PENN STATE to ACC

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GopherFanatic19 said:
Caue if you look around you will see that this is being talked about all around! Whether it happens or not it is still being talked about.
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I did a google search and found it being discussed in about a dozen places, but they all link back to few original articles. They second highest number of hits was here...hmmmm.
 

Bemidji State to the Big 12 is also being talked about. I just talked about it now. And that's about as credible.
 

RodentRampage said:
Bemidji State to the Big 12 is also being talked about. I just talked about it now. And that's about as credible.
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All I can say is if Bemidji gets in, if you win the toss, defer and take the wind!

I'm only half-serious about a Penn State/Missouri swap, but I've never thought Penn State fits the Big Ten culture.
 

50PoundHead said:
All I can say is if Bemidji gets in, if you win the toss, defer and take the wind!

I'm only half-serious about a Penn State/Missouri swap, but I've never thought Penn State fits the Big Ten culture.
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I guess I don't understand why a school has to fit in 100% with a "culture" of a conference? Or, let me put it this way... the B1G is a "midwest" conference, but what does that mean? Ohio, Michigan, Indiana are states that have TONS of manufacturing - steel mills, auto industry, etc. Those industries and type of people dominate that region. But MN, WI, Iowa, Illinois, now Nebraska were states (and still are) that have a different "culture" of people - farmers, dairy, lighter manufacturing, smaller cities, etc. I would honestly say PSU fits in to the culture of midwest (western PA is very blue collar), the B1G football culture (big stadiums, rabid fans, etc), and the academic culture.

To say the ACC is a better fit simply because now Piss and Syracuse are joining is as crazy as saying PSU fits in with every school in the B1G. Are you telling me PSU has as much in common with schools like Miami? Florida State? Georgia Tech? Clemson? Come on.

I give PSU fans that they have a history with certain teams found in the ACC - Pitt, Syracuse, and Maryland are all in their top-10 most played teams list. I don't doubt many fans miss playing Pitt every year (natural rivalry) and then being able to mix it up with other independents like Army/Navy, then play some geographically local teams like Maryland, West Virginia, etc every year. But the reality is that when they joined the B1G they got MUCH higher quality opponents every year, better exposure, and the academic benefits as well. They have 4 (soon to be 3) games a year to schedule teams like Pitt/Syracuse, why not use them?

To be honest I like having PSU in the B1G and think they fit in pretty darn well.
 

I just like how you called Pittsburgh "Piss".
 


RBY, it's just my opinion. To me, Penn State is an eastern school in one of the thirteen original colonies. None of the other Big Ten schools are. I'm old and grew up with a much greater "regional consciousness," if you will, and I always found the Penn State into the Big Ten an odd decision, as much for them as for the Big Ten.

They're here and that's fine.
 


50PoundHead said:
RBY, it's just my opinion. To me, Penn State is an eastern school in one of the thirteen original colonies. None of the other Big Ten schools are. I'm old and grew up with a much greater "regional consciousness," if you will, and I always found the Penn State into the Big Ten an odd decision, as much for them as for the Big Ten.

They're here and that's fine.
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That's fine, my only point is that I don't think you'll ever fit in entirely with a given conference. I guess to me all eastern seaboard states aren't the same - culturally, historically, or even football culture. Fitting in with certain schools in the B1G for PSU is harder than other schools, no different than it would be in the ACC.

I've really only ever known PSU to be in the B1G but thought nothing of it. Relatively speaking, though, the 'rivalries' and history is still pretty new for them/ In 20-30 years, will it be the same? Doubtful.
 

I have to agree they have 4 games a year to schedule teams like Pitt, Syracuse, and Maryland but they never do! Now all of a sudden a lot of their fans want to move to the ACC to play those teams! The question is why? In this case Penn State plays in the top conference in sports and they can still have their cake to by scheduling teams like Pitt, Cuse, and Maryland while coming back to play competitive games that ACC cant have!

A part of me thinks that the few fans who want to move to the ACC want to do it so they can be the top dog year in and year out in that conference! Those fans would be happy with 10 wins a year against mediocre teams compared to 8 wins against tops teams!
 



GopherinPhilly said:
What still amazes me is that most fans, obviously ours and the rest of the US, think the Big Ten is an athletic conference. The Big Ten was, is and always will be a research and academic consortium that also aligns its athletics out of convenience. This is why the U of Chicago is still part of the Big Ten consortium even though they have nothing to do with athletics. Keep in mind the rule has always been, once in, always in the Big Ten. Leaving the Big Ten would be akin to divorcing Warren Buffet after signing a PreNup that gives you ten bucks if you leave. The ACC is a joke athletic conference that has not redeeming academic values...not that all ACC schools are bad, just as a conference the ACC means nothing in the academic world. Same with SEC, PAC 12 and Big 12 and all the rest. The Big Ten was set up to rival the Ivy League...hence the Public Ivys.
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Aboslutely correct. This is what other pissant conferences (read B12, ACC, BE, and regrettably the Pac12(10)), national pundits, and apparently our own fans do not understand. The Big 10 (nee Western) Conference was formed based on academics not sports. Membership in the Committee on Institutional Cooperation is waaaaaaaay more important to the universities than silly little football rivalries that you read about on message boards. And rightfully so.

Remember the news conference where Nebraska's President apologized for losing their AAU accreditation? He knew that if they had lost that prior to the vote on joining the conference, they would've been DOA. Remember Missouri's President openly opining for membership in the B10? It wasn't because of the football. Academics will always drive this conference.
 

GoGoGophers said:
Aboslutely correct. This is what other pissant conferences (read B12, ACC, BE, and regrettably the Pac12(10)), national pundits, and apparently our own fans do not understand. The Big 10 (nee Western) Conference was formed based on academics not sports. Membership in the Committee on Institutional Cooperation is waaaaaaaay more important to the universities than silly little football rivalries that you read about on message boards. And rightfully so.

Remember the news conference where Nebraska's President apologized for losing their AAU accreditation? He knew that if they had lost that prior to the vote on joining the conference, they would've been DOA. Remember Missouri's President openly opining for membership in the B10? It wasn't because of the football. Academics will always drive this conference.
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While the Big Ten has fine schools, you do realize the ACC is second only to the Ivies, right? The seventh-best ACC school (Miami) would be ranked 3rd in the B1G. If you dont realize Duke, UNC, UVA, GaTech, Wake Forest, BC, and Miami are - and always have been - giants in academic research you might want to step out of your little bubble. PSU is a much better fit in the B1G.
 

The Big 10 owns Penn State's TV rights for the next 20-some odd years. If they went to the ACC their athletic department would be so poor they wouldn't even be able to afford decals for their helmets.
 

RamblinWreck said:
While the Big Ten has fine schools, you do realize the ACC is second only to the Ivies, right? The seventh-best ACC school (Miami) would be ranked 3rd in the B1G. If you dont realize Duke, UNC, UVA, GaTech, Wake Forest, BC, and Miami are - and always have been - giants in academic research you might want to step out of your little bubble. PSU is a much better fit in the B1G.
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http://www.nacubo.org/Documents/research/2010NCSE_Public_Tables_Endowment_Market_Values_Final.pdf

Go ahead and think that. The B1G's average endowment ranking, including NE, is 37.5. The B1G has 10 of its 12 schools in the top 50, and 2 in the top 10.

The ACC has an average endowment ranking of 76.3rd (including Pitt and Syracuse). Only 4 crack the top 50 and none in the top 10.

If using the US News and World Report rankings, the average ACC school is ranked 50.7th while the B1G average is 56.25.

Not saying the ACC schools are bad or mid-level schools, but overall academics and research there really isn't much of a comparison...
 



RamblinWreck said:
While the Big Ten has fine schools, you do realize the ACC is second only to the Ivies, right? The seventh-best ACC school (Miami) would be ranked 3rd in the B1G. If you dont realize Duke, UNC, UVA, GaTech, Wake Forest, BC, and Miami are - and always have been - giants in academic research you might want to step out of your little bubble. PSU is a much better fit in the B1G.
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Wake?! Miami?! Boston College?! Sweet merciful crap. Thankfully university administrators and faculty don't blindly follow the ridiculous list USnooze publishes every year. Take a look here, son.

http://mup.asu.edu/research2010.pdf

(From the report) - The Center for Measuring University Performance determines the Top American Research Universities by their rank on nine different measures: Total Research, Federal Research, Endowment Assets, Annual Giving, National Academy Members, Faculty Awards, Doctorates Granted, Postdoctoral Appointees, and SAT/ACT range.

Notice how these criteria tie to the overall endowments listed in the table. Strange, I know. The glorious ACC has 5 schools that make the grade with measures in the top 25 of research universities. Only Duke and UNC can hold a candle to the majority of the B10 schools in that regard. UVA has 2 measures that are in the top 25, GT and Maryland have 1. BC doesn't even make this report. Should we talk about Clemson? FSU?

Conversely, 9 B10 schools have measures in the top 25 nationally (including member school U of Chicago). MSU, Iowa, and IU are 3 of the first 4 in the next bracket and Nebraska falls in this category too. You are absolutely correct in claiming PSU is a better fit in the B10; they blow away the ACC.
 

I think it is ironic that someone that is apparently using the much-questioned US News and World Report rankings as their sole piece of evidence is suggesting others need to step out of their "little bubble."

My alma mater, despite annually ranking quite high in those rankings, actually quit providing data to US News and World Report for their annual rankings due to all the head scratching results that it produced. I believe they may have since held their nose and participated again but only because they got sick of answering the "why aren't you ranked anymore" questions from the uninformed.
 

Schnauzer said:
I think it is ironic that someone that is apparently using the much-questioned US News and World Report rankings as their sole piece of evidence is suggesting others need to step out of their "little bubble."

My alma mater, despite annually ranking quite high in those rankings, actually quit providing data to US News and World Report for their annual rankings due to all the head scratching results that it produced. I believe they may have since held their nose and participated again but only because they got sick of answering the "why aren't you ranked anymore" questions from the uninformed.
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I believe the dropping of the ACT as an admissions requirement was the reason, we didn't want to drop like a rock b/c ACT was removed as a requirement. Some type of discussion must have taken place between GAC and US N&WR since then to ensure a ranking that still had the school in similar ranking to before the change.
 

50PoundHead said:
All I can say is if Bemidji gets in, if you win the toss, defer and take the wind!

I'm only half-serious about a Penn State/Missouri swap, but I've never thought Penn State fits the Big Ten culture.
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Im assuming you have been to Penn St. and some how walked away with this belief? I have been to all 12 Big Ten campuses and spent many a fine night at State College, have hired and work with several Penn St. grads and count many among my friends...and I can't find a single difference in their attitudes about their school and teams than I have about my Gophers and the U. That said, I lived in Panama City Beach, FL for many years and spent way too much time with FSU, UofF, Auburn and Bama people...and I can tell you, it aint the same. My favorite line is always when a Bama grad slams an FSU grad on the quality of their education...now that is funny.

On this topic, I lived in Lincoln, ND for a year and Grand Island, NE for 3 years and I feel that NE is equally a good fit for the Big Ten as PSU. While NE isn't on par yet with their academics, they are committed to them and continue to grow their research endowment and build facilities to enhance their academics.

I don't want to change the Big Ten...we have the right 12 IMO.
 

RamblinWreck said:
While the Big Ten has fine schools, you do realize the ACC is second only to the Ivies, right? The seventh-best ACC school (Miami) would be ranked 3rd in the B1G. If you dont realize Duke, UNC, UVA, GaTech, Wake Forest, BC, and Miami are - and always have been - giants in academic research you might want to step out of your little bubble. PSU is a much better fit in the B1G.
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Ummm....no. ACC are good schools, but there's not a D1 conference in America that competes with the Big Ten in research and academics. Since others have already done so, I won't post links to support for that. It's been pretty well established.

But your post exhibits a funny tendency many Minnesotans have...to always think that something they've heard about that's far away must be better than what's here. I've never quite understood that.
 

RamblinWreck said:
While the Big Ten has fine schools, you do realize the ACC is second only to the Ivies, right? The seventh-best ACC school (Miami) would be ranked 3rd in the B1G. If you dont realize Duke, UNC, UVA, GaTech, Wake Forest, BC, and Miami are - and always have been - giants in academic research you might want to step out of your little bubble. PSU is a much better fit in the B1G.
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Giants in academic research...

I'm still laughing. Hysterically.
 

year of the gopher said:
Ummm....no. ACC are good schools, but there's not a D1 conference in America that competes with the Big Ten in research and academics. Since others have already done so, I won't post links to support for that. It's been pretty well established.

But your post exhibits a funny tendency many Minnesotans have...to always think that something they've heard about that's far away must be better than what's here. I've never quite understood that.
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It doesn't hurt that the ACC has UNC and UVA which rank in the top 5 for public universities every year. You are correct in terms of research, the B1G is dominant on that list:
http://mup.asu.edu/research2010.pdf
 

I would gladly trade Penn State for Missouri.

I know that's ridiculous from a revenue perspective. I just don't care about the Nittany Lions. While they have great attendance, a huge fan base, and are a good school academically--- they aren't midwesterners. My brief, drunken time in Happy Valley I felt more Boston influence than Chicago influence.
 

Killing time on a Friday afternoon not wanting to work.....so I'll add (others may have said as much, but I haven't read the whole thread):

- PSU has the Big Ten to thank for their academic quality. They've had a steady rise since joining the Big Ten. When you think about it, MSU gets all the ribbing for their academics holding the Big Ten down. They'd be in the top half of every other BCS conference as far as academic excellence, and in some they'd be the Harvard or Yale. PSU knows this. They would never leave for this very reason.

- The Big Ten's media rights are locked shut. No team can leave and survive financially. Only the Pac 12 has as strong of an agreement.

It's good to be the big dogs. The Big Ten is the premier conference to be a member of.
 

If there is expansion I think the order should be 1) Notre dame, 2) Mizzoo, 3) Rutgers 4) Kansas
 

Badger_inohiovalley said:
Killing time on a Friday afternoon not wanting to work.....so I'll add (others may have said as much, but I haven't read the whole thread):

- PSU has the Big Ten to thank for their academic quality. They've had a steady rise since joining the Big Ten. When you think about it, MSU gets all the ribbing for their academics holding the Big Ten down. They'd be in the top half of every other BCS conference as far as academic excellence, and in some they'd be the Harvard or Yale. PSU knows this. They would never leave for this very reason.

- The Big Ten's media rights are locked shut. No team can leave and survive financially. Only the Pac 12 has as strong of an agreement.

It's good to be the big dogs. The Big Ten is the premier conference to be a member of.
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I agree 100% with this post. PSU looks better and better, esp. as a research university, since joining the B1G. Agree especially on the Michigan State thing. It's a quality school when you look around the country. They just happen to be in the same state as one of the best couple publics in the country and in a conference that features a ridiculous concentration of academic and research clout.

By the way, anyone notice that the logo B1G looks more logical with 16 teams? You know, the G and the 6 being the same shape and all?
 

A few years after graduating the U (1979) I headed to Penn State for a few more years of beer drinking. To suggest this school doesn’t fit the Big-10 mold is flat out wrong.

Granted, the student body lacks the cultural homogeneity of some Big-10 campuses. While the eastern 1/3 of Pennsylvania is culturally “east coast.” The western 2/3rds of the state is Midwestern in character. Pittsburgh feels more like a small Chicago than a small Philadelphia or New York. And the character and attitudes of a large percentage of the student body mirror this east-west split. Admittedly, the school pulls from NYC, New Jersey, and New England, but this only makes for a more interesting student body.

The school is a Land Grant University and, as a result, maintains strong engineering and agricultural sciences colleges. Same applies to 7 other Big-10 schools. Similar to most Big-10 Universities, it has a large endowment and an excellent research reputation. Finally, somebody has to be on the periphery. But the drive from State College to Columbus is not much farther than the drive from Minneapolis to Madison.

Losing Penn State to the ACC would be a huge loss for the Big-10. Thankfully, such a move is highly unlikely.
 

I believe it was James Carville who referred to the state of Pennsylvania as "Philly to the east...Pittsburgh to the west...and Alabama in between...":)

I don't anticipate that chump from Georgia Tech (cheater program, per the NCAA a month or so ago) returning to this message board any time soon:p
 

When my wife asked if I wanted to go to TCF for tomorrow night's game, I thought I would come here to see what fans were saying about the game (can't say I'm keen with the product on the field, but it's always fun to go to a CFB night game at a nice stadium). I saw some bloke's comment in this thread that read

The ACC ... has [no] redeeming academic values... as a conference the ACC means nothing in the academic world.
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It was this that I was challenging in my preceding post, being a proud ACC guy. For anyone to believe this is true is a sign that he or she is clueless of the academics of the ACC. Duke, UNC, UVA, Ga Tech, BC, Wake, Miami, and even Maryland are all extraordinary schools most of which have excellent research as well as top-tier students (as evidence of acceptance rates and academic rigor). To say these schools "mean nothing in the academic world" is blasphemous. It was this I was challenging.

I provided one counterexample to counter the assertion of many that the Big Ten is just orders of magnitude above every conference in an academic sense. Providing one counterexample is not trying to claim, as some have above, that one group of schools is superior. Splitting hairs about rankings is just pointless because everyone is just going to point the those that confirm their own bias. I said the ACC is closer to the Ivies which I stand by because of both academics and culture ( that are quite selective, and are very rigorous... at least in the top half of schools). ACC schools are half the size of Big Ten schools muddling the comparisons even more.

My primary objective was to call out the "means nothing" kerfuffle.
 

The B10 isn't an academic or athletic conference (it's a $$$ conference). They didn't go for the best football school when they expanded because they're all about the classroom.

I'd trade Nebraska for Missouri. Bigger, better academics. Or if you want to think outside the box, check out the U of Toronto. Bigger still, public, premier academics.

Absolutely no to ND. They're private, religious, undergrad oriented. But they fit well in football, and since the B10's an academic conference......???
 

RamblinWreck said:
The seventh-best ACC school (Miami) would be ranked 3rd in the B1G...you might want to step out of your little bubble. PSU is a much better fit in the B1G.
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This is what you said. It was shoved back down your yapper. Of those schools you listed, only two compare to the top B10 schools in the quantitative measures of excellence that matter. You shot of your mouth by using USnooze garbage rankings to state the the freaking University of Miami (FL, not the good one in OH) is better than 10 B10 schools. You were rightfully mocked for those assertions, and now you're backtracking to claim that you were not trying to state exactly what you stated?

The fact is that the B10 is the oldest, richest, and best ACADEMIC conference in the country. Period. Quote all the acceptance rates you want, we'll just continue to dominate the collegiate landscape in all the measures that matter.
 

Never been to Penn State but I've been to Pennsylvania and I came away with the same impression as wels0081. It has a very heavy Eastern influence, which makes sense because they are an Eastern State. Western Pennsylvania is almost identical to Ohio (but then again, you can experience the whole United States except for "California Cool" in Ohio), so I suppose you could--if you stretched them--have my comments include Ohio as well as Pennsylvania (which clearly isn't the intent of my comments).

I'm fine with the conference as it is, but I'll have to admit I didn't like the addition of Penn State. But HEY! That's just me. I'm not the Grand Overlord of College Football.
 

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