alone could help make that up if people get really excited to buy tickets and he wins.

That said, Coyle could be very, very tempted to go the other way and drop the head coach's salary budget from $2.5m to $1.75m, hire Medved or Smith at a much lower buyout, and save the department boatloads of money.

I think the problem is more the $7M or $8M or whatever it is in the next year rather than $18M or $25M or whatever over 5 or 6 years. Where does that money come from?

If Musselman really wants to be here, your numbers could be closer than mine. From a pure “how much does it cost to hire away a hot commodity coach already making $2.5M+ at a big time program” standpoint, I think I am in the ballpark.

 

[GopherWeatherGuy]

Musselman- 1.5 million buyout- negotiate to 2 mil to speed the date up from May 1. Pitino 1.35 million net buyout.
3.35 million total + 3 million x 5 years for Musselman contract = total 18.35 million deal.
Let's go.

Why would Arkansas negotiate themselves out of money, and a head coach that currently has them ranked the highest they've been in 23 years?

 

[tikited]

Just get Dutcher. We already know he wants to be here and the cost won't hurt as much as Muss.

 

[howeda7]

Why would Arkansas negotiate themselves out of money, and a head coach that currently has them ranked the highest they've been in 23 years?

Because then they will be doing a coaching search in May and only end up with $1.5 million.

 

[GopherWeatherGuy]

Because then they will be doing a coaching search in May and only end up with $1.5 million.

There's a better chance they use that money to price Musselman out of our league. This is why the chances of Musselman being the Gophers next coach are slim to none.

The Gophers aren't waiting until May.

 

[builtbadgers]

Arkansas will not be afraid to up him to 4 million. Walton loves his basketball.

 

[bga1]

Why would Arkansas negotiate themselves out of money, and a head coach that currently has them ranked the highest they've been in 23 years?

If he wants to come here. If it is only about money- we are toast.

 

[2nd Degree Gopher]

Just get Dutcher. We already know he wants to be here and the cost won't hurt as much as Muss.

Yeah, I was originally cool on Dutch because of his age, but the more I think about the numbers the more willing I am consider him. He's making about $1M this year and his contract averages about $1.3M per year over 5 years. We could buy him out of his SDSU contract for $1M and double his salary without breaking the bank. Even if he only wants to be here 5 years, we'd have time where he'd hopefully put the program on a better path and have us in a good position to nab a "better" long-term prospect in the next hire.

 

[tikited]

Yeah, I was originally cool on Dutch because of his age, but the more I think about the numbers the more willing I am consider him. He's making about $1M this year and his contract averages about $1.3M per year over 5 years. We could buy him out of his SDSU contract for $1M and double his salary without breaking the bank. Even if he only wants to be here 5 years, we'd have time where he'd hopefully put the program on a better path and have us in a good position to nab a "better" long-term prospect in the next hire.

Exactly, although I think he could coach up to 10 years if he is good at his job. He's really not that old (61).

 

[MinnGopher]

I wouldn't necessarily mind Dutcher, but he does kind of have a weird resume. Guy is 61 with 4 years of head coaching experience, while not having left Cali since arriving in '99. At the same time, he has won at Michigan and SDSU as associate head coach, and he's been under Steve Fischer who is a damn good coach. The success the last 4 years is obviously appealing too.

 

[UpAndUnder43]

Why would Arkansas negotiate themselves out of money, and a head coach that currently has them ranked the highest they've been in 23 years?

I agree with you. But I think if he is leaving anyway they are better off to make it quick, get some $$$ and find their new coach. They don’t want to be without a head coach into mid-late April either.

 

[UpAndUnder43]

Just get Dutcher. We already know he wants to be here and the cost won't hurt as much as Muss.

Why would we settle? That is absolutely insane if you think Muss is better. This isn’t our money. Coyle knows the budget better than anyone.

 

[MplsGopher]

Why would we settle?

Settle, in what sense? It has been proposed that Muss has zero actual interest in coming here, and is just (or will just) use the (upcoming) opening to get more money out of Ark.

 

[2nd Degree Gopher]

Why would we settle? That is absolutely insane if you think Muss is better. This isn’t our money. Coyle knows the budget better than anyone.

You are right, Coyle knows the budget better than anyone, but what makes you think he has the money to hire Muss or anyone who would cost that much? To answer your question, the reason we would "settle" is because we don't have the money for somebody more expensive.

 

[UpAndUnder43]

Settle, in what sense? It has been proposed that Muss has zero actual interest in coming here, and is just (or will just) use the (upcoming) opening to get more money out of Ark.

OP said to just hire Dutcher because it costs less. That is settling.

And its also been proposed Muss wants to be here. No one knows what will transpire.