***OFFICIAL MINNESOTA AT wisconsin IN-GAME THREAD!!!***

The offense would look better if they would get the ball into Payne when he sits down on the low blocks. They missed him in there at least four times that I saw. If they would just use that the outside game would come for others. It’s like they are afraid to throw it in there from the wing, when that is actually the best place to make the entry from. That is my biggest frustration as they pass up easy hoops for contested triples. Well that and the turnovers drive me nuts.
That was one of my gripes with the previous coach: they'd run pick and roll action and stubbornly refuse to pass to the roller even when it was wide open. I never understood it.
 


The vets really let the team down tonight. Battle with hero ball. Garcia with weak ball. Cooper...I don't even know what to say.
 




The offense would look better if they would get the ball into Payne when he sits down on the low blocks. They missed him in there at least four times that I saw. If they would just use that the outside game would come for others. It’s like they are afraid to throw it in there from the wing, when that is actually the best place to make the entry from. That is my biggest frustration as they pass up easy hoops for contested triples. Well that and the turnovers drive me nuts.
It’s amazing how poor they were at getting the ball to Payne on the block. Crowl was getting fed seemingly all game, but we were too busy having Battle dribbling around the perimeter and getting played like a fiddle by the WI defender.
 

Just got done watching the game, had recorded. Good to see Henley contribute, he seemed like he looked a bit more comfortable and wasn’t forcing things.

So so many absolutely terrible possessions. A lot of good ones, but the bad ones weren’t just kinda bad, they were truly awful. If we can take those and just even get okay shots up instead of brutally bad turnovers or possessions where we just hold the ball outside the perimeter and watch battle put up a contested deep 2, we’ll score a lot more points.

Excited about the effort. Rebounding, defense, all of it showed a lot better effort. Shouldn’t be surprised to see effort 12 games in, but it’s still encouraging to see.

Was fun watching competitive gopher basketball again!
 

Thompson is used to no defined role. He starts, he plays 20 minutes, he plays 3 minutes and he doesn't get off the bench....it's just how he is used.
We do it because of "matchups". His defiency is defense, Wisconsin plays 3 guys you don't have to guard. We went forever without scoring. You can't just put him in cold in the second half. He has no role. Game plan was obviously not to play him. He has more trouble in uptempo games with athletic, quick opponents. Not why we lost but he possesses value we don't ever use.
Agree. As such a player without a future, at least from a Gopher perspective, so it would make sense for him to portal and find a program that knows how to develop big men.
 

The offense would look better if they would get the ball into Payne when he sits down on the low blocks. They missed him in there at least four times that I saw. If they would just use that the outside game would come for others. It’s like they are afraid to throw it in there from the wing, when that is actually the best place to make the entry from. That is my biggest frustration as they pass up easy hoops for contested triples. Well that and the turnovers drive me nuts.
exactly the point i was making....Payne worked his tail off last night in the post.
 



The best shot that they have to win is go with Cooper, Carrington, Payne, Battle and Garcia. I would have no problem with putting Ola Joseph in for Garcia as an alternative.
I really like JOJ. Needs more time imo.
 

It’s amazing how poor they were at getting the ball to Payne on the block. Crowl was getting fed seemingly all game, but we were too busy having Battle dribbling around the perimeter and getting played like a fiddle by the WI defender.
Between Battel and cooper dribbling, ugh. No ball movement. Pathetic offense.
 

Wisconsin's style allows teams to stay close. Remember, Gard said they lost their best defender early in Wahl. Btw, he's also their leading scorer. In addition, Crowl sat 5-6 minutes with two fouls. I think we knew it would be close but with Wahl going down pretty big advantage to us. Did we then attack the post? "Tyler going down didn't effect our game plan at all"

Klesmet is a shut down defender. Who is ours?

Garcia and Battle had 27 points on 28 shots and 12 turnovers.

The freshmen are looking more comfortable. Ola Joseph is still probably our best freshman.
Payne had a nice game with 8 points and 3 rebounds.
Henley showed his potential on the defensive end.
Carrington pretty much anonymous after hitting a 3 early.
17 points out of those 4 guys has to improve.

We can argue this one or Saturday are our two best chances to win.
For us to win somebody needs to go out of their mind scoring.

Which players would you rather have...ours or Wisconsin's? For me, hands down ours.
I’d rather have our players, but talent always needs coaching. There are plenty of examples of teams who have tons of talent, but have a terrible coach, and the results are poor.

Better Question; what coach would you rather have, CBJ or Gard?
 

Stole my post. It's tempting to be encouraged, but... I can only speak for myself, but I feel mainly discouragement. This sloppy, unrefined ball won't beat many league opponents, if any, no matter how good or bad they are. Unfortunately, this seems to be this team's identity.

Like I said off the top, this Badger team is overrated. This isn't the magnitude of moral victory one might think it is.
Could not agree more.
-badgers were lacking weapons before their best player got hurt with 13min left in the first half
-if we play like that against a team with firepower, it gets pear-shaped fast (80+ points)
-the way we value the basketball is worse than a kindergarten rec team learning to play basketball
-Battle has proven he can’t play SF in the B10 or against P5 opponents (lacks speed / dribbling ability) - needs the advantages against PFs to really score
-Cooper must’ve been told to score more (which I like) but it caused him to have many more turnovers
 
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I really like JOJ. Needs more time imo.
he certainly needs time! but i did not have on this seasons bingo card that we would be subbing JOJ in for offense at the end of games.....like we seen last night with he and Henley swapping in and out
 

I’d rather have our players, but talent always needs coaching. There are plenty of examples of teams who have tons of talent, but have a terrible coach, and the results are poor.

Better Question; what coach would you rather have, CBJ or Gard?
Well, Gard has a pretty consistent track record of top 4 finishes. Ben is stacking the other end in his two opportunities.
 

Was the first game I tuned into this season, being quite honest. I'm a casual bball fan, obviously. Of course, I tuned in right at the start of the 8-0 Wisc run at the end of the first half.

But I kept it on, alternating between casually watching and then watching for real when we started coming back.

I genuinely enjoyed the comeback and the latter part of the game. Obviously disappointed how it ended, but hey Wisc is a very good program and we had a chance to tie it up and send it to OT. On the road! I'll take that, on what is supposed to be a down and out year.
 

Can anyone explain to me why our 6-7 230lb player is trying for step back shots against a 6-3 200lb player? How is battle not posting him up? Wisc will post up a pg if the matchup dictates it?
I've been begging for that for two seasons!!!! Maybe Battle is so bad at posting up that Ben doesn't go there.
 

WI without their most productive scorer and defensive rebounder was forced to play bit players in starring roles.
The game was there for MN to take but an epidemic of turnovers by MN was the story of the game.
 

Can anyone explain to me why our 6-7 230lb player is trying for step back shots against a 6-3 200lb player? How is battle not posting him up? Wisc will post up a pg if the matchup dictates it?
To know ones strenghts and play to them is the key to maximizing ones talent. Battle is a player who isn't a ball handler, as is evident from his turn overs, is best when he's out side waiting on others to get him the ball.
 

Battle is certainly having issues, and there are a lot there. In some order:

He is trying to take over, I don't know if the preseason hype has him thinking he needs to be our Durant/Lebron?

Cooper has not been quite the floor general I would have liked, stats wise he is averaging more AST per game than Willis did but to me it felt like Willis was the head of the snake and allowed Battle to be more free and get good shots. Cooper isnt really great at setting guys up in good spots in my opinion.

Ben needs to do a much better job with him. I've said several times I think Ben is a total trainwreck in terms of offensive scheme, he needs to find a way to get JB better shots. He also needs to sit him and say sure you might be our best player but you cant take 4 straight turn around 20 footers when there hasnt been a pass made in 14 seconds.

Finally i would say early on sure his injury didnt help, now that cannot be an excuse. If he is hurt still then he should not be playing, assuming he is not then its been a month plus, that is no longer something that can be used as a crutch.
 

Well, Gard has a pretty consistent track record of top 4 finishes.

Hard to imagine that continuing this season. That is not a great basketball team, no clue (other than historical bias?) why Wisky is ranked in the top 25, much less #14. Their resume up to this point is less than impressive.
 

MUCH BETTER EFFORT last night. They played their butts off and worked hard. That was the first time I saw that all season at least in the games I've watched.
That said, this Wisconsin team didn't looked very good to me at all. We missed a chance to beat them if only we don't turn the ball over every other possession there at the end.

Battle needs to let the game come to him and our point guard can't be so careless with the ball either.

Oh and Payne is the best player on this team or at least has the most potential. If he could shoot free throws, he would be dominant.
 

One of the other threads discusses what are we fans looking for from this team that would indicate progress. Mostly seems to be stats/number of wins-driven, which is fair. What I’m looking for is far more subtle and difficult to measure.

My feeling is that, before the Gophers can make any kind of jump, they first must understand effort and working as a team. Obviously, both take some time and it’s not always an even climb. Most coaches will tell you that freshmen can take up to a year to actually understand how hard you have to play at all times, just to be competative. It’s one of the harder concepts for a freshman to actually be able to incorporate. The old idea that “what you thought was 100% in high school, is about 80% of what we’re asking from you here”. Have had many 2nd-3rd year college players mention how much harder they had to work now, not to mention the stuff they could get away with in HS, that was worthless at college level. Meshing as a team and getting on the same page can also be a challenge when you have a lot of new players.

Although I only got to see the first half, I finally started to see those two things from the Gophers, at least on the defensive side. Much better sustained effort all the way through to the rebound. I felt the defense worked as a unit at a much higher level for a longer time than I’ve seen this season. In my mind, that’s the step the team needed to take before anything else. There are still issues and a very long ways to go. Now, Ben needs to impress on his club that the effort and defensive teamwork that I saw for most of the first half last night is the floor; the minimum of what needs to be done to compete. IMO, nothing can get much better until the team embraces and improves on that level of effort. Obviously, there are a lot of other issues on both sides of the ball that pretty much everybody has already addressed on this thread.

Like I said, it’s an uneven climb and we’re likely to see some big bumps, but at least now Ben can point at that as an example of the effort needed. “Now lets, at the very least, maintain that level of effort and start concentrating on execution.”. Getting back to the first line of this post, that’s the intangible I was and will continue to be looking for from this club.
 

I've been begging for that for two seasons!!!! Maybe Battle is so bad at posting up that Ben doesn't go there.
I use to scream at my TV constantly about not posting up Coffey. He would have a 6'1 guard on him. Amir was a good finisher and rim attacker. If they doubled? Let him pass out of it as he was an adept passer. Drove me insane.

Same point with Battle--and Payne. Lack of post touches seems to be a problem with this program.
 

Battle is certainly having issues, and there are a lot there. In some order:

He is trying to take over, I don't know if the preseason hype has him thinking he needs to be our Durant/Lebron?

Cooper has not been quite the floor general I would have liked, stats wise he is averaging more AST per game than Willis did but to me it felt like Willis was the head of the snake and allowed Battle to be more free and get good shots. Cooper isnt really great at setting guys up in good spots in my opinion.

Ben needs to do a much better job with him. I've said several times I think Ben is a total trainwreck in terms of offensive scheme, he needs to find a way to get JB better shots. He also needs to sit him and say sure you might be our best player but you cant take 4 straight turn around 20 footers when there hasnt been a pass made in 14 seconds.

Finally i would say early on sure his injury didnt help, now that cannot be an excuse. If he is hurt still then he should not be playing, assuming he is not then its been a month plus, that is no longer something that can be used as a crutch.
This.
This.
This.

I was told right here on gh Battle, Henley, Cooper, etc would be able to initiate an offense. The ONLY one that sniffs it is Samuels.
 

MUCH BETTER EFFORT last night. They played their butts off and worked hard. That was the first time I saw that all season at least in the games I've watched.
That said, this Wisconsin team didn't looked very good to me at all. We missed a chance to beat them if only we don't turn the ball over every other possession there at the end.

Battle needs to let the game come to him and our point guard can't be so careless with the ball either.

Oh and Payne is the best player on this team or at least has the most potential. If he could shoot free throws, he would be dominant.
I liked the look of the effort as well. What is impossible for me to sort out is whether it just looked like more effort because we were able to keep up with Wisconsin's foot speed- or whether it was actually just the best effort we have put out. Wisconsin- other than Hepburn and also Wahl for his position, is a pretty slow footed squad.
 

I use to scream at my TV constantly about not posting up Coffey. He would have a 6'1 guard on him. Amir was a good finisher and rim attacker. If they doubled? Let him pass out of it as he was an adept passer. Drove me insane.

Same point with Battle--and Payne. Lack of post touches seems to be a problem with this program.
100% if by that you mean- low post touches. We do have Payne touch the ball in the high post, but there isn't much that gets done with it.

Thinking back to Clem and also Dutcher before him- the center, no matter how good or bad they were ran down the court and grabbed a low post position and the ball went in from the wing. That has been super rare in the last year. Pitino did it some depending on who he had: Mo Walker and Lynch both got fed the ball a reasonable amount as did Murph. Pitino was better than Ben so far on this aspect, but in fairness to Ben - he had nothin' to feed last year and unfortunately I think that became habit forming.
 

I liked the look of the effort as well. What is impossible for me to sort out is whether it just looked like more effort because we were able to keep up with Wisconsin's foot speed- or whether it was actually just the best effort we have put out. Wisconsin- other than Hepburn and also Wahl for his position, is a pretty slow footed squad.
Badgers are slow, but they shoot much better than they did last year, making them much more competitive. Give them credit. They know what they do and they do it. Most of the time it works. Sometimes it doesn't and they are terrible at adjusting. An off shooting night and playing against quick aggressive defenses, and they will be hurting. But we all say those kind of things every year only to have them in the title mix in late February as they prep to get knocked off early in the NCAAs.
 

100% if by that you mean- low post touches. We do have Payne touch the ball in the high post, but there isn't much that gets done with it.

Thinking back to Clem and also Dutcher before him- the center, no matter how good or bad they were ran down the court and grabbed a low post position and the ball went in from the wing. That has been super rare in the last year. Pitino did it some depending on who he had: Mo Walker and Lynch both got fed the ball a reasonable amount as did Murph. Pitino was better than Ben so far on this aspect, but in fairness to Ben - he had nothin' to feed last year and unfortunately I think that became habit forming.
Good point.
 

Badgers are slow, but they shoot much better than they did last year, making them much more competitive. Give them credit. They know what they do and they do it. Most of the time it works. Sometimes it doesn't and they are terrible at adjusting. An off shooting night and playing against quick aggressive defenses, and they will be hurting. But we all say those kind of things every year only to have them in the title mix in late February as they prep to get knocked off early in the NCAAs.
No doubt - they maximize themselves as well as any team in the country. I'd love to be 3-0 in the Big Ten and in the hunt seemingly every year.
 




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