***OFFICIAL PURDUE AT MINNESOTA AFTERNOON IN-GAME THREAD!!!***

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Fine with a change as long as it is a good choice!!!!!! 😂😂😂😂😂😂

Brilliant!

“We” aren’t making a change. Marky is in charge.
 

leib0039 said:
I mean I suppose it would just be the same with any coach, but I think the case for RP getting the ax is this message board, every discussion turns into 3-4 people saying RP is doing great things and 10-15 saying how terrible he is :ROFLMAO:
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Complainers like to complain, know-it-alls like to let you know they know-it-all and arm chair quarterbacks are a dime a dozen
 



forever a gopher said:
I'm genuinely intrigued as to how you can come to this conclusion. Any debate is obviously just for kicks, as it would seem both you and I have made up our minds and are solidly sticking to either end of the argument. But I would love to hear a reasoning as to how this could be even called anything better than mediocre. I suppose it would depend on your definition of mediocrity. By definition, being mediocre puts you in the languishing center of anything, neither great nor terrible. Looking at records, Pitino over the past 4.5 years (your reference point) is 38-51 in conference (.426). An elite coach we just played, Matt Painter, over that same span is 62-29 (.681). A .426 winning percentage, by definition is mediocre. You could probably even call it sub-mediocre, as mediocre is essentially .500.

Could you come up with a way to define this stretch of time as anything greater than mediocre without using the term IF? As in, you can't use the phrase, "IF player xx didn't get hurt...", or "IF player xx wasn't a complete ass-clown and stayed eligible...", or "IF this team made more of their shots...". That is because, of course, the IF's of the world cut both ways. What would this season be like IF Carr were to get hurt? Also, the world doesn't live in IF's. It lives in facts. Some coaches/programs excel IN SPITE of all the IF's. And some don't.
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Ifs are real life. For example, i wouldnt fire an employee who failed a task if the failure was due to circumstances beyond his control.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
But - do "all coaches" just let the guard go 1-on-1, or do they try to set him up by running something - pick-& roll, set some screens, run some motion - do something other than 4 guys stand and watch while 1 guy tries to create his own shot with no help from any teammates?

It's the difference between having a plan, and crossing your fingers.

yes - Carr has talent. He is capable of making things happen. But, I think the odds of it being successful would be greatly increased if the final shot was set up off a play as opposed to hoping Carr can do it all by himself.

Carr is not Jimmie Chitwood. he is not going to hit that shot every time. Just once, would be nice to see them run Merle off the picket fence. the way Gabe was shooting, I would have been fine with a play set up to spring Gabe for an open-look "3."
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It is extremely common to clear out for a guard in end of game situation. As i said, purdue cleared out for ivey who hit a step back 3 to beat ohio state.
 

bga1 said:
I question the development of Ihnen as well. As I have said before, he reminds me of a frosh Willie Burton. But Clem made Burton earn his time going to the hoop inside before he was allowed to shoot threes. If Ihnen were told to drive an post up and they worked that relentlessly in practice, I think he could do it.

Agree also on Freeman.
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Ihnen reminds me of Charles Buggs. You can see there is talent there, but the kid just doesn't have the personality to rise to get the most out of his talent.
 



golf said:
It is extremely common to clear out for a guard in end of game situation. As i said, purdue cleared out for ivey who hit a step back 3 to beat ohio state.
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Nebraska has done this multiple times tonight. So has Illinois. Two pretty highly regarded coaches.
 

golf said:
Ifs are real life. For example, i wouldnt fire an employee who failed a task if the failure was due to circumstances beyond his control.
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Hmm...I’m genuinely disappointed. I was hoping you could come up with a coherent reason that used some sort of logic. Instead, the best reason as to why he is better than mediocre is “nothing that goes wrong is his fault”?
 

forever a gopher said:
Hmm...I’m genuinely disappointed. I was hoping you could come up with a coherent reason that used some sort of logic. Instead, the best reason as to why he is better than mediocre is “nothing that goes wrong is his fault”?
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Sorry to disappoint
 

WriterGoph said:
I'd be fine with a change if we make a good choice (pretty confident in Coyle to do that). I'm just not going to worry about it until the season is over. No point in letting something so out of our control ruin watching current games (which based on many posters' negativity during games - even after good wins, lol - it definitely is ruining them like the Q virus). I mean, some of these people can cheer until they're blue in the face for us to lose out from here, but given this current COVID environment, there is hardly any guarantee that Coyle would make a move.

Given that, I'll just stay in the present and enjoy some basketball.
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No doubt that is the way to go.
 



Some guy said:
1) I don’t think anybody loses any elligibility in any sports in 20-21
So if you’re a RS soph, you’re still a RS soph next year

2) when the gophers are shooting well the gophers offense is great. The problem is the gophers are like 300th in the country in shooting

3) I thought he should be gone in 2019 but I trust Coyle to make a choice. If he keeps him around it means Coyle has confidence he will keep getting better And doesn’t think that the replacement would be a significant upgrade
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Your points 2 and three are spot on and sum it up well. It’s so funny to read the game-day comments about how great we played when we win and how terrible we played (and poorly we coached) when we lost. The reality is that , for the most part, we have consistently gotten a high rate of open shots-and missed at an awful percentage. In today’s game, open threes are the next best thing to dunks. Pitino thought he finally had a team of good three-point shooters to start the season. He said it several times. Problem is Gabe lost his shot, Gach has been awful, Mashburn has been subpar, Williams is subpar, and as a result, Teams have been able to swarm Carr, severely limiting his open three attempts.
So, on the rare night we get hot, we look like a Final Four team (Iowa game).

Now that the evidence is clear, teams can sag on defense and invite us to chuck bricks and lay cement. Makes it really tough to coach offense when your guys often can’t even hit the rim! I don’t remember one season with this many air-balls. With that said, I think there is still a ray of hope. Gabe finally had a confidence-building game. If he can rediscover his freshman form, and Mash can find his stroke, we could finish out very nicely.
 

Bordergopher said:
Your points 2 and three are spot on and sum it up well. It’s so funny to read the game-day comments about how great we played when we win and how terrible we played (and poorly we coached) when we lost. The reality is that , for the most part, we have consistently gotten a high rate of open shots-and missed at an awful percentage. In today’s game, open threes are the next best thing to dunks. Pitino thought he finally had a team of good three-point shooters to start the season. He said it several times. Problem is Gabe lost his shot, Gach has been awful, Mashburn has been subpar, Williams is subpar, and as a result, Teams have been able to swarm Carr, severely limiting his open three attempts.
So, on the rare night we get hot, we look like a Final Four team (Iowa game).

Now that the evidence is clear, teams can sag on defense and invite us to chuck bricks and lay cement. Makes it really tough to coach offense when your guys often can’t even hit the rim! I don’t remember one season with this many air-balls. With that said, I think there is still a ray of hope. Gabe finally had a confidence-building game. If he can rediscover his freshman form, and Mash can find his stroke, we could finish out very nicely.
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I mean seriously, right? For those of you that follow any favorite high school team, do they shoot more air balls than the gophers? Probably not.
 

golf said:
So mashburn will be listed as a freshman next season?
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He shouldn't be.

He just has the ability to be a super senior (play a 5th season), if he wants to down the road.
 

golf said:
If just looking at big ten standings through 8 seasons then u are correct. Again, to me 3 out of 5 and 4 out of 5 are determinative. I also was extremely impressed how pitino brought along the 2016-17 and 18-19 teams. Doubt if painter could have got that much out of those teams.
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Stop with this bullshit.

"3 of 5" is false. Pitino is 2 for 7 making the tournament.

Let me repeat: Pitino has made 2 (two) NCAA tournaments while head coach of the Gophers.

Two.

IF he makes it this year he'll be 3 for 8. If you want to say 3 for 8, including 3 of the last 5, ok. But that hasn't happened yet, so stop stating it has.

And "4 for 5" is completely false. "Woulda, coulda, shoulda" is for losers.
 
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USAF said:
Stop with this bullshit.

"3 of 5" is false. Pitino is 2 for 7 making the tournament.

IF he makes it this year he'll be 3 for 8. If you want to say 3 for 8, including 3 of the last 5, ok. But that hasn't happened yet, so stop stating it has.

And "4 for 5" is completely false. "Woulda, coulda, shoulda" is for losers.
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It is OK to face the factual record and to pretend other programs did not have any health problems. Excuses are for losers and create delusion of truth.
 

golf said:
Ifs are real life. For example, i wouldnt fire an employee who failed a task if the failure was due to circumstances beyond his control.
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It's not just "if." You're making "if, then" statements as IF they were factual.

As in...."IF this didn't happen to the Gophers, THEN they would make the tournament."

You can't know that.

And you CERTAINLY don't get to give them credit for it.
 

BarnBurner said:
Fine with a change as long as it is a good choice!!!!!! 😂😂😂😂😂😂

Brilliant!

“We” aren’t making a change. Marky is in charge.
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Hiring Mark Wahlberg to replace Pitino is brilliant!

He at least may be able to "act like a coach during games"!
 

USAF said:
It's not just "if." You're making "if, then" statements as IF they were factual.

As in...."IF this didn't happen to the Gophers, THEN they would make the tournament."

You can't know that.

And you CERTAINLY don't get to give them credit for it.
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Wouldve almost certainly made tourney in 17-18 without all the player games lost. Wouldve been then 4 out of 5 if make dance this year. Facts.

Again, if i had an employee who had a task set up for success but then was unable to complete the task due to circumstances beyond his control, i would consider that a job well done. This is what happened in 17-18 - lots of player games lost from a team that had only lost springs from ncaa tourney team.
 

golf said:
Wouldve almost certainly made tourney in 17-18 without all the player games lost. Wouldve been then 4 out of 5 if make dance this year. Facts.

Again, if i had an employee who had a task set up for success but then was unable to complete the task due to circumstances beyond his control, i would consider that a job well done. This is what happened in 17-18 - lots of player games lost from a team that had only lost springs from ncaa tourney team.
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I get what you mean, I really do. But I also have some serious concerns about using that to keep Pitino. You don’t get fired because of that season but the remainder of the seasons are cause for concern. Had he finished top 5 in the conference in 5 of his seasons for example, then that wouldn’t be held against him. But his subpar conference record is s subpar if that albatross is thrown out.
 

UpAndUnder43 said:
I get what you mean, I really do. But I also have some serious concerns about using that to keep Pitino. You don’t get fired because of that season but the remainder of the seasons are cause for concern. Had he finished top 5 in the conference in 5 of his seasons for example, then that wouldn’t be held against him. But his subpar conference record is s subpar if that albatross is thrown out.
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I think all of us would view 16-17 and 18-19 as successful or very successful. So then either 2 out of 3 or 3 out of 4 of last seasons are successful, depending how one wants to treat 17-18. This season is pending.

To me this doesnt merit the pounding Coach Pitino gets by some. I trust Coyle to make the right call after the season regarding going forward. If he feel recruiting/coaching is subpar then he should make a change.
 

UpAndUnder43 said:
I get what you mean, I really do. But I also have some serious concerns about using that to keep Pitino. You don’t get fired because of that season but the remainder of the seasons are cause for concern. Had he finished top 5 in the conference in 5 of his seasons for example, then that wouldn’t be held against him. But his subpar conference record is s subpar if that albatross is thrown out.
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The issue at this point is not a season here or there, but about momentum. I'm seeing this unfolding a lot like Tubby. A decent season, with some talent on board, but a non-descript recruiting class coming in and little momentum in the program. Pandemic spreads a load on the comparison, but the base situation is pretty similar. The decision makers need to decide whether recalibrating the program is worth the cost.

Put me in the camp that says Coyle has already made a decision and little to nothing that happens between now and the end of March will change that. Also put me in the camp of believing the jury is still out on Coyle. Three major hires. One successful so far in Fleck. One major splash in Whalen (but not enough on-court success yet to say great hire just yet), and Motzko ( I don't know enough about hockey to know for sure-good steps forward, but also had a history of teams flaming out in the post season at St. Cloud). That's one for three, with two good but undetermined possibilities. That's not enough for me to automatically assume he makes a great hire. I would not want to be him. Huge decision with more financial limitations than ever before.
 

golf said:
I think all of us would view 16-17 and 18-19 as successful or very successful. So then either 2 out of 3 or 3 out of 4 of last seasons are successful, depending how one wants to treat 17-18. This season is pending.

To me this doesnt merit the pounding Coach Pitino gets by some. I trust Coyle to make the right call after the season regarding going forward. If he feel recruiting/coaching is subpar then he should make a change.
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Agreed. The conversation takes on a tone of advocacy of a position rather than analysis pretty quickly. The question Coyle has to answer is if he believes restoring momentum is even possible after eight years. See above, but I'm not completely convinced Coyle will make a great decision.
 

golf said:
I think all of us would view 16-17 and 18-19 as successful or very successful. So then either 2 out of 3 or 3 out of 4 of last seasons are successful, depending how one wants to treat 17-18. This season is pending.

To me this doesnt merit the pounding Coach Pitino gets by some. I trust Coyle to make the right call after the season regarding going forward. If he feel recruiting/coaching is subpar then he should make a change.
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I agree he gets needlessly pounded on here but his conference record is abysmal. The team hasn’t really improved. Lots of issues in recruiting, player development, etc. I like the guy and wish he would win enough to be here forever but he hasn’t done that.

I want to see how this year plays out but what indications are there that next season will be on par with this or better? To me—none.
 

UpAndUnder43 said:
I agree he gets needlessly pounded on here but his conference record is abysmal. The team hasn’t really improved. Lots of issues in recruiting, player development, etc. I like the guy and wish he would win enough to be here forever but he hasn’t done that.

I want to see how this year plays out but what indications are there that next season will be on par with this or better? To me—none.
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Will agree with you on recruiting. Am sure Coyle will consider conference record in any decision making process.
 
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Holy Man said:
The issue at this point is not a season here or there, but about momentum. I'm seeing this unfolding a lot like Tubby. A decent season, with some talent on board, but a non-descript recruiting class coming in and little momentum in the program. Pandemic spreads a load on the comparison, but the base situation is pretty similar. The decision makers need to decide whether recalibrating the program is worth the cost.

Put me in the camp that says Coyle has already made a decision and little to nothing that happens between now and the end of March will change that. Also put me in the camp of believing the jury is still out on Coyle. Three major hires. One successful so far in Fleck. One major splash in Whalen (but not enough on-court success yet to say great hire just yet), and Motzko ( I don't know enough about hockey to know for sure-good steps forward, but also had a history of teams flaming out in the post season at St. Cloud). That's one for three, with two good but undetermined possibilities. That's not enough for me to automatically assume he makes a great hire. I would not want to be him. Huge decision with more financial limitations than ever before.
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Yeah, will disagree with u on fleck and whalen looks promising imo. I would say closer to 3 out of 3 so personally feel confident coyle will make the best decision goung forward for bb as well.
 

UpAndUnder43 said:
I agree he gets needlessly pounded on here but his conference record is abysmal. The team hasn’t really improved. Lots of issues in recruiting, player development, etc. I like the guy and wish he would win enough to be here forever but he hasn’t done that.

I want to see how this year plays out but what indications are there that next season will be on par with this or better? To me—none.
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Really tough to see right now a better season next year. But transfers are the name of the game right now.
 

golf said:
Yeah, will disagree with u on fleck and whalen looks promising imo. I would say closer to 3 out of 3 so personally feel confident coyle will make the best decision goung forward for bb as well.
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You're not on board with Fleck as a good hire? Okay.

I guess where we disagree is the difference between promising and actual success. I do agree Whalen is promising but I haven't seen enough on-court success to declare it a success yet. Motzko could be in the same category, but his standards are a lot higher than other sports, too.
 

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