Penn State sells out 21,000 student ticket allotment in six minutes

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MNGoldenGophers1 said:
" Originally Posted by MNVCGUY
So what should happen? Do you give the school the death penalty? Do you keep on punishing players and coaches that didn't have anything to do with what happened? Do you expect the fans to abandon the program completely? You are making a lot of general assumptions about the fanbase and the personal beliefs of the 100,000+ that show up in Happy Valley on gameday. What happened with Paterno/Sandusky was a massive black eye for the program and the school. They have paid the price in the public and those that were guilty have been dealt with by the legal system. Paterno's reputation will always be tied to what happened under his watch. But all of that happened in the past, the students and fans should be allowed to support the program and not feel guilty about it."


Yes, PSU (Pedophile State University) should have been given the death penalty but unfortunately that won't happen now. Do you really think a "black-eye" is all they deserved? If you don't punish the institution with severe penalties for severe crimes, you did little to change the behavior (just look at the Catholic Church).

This is some serious sick sh!t and I don't give a rats azz what the poor coaches, players and fans think. I'm more interested in what the victims think and whether they believe there has been a fair punishment. Ask yourself, if you or your child was the victim of such a crime, would you be okay with the perpetrator getting a black-eye? If so, get help, a lot of help!
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I'd be ok doing just about anything to the perpetrator if I had a child who was raped. Execution, torture , you name it. However, I wouldn't want to go around punishing people that didn't do anything wrong just to make a point.
 

How about deterrence of similar episodes? Letting the program off the hook because "the perpetrators are gone" is a cop out.

Every punishment, whether civil or criminal, has significant collateral damage to families, employers, etc. Does this mean there shouldn't be a punishment?

Some of you sound like you just fell off the boat and I know some of you are old enough to know better.

Did i state the program can't have football or the students cannot support the team? This has nothing to do with that. We can have our opinions about many of the fine people of Happy Valley.
 

imthewalrus said:
And you say that what the courts have decided is not enough? What was your stand on whether the King should have cut the baby in half and given 1/2 of the baby to each of the parties in the dispute over custody of the child? Or, were you crying "foul" and "lack of contrition" when the judge granted a "pound of flesh" but "Not a drop of blood" And, should the University of Minnesota EVER have been allowed to play another men's Hoops game after the Haskin's outrageous scandal? Hell, pompus one, there are still people who think the NCAA screwed the U Basketball Program over with that outcome.

Let the court have it's day, meter out it's punishment and then life MUST go on. You aren't any where near smart enough to identify when maximum contrition has been reached by the people impacted by Penn State University: the INSTITUTION. I'm not foolish enough to think that I know when they have paid enough. Let it be in the hands of the legal system...the justice system. Then, let life go on and let the people who have skin in the game at PSU do as the law allows them to do.

What kind of a dictator do you think you are, any way pompous elitest? You make a pretty damn poor judge, jury and executioner pompous one.
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Penn state will lose only 10 scholarships this year, 5 next year, none in 2016. Do you think hiding the abuse helped recruiting in any way the last many years?

If Claeys was found to be molesting young boys do you suppose that would that have an impact on recruiting and the university as a whole?

The sanctions are justified and when compared to the gophers or USCs, to name two, are pretty light.
 

Pompous Elitist said:
How about deterrence of similar episodes? Letting the program off the hook because "the perpetrators are gone" is a cop out.

Every punishment, whether civil or criminal, has significant collateral damage to families, employers, etc. Does this mean there shouldn't be a punishment?

Some of you sound like you just fell off the boat and I know some of you are old enough to know better.

Did i state the program can't have football or the students cannot support the team? This has nothing to do with that. We can have our opinions about many of the fine people of Happy Valley.
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The nature of collateral damage is when somebody is targeted for punishment, necessarily other people are hurt by the person/organization being punished. For example, Sandusky commits a horrible crime, he is incarcerated for it, and as a result of his incarceration his family suffers because he cannot provide for them while in jail and his employer suffers because his employer loses his services. I don't think that collateral damage means that nobody should be punished whenever there is potential for collateral damage.

My objection to the Penn State punishments is that they aren't collateral at all. The punishments are targeted at an organization which had already purged everyone responsible for the wrongdoing.
 

The problem with that, Bleeds, is that the perps are often gone by the time the punishments are handed down.

The goal is to force better self-policing.
 


As some have mentioned, players and coaches often pay the price for mistakes made by others. This is true because when ncaa rules are broken the ncaa has no subpoena power or can not convict people and send them to jail. It is the only enforcement power they have.

This is not the case in the PSU situation. First of all there were no ncaa rules broken. There were laws of the state/crimes against humanity that were broken. We have a legal system in our country to handle these situations. The people that were responsible for the crimes have all been fired from PSU. All of these people are either dead, spending the rest of their life in jail or awaiting trial.

For those of you that keep harping for PSU to get the death penalty, you are either:
Morally vain.
Think football and the ncaa are all-important.
Or just plain forgot we have a legal system
 

station19 said:
As some have mentioned, players and coaches often pay the price for mistakes made by others. This is true because when ncaa rules are broken the ncaa has no subpoena power or can not convict people and send them to jail. It is the only enforcement power they have.

This is not the case in the PSU situation. First of all there were no ncaa rules broken. There were laws of the state/crimes against humanity that were broken. We have a legal system in our country to handle these situations. The people that were responsible for the crimes have all been fired from PSU. All of these people are either dead, spending the rest of their life in jail or awaiting trial.

For those of you that keep harping for PSU to get the death penalty, you are either:
Morally vain.
Think football and the ncaa are all-important.
Or just plain forgot we have a legal system
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Gross breach of ethics and integrity clauses.

I would guess the NCAA didn't explicitly imagine a scenario where crimes against children were hidden to further the football program

I would imagine that will be explicitly spelled out for folks like yourself, moving forward

The NCAA has every right to protect the image and integrity of its product (insert guffaws here).
 

Pompous Elitist said:
Gross breach of ethics and integrity clauses.

I would guess the NCAA didn't explicitly imagine a scenario where crimes against children were hidden to further the football program

I would imagine that will be explicitly spelled out for folks like yourself, moving forward

The NCAA has every right to protect the image and integrity of its product (insert guffaws here).
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"For those of you that keep harping for PSU to get the death penalty, you are either:
Morally vain.
Think football and the ncaa are all-important.
Or just plain forgot we have a legal system"

In case you missed it the first time.
 

The ONLY bitch you have is with the legal system then pompous one. The prosecutors prosecuted and won their case. Do you want the prosecutors to somehow continue to persecute PSU too? The punishments were handed out by the ONLY stinking legal system that we have. They had the go to prosecute to the full extent of the law. You now appear to want to make it your own cause to "persecute" PSU people in general. That is rather bigoted is it not pompous elitis?

Then the NCAA came in and punished the punished further still. So who are you bitching about so pompously? Did the system "blow it" in your pompous estimation? What more should have been done in your "elitist" view? How can you blame PSU unidentified fans for what the legal system and the court system did by claiming it was not enough? Should there be a death by pompous elitist for unidentified Penn State loyalists?

The legal system that we have is the ONLY legal system that we have. As far as I know, it is probably the best legal system that exists in the world today, even though it is skewed in the favor of the wealthy because they can buy the supposedly "best" lawyers to either defend them or to represent them in the court of law. And yet, you, pompous elitist that you proclaim yourself to be would somehow imply that PSU should be looked down upon because the legal system threw the book at the situation there and handed out the justice that the legal system felt was appropriate. And then, the NCAA came in and punished further still. And still you, the most self-proclaimed pompous elitist on this board tries to dodge the fact that the legal system that kow tows ONLY to the appeals system and ultimately to the SUPREME COURT did exactly what the legal system felt was appropriate for the circumstances and you attempt to argue your case.

Sorry Mr. pompous elitist: I think that the court system put a lot of thought into their verdicts here. I think the NCAA grabbed their pound of flesh as well. I think that the legal system has much more experience, wisdom and power on it's side than you do. I vote with the legal system's verdict on this one. I put blind faith in what they have decreed. This nation spends billions and billions every year maintaining this system of courts, punishments, sentences, fines, and all kinds of ways to make people pay...and pay...and pay for their offenses against society. I'm siding with the existing system. It is the only system that we have. It certainly beats kangaroo courts. It certainly beats vigilante justice. It beats rule by mob-force. It beats taking the law into your own hands. The legal system is not ruled by gunslingers. This is not the wild, wild west. Justice may be blind...but...it prevails. Justice certainly is far superior to the absence of justice.

This case had it's day in court. It has been taken out of the hands of the bloggers, message board participants. As far as the U.S. Legal system is considered: this case has been examined, had it's day in court, all punishments are being served and is now in the books.

Do you really dare be so critical of the legal system?
 



I love you man.

I think we're arguing two different things here.

Thanks for the chuckles.
 

station19 said:
"For those of you that keep harping for PSU to get the death penalty, you are either:
Morally vain Maybe, this is a non-argument. You want to argue about morals? When have I ever wrote they deserve the death penalty?
Think football and the ncaa are all-important. No, that would be the PSU of Paterno. Every organization needs rules. I don't think this should be news? Is it?
Or just plain forgot we have a legal system" I have no idea what you mean by this. The criminal justice system and the NCAA are two separate entities and have different functions. Does this need to be explained??

In case you missed it the first time.
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My responses in blue.
 

I haven't seen PE argue that PSU should get the death penalty now anywhere in this thread. I've seen him say two things, 1) they should have received the death penalty and 2) it's shameful the way some PSU fans are in denial - it's a stain on the larger fan base. Not sure I can argue with either point.
 

Pompous Elitist said:
I love you man."
So you are not happy that the NCAA failed to kill the PSU Football program way back when? Of course, you are not arguing that they should do it now...just hypothetically that they "should have" done it earlier. What a bunch of happy horse manure! You really are arguing nothing then, because that was NEVER going to happen as a result of anything the NCAA might have done...

I say: Go PSU Student Section! Carry on and have a blast during your 4 Undergraduate years. The Legal System had it's day in court. The NCAA got to come in and "pile on" in only the way that an organization that represents the college and university prexys as they strive to maximize the profits their institutions rake in from running the DANCE and now the Football Playoffs in the way they can appear to pile on. The NCAA is all about making big $$$$$ for the college and university prexys so they can run their athletic departments and hit their alumni and friends up for tax-free-charitable-contributions. The NCAA has NO teeth. The NCAA can NOT give the death penalty to MAJOR players such as the Ohio State, USC, Alabama or a select few. They can penalize with loss of scholarships, fines and in ways that imply they are being really tough. All the while: at the NCAA conventions, the prexys mingle, socialize, give each other compliments and talk about the new tv contracts and how much money it will mean for each of their respective institutions. The NCAA can NOT kill the golden geese...OR a conference member of one of their 5 "big money" conferences. This is a well-tuned money making organization for the beloved prexys of our national higher educational institutions and especially the 5 major conferences.

You can NOT be serious pompous elitist in thinking that the NCAA had ANY intent of putting the death penalty on PSU? Seriously, man...what a hoot! The NCAA might have WHACKED SMU (at the request of the University of Texas...or some of the other old boy schools way back then...just for appearance sake) but that would NEVER happen again. You are just plain talking crazy talk when you bitch that the NCAA didn't snuff or put a hit out on PSU...or USC...or Alabama...or the Ohio State University. Man, talking tough talk while referencing the NCAA is just too much! Now THAT is funny...

The NCAA is really a soft organization...way too soft to pull the trigger on a major college/university football program. The NCAA might act like it can play...but they really don't have the stones to play... They penalize A & M by making Johnny football sit for a quarter against a non competitive non-conference foe? Now THAT is the NCAA we all know and laugh at in the year 2014...

NO college football fans who have a program that took hits from the NCAA think they really deserved the hits. They are fans. They are fanatical. How out of touch are you to think that after all the stuff that came at PSU during the criminal trial and every news story that followed. When it was all done and the fans were going through the loss of scholarship and sanction stuff, did you really think that after the initial shock all PSU land would just lay down and be contrite to YOUR liking? And, PSU was attacked big time in a lot of ways. Any group of survivors would fight back, show some spunk, show some attitude and probably band together with their backs against the wall. That is the fight for survival in action. That is what will allow PSU to rise above all of the tragedy, angst, horror, shock and shame that I am sure they all felt as they learned more and more of the details. The Institution did suffer, go through shock, shame spirals and soul searching. And, it also will survive and will be productive and will rise above this sad, horrible chapter in it's history. It is more aware. Probably more aware now than MANY other areas of this nation that have been so quick to pass judgment upon the PSU tragedy.

Maybe PSU might not win so many football games this fall(and that is as it was designed to be by the punishments PSU has been given)...but...for their home games, they will have one hell of a good student section...a student section that is humbled, acutely aware and is changed. Perhaps this will allow PSU to rise as a better, stronger, more healthy Institution. No one knows when the next horrible situation will occur or just exactly where it will take place. Learn. Pay the legal price. Strive to be better. Be humble. Have some humility. Let there be healing. May things get better. In State College, PA...In Los Angeles, CA...in all the places in fly-over-land between those distant points. Don't judge too harshly...your school may be the next one to be judged.

But, no: the NCAA was NEVER going to kill the football program at PSU. That was never even a possibility.
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MNGoldenGophers1 said:
" Originally Posted by MNVCGUY
So what should happen? Do you give the school the death penalty? Do you keep on punishing players and coaches that didn't have anything to do with what happened? Do you expect the fans to abandon the program completely? You are making a lot of general assumptions about the fanbase and the personal beliefs of the 100,000+ that show up in Happy Valley on gameday. What happened with Paterno/Sandusky was a massive black eye for the program and the school. They have paid the price in the public and those that were guilty have been dealt with by the legal system. Paterno's reputation will always be tied to what happened under his watch. But all of that happened in the past, the students and fans should be allowed to support the program and not feel guilty about it."


Yes, PSU (Pedophile State University) should have been given the death penalty but unfortunately that won't happen now. Do you really think a "black-eye" is all they deserved? If you don't punish the institution with severe penalties for severe crimes, you did little to change the behavior (just look at the Catholic Church).

This is some serious sick sh!t and I don't give a rats azz what the poor coaches, players and fans think. I'm more interested in what the victims think and whether they believe there has been a fair punishment. Ask yourself, if you or your child was the victim of such a crime, would you be okay with the perpetrator getting a black-eye? If so, get help, a lot of help!
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The perpetrator is in jail for life, the enabler of the perpetrator is dead and the enabler of the enabler(Curley and Spanier) are no longer at the institution. Much more than a black eye.
 

Quote Originally Posted by station19 View Post
"For those of you that keep harping for PSU to get the death penalty, you are either:
Morally vain Maybe, this is a non-argument. You want to argue about morals? When have I ever wrote they deserve the death penalty? Did you notice to who this was addressed?
Think football and the ncaa are all-important. No, that would be the PSU of Paterno. Every organization needs rules. I don't think this should be news? Is it? Yes, I have heard organizations have rules. The ncaa does not have rules for child rape, murder, burglary, insider trading, speeding......I could go on if you like.
Or just plain forgot we have a legal system" I have no idea what you mean by this. The criminal justice system and the NCAA are two separate entities and have different functions. Does this need to be explained?? You don't know the meaning of the word 'forgot'. You are correct though that the ncaa in criminal justice systems are two separate entities....but the criminal justice system is the law of the land and much more important. I always like how some bozo on GH a few month ago claimed the criminal justice system was not equipped to handle these cases, but the ncaa was.


In case you missed it the first time.

My responses in blue.
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My respsonses in RED
 

This is getting way beyond whether it's ok to ridicule the institution of Penn State.

The bottom line of all the NCAA rules is to prevent an uneven playing field, to the extent possible under the current rules.

Obviously this was a criminal matter but think about it, what was the intent of hiding the crime?

If it had NO bearing on the football program status, recruiting, JoePa's reputation etc etc etc then why was it swept under the rug? Isn't it reasonable to think they were trying to protect those things and therefore it IS an NCAA matter.
 

Pompous Elitist said:
This is getting way beyond whether it's ok to ridicule the institution of Penn State.

The bottom line of all the NCAA rules is to prevent an uneven playing field, to the extent possible under the current rules.

Obviously this was a criminal matter but think about it, what was the intent of hiding the crime?

If it had NO bearing on the football program status, recruiting, JoePa's reputation etc etc etc then why was it swept under the rug? Isn't it reasonable to think they were trying to protect those things and therefore it IS an NCAA matter.
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When was it ever about if it's ok to 'ridicule' PSU?

You have no idea what the intent of the cover-up was. It may have been because they were buddies of Sandusky and didn't want to get him in trouble.

You seem to assume what you like to support your agenda.
 


station19 said:
When was it ever about if it's ok to 'ridicule' PSU?

You have no idea what the intent of the cover-up was. It may have been because they were buddies of Sandusky and didn't want to get him in trouble.

You seem to assume what you like to support your agenda.
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The audience is laughing, and they're not laughing with you.
 

Pompous Elitist said:
The issue most people have is the belief most Perv State fans never understood why they were being persecuted. The natural inclination is the desire to punish the unrepentant. Unfortunatly the wiser PSU fans were drowned out by the tone deaf. Perv State shall remain so for a very, very long time.
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I'm taking a pretty easy guess that you just haven't bothered to read enough about the subject or to understand the facts behind the case to even attempt to understand the general PSU fans' viewpoint. Or that you also haven't bothered to even try to understand why PSU fans might try to rally behind their broken team and world. As Station19 said, you likely have "moral vanity."

I mean, a Pompous Elitist is always superior to everyone else, right?
 

imthewalrus said:
The bottom line is that obviously the students at PSU love attending football games. I don't think either the most forgiving OR the most pious of people on this Minnesota-based message board have a clue just how much Saturday Afternoons in the fall are just meant to go out to the football game on the PSU campus and have an enjoyable time... and to carry on this event in spite of all that has occurred. It is what you would call TRADITION. That is pretty much something that a lot of the Judges/judgettes on this board do not understand. YOU people try to assign your own biased and highly emotional, political, religious, socially just/correct opinions on to the way you think EVERYONE "ought" to respond. Then YOU people pick your sides and try to ramrod your biased opinion down the throats of everyone else and try to bash (in this case) all of PSU.

I guess your reactionary/judgmental theory doesn't explain anything going on with the student football fans at PSU. Perhaps to them it has NOTHING to do with the horrible, tragic events that some of you feel it "should" be all about. Maybe it is just as simple as "healing" a deep wound. Perhaps it is about letting justice and the system do what justice and the system is supposed to do in the case of a horrific crime and then picking up the pieces and moving on. Maybe it is all about sadness, shame, grief, guilt, and the ONLY way to begin to deal with all of the tragedy, the shame spiral, the horror of what happened and to "GO ON WITH LIFE..." Maybe the campus in State College, PA can show the world that they have had tragedy and horrible things perpetrated on their campus and that they will NOT let the tragedy and horror dominate their campus any longer.

...
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Nice post, Wren.
 


Pompous Elitist said:
This is getting way beyond whether it's ok to ridicule the institution of Penn State.

The bottom line of all the NCAA rules is to prevent an uneven playing field, to the extent possible under the current rules.

Obviously this was a criminal matter but think about it, what was the intent of hiding the crime?

If it had NO bearing on the football program status, recruiting, JoePa's reputation etc etc etc then why was it swept under the rug? Isn't it reasonable to think they were trying to protect those things and therefore it IS an NCAA matter.
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Why are you so certain that "it [was] swept under the rug"? What was, exactly, and what proof do you have? Only two people know what McQueary told Paterno the morning after the incident. One is dead, the other (the eyewitness) is telling multiple tales now that he's scrutinized in the public eye. Indications are that McQueary did NOT share the gory details of what he THOUGHT he saw, at least not to Paterno. PSU did a piss poor job of "sweeping things under the rug", if they were conspiring to "hide" things, since they contacted the Second Mile charity about the incident, and others. If you're attempting to keep secrets, you don't tell other people.

Paterno did his legal obligation. Did he do enough? HE said, in hindsight, that he wishes he did more. It's pretty clear he didn't comprehend the magnitude of McQueary's accusation (thus, likely that McQueary didn't relay a very strong story to his aging mentor). That said, there was nothing, legally, that Paterno could do. In fact, it may have been illegal for him to act further.

So it's up to Curley, Schultz, and Spanier; given the information they had: did they do enough in legal and in moral terms? Their trial has not even begun yet. So maybe you can wait and see what details come out before jumping to your emotional conclusions based almost solely on imagination, talking-head opinions, and anecdotes. Or not.

As for PSU, the student body has raised $Millions and Millions to combat child abuse. And they had nothing to do with anything. Seems to me their work and actions have done a hell of a lot to combat child abuse (have you done anything?). The current body at PSU purged all known perpetrators of the alleged incident, agreed to pay extremely large fines before any trial, and has made very large efforts toward anti-child abuse education and charity. But you judge them negatively nonetheless.
 

cncmin said:
I'm taking a pretty easy guess that you just haven't bothered to read enough about the subject or to understand the facts behind the case to even attempt to understand the general PSU fans' viewpoint. Or that you also haven't bothered to even try to understand why PSU fans might try to rally behind their broken team and world. As Station19 said, you likely have "moral vanity."

I mean, a Pompous Elitist is always superior to everyone else, right?
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I know who I am. Thus the name. I was going to go with "generally an ***hole" but for the language.

If having "moral vanity" is wrong then I don't want to be right.

What makes you think I haven't read about this case, in depth?

You are correct about one thing, we'll learn more as the trial unfolds. Making excuses and searching for the least ugly scenario is nice, but doesn't get us closer to the truth.

In the meantime, we'll always have the images of the rioting, the statue(s) controversy, and the general tone deafness of some of the fans given a microphone. Those are facts you can't whitewash.
 

Pompous Elitist said:
I know who I am. Thus the name. I was going to go with "generally an ***hole" but for the language.

If having "moral vanity" is wrong then I don't want to be right.

What makes you think I haven't read about this case, in depth?

You are correct about one thing, we'll learn more as the trial unfolds. Making excuses and searching for the least ugly scenario is nice, but doesn't get us closer to the truth.

In the meantime, we'll always have the images of the rioting, the statue(s) controversy, and the general tone deafness of some of the fans given a microphone. Those are facts you can't whitewash.
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So what you're saying is PSU should be punished by the ncaa for having some idiot fans? Look out University of Minnesota.
 


die hard gopher said:
The perpetrator is in jail for life, the enabler of the perpetrator is dead and the enabler of the enabler(Curley and Spanier) are no longer at the institution. Much more than a black eye.
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I wasn't the one to say black eye but O.K. A black eye and a slap on the wrist by the NCAA.
 

MNGoldenGophers1 said:
I wasn't the one to say black eye but O.K. A black eye and a slap on the wrist by the NCAA.
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Some of the harshest penalties ever doled out by the NCAA - and on a subject to which they had no formal jurisdiction - and YOU call them a "slap on the wrist." Wow, just wow. This is what I mean, Mr. Pompous Elitist (I know you didn't write this post of subject), when I say that the vast majority of you emotional overlords really are clueless on the subject. Yes, I'd very much bet, PE, that you haven't studied the subject much, otherwise you'd know better.
 

The NCAA is its own judge and jury.

I keep hearing this narrative that they overstepped their bounds and this has NOTHING to do with football or the program. I disagree.

Now if they had to abide by another organization's findings you might have a point that they overstepped.

Ask USC about ridiculous sanctions.
 

When you're getting taken to school by Wren, of all people, you should probably just concede defeat and limp away.
 

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