PiPress: Gophers football: Philip Nelson is no shoo-in to start next season

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Bayfieldgopher said:
This will still be a young squad where true Fr. & RSFr can earn PT. QB is just another one of those positions. I would rather take our chances on Strevelar being a backup, or starter, if needed versus tying up a scholarship with a JUCO QB who would still be unproven at the BIG level. If everyone stays healthy and on the squad, 2014 could be a year when we finally have improved depth.
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+1
 

maroon and gold said:
Oh, I get it. What sense of urgency?? For Kill to retain his job?? It now appears that the snakepit that is GH is willing to do anything to win .... not for the grand and glorious U, but for "Aw Shucks You Know" Kill. If I was a player of any talent, I would stay as far away as possible from a school that appears to be this desperate.
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One of the worst takes I've ever heard on here and that is saying something. I'm sure Kill would rather RS everyone as well. But he has pressure from fans to win now. 'We' and most other fan bases don't have the patience to wait 5 years. Otherwise he'll being getting boo'd and fire Kill chants will start just like the fire Mason and fire Brewster chants did. Get off your high horse.
 

wait!what? said:
P. Nelson was barely mediocre for the season after the Purdue game. plenty of upside but i can see that Shorts saw the mediocrity getting rewarded and said 'im gone'
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In what way was mediocrity being rewarded? Shortell was barely mediocre as well and he got benched. He had plenty of opportunities to show how good he was. He didn't get it done, so it was time to move onto the younger player. It's pretty simple.
 

maroon and gold said:
Oh, I get it. What sense of urgency?? For Kill to retain his job?? It now appears that the snakepit that is GH is willing to do anything to win .... not for the grand and glorious U, but for "Aw Shucks You Know" Kill. If I was a player of any talent, I would stay as far away as possible from a school that appears to be this desperate.
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Every school in an AQ BCS conference that is not currently winning is desperate to win. You don't have to agree with it but it's a fact. In this day and age a new coach cannot come in and plan to start winning in year 7, especially not in a spoiled, pro-minded sports market like MN.

The challenge today is building a program geared for long term success while having one breakout season in the first four years. If you don't have a breakout season in the first four you'll be fired (Wacker, Brewster). If you do, you'll be around for a while (Mason).
 

GophersInIowa said:
In what way was mediocrity being rewarded? Shortell was barely mediocre as well and he got benched. He had plenty of opportunities to show how good he was. He didn't get it done, so it was time to move onto the younger player. It's pretty simple.
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exactly. Poor performance keeps one off the field. Then, as the season was wrapping up it became more about gaining experience and less about performance. (spectators opinion -cuz there is a shtload of behind the scenes stuff)
 


stevedave23 said:
Every school in an AQ BCS conference that is not currently winning is desperate to win. You don't have to agree with it but it's a fact. In this day and age a new coach cannot come in and plan to start winning in year 7, especially not in a spoiled, pro-minded sports market like MN.

The challenge today is building a program geared for long term success while having one breakout season in the first four years. If you don't have a breakout season in the first four you'll be fired (Wacker, Brewster). If you do, you'll be around for a while (Mason).
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Wacker got 6 years at the U of M however if he had been coaching today he would have been fired much sooner than he was.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/ncaaf--grading-college-football-s-coaching-hires-032523953.html

According to that story there have been 54 D1 coaching changes in the last 2 years alone. Granted not all of those are due to firing but there is no doubt we are in an era of win quick or get fired, and the leash keeps on getting shorter and shorter.
 

My rose-colored opinion, and another reason I think Streveler will play next year, a lot.

It wouldn't surprise me if Kill has had his eye on Streveler even longer than Nelson. Coaching in the state of Illinois, Kill knowing what type of offense he typically runs, he could/should have had his eye on Streveler for the last 2-3 years. With Nelson in MN, especially since he committed so early, Kill had likely seen a lot less of Nelson even though Nelson is a year older.

The optimist in me says that Kill has had Streveler tabbed as his next "franchise QB" for a few years now, going back to his days at NIU. Let's hope he's THAT good.
 

pharmacygopher said:
One of the worst takes I've ever heard on here and that is saying something. I'm sure Kill would rather RS everyone as well. But he has pressure from fans to win now. 'We' and most other fan bases don't have the patience to wait 5 years. Otherwise he'll being getting boo'd and fire Kill chants will start just like the fire Mason and fire Brewster chants did. Get off your high horse.
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As important as keeping fans on the bandwagon is, signing talented players is job one. Getting to a bowl game this year has been mentioned by more than one recruit as a reason why they committed to Minnesota. Without good recruits, Kill can kiss his job goodbye. At this level of football if a player is needed to win now, he won't be a redshirt.
 

C'mon! Fess up. The vast majority of projected superstars posted on this board end up being mediocre conference players that end up on the honorable mentions column. Nelson had a bad year because his line was so beat up by the end of the season that it was being held together by bubble gum and bubble gum wrappers. We ran out of duct tape and bandages.
 



MNVCGUY said:
This is the issue not whether or not he redshirts next season. How about we wait until:

A) The Kid signs a LOI
B) Shows up on campus
C) Demonstates some abiltiy at the COLLEGE level
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Well that would be something new here. I wonder what that chance of that happening? Has to be pretty good since patience and facts are the core competencies of this blog.
 

With our offensive system, due to how much Limey likes to run those qb draws, you need as many healthy qb's as you can get. Would not surprise me to see Nelson, Liedner and Streveler all see snaps in 2013, may the best man win
 

Dean S said:
C'mon! Fess up. The vast majority of projected superstars posted on this board end up being mediocre conference players that end up on the honorable mentions column. Nelson had a bad year because his line was so beat up by the end of the season that it was being held together by bubble gum and bubble gum wrappers. We ran out of duct tape and bandages.
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I agree with this.

Another huge part of it that we sometimes forget is that he was a true freshman. Even if he had a mediocore OL and mediocore WRs around him last year, I would have expected him to struggle. I am as big of a Nelson fan as anyone on this board, but to think a kid can go from playing HS football in Mankato, MN to being a good Big 10 QB in 9 months is crazy.
 

bemidjigopher said:
With our offensive system, due to how much Limey likes to run those qb draws, you need as many healthy qb's as you can get. Would not surprise me to see Nelson, Liedner and Streveler all see snaps in 2013, may the best man win
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Ultimately, we may have to move away from this strategy. At schools with less brutal schedules, a couple factors come into play:

1.) Smaller and slower players on the defense lead to less injuries for the main QB;
2.) In less talented divisions, there is a greater margin of error for the back up QBs.

I do not want to abandon a running threat from the QB, and as the traditional running game progresses we should naturally move away from being so reliant upon it. However, we do need to emphasize the health of our QBs.
 



I think it is a positive article on Gopher football talking about a good recruit. Nothing wrong with that!
 

hyaluronic said:
Ultimately, we may have to move away from this strategy. At schools with less brutal schedules, a couple factors come into play:

1.) Smaller and slower players on the defense lead to less injuries for the main QB;
2.) In less talented divisions, there is a greater margin of error for the back up QBs.

I do not want to abandon a running threat from the QB, and as the traditional running game progresses we should naturally move away from being so reliant upon it. However, we do need to emphasize the health of our QBs.
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I agree we either need to move away from the strategy or keep two viable quarterbacks available at all times. I remember watching the Wild last year, the team started hot, but they did it with a very aggressive and physical forechecking scheme. They ended up with virtually every key player missing significant time to injury over the course of the season and absolutely tanking. I remember thinking to myself, they either need a new system, a deeper farm system, or more durable players (and I don't think the Wild's personnel were lacking for toughness). Same thing with a QB draw heavy offense against B1G linebackers. We can use the system, but we are going to need to become comfortable with the fact that we need multiple QB's able to put in significant time, or find one incredibly durable quarterback.
 

bleedsmaroonandgold said:
I like this mentality. I hate it when a team at any level comes into camp with a presumptive starter at any position. I want everyone to have to start with a clean slate and earn it. Even in the case of someone like Adrian Peterson, if they are the clear number one, then they should have no problem winning the job in a fair tryout against the rest of the backs on the team.
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Well said. This is especially true at the QB position. A "appointed" leader will seldom ever become then "true" leader of a team.
 

harrys ghost said:
If you guys are buying anything Marcus is selling in regards to quarterback controversies, I am sure I can find a few bridges you would like to buy as well.
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I disagree! There will be an open competition..........until the first Wednesday of February.:cool:
 

My mom is convinced that Danny obrien never cared about playing ball but instead went after a free grad school scholarship. interesting take on how some students could 'play' a school for a free education.
 

Dean S said:
C'mon! Fess up. The vast majority of projected superstars posted on this board end up being mediocre conference players that end up on the honorable mentions column. Nelson had a bad year because his line was so beat up by the end of the season that it was being held together by bubble gum and bubble gum wrappers. We ran out of duct tape and bandages.
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I would also add; losing the best receiver on the team and making his debut during the Big Ten schedule versus getting the benefit of confidence building patsies. Folks need to except two things.

1. This team will be really bad next season. The last two seasons, the best players have graduated or transferred. Not to mention the big ten can't be as bad as it was this year.

2. The team is built for a successfull 2014 season when finally the the best players will be returning from the previous season.
 

Sportsfan24 said:
Well said. This is especially true at the QB position. A "appointed" leader will seldom ever become then "true" leader of a team.
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Wow, I never would have guessed you felt that way...

IMO, M. Gray was without a doubt a leader of last years team.
 

wait!what? said:
My mom is convinced that Danny obrien never cared about playing ball but instead went after a free grad school scholarship. interesting take on how some students could 'play' a school for a free education.
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Was it your mom, or your mom's best friend?
 

Sportsfan24 said:
I would also add; losing the best receiver on the team and making his debut during the Big Ten schedule versus getting the benefit of confidence building patsies. Folks need to except two things.

1. This team will be really bad next season. The last two seasons, the best players have graduated or transferred. Not to mention the big ten can't be as bad as it was this year.

2. The team is built for a successfull 2014 season when finally the the best players will be returning from the previous season.
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I agree 100%. I think we will be very fortunate to get 6 wins next year. But what if that Oline really does improve and we have a running game next year?
 

Sportsfan24 said:
I would also add; losing the best receiver on the team and making his debut during the Big Ten schedule versus getting the benefit of confidence building patsies. Folks need to except two things.

1. This team will be really bad next season. The last two seasons, the best players have graduated or transferred. Not to mention the big ten can't be as bad as it was this year.

2. The team is built for a successfull 2014 season when finally the the best players will be returning from the previous season.
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Agree on point 2 for the most part, although it's been my contention for some time that they're SOMEWHAT built for NEXT year. Agreed, they will be even better in 2014 than they will next year.

But one point 1, I disagree completely. First, I do NOT think they will be bad. The struggles this year were almost entirely due to having just way too much youth and inexperience on the offensive line. They return every O-Lineman that played a down in 2012 and each and every one of them will be another year older, stronger, and more experienced.

I don't totally agree on the strength of the conference either. Yes, perhaps on a national level the conference won't be as "bad" as a WHOLE, especially with Ohio State being once again eligible for post season play. OSU essentially being a non-factor played a BIG role in how the conference was perceived.

But looking at the Gophers schedule, which is all that matters in determining how good of a season the Gophers will have, I don't agree that it will be significantly harder than 2012;

Iowa, Penn State, Michigan all lose Senior starting QB's to graduation and at Wisky the position is largely unsettled. Everyone except perhaps Indiana (and maybe Wisky if Frederick stays) experience significant losses to graduation on the O-Line.

The cumulative turnover of the coaching staff over the last 3 years at Wisky will continue to take it's toll. They return enough players in 2013 that they'll field a solid team (but beatable for the Gophers at TCF next year), but with the mass departures on the staff, the days of winning BT Championships are ancient history.

The sanctions/penalties at Penn State will start to take their toll next year as well. In 2012, it made sense for many of the Seniors to stick around and play out the season. The recruiting and scholarship limitations will start to hit them in 2013, but will hit them the hardest in 2014 and 2015. Next year, with the game at TCF, it's a game the Gophers can win.

I think two road games will determine just HOW strong of a season the Gophers will have next year; Indiana and Northwestern. They HAVE to win one of those; if they can win both, they can win 8 or 9 games next year.
 

Good points Ogee. PSU and Wisconsin could both see a drop off. I was thinking IU might be a 4-4 team in the big ten next year, but didn't realize their Oline was senior heavy (and probably a reason they played well offensively at times this year).
 


nokomismod said:
Good points Ogee. PSU and Wisconsin could both see a drop off. I was thinking IU might be a 4-4 team in the big ten next year, but didn't realize their Oline was senior heavy (and probably a reason they played well offensively at times this year).
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In terms of B1G record, Kill better make headway next year, and not count on 2014. The 2013 schedule has Iowa, Nebraska and Wisky at home and in 2014, all away (side note - why is it set up that way?). In addition, 2014 has PSU away which is always tough.

Indiana's recruiting has really been heating up, so I expect them to keep getting stronger. They will also have Tre Roberson back as a QB possibility.

Iowa had a rough year but they will still play the Gophers tough regardless.

Wisky will be down a bit next year with the coaching change but are likely to rise back up after that.

Northwestern is a pretty young team with improving recruting who doesn't lose much next year.

Michigan is replacing Denard but they look like they could put Gardner back full time at QB and do just as well.

Lastly, I wouldn't go off total wins because Kill/Teague have made the OOC as easy as possible, so 4 wins better be expected. Thus, in order to show real improvement you really would have to look 4 4 OOC wins + 4-4 B1G = 8 wins as a target. Anything below that is not meeting expectations.

I remind you Kill has taken about a dozen JUCOs and a many early enrollees, and since he is playing so many frosh, they will have as many starts by the time they're Jrs as most 5th yr Srs on other teams. So the clock should be ticking.
 

Catechol said:
In terms of B1G record, Kill better make headway next year, and not count on 2014. The 2013 schedule has Iowa, Nebraska and Wisky at home and in 2014, all away (side note - why is it set up that way?). In addition, 2014 has PSU away which is always tough.

Indiana's recruiting has really been heating up, so I expect them to keep getting stronger. They will also have Tre Roberson back as a QB possibility.

Iowa had a rough year but they will still play the Gophers tough regardless.

Wisky will be down a bit next year with the coaching change but are likely to rise back up after that.

Northwestern is a pretty young team with improving recruting who doesn't lose much next year.

Michigan is replacing Denard but they look like they could put Gardner back full time at QB and do just as well.

Lastly, I wouldn't go off total wins because Kill/Teague have made the OOC as easy as possible, so 4 wins better be expected. Thus, in order to show real improvement you really would have to look 4 4 OOC wins + 4-4 B1G = 8 wins as a target. Anything below that is not meeting expectations.

I remind you Kill has taken about a dozen JUCOs and a many early enrollees, and since he is playing so many frosh, they will have as many starts by the time they're Jrs as most 5th yr Srs on other teams. So the clock should be ticking.
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Don't count on the 2014 schedule anymore. With the addition of 2 teams and possible reformatting the divisions, it will almost certainly change.
 

Wisconsin may see a downturn, but I don't think it will be until 2014. Even Bielema said before this season that the team is built for 2013. They lose a few key players, (they only lose 7-8 seniors depending on Phillip's status) but the talent returning looks just as good, if not better. They will still be able to run the ball down the throat of all but the best teams in the conference.
 

Catechol, I like setting lofty goals for next year and I know the expectations are going to be much higher for Nelson, Kill, and the Gophers.
Who do you think they can get the 4 wins against in in the Big ten next year?
 

FreakyDeke said:
Don't count on the 2014 schedule anymore. With the addition of 2 teams and possible reformatting the divisions, it will almost certainly change.
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True, but with MD/Rutgers likely going to the other division I would think the Iowa and Neb away games would still be there. Since Wisky is "protected" they may stay on the schedule too. Only thing I see happening with those 3 is Kill/Teague pushing for the B1G to give them a home game against one of them 2 years in a row. Or maybe they'd try to get out of the Wisconsin protected rivalry altogether.
 

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