***OFFICIAL MINNESOTA VS SOUTH DAKOTA STATE IN-GAME THREAD***

Donate To GopherHole
gogopher said:
Coach got a free pass for this year,because of the recruits he's landed for next year.In my opinion he has a lot to prove.
Click to expand...

His leash is getting shorter with each of these losses, it is becoming painfully obvious that if Konate isn't on the court they had better man to man press every inch of the court on defense, without someone that can protect the rim everything opens up for the other team.
 

I agree that the loss to U of South Dakota was a way worse loss than tonight vs SDSU but I was shocked at how they really blew us out. Come on Pitino time to teach and turn this around.
 


I hope we see a lot more full court pressure with a lineup of Mason, Dorsey, McBrayer, Murphy and Konate. Slow it down and bring in Morris and King and Buggs, then speed it back up. Play our brand with the future guys, and bring in the "captains" to pass the ball around.
 

One irritation I have is that D1 programs like ours (and we're are far from being alone) typically don't get top line talent, so we make sacrifices. The players are usually lacking something: height, athleticism, ball handling, shooting, court sense/BB IQ, defensive quickness or effort, etc. Schools like S. Dakota St. Usually opt for shooters, though they don't always have the size or athleticism to go high-major. Under both Tubby and Pitino I get the impression that they value size and athleticism and often take mediocre shooters. Then we don't even really utilize that athleticism (never press, play weak on the ball and depend on weak side help too much, don't rebound aggressively, etc). I realize Joey is an example counter to this observation, but in general we haven't had rosters that could light it up, which really kills us when our offense seems to scheme to get 3s (or fails to get anything but).
Murphy seems to be a more complete player, and I'm hopeful for Coffey next year, but we're going to take some ugly losses unless we have hot shooting games this year.
 


Maybe Barry Alverez and the Jim Delaney could make an announcement that the B1G is no longer scheduling DI basketball schools that have DI FCS football, in an effort to strengthen their basketball schedules. (IALTO) I'm sure that Barry is hard at work looking for an angle after the WI loss to Western.
 

goldenboy said:
One irritation I have is that D1 programs like ours (and we're are far from being alone) typically don't get top line talent, so we make sacrifices. The players are usually lacking something: height, athleticism, ball handling, shooting, court sense/BB IQ, defensive quickness or effort, etc. Schools like S. Dakota St. Usually opt for shooters, though they don't always have the size or athleticism to go high-major. Under both Tubby and Pitino I get the impression that they value size and athleticism and often take mediocre shooters. Then we don't even really utilize that athleticism (never press, play weak on the ball and depend on weak side help too much, don't rebound aggressively, etc). I realize Joey is an example counter to this observation, but in general we haven't had rosters that could light it up, which really kills us when our offense seems to scheme to get 3s (or fails to get anything but).
Murphy seems to be a more complete player, and I'm hopeful for Coffey next year, but we're going to take some ugly losses unless we have hot shooting games this year.
Click to expand...

That's good analysis. The overarching concept is that you need to have a plan and an identity, and then you have to execute that plan and assume that identity - and, of course, it has to be successful. The good programs at schools similar to the U do this well. They know who they are, they have a viable plan, they recruit to that approach, and they don't have delusions of grandeur about the type of player they can get or the style of basketball they can play.
 

Cayman said:
Joey King is shooting 54% from the field, 53% from 3, and 92% from the free throw line so far this season. There is nothing wrong with having that guy be your best shooter. Unless you're referring to his struggles to create his own shot on offense, in which case having him be your best shooter still isn't a problem as long as you have a guy who can hit close to 40% from 3 who can also handle and get space between himself and defenders to shoot.

For instance, he would be the best 3 point shooter for Michigan State as well, and that wouldn't pose a problem for Michigan State. Hell he'd probably be shooting even better than he currently is because he would be like their 4th scoring option.
Click to expand...

Its a problem in games like this when he isnt on there isnt anyone else to pick up the slack. Nobody is debating his shooting pwrcentages.
 

I said it before the season and I'll say it again. Joey and Carlos need to be coming off the bench. get the young guys in there for development and the Seniors come in against the 2nd unit and excel.

C - Konate
F - Murphy
G - McBrayer
G - Mason
G - Dorsey
 



Slim Tubby said:
I said it before the season and I'll say it again. Joey and Carlos need to be coming off the bench. get the young guys in there for development and the Seniors come in against the 2nd unit and excel.

C - Konate
F - Murphy
G - McBrayer
G - Mason
G - Dorsey
Click to expand...

I'd support this 100%. I think it will be hard for Pitino to put King on the bench, but he'd still get plenty of time even coming off the bench.

Go Gophers!!
 

Slim Tubby said:
I said it before the season and I'll say it again. Joey and Carlos need to be coming off the bench. get the young guys in there for development and the Seniors come in against the 2nd unit and excel
Click to expand...

So, the message you would send to your team and potential recruits (as coach) is that, when you pay your dues on my team and are a junior or senior, even if you are the best player here, I am going to sit you on the bench if we are having a bad season to get the young guys some reps. That would be really good for motivation, accountability and getting guys to stay.
 

CentralGopher said:
Its a problem in games like this when he isnt on there isnt anyone else to pick up the slack. Nobody is debating his shooting pwrcentages.
Click to expand...

You said it was a problem that Joey King is our best shooter, which to me implied that you thought it was a problem that no one else on the team is matching or exceeding his fantastic 53% 3pt shooting percentage. It sounds like what you meant is that there aren't enough good shooters on the team, which I think is a more reasonable concern, as Mason's 3pt shooting has only been okay so far, though Morris and Buggs have both shot well from distance.
 

goldy93 said:
So, the message you would send to your team and potential recruits (as coach) is that, when you pay your dues on my team and are a junior or senior, even if you are the best player here, I am going to sit you on the bench if we are having a bad season to get the young guys some reps. That would be really good for motivation, accountability and getting guys to stay.
Click to expand...

Agree. I think Joey King would be rightfully a little a peeved at being benched so that we could start playing for next season less than a third of the way through the current season. He's also probably the closest thing this team has to a vocal leader, and he's our leading scorer, and we can still at least try to win a few games. Plus I'm not sure how helpful it is to throw all your underclassmen out there and say "there you go, get out there and get better at basketball." I think it would help them more to have a veteran like King on the floor to help them learn and teach them on the court when they need it.
 



Have never understood the "bench the seniors for the future of the program" mentality. These coaches are paid to win, and if Pitino thinks upperclassmen Joey King, Carlos Morris, and Buggsy give the Gophers a better chance to win/compete, he'll play them. Obviously vs. South Dakota State, he didn't think so.

A coach can have an eye for the future by giving his younger players plenty of PT, and at the same time that doesn't mean you do it just for the sake of taking a dump on your seniors. And I say that as someone who's been on the McBrayer & Murphy bandwagon since the first time I saw them play.
 

Winasota Gopher said:
I hope we see a lot more full court pressure with a lineup of Mason, Dorsey, McBrayer, Murphy and Konate. Slow it down and bring in Morris and King and Buggs, then speed it back up. Play our brand with the future guys, and bring in the "captains" to pass the ball around.
Click to expand...

I was surprised that the Gophers didn't put more full-court pressure and trap more with Marshall not playing for the Jacks. When they finally did it late in the second half, it did have some success.
 

goldy93 said:
So, the message you would send to your team and potential recruits (as coach) is that, when you pay your dues on my team and are a junior or senior, even if you are the best player here, I am going to sit you on the bench if we are having a bad season to get the young guys some reps. That would be really good for motivation, accountability and getting guys to stay.
Click to expand...

So Morris and King are our best players? Debatable on King but certainly not Morris. You think recruits get excited knowing they have to ride the pine early on even if they're more talented than the upperclassmen. You must coach HS hockey. Pitino's only obligation is to do what's best for the development of the program...not worry about player's feelings. And I really do believe that King and Morris would serve this team best coming off the bench. Like Bleed said, they'll still get their minutes.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

bigticket1 said:
I was surprised that the Gophers didn't put more full-court pressure and trap more with Marshall not playing for the Jacks. When they finally did it late in the second half, it did have some success.
Click to expand...

Overall, that's what I thought we were getting with this regime. Win or lose, there'd be some entertainment value to it. What's the risk? Easy baskets by the other team? What have we been getting with our half-court defense? Yes, easy baskets by the other team.
 

Bad Gopher said:
Overall, that's what I thought we were getting with this regime. Win or lose, there'd be some entertainment value to it. What's the risk? Easy baskets by the other team? What have we been getting with our half-court defense? Yes, easy baskets by the other team.
Click to expand...

This is my biggest issue with this team. We've been hearing we now have the personnel to play this style we've been selling, but I don't see any urgency to press or push the ball in transition.
 

I'd like to see us play more press too but I think our depth is the main thing holding us back there. There's no excuse for doing it as little as we have, especially when it has looked pretty, but I still think that depth must have a lot to do with it. And a few certain players who probably make him worry about getting burned by it
 

underground629 said:
I'd like to see us play more press too but I think our depth is the main thing holding us back there. There's no excuse for doing it as little as we have, especially when it has looked pretty, but I still think that depth must have a lot to do with it. And a few certain players who probably make him worry about getting burned by it
Click to expand...

This starts to remind me of the cover-2 zone defense in football. It works great...if you have at least one hall-of-fame-caliber player at each level of the defense.
 

Slim Tubby said:
So Morris and King are our best players? Debatable on King but certainly not Morris. You think recruits get excited knowing they have to ride the pine early on even if they're more talented than the upperclassmen. You must coach HS hockey. Pitino's only obligation is to do what's best for the development of the program...not worry about player's feelings. And I really do believe that King and Morris would serve this team best coming off the bench. Like Bleed said, they'll still get their minutes.
Click to expand...

So Morris and King are our best players? Debatable on King but certainly not Morris.

I never said that; however, unfortunately that is correct. Currently, they are both in the top 3 in several categories (points, rebounds, 3-pt%). I never said anything about talent. Maybe some of the younger guys are more gifted athletically, but that does not mean they are better than the seniors.

You think recruits get excited knowing they have to ride the pine early on even if they're more talented than the upperclassmen.

I could care less what they think, nor do I think Pitino cares. He is going to play the best players, which is why Mason played as a freshman.

You must coach HS hockey.

Nope. What do you have against HS hockey coaches?

Pitino's only obligation is to do what's best for the development of the program...not worry about player's feelings.

Completely agree, which is why I think he could care less if freshmen get their feelings hurt riding the pine behind seniors that are better than them at this stage.

And I really do believe that King and Morris would serve this team best coming off the bench.

That is your opinion.
 

goldy93 said:
So Morris and King are our best players? Debatable on King but certainly not Morris.

I never said that; however, unfortunately that is correct. Currently, they are both in the top 3 in several categories (points, rebounds, 3-pt%). I never said anything about talent. Maybe some of the younger guys are more gifted athletically, but that does not mean they are better than the seniors.

You think recruits get excited knowing they have to ride the pine early on even if they're more talented than the upperclassmen.

I could care less what they think, nor do I think Pitino cares. He is going to play the best players, which is why Mason played as a freshman.

You must coach HS hockey.

Nope. What do you have against HS hockey coaches?

Pitino's only obligation is to do what's best for the development of the program...not worry about player's feelings.

Completely agree, which is why I think he could care less if freshmen get their feelings hurt riding the pine behind seniors that are better than them at this stage.

And I really do believe that King and Morris would serve this team best coming off the bench.

That is your opinion.
Click to expand...

And all of this is YOUR opinion but please let me defer to you as an "expert". King and Morris sure looked like our best players tonight, though. [emoji6]

News flash...we aren't winning this year and need to get the younger players experience at the expense of our seniors. Or would you prefer to play Morris and King more minutes so we're even more behind the 8 ball next year? Unbelievable rationale....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Cayman said:
You said it was a problem that Joey King is our best shooter, which to me implied that you thought it was a problem that no one else on the team is matching or exceeding his fantastic 53% 3pt shooting percentage. It sounds like what you meant is that there aren't enough good shooters on the team, which I think is a more reasonable concern, as Mason's 3pt shooting has only been okay so far, though Morris and Buggs have both shot well from distance.
Click to expand...

Yes my original comment was mainly in regards to there not being enough good shooters on the team and not 3pt percentage. Others on this board put that in the discussion.
 

CentralGopher said:
Yes my original comment was mainly in regards to there not being enough good shooters on the team and not 3pt percentage. Others on this board put that in the discussion.
Click to expand...

CentralGopher said:
Good read but a little concerned that Joey king is our best shooter. He's a hard worker and good kid and I do love him on this team but we should have better shooters than him on this team.
Click to expand...

CentralGopher said:
I really shouldn't have to explain it to you. Love Joey but he is a flawed and very limited player. We shouldn't have to rely on someone who would be a bench player on most teams. It is where we are right now so I don't expect much from the team this year.
Click to expand...
This is exactly what you said. You didn't articulate your point clearly/changed your point after your intial post. No one on this board brought anything into the discussion as you made a statement that wasn't very sound.

As you continued in the conversation your new point is very valid and is proving to be factual.
 

Apparently my point was not clear to you. At no point did i say he was not a good three point shooter or that he was not a good shooter at all. My posts only said that the team was in trouble since they lacked other shooters as good or nearly as good to pick up the slack when he was not having a good night. At no time did i change my point in any of my posts. You just missed the point.
 

You must log in or register to reply here.



Top Bottom