Perham defensive tackle Logan Richter Commits to Gophers~

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If this kid just showed up to a junior day and was offered on the spot......I have little doubt that he isn't going to be an impressive player. Every year you see kids fall through the cracks to the FCS. One of which was drafted #2 overall last year.
 

bemidjigopher said:
That's not the argument though, the argument was kids from out state are always rated lower because they don't play in the Metro and that simply isn't true
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Not fair to say they're "always rated lower" but they often don't get recognized by scouting services until a school offers them. 247 reevaluated and bumped up the rating for Drew Hmielewski after he committed.

And while I'm sure people will talk about how everyone knew about Andries, I wonder how much of that happened after Hmielewski put Marshall on the recruiting map.
 

joshvanklomp said:
Not fair to say they're "always rated lower" but they often don't get recognized by scouting services until a school offers them. 247 reevaluated and bumped up the rating for Drew Hmielewski after he committed.

And while I'm sure people will talk about how everyone knew about Andries, I wonder how much of that happened after Hmielewski put Marshall on the recruiting map.
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Probably around the same time. Andries has been a known product since he was a sophomore
 

dpodoll68 said:
Correct. Another example - John Carlson was a high 3-star and had offers from Notre Dame (where he played) and Stanford despite growing up in Litchfield.
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Sure there are examples of some that garner attention, but obviously it is much easier if you play somewhere that receives more looks. Everyone wants to look at who EP has every year, they aren't all going to check on Perham.
 

btowngopher said:
Sure there are examples of some that garner attention, but obviously it is much easier if you play somewhere that receives more looks. Everyone wants to look at who EP has every year, they aren't all going to check on Perham.
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No one is disputing that it's easier to receive more attention. The argument is that the same player would be higher-rated if he played at Eden Prairie, which is fallacious.
 


dpodoll68 said:
No one is disputing that it's easier to receive more attention. The argument is that the same player would be higher-rated if he played at Eden Prairie, which is fallacious.
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No it's not. Simply a matter knowing who is out there or not. Ratings services do a lousy job of finding/rating rural ball players. The Decker example is one we should never forget. Hopefully Richter will be similar.
 

dpodoll68 said:
No one is disputing that it's easier to receive more attention. The argument is that the same player would be higher-rated if he played at Eden Prairie, which is fallacious.
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He more then likely would have been 3* if he was from EP.
 

dpodoll68 said:
No one is disputing that it's easier to receive more attention. The argument is that the same player would be higher-rated if he played at Eden Prairie, which is fallacious.
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He probably would've. Level of competition plays a big part in evaluating football recruits when they haven't camped.
 

stocker08 said:
If this kid just showed up to a junior day and was offered on the spot......I have little doubt that he isn't going to be an impressive player. Every year you see kids fall through the cracks to the FCS. One of which was drafted #2 overall last year.
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I hope thats the case. I heard the kid committed so I sent him a tweet welcoming him to MN and the program but he is from MN,so I sent another apologizing for not knowing more about him. He's quite a nice kid from the response I got. I have heard NOTHING about him at all before he committed but it has to say something that Fleck offered him on the spot. I hope we got a legit diamond in the rough. I could barely find anything about him as far as evaluations online.
 



Congrats, young man! We've seen enough rural Minnesotans be ignored here and become All Big Ten players for Iowa and other places. Ski U Mah!
 

This kid coud become the next Rashede Hageman. A year in the strength and conditioning program to replace those baby fat, and you'd have a 300+ lb. DT.

The Gophers have some serious MN talent in this coming year's roster.

I like it. We build the foundation with in State talent and recruit areas of need within the 600-mile radius, and then elsewhere.
 

dpodoll68 said:
No one is disputing that it's easier to receive more attention. The argument is that the same player would be higher-rated if he played at Eden Prairie, which is fallacious.
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Ignorance is bliss. Level of competition does play into how a player is rated. You see it all the time in the NFL draft.


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Wcfan56 said:
No it's not. Simply a matter knowing who is out there or not. Ratings services do a lousy job of finding/rating rural ball players. The Decker example is one we should never forget. Hopefully Richter will be similar.
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You guys are arguing different points than the one under debate. No one is disputing whether he would've been rated sooner had he played for a metro team. It is a fact that players frequently receive their first evaluation only after receiving their first offer. There are literally hundreds of thousands of HS football players at any given time and not close to the level of time, manpower, or money needed to evaluate even a significant percentage of them proactively. No one is disputing any of that. The point under discussion is whether he, as the exact same player, but now playing for Eden Prairie, would be rated more highly. He would not. It's a silly, baseless assertion.
 


dpodoll68 said:
You guys are arguing different points than the one under debate. No one is disputing whether he would've been rated sooner had he played for a metro team. It is a fact that players frequently receive their first evaluation only after receiving their first offer. There are literally hundreds of thousands of HS football players at any given time and not close to the level of time, manpower, or money needed to evaluate even a significant percentage of them proactively. No one is disputing any of that. The point under discussion is whether he, as the exact same player, but now playing for Eden Prairie, would be rated more highly. He would not. It's a silly, baseless assertion.
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It's not baseless! Evaluating a recruit against lower level talent increases the risk of evaluation error. It's like evaluating a large company stock against a small company stock, all things being equal, the small company stock will trade for less because of evaluation risk, there's just not as much information available. The same dynamic comes into play with small school kids. It might not make a huge amount of difference in stars, but it could result in a kid that would be a 5.7 at EP, being a 5.5, because there;s limited information available.
 

Donkeypunch Jones said:
I hope thats the case. I heard the kid committed so I sent him a tweet welcoming him to MN and the program but he is from MN,so I sent another apologizing for not knowing more about him. He's quite a nice kid from the response I got. I have heard NOTHING about him at all before he committed but it has to say something that Fleck offered him on the spot. I hope we got a legit diamond in the rough. I could barely find anything about him as far as evaluations online.
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I'm imagining the kid's reaction to getting a "Welcome to Minnesota" tweet from Donkeypunch Jones & it makes me smile.
 

nsmike said:
It's not baseless! Evaluating a recruit against lower level talent increases the risk of evaluation error. It's like evaluating a large company stock against a small company stock, all things being equal, the small company stock will trade for less because of evaluation risk, there's just not as much information available. The same dynamic comes into play with small school kids. It might not make a huge amount of difference in stars, but it could result in a kid that would be a 5.7 at EP, being a 5.5, because there;s limited information available.
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I agree. No camps, no live evals, no offers lead to more conservative assessments because of the rampant groupthink. Nobody wants to be the guy that rates Decker a 4 star and he doesn't pan out. Lightly evaluated kids may need to have their evals appropriately adjusted upward. It shall be called the Richter scale.

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NDSU coach Craig Bohl visited Adam Thielen, said "son, you're 6 5 165, you'd get killed in D1" Adam went out, bulked up, ran clean routes and voila, NFL

NDSU coach Craig Bohl visited Carson Wentz said "son, you had 1 senior year, that's it, come to ndsu redshirt, then sit & watch Brock Jensen" voila, #2 draft pick.

Plenty of diamonds in the rough, Marcus Williams, Billy Turner, Ramon Humber, Joe Haeg all in the NFL now and Joe Haeg was a walk on from Brainerd!

best of luck to Logan
 

dpodoll68 said:
No one is disputing that it's easier to receive more attention. The argument is that the same player would be higher-rated if he played at Eden Prairie, which is fallacious.
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He likely would have never been rated at Perham had he not received an offer.
 


dpodoll68 said:
For at least the third time now, no one is disputing that.
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You're saying he'd have the same amount of stars either way. Zero is less than three. You also said if you are good coaches will find you, which is really wrong, but you'll never admit it.
 

btowngopher said:
You're saying he'd have the same amount of stars either way. Zero is less than three. You also said if you are good coaches will find you, which is really wrong, but you'll never admit it.
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Zero stars means that they haven't been evaluated, champ. Once again, the argument is that, AFTER EVALUATION, the exact same player would be rated more highly based on where he plays, which is really, really stupid.
 

btowngopher said:
He likely would have never been rated at Perham had he not received an offer.
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I didn't know the city of Perham had a rating system, but coming from the city I have to believe he'd be a five star. [emoji57] [emoji41] [emoji109]
 

dpodoll68 said:
Zero stars means that they haven't been evaluated, champ. Once again, the argument is that, AFTER EVALUATION, the exact same player would be rated more highly based on where he plays, which is really, really stupid.
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+1
Don't think it matters where a kid is from, recruiting evaluations would be similar.
Kids from bigger schools have a better chance at being evaluated, just because of the exposure those bigger schools get.
Smaller school kids can increase their chances by attending summer camps.
If a player is good enough, then coaches will find them. Maybe not D1 FBS schools, but the other levels will. That is why there are always players from FCS, D2 and D3 that make it into the NFL.
 

bisonation said:
NDSU coach Craig Bohl visited Adam Thielen, said "son, you're 6 5 165, you'd get killed in D1" Adam went out, bulked up, ran clean routes and voila, NFL

NDSU coach Craig Bohl visited Carson Wentz said "son, you had 1 senior year, that's it, come to ndsu redshirt, then sit & watch Brock Jensen" voila, #2 draft pick.

Plenty of diamonds in the rough, Marcus Williams, Billy Turner, Ramon Humber, Joe Haeg all in the NFL now and Joe Haeg was a walk on from Brainerd!

best of luck to Logan
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Had no idea Thielen was once 6'5"! Crazy to think he's shrunk 2-3 inches since HS!
 

dpodoll68 said:
Zero stars means that they haven't been evaluated, champ. Once again, the argument is that, AFTER EVALUATION, the exact same player would be rated more highly based on where he plays, which is really, really stupid.
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I know what zero stars means. Actually your argument was that if you are good coaches and evaluation sites will find you.
 

btowngopher said:
I know what zero stars means. Actually your argument was that if you are good coaches and evaluation sites will find you.
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Would agree with that on the coaches will find them. Maybe not D1 FBS, but between them FCS, D2 and D3, someone will find them. Either that or there are some really good football players who are walking around campuses or working that are not playing football because they were overlooked and never given a chance.
 

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