Pitino on Hollins "Hes not an elite, elite player & I dont think hes ever going to be

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60's Guy said:
I'm curious about what you need to be to be considered an elite coach? One NCAA title or more than one?
One NIT title or are you penalized for that? Could it be one state title or would more than one qualify?
Can you be elite in your mind in your third year as a head coach? Could you be an elite coach as an assistant?

I'm surprised more people don't see the scaricity of playing talent versus blaming the coaching strategy.
Curious about that.

Also curious why some believe Pitino is a bad person and Hollins is a good person? They both seem like
pretty good people to me but if I was forced to choose who I want in a foxhole with me...I'll take Pitino.
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I am pretty sure no one is going to argue about lack of team depth. However, who did we lose from the team from last year? Austin and Oto. Pitino struck out recruiting last year with our only viable big transferring. Konate and Diedeau (sp?) are projects. I think most people figured the rest of the team would improve, not regress and it sure looks like this team has gone backwards. If you do not think it has anything to do with coaching that is your opinion.

However, I just am not sold that any coach is going to be able to build a consistent top 20 team here until we get our facilities upgraded. Recruiting is going to suffer until it gets done and we will continue to have these thrilling debates about talent versus coaching.
 

cncmin said:
Honestly, Hollins is not an all-over-the-court defender. Pitino is forcing him to be one, and Hollins is not only out of his comfort zone, but he looks fatigued as well. He's playing too fast for his style, which is more methodical. This is more of a case where Pitino is implementing a system and everyone is to fit into it - damned be the talent. Jerry Kill did the same thing. Those kind of transitions tend not to have much success in the short term, but in the long term, they tend to be more successful. We continue to - quite obviously - be in a transition period.
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This. Hiring Pitino has not been a positive thing for Hollins and his style of play. A casualty of system changes.
 

One thing I've noticed is his explosive vertical has diminished since his first injury. Whether it be on a jump shot or driving the lane which we rarely see anymore.
 

tikited said:
This. Hiring Pitino has not been a positive thing for Hollins and his style of play. A casualty of system changes.
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Or...Tubby so thoroughly broke Hollins love for the game that even Coach Pitino has been unable to bring it back...

More realistically, I would suggest that Hollins has lost a lot of quickness due to the hip injury he received last year. He opted out of surgery, but he has never really gained the explosion or vertical that he had previous to the hip injury. Hollins seems like a great person. I suspect that he does well with his life after basketball.

In the meantime, Andre gives his best effort, whatever that entails, and we thank him for the work he's put in.
 

Tim1406 said:
His regression has coincided with his move to shooting guard... along with the loss of Trevor and Rodney Williams
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Coincides with not having a power forward inside! Joey King or Mbakwe hmmm.

This team would be a top 20 team with a "Mbakwe like" playing PF.
 



Mbakwe would help. But we arent a top 20 team with the guard play we currently have. Be it a slump or a regression. The 3 seniors not named Mo have really layed lots of eggs this year.


Hammer em' said:
Coincides with not having a power forward inside! Joey King or Mbakwe hmmm.

This team would be a top 20 team with a "Mbakwe like" playing PF.
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Andre's lack of ability to get to the FT line is evidence he's just not right physically.

Sophomore: 4.1 FTA/gm
Junior: 4.9 FTA/gm
Senior: 2.4 FTA/gm

His ability to beat his man off the dribble and get into the lane is basically non-existent right now. That hasn't always been the case. It really is too bad how injuries have taken a toll on him. They basically wiped away any chance of him becoming "elite" IMO. It's good to see he still gives max effort. I'll always be an Andre Hollins fan.
 



SelectionSunday said:
Nothing nefarious or secretive! Just wanted to communicate with TJ 1 to 1. That's what PM boxes are for, no?
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It appears that tj errantly determined that since you view Hollins as a potentially more "elite person" that it made tj and perhaps other think that Pitino is a bad guy. I don't think that's what you intended as there is a vast continuum that runs between the words elite and bad. Hollins does appear to be an elite individual in terms of character. I love Pitino as a coach and think he has great potential. I would agree that there are a few things he could clean up as he matures. Hollins is a tough person to compare anyone to in terms of character from all appearances. He sets a high bar IMO.
 


jaymil said:
Andre's lack of ability to get to the FT line is evidence he's just not right physically.

Sophomore: 4.1 FTA/gm
Junior: 4.9 FTA/gm
Senior: 2.4 FTA/gm

His ability to beat his man off the dribble and get into the lane is basically non-existent right now. That hasn't always been the case. It really is too bad how injuries have taken a toll on him. They basically wiped away any chance of him becoming "elite" IMO. It's good to see he still gives max effort. I'll always be an Andre Hollins fan.
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He always did his best work with the ball in his hands imo. He'd bring the ball up court and push it to the basket using his strengh, more than his quickness, but more more often he'd zig-zig around bodies and shoot jumpers off of screens/picks or feign driving to the basket and pull up, etc. Now he's being asked to run around in circles without the ball and beat his man to a spot on the floor for a quick jumper. He has a hard time getting open like that because he's usually less quick than the guy guarding him. My .02
 

I broke down Andres' game on here two years ago when everybody thought he was going to be a lottery pick. My analysis was pre injury. I stated that he was not athletic enough nor had the point guard skills to be elite for his size. He is boxy and not quick enough on defense or offense. He does not appear to have an adequate wingspan and is a below average ball handler. Tubby constructed a system to mask his weakness and promoted his ability to shoot the ball. I never thought that he was more than an average 2 guard that is too small and not athletic enough for next level. He should have supported Tubby who created the mirage.
 



jumpstop said:
I broke down Andres' game on here two years ago when everybody thought he was going to be a lottery pick. My analysis was pre injury. I stated that he was not athletic enough nor had the point guard skills to be elite for his size. He is boxy and not quick enough on defense or offense. He does not appear to have an adequate wingspan and is a below average ball handler. Tubby constructed a system to mask his weakness and promoted his ability to shoot the ball. I never thought that he was more than an average 2 guard that is too small and not athletic enough for next level. He should have supported Tubby who created the mirage.
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Not "everybody" here thought we was going to be a lottery pick. I agree with your analysis and have said all along that the only way he would make NBA is to become a point guard. Many have said he is a "natural" off-guard. I think that is code for "not a great ballhandler or playmaker, but can shoot, drive and get to the FT line." Also, his defense has never been his strength, especially against quick PGs. I also believe he has been hampered by injury, perhaps irreparably. It happens.

Before everyone jumps down our throats, I'm guessing jumpstop agrees with me that he is an outstanding young man and I've never questioned his effort.
 

jumpstop said:
I broke down Andres' game on here two years ago when everybody thought he was going to be a lottery pick. My analysis was pre injury. I stated that he was not athletic enough nor had the point guard skills to be elite for his size. He is boxy and not quick enough on defense or offense. He does not appear to have an adequate wingspan and is a below average ball handler. Tubby constructed a system to mask his weakness and promoted his ability to shoot the ball. I never thought that he was more than an average 2 guard that is too small and not athletic enough for next level. He should have supported Tubby who created the mirage.
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Back of the line bro. You weren't the only one who thought the 'Dre leaving early for the NBA' talk was nonsense. He was much better fit in Tubby's offense as you point out. He probably should have transferred when Pitino took over.
 

GopherJake said:
Not "everybody" here thought we was going to be a lottery pick. I agree with your analysis and have said all along that the only way he would make NBA is to become a point guard. Many have said he is a "natural" off-guard. I think that is code for "not a great ballhandler or playmaker, but can shoot, drive and get to the FT line." Also, his defense has never been his strength, especially against quick PGs. I also believe he has been hampered by injury, perhaps irreparably. It happens.

Before everyone jumps down our throats, I'm guessing jumpstop agrees with me that he is an outstanding young man and I've never questioned his effort.
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Underrated post.
 

Dre is what he is. A good player that at times played great. He was the main ball handler and shooter for 2 years so he had a green light and was comfortable
 

Costa Rican Gopher said:
He always did his best work with the ball in his hands imo. He'd bring the ball up court and push it to the basket using his strengh, more than his quickness, but more more often he'd zig-zig around bodies and shoot jumpers off of screens/picks or feign driving to the basket and pull up, etc. Now he's being asked to run around in circles without the ball and beat his man to a spot on the floor for a quick jumper. He has a hard time getting open like that because he's usually less quick than the guy guarding him. My .02
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What exactly are his injuries? I know he badly messed up his ankle when the UW guard Gasser undercut him during a jumpshot, but should that not be better by now? I have heard about turf toe now, but is there something else?

I do not doubt that he is not ok because he is again moving like a 40 year old again, much like after the ankle injury for the remainder of last year.

Based upon the way he was moving on the court on Tuesday, they might has well shut him down for a month and go the other two guards for as many minutes as they can handle and play the other role players when needed. Hollins is not helping himself or the team by trying to play through whatever is impacting him.

This sort of reminds me of watching Jayson Walton trying to play after his chronic knee problems took away most of his once great leaping ability his senior year, back in the Voshon L era.
 

oak_street1981 said:
What exactly are his injuries? I know he badly messed up his ankle when the UW guard Gasser undercut him during a jumpshot, but should that not be better by now? I have heard about turf toe now, but is there something else?

I do not doubt that he is not ok because he is again moving like a 40 year old again, much like after the ankle injury for the remainder of last year.

Based upon the way he was moving on the court on Tuesday, they might has well shut him down for a month and go the other two guards for as many minutes as they can handle and play the other role players when needed. Hollins is not helping himself or the team by trying to play through whatever is impacting him.

This sort of reminds me of watching Jayson Walton trying to play after his chronic knee problems took away most of his once great leaping ability his senior year, back in the Voshon L era.
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He's battled hip injuries over his career also.
 


oak_street1981 said:
What exactly are his injuries? I know he badly messed up his ankle when the UW guard Gasser undercut him during a jumpshot, but should that not be better by now? I have heard about turf toe now, but is there something else?

I do not doubt that he is not ok because he is again moving like a 40 year old again, much like after the ankle injury for the remainder of last year.

Based upon the way he was moving on the court on Tuesday, they might has well shut him down for a month and go the other two guards for as many minutes as they can handle and play the other role players when needed. Hollins is not helping himself or the team by trying to play through whatever is impacting him.

This sort of reminds me of watching Jayson Walton trying to play after his chronic knee problems took away most of his once great leaping ability his senior year, back in the Voshon L era.
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The Jayson Walton comparison is a great one; he was never again the same player. In the days of preseason magazines, my recollection was that he was at least top 50 coming out of high school.

The douchy move by the Wisconsin player definitely impacted Dre. People can say that it was legal but you don't move that far under someone who is shooting a jump shot because you don't want the same thing done to you!!!
 

SelectionSunday said:
Nothing nefarious or secretive! Just wanted to communicate with TJ 1 to 1. That's what PM boxes are for, no?
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Sure. PM me for what I really think of Tubby Smith, Kris Humphries and Kim K's butt.
You do know you could just PM him your thoughts without creating the intrigue.
Let me guess:
You're not happy with the hire. He's a punk kid in an elite league with coaches better suited to be his father's colleagues than his own, who's ridden to the top on his name. You agree with his father that he needs to develop humility and wish we'd gotten someone who'd been tried and tested somewhere else and your favorite color is blue. Or red.
How close am I?
 

Pitino didn't say Hollins was not an elite player. He said he was not an elite, elite player. He's a great young man who's too smart to think his future is in the NBA.
He might go the Adam Boone route, which is to make some money in Europe, come back and get a great job with that great degree he's getting and have a family and a great life (we met the Boone's on a BB trip and have been getting updates for years).
 


Moonlight said:
Sure. PM me for what I really think of Tubby Smith, Kris Humphries and Kim K's butt.
You do know you could just PM him your thoughts without creating the intrigue.
Let me guess:
You're not happy with the hire. He's a punk kid in an elite league with coaches better suited to be his father's colleagues than his own, who's ridden to the top on his name. You agree with his father that he needs to develop humility and wish we'd gotten someone who'd been tried and tested somewhere else and your favorite color is blue. Or red.
How close am I?
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+1000
 



Andre clearly is nowhere near 100%. What I noticed on at least two occasions (specifically the OSU game) was after he hit the floor, he got to his feet the "old man" way. ... very deliberately, and with some thought. Not sure whether it's his ankle, hip, grind of the season, and/or none of the above, but the way he's moving around doesn't indicate a healthy player. The dude has some guts, and there's little doubt he's giving his coaches, teammates, and the fans all he's got.
 

jumpstop said:
I broke down Andres' game on here two years ago when everybody thought he was going to be a lottery pick. My analysis was pre injury. I stated that he was not athletic enough nor had the point guard skills to be elite for his size. He is boxy and not quick enough on defense or offense. He does not appear to have an adequate wingspan and is a below average ball handler. Tubby constructed a system to mask his weakness and promoted his ability to shoot the ball. I never thought that he was more than an average 2 guard that is too small and not athletic enough for next level. He should have supported Tubby who created the mirage.
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When did anyone, let alone "everybody", think Hollins was going to be a lottery pick?
 

Whats the salary cap implications if we just cut him because he obviously sucks.
 

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