***OFFICIAL MICHIGAN STATE AT MINNESOTA IZZO LONG POST-GAME HANDSHAKE WITH JOHNSON, POST-GAME PRAISE IN-GAME THREAD!!!***

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MonikerSchmoniker45 said:
I mean come on.... that little bit of gossip is more interesting than anything happening on the court. What I really wanna know is who's dad could beat up who?
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If it was Asuma's dad, he played for NDSU. Not sure where Patterson's dad played.
If the story is true, then I feel sorry for LuCye. That's got to be hard. I recall a high school kid, who wasn't very good, but his mom spent the whole game ragging on the refs, the other team and coaches because she thought her son was the next coming of Michael Jordan. You could see the kid cringing out on the court. I just wanted to tell the mom to shut up and let her kid breathe.

Someone close to Lucy's dad needs to tell him to be silent (if the OP is speaking truth).
 

EasyThere Pilgrim said:
Johnson had a good team. But 3 returning starters became valuable commodities...so they left.

What's he supposed to do...give them 2 dollars and 3 Rice Krispies box-tops?
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We don't have NIL dollars for 2 reasons:

1. The administration fell woefully behind on getting in on the game. That's not on Ben.
2. There is no interest or belief in the basketball program that would inspire NIL $$ to come in.
That is on Ben.

He is part of the problem- but certainly not all of it. When has he given the fans a sense of optimism that we were going to be contenders or compete for NCAA berths? I'd say never.

Embrace the suck.
 

bga1 said:
We don't have NIL dollars for 2 reasons:

1. The administration fell woefully behind on getting in on the game. That's not on Ben.
2. There is no interest or belief in the basketball program that would inspire NIL $$ to come in.
That is on Ben.

He is part of the problem- but certainly not all of it. When has he given the fans a sense of optimism that we were going to be contenders or compete for NCAA berths? I'd say never.

Embrace the suck.
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And that "good" team barely snuck into the NIT, because of all the opt outs.
 


formerlybis said:
View attachment 34943
This chart would say Patterson should not be shooting the ball (look at EFG - effective FG%). He has nice assist and turnover percentages - Asuma does not.
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That is only part of the story, facilitating the offense, getting the team going is probably more important, I hate the way Patterson runs the offense, Asuma is a natural.
 


jovs said:
That is only part of the story, facilitating the offense, getting the team going is probably more important, I hate the way Patterson runs the offense, Asuma is a natural.
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I agree it's only part of the story. I suspect the terrible shooting by Patterson - at relatively high usage, too - is the primary reason why the offense looks (and is) worse when he's running it.

I'll also repeat, though, that Asuma's metrics are not very good, regardless of the eye test. He is getting experience though, and can improve.
 

Jack jones said:
If Ben really cared about the U, he would resign now in order to allow the Adm./Coyle to. start the hiring process. Instead of waiting for the end of the season.
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Yeah, sure he's going to resign in the middle of the season and forfeit his buyout. Do you have any other nuggets of wisdom? I don't think Coyle or whoever else is going to make the decision is precluded from contacting a prospective coach's agent during the season to gauge interest.
 

bga1 said:
We don't have NIL dollars for 2 reasons:

1. The administration fell woefully behind on getting in on the game. That's not on Ben.
2. There is no interest or belief in the basketball program that would inspire NIL $$ to come in.
That is on Ben.

He is part of the problem- but certainly not all of it. When has he given the fans a sense of optimism that we were going to be contenders or compete for NCAA berths? I'd say never.

Embrace the suck.
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As I've said before, Ben was a reasonable risk at the time because he was the anti-Pitino. The biggest criticism leveled at Richard was that he couldn't/wouldn't recruit locally. He supposedly was extremely well regarded in the local HS and AAU communities. That was Ben's strength. He recruited Coffey and Oturo. That was 400 years ago. Everything and everyone has changed--except Coyle. He's the same earnest, rule following, middle management guy. He has never provided the resources necessary for Ben to prove whether or not he can actually coach. Every single year Ben has been here it has been a mad scramble to fill a roster. Under the new rules I'm not sure that Bill Self would be successful here with no money, a shitty building, a cold climate an aging fan base and a very crowded market. All of that means 7-10 marginal new players a year.

As always, follow the money. Ben is on his way out the door, as he should be. In terms of fault allocation, Coyle should get a lot of it. They need a new AD who can go find the necessary resources to buy Ben out, find the right coach and the right players. That's how to start over.
 
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bga1 said:
We don't have NIL dollars for 2 reasons:

1. The administration fell woefully behind on getting in on the game. That's not on Ben.
2. There is no interest or belief in the basketball program that would inspire NIL $$ to come in.
That is on Ben.

He is part of the problem- but certainly not all of it. When has he given the fans a sense of optimism that we were going to be contenders or compete for NCAA berths? I'd say never.

Embrace the suck.
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We will NEVER have good NIL money.

You people actually believe that our administration "fell behind" on NIL...as if it was simply an accident??

It takes a strong concerted effort to keep Minnesota at only 2 NCAA wins in 27 years.
 



Gophers7633 said:
And that "good" team barely snuck into the NIT, because of all the opt outs.
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When a team with no seniors goes 9-11 in Big Ten play...it usually translates to a good season the next year.

No other coach here will ever have a team as good as we'd have been if Payne, Hawkins, and Christie stayed. That's a fact.
 

formerlybis said:
I agree it's only part of the story. I suspect the terrible shooting by Patterson - at relatively high usage, too - is the primary reason why the offense looks (and is) worse when he's running it.

I'll also repeat, though, that Asuma's metrics are not very good, regardless of the eye test. He is getting experience though, and can improve.
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You are correct that Asuma's metrics are not great yet. The lacking component is making more proactive plays. He's not making a lot of mistakes, but he isn't creating much yet either because he is not taking chances/probing the defense. The way he plays would be ideal, though in an offense with more screening and movement. This offense seems to depend on individual players breaking other players down off the dribble. Asuma doesn't dribble around, he gets the ball and moves it.
 

EasyThere Pilgrim said:
When a team with no seniors goes 9-11 in Big Ten play...it usually translates to a good season the next year.

No other coach here will ever have a team as good as we'd have been if Payne, Hawkins, and Christie stayed. That's a fact.
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Lmao. So "good" we were barely a top 90 team. Not even any better than Pitino's last team that got him canned. Continue to post to I can laugh.
 

Gophers7633 said:
Lmao. So "good" we were barely a top 90 team. Not even any better than Pitino's last team that got him canned. Continue to post to I can laugh.
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I don't go by computers.

9-11 in Big Ten play...nice NIT win at Butler...translates to a good season the following year if everyone returns.

If you don't think we'd be good with Payne, Hawkins, & Christie on this team...you ought to have your head examined.
 



jamiche said:
As I've said before, Ben was a reasonable risk at the time because he was the anti-Pitino. The biggest criticism leveled at Richard was that he couldn't/wouldn't recruit locally. He supposedly was extremely well regarded in the local HS and AAU communities. That was Ben's strength. He recruited Coffey and Oturo. That was 400 years ago. Everything and everyone has changed--except Coyle. He's the same earnest, rule following, middle management guy. He has never provided the resources necessary for Ben to prove whether or not he can actually coach. Every single year Ben has been here it has been a mad scramble to fill a roster. Under the new rules I'm not sure that Bill Self would be successful here with no money, a shitty building, a cold climate an aging fan base and a very crowded market. All of that means 7-10 marginal new players a year.

As always, follow the money. Ben is on his way out the door, as he should be. In terms of fault allocation, Coyle should get a lot of it. They need a new AD who can go find the necessary resources to buy Ben out, find the right coach and the right players. That's how to start over.
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Blameless Ben.
 

EasyThere Pilgrim said:
I don't go by computers.

9-11 in Big Ten play...nice NIT win at Butler...translates to a good season the following year if everyone returns.

If you don't think we'd be good with Payne, Hawkins, & Christie on this team...you ought to have your head examined.
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Then examine it. We see what Hawkins and Payne are doing on actual good teams. Hawkins has stunk and Payne is coming off the bench. Don't get me wrong Id rather have them than not, but it's not like we lost a couple studs. And Christie left for the NBA.
 

Jack jones said:
If Ben really cared about the U, he would resign now in order to allow the Adm./Coyle to. start the hiring process. Instead of waiting for the end of the season.
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Start what hiring process? Are we limiting our potential hires to currently unemployed coaches or something?
 

Gophers7633 said:
Lmao. So "good" we were barely a top 90 team. Not even any better than Pitino's last team that got him canned. Continue to post to I can laugh.
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The romanticizing of last year's team by a few here is ridiculous. They lost 5 of their last 6 games. They were nowhere close to making the NCAA's and finished 10th out of 14.
 

howeda7 said:
The romanticizing of last year's team by a few here is ridiculous. They lost 5 of their last 6 games. They were nowhere close to making the NCAA's and finished 10th out of 14.
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Yeah, and I guess they don't realize, that if this roster was so good and "valuable" why were we as bad as we were?
 

bga1 said:
We don't have NIL dollars for 2 reasons:

1. The administration fell woefully behind on getting in on the game. That's not on Ben.
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Yet football seems to be doing quite well with NIL.

bga1 said:
2. There is no interest or belief in the basketball program that would inspire NIL $$ to come in.
That is on Ben.
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This is true
 

jamiche said:
As I've said before, Ben was a reasonable risk at the time because he was the anti-Pitino. The biggest criticism leveled at Richard was that he couldn't/wouldn't recruit locally. He supposedly was extremely well regarded in the local HS and AAU communities. That was Ben's strength. He recruited Coffey and Oturo. That was 400 years ago. Everything and everyone has changed--except Coyle. He's the same earnest, rule following, middle management guy. He has never provided the resources necessary for Ben to prove whether or not he can actually coach. Every single year Ben has been here it has been a mad scramble to fill a roster. Under the new rules I'm not sure that Bill Self would be successful here with no money, a shitty building, a cold climate an aging fan base and a very crowded market. All of that means 7-10 marginal new players a year.

As always, follow the money. Ben is on his way out the door, as he should be. In terms of fault allocation, Coyle should get a lot of it. They need a new AD who can go find the necessary resources to buy Ben out, find the right coach and the right players. That's how to start over.
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Woe is Ben, give me a break.

Football has resources because they have a real coach. Basketball doesn't have resources because Coyle was forced to choose a coach from a limited talent pool, and rolled the dice on Ben because of his alleged local recruiting prowess, as you mentioned, but that turned out to be more BS from Ben.

When this nightmare is over after this season and Coyle is allowed to do a full coaching search, they will land a better coach and the program/resources will quickly improve.
 

howeda7 said:
The romanticizing of last year's team by a few here is ridiculous. They lost 5 of their last 6 games. They were nowhere close to making the NCAA's and finished 10th out of 14.
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+1

Last year is what a down year for a good but not great coach would look like here. It certainly is not good if it is the best year (by a long shot) in a 3+ year tenure.
 


Spaulding!No! said:
Blameless Ben.
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He's not blameless and I've said it's time for him to go. However, a B1G program today without money is Bethune Cookman, no matter who is the coach. Every player in the country is a free agent every year and it takes money to get them and keep them.

Unless Coyle raises significant money, he's going to hire another Ben and hope for a miracle.
 

Gophers7633 said:
Then examine it. We see what Hawkins and Payne are doing on actual good teams. Hawkins has stunk and Payne is coming off the bench. Don't get me wrong Id rather have them than not, but it's not like we lost a couple studs. And Christie left for the NBA.
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3 studs. I saw what they're capable of last year.

They might be fat & lazy now because they got $500,000 plus cars, fur coats, etc. to play for teams on the other end of the country that they don't even like.
 

EasyThere Pilgrim said:
3 studs. I saw what they're capable of last year.

They might be fat & lazy now because they got $500,000 plus cars, fur coats, etc. to play for teams on the other end of the country that they don't even like.
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So we had 3 studs, plus I'm assuming you think Garcia is good, and we barely made the NIT because a dozen teams opted out? If the roster was so good, why were the results so terrible? Hmm. What could that be.
 

howeda7 said:
The romanticizing of last year's team by a few here is ridiculous. They lost 5 of their last 6 games. They were nowhere close to making the NCAA's and finished 10th out of 14.
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Stop lying. And stop with the computer nonsense when discussing if we were a decent team or not.

They were 9-11...and they won at Butler in the NIT. Yes they lost 5 out of their last 6 regular season games...but they were a decent team WITH NO SENIORS.
 


Gophers7633 said:
So we had 3 studs, plus I'm assuming you think Garcia is good, and we barely made the NIT because a dozen teams opted out? If the roster was so good, why were the results so terrible? Hmm. What could that be.
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Under past normal circumstances, we'd have been an NCAA bubble team. We'd have been in with about a week to go in the regular season.

But yeah, computers computers. I don't talk about computers when assessing how good a team actually is.

Normal improvement for a team like that with no seniors...would have been a very good team. Could paying them a boatload of money with new BMWs, jewelry, etc. affect then negativity...possibly. But normally, that would be a very good team. But you're so full of hatred of Ben...you focus all the blame on 1 person...that you're totally delusional.
 

EasyThere Pilgrim said:
Under past normal circumstances, we'd have been an NCAA bubble team. We'd have been in with about a week to go in the regular season.

But yeah, computers computers. I don't talk about computers when assessing how good a team actually is.

Normal improvement for a team like that with no seniors...would have been a very good team. Could paying them a boatload of money with new BMWs, jewelry, etc. affect then negativity...possibly. But normally, that would be a very good team. But you're so full of hatred of Ben...you focus all the blame on 1 person...that you're totally delusional.
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Had Ben had any faith and scheduled a couple good Non Con games, that we would have won, we might have been in the mix. I get you don't understand how the selection process works, but you need to beat quality teams to make it. We beat a total of 3 of them, all at home.

Don't hate Ben, would have loved for him to be the guy here. But he's clearly not. I don't put all the blame fully on him, some of that also goes to the administration. But Ben has proven incapable of being a head coach at this level.

Also, it's the portal era, returning everyone (which we wouldn't have done anyway because Christie left for the NBA), doesn't guarantee anything. Teams like Rutgers (through recruiting) and Michigan and Maryland (through the portal) are better than they were last year.
 


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