1) It turns out that I'm a "racist prick"
2) So if I moved my family to the south, my unborn son would have a better chance at being a WR?
Philip Nelson
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1) It turns out that I'm a "racist prick"
2) So if I moved my family to the south, my unborn son would have a better chance at being a WR?
1) Congrats, please stay the hell out of my neighborhood and community!!!
2) No, if you had your son playing football all year round, and running track all year, the chances of him being a better football player would increase, get it? I can't speak to your weak, superior race, genetics though.
Feel free to take this to the Off - Topic board if you'd like to continue?
Duthasmon Smith
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While I don't agree with Dpol singling out Nelson as being able to run a particular speed because he is "white" (racist comment), I do believe there are significant differences between the races and it's pretty clear on most Sunday afternoon's or in the NBA. Just as ridiculous of a statement is the white guy is more "intelligent". That's equally as annoying.
Back on topic though, not sure we'll know if Nelson is a great QB for awhile but certainly seems a great prospect and I'll be happy to have a mobile, athletic QB again. Watched the nightmare of '03 of the BTN last night, Abdul-Kaliq was fun to watch!
Back on topic though, not sure we'll know if Nelson is a great QB for awhile but certainly seems a great prospect and I'll be happy to have a mobile, athletic QB again. Watched the nightmare of '03 of the BTN last night, Abdul-Kaliq was fun to watch!
Good post. But, wouldn't you agree that that difference is due to those athlete's environments? If they're not exposed to football or basketball, like a 6' 4" Nick Bjugstad who may have only played hockey but is a great athlete, they probably wouldn't make it to that level. Brent Barry won the NBA Slam Dunk contest, is it because he's white, or because he was exposed to basketball his entire life?
If Nelson is even close to that speed, it's a plus for the Gophers!
matt
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http://newsone.com/nation/newsonestaff2/scientists-discover-why-black-runners-are-faster-than-whites/
You may consider me a "racist prick" but I consider you ignorant for ignoring FACTS as they pertain to people of African origin versus European origin. 76 people have officially run a sub 10 second 100 meter - only 1 of them was white.
Ogee Ogilthorpe
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I'm not trying to argue with you about the next 3-4 years. I'd be delighted if there were another option, one perhaps more suited to the offense Kill and Co. want to implement, that was better than Shortell down the road, maybe even next year. Wouldn't surprise me one bit, wouldn't bother me one bit.
I'm just saying right here, right now, there's not a doubt in my mind that Shortell is well beyond Gray and it's not really that close. I've watched each game already 2-3 times each (God, that sounds pathetic) and when you watch it on replay, with the benefit of the rewind button, Gray looks worse every time and Shortell continues to look better.
This is what I see from Shortell:
Immobile; maybe so, but he's only averaging a half yard less per attempt than Gray. He takes WAY fewer sacks than Gray because he actually stays in the pocket and throws the ball. Against NDSU in particular, Gray ran himself into a half dozen sacks needlessly due to lack of patience. The pocket was there, he either failed to pull the trigger and/or bailed for no apparent reason.
Some plays that have stuck out with me (and a close buddy of mine who also played 4 years of college ball):
> When they brought him in right off the bench against NDSU for a 3rd and 10 (12?) play, he dropped in a perfect pass, between the corner and safety, to Jones, arguably the smallest target on the field.
> Down in the red zone against NDSU, the bubble screen to Moulton; NDSU DB jumps the route, Shortell patiently waits for him to overrun the receiver, and then delivers a strike. Most young QB's would have just thrown the ball in rhythm and on time like it works in practice, and could have been a pick six. Looks like a 4-yd completion in the books; on tape it was an impressive play.
> Even with short, seemingly easy completions (or opportunities); Shortell makes a decision and fires; Gray sees a guy (or doesn't even see him) and either waits too long to make the decision to throw or just flat out decides he's better off running anyway.
> One of Shortell's easiest completions of the year was one of the more impressive ones to me in that USC game; the TD to Brandon Green. Sure, the obvious thing was that Green was the 2nd or 3rd option but even after that, 2-3 things jumped out to me. When he settled on Green, he (1) made the decision and fired it immediately, allowing Green the chance to catch AND make a play, (2) he FIRED the ball, even for a short pass, getting the ball there quicker and allowing Green to make a move, and (3) he actually hit Green right in the middle of the chest, again, allowing him to actually do something with the ball after making the catch.
All dumb, little things that are easily taken for granted, but ones that stick out more when they are all things Gray has failed to do repeatedly.
> He actually hits the TE in stride on the seam route, something Gray routinely misses
> He seems to make better decisions on the zone read and the running game has been more efffective with him under center. I have a hard time saying that because Gray is the leading rusher, by far, that the "run game" has flourished with him under center. Gray's running numbers may have flourished, largely on broken plays, but the overall run game has been a dumpster fire with Gray at the helm.
Like I said, I have no clue how good Shortell can be THIS year, much less a few years down the road. I'm just saying the decision between Gray and Shortell right now is just not close. One is a QB, and one is a tremendous athlete who's just not really sure what he's doing out there.
dpodoll68
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Singling one race out as less intelligent, lazy, unproductive, etc. is terribly offensive and ill-informed because these statements are not true and are open to a million different degrees of subjectivity.
Things like speed, strength, vertical leap, etc. are quite objective and easily measured. It is not racist to point out factual differences between races. Is it racist to point out that blacks are far more likely to have sickle-cell anemia than other races? Is it sexist to state that men are much more likely to be color-blind than women? Is it sexist to state that men are much better at football than women? These are all facts, much like the fact that blacks are, on average, much faster runners than whites.
Oh, and "environmental factors", I always love that one. Clearly, that explains why blacks from the North are faster than whites from the South.
You can bury your head in the sand if you wish and call me "racist" and choose to ignore the thousands, if not millions, of pages' worth of scientific research that have been written on the subject. Blacks are more prone to fast-twitch muscle fibers, while whites are more prone to slow-twitch muscle fibers. I am not a scientist, so I don't know exactly why that is the case. I just know that it is a fact. Go ahead and ignore facts. I, for one, will not. I'm sorry if my lack of ignorance on the matter offends you.
Things like speed, strength, vertical leap, etc. are quite objective and easily measured. It is not racist to point out factual differences between races. Is it racist to point out that blacks are far more likely to have sickle-cell anemia than other races? Is it sexist to state that men are much more likely to be color-blind than women? Is it sexist to state that men are much better at football than women? These are all facts, much like the fact that blacks are, on average, much faster runners than whites.
Oh, and "environmental factors", I always love that one. Clearly, that explains why blacks from the North are faster than whites from the South.
You can bury your head in the sand if you wish and call me "racist" and choose to ignore the thousands, if not millions, of pages' worth of scientific research that have been written on the subject. Blacks are more prone to fast-twitch muscle fibers, while whites are more prone to slow-twitch muscle fibers. I am not a scientist, so I don't know exactly why that is the case. I just know that it is a fact. Go ahead and ignore facts. I, for one, will not. I'm sorry if my lack of ignorance on the matter offends you.
You're seriously going to paint yourself with this picture, and call them facts, based on a "belly button" position and "3 centimeters of height"? WOW!
If you're going to take this one guys study for fact, explain to me why black athletes from Minnesota aren't showing up with the same track times as people of African origin from areas like Florida? Maybe training, upbringing, exposure......
You can pull data from wherever you like. It's pure numbers, just like the number of white hockey players compared to ones of color, purely due to more white kids being exposed to it from a younger age. But now you're seeing those numbers changed with more exposure nationally.
And although you say you have millions of pages of research, you can't produce one that actually state your genetic argument?
Please stop apologizing, you're not even close to being sorry. You're just ignorant to the fact that it's still racism, but you're too stubborn and self righteous to admit it. I take racism very seriously, no matter what form it takes.
MNfootballfan
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Not that it matters, the MSHSL has some of the most loose guidelines with sports. During the summer months, high school football coaches are allowed an unlimited amount of time with their athletes to work on drills, offenses, and defenses. There are 2 dead periods - I believe it is the week around the 4th and the week before the season starts. I don't know each states guidelines, but the majority of the South is allowed "15 contact days" I believe to work on drills and offenses/defenses. Very similar to a colleges "spring ball season." Obviously this doesn't include offseason weight training, but the point is Minnesota high school football players get more time to prepare for the season than some of other states.
Section2
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immobile? Not from what I've seen, surprisingly mobile IMO.
not good at reading coverage? how would you know what reads he's making? He's only thrown 15 incompletions and 28 passes. That's a pretty small sample size for a true freshman QB.
inaccurate? I've only seen 1-2 poorly thrown balls, and that's with a very porous OL.
You may be a much better football mind and understand defenses and coverages much better than I do, but you are passing off as fact something that is very very much opinion, unless you have some kind of in with the program which I doubt. For a QB on a terrible team he looks great, he runs much better than I thought, throws a nice ball, looks like he has command, and has made some unfortunate mistakes. Very bright future from what I have seen.
FreakyDeke
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Take Kinesiology 1001 at the University of Minnesota. I did. You are wrong on this, sorry.
Section2
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It's actually a great question. I don't think it's training, I don't think it's exposure...
Duthasmon Smith
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Your comment There are maybe 5-6 HS recruits in the entire country who have a legitimate 4.48 40. It is simply not possible that a 210 lb. white kid from Mankato is one of them. Sorry.
That is a racist comment. Sorry.
mnsports1
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The x-ray vision comes in handy too.
mnsports1
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not going to research...but could it be fewer numbers...quantity?
dpodoll68
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Nope. It is simple probability.
Odds that a kid from MN is one of the fastest HS players in the country? Very small.
Odds that a kid from a rural area is one of the fastest HS players in the country? Very small.
Odds that a white kid is one of the fastest HS players in the country? Better odds than either of the first two, but still quite small.
Odds that a 200-lb.+ player is one of the fastest players in the country? Very small. Most elite HS runners are 160-170, or maybe 180 at best.
Now, to determine probability, you'd multiply all those factors and end up with a "1 in X" number. It is my contention that X is an extremely large number, probably larger than the quantity of players to ever play HS football, let alone the numbers playing this year alone. I am confident enough in the size of X to make the statement that it is statistically impossible.
Duthasmon Smith
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Those are not racist comments.
Racism is the belief that there are inherent differences in people's traits and capacities that are entirely due to their race, however defined, and that, as a consequence, racial discrimination (i.e. different treatment of those people, both socially and legally) is justified.
There are maybe 5-6 HS recruits in the entire country who have a legitimate 4.48 40. It is simply not possible that a 210 lb. white kid from Mankato is one of them. That is a racist comment. Try to expand your statement and further clarify your point is fine and understood but the first comment.......... is racist.
Rosemountian
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I think people are Confusing me saying Shortell is Not good for me saying gray is good.
I'm not saying gray was good. In Fact, I am pretty sure I've gone on the record as saying that if limegrover is going to refuse to change his offense to fit gray's strengths and hide his weaknesses they should starts Shortell. It's clear to me limegrover really likes the 5 and 7 step game, which gray struggles at. He doesn't like to sprint out and play action hasn't been effective, which would be gray's optimal plays IMO (at least throwing).
I think gray is the better QB but both are very below average. If you are gonna run a lot f 5 and 7 step you almost have to play max, as 5 and 7 step is the worst part of gray's game.
I'm not saying gray was good. In Fact, I am pretty sure I've gone on the record as saying that if limegrover is going to refuse to change his offense to fit gray's strengths and hide his weaknesses they should starts Shortell. It's clear to me limegrover really likes the 5 and 7 step game, which gray struggles at. He doesn't like to sprint out and play action hasn't been effective, which would be gray's optimal plays IMO (at least throwing).
I think gray is the better QB but both are very below average. If you are gonna run a lot f 5 and 7 step you almost have to play max, as 5 and 7 step is the worst part of gray's game.
Tim Riggins
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5-6 recruits in the entire country that run a 4.48, unless athletes have gotten slower in 10+ years that is inaccurate. Not sure what qualifies as legitimate in your eyes though. 5' 8" white kid from MN and I ran a 4.59 40 going into my senior year. It was at the U of M football camp by U coaches. Definitely athletes running 4.3-4.4 in high school, not sure why people have a tough time grasping that.
dpodoll68
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Yeah, you ran a 4.59 hand timed. Not a big deal.
No, there is not a single HS athlete, now or ever, running an electronic 4.3. Not even close. Running a sub-4.4 at the NFL combine is extremely rare, and those are produced by 21-22 year old men who've had the benefit of elite speed and strength training for several years.
Former Goofer
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Actually, it isn't 'very rare' for NFL prospects to run sub 4.4s at all.
http://www.nfl.com/combine/top-perf..._DASH&position=QB-RB-WR-TE-S-DL-LB-CB-OL-SPEC
And yes there are probably some HS kids who run sub 4.3s as well. Off the top of my head, I would be shocked if Jeffery Demps wasn't able to do a sub 4.3 in HS. That guy has legitimate Olympic type speed.
Duthasmon Smith
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And for further clarification........who are not white or from Mankato.
Awesome, then you can you easily show me documented proof that African Americans have more fast twitch fibers than European Americans right, or that their muscles are larger, something to prove that they are just flat out born faster and more athletic? Since it's obviously common knowledge and fundamental Kinesiology?
I honestly could care less what color the fastest, most gifted, kid is. I just want them all wearing Maroon and Gold! It's just a slippery slope, and morally wrong, to start stereotyping people based on color of skin.
KD6-3.7
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how can you take a small percentage of blacks and whites, i.e. those who competitively run sprints, and say that 'blacks are, on average, much faster than whites'? there are a lot more oscar winning actors who are white than black. are you going to tell me that whites are, on average, better actors than blacks?
care to explain why disciplines like competitive weightlifting, strongman competitions, shot put and discus and certain cycling events that require fast twitch muscles are dominated by white athletes?
Section2
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Most people run, not all people get to act.
RodentRampage
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Most people run?
You COULDN'T care less. If you could care less, then care less and stop talking about it.
Winning an Oscar is subjective and can be dependent on a number of things (the film, script, director, producer, the other movies during the year, etc.). How fast someone runs is not.
Just answering other people's posts Ma'am.