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EasyThere Pilgrim said:
3 studs. I saw what they're capable of last year.

They might be fat & lazy now because they got $500,000 plus cars, fur coats, etc. to play for teams on the other end of the country that they don't even like.
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You are actually making the case for getting rid of him with your first statement.

At some point, we probably need to acknowledge the reality of the circumstances. One of two things is probably true....

a) we really haven't had much B1G caliber talent during the Ben Johnson era. That isn't all NIL related. We also have never had much depth and/or a willingness to develop that depth despite declarations each pre-season to the contrary. Or...

b) Johnson is just not capable of outkicking his coverage. Except for a stretch early in the season during year one and a small stretch during the middle of the year last year, he rarely exceeds expectations. Nobody has said this isn't a tough job. But I have a hard time believing a better coach couldn't get better results.

Watching traditional conference doormats like Penn State, Nebraska, Rutgers, and Northwestern have definitively better results is frustrating. We can do better.
 


The ignore button is a wonderful thing. Maybe you-know-who would stop incessantly making basically the same post if no one responded.

Coaching matters.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
Woe is Ben, give me a break.

Football has resources because they have a real coach. Basketball doesn't have resources because Coyle was forced to choose a coach from a limited talent pool, and rolled the dice on Ben because of his alleged local recruiting prowess, as you mentioned, but that turned out to be more BS from Ben.

When this nightmare is over after this season and Coyle is allowed to do a full coaching search, they will land a better coach and the program/resources will quickly improve.
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The real coach has a .500 B1G record, which is good compared to his predecessors. He wins press conferences, he wins post games, he wins locker room dives and he kills at contract negotiations. He's mediocre in games that count, mediocre in attendance and has never sniffed a conference championship game. He gets credit for elevating the program from subpar to average. He's entertaining and Ben is dull and boring. Even Fleck isn't exactly over resourced compared to his competition. The department is just way behind.

In terms of BS from Ben, he's actually done surprisingly well at recruiting in a changed environment. The problem is that he doesn't have the money to keep the good players.

We agree that Ben has to go and the program has to start over. Coyle should go too.
 

jamiche said:
The real coach has a .500 B1G record, which is good compared to his predecessors. He wins press conferences, he wins post games, he wins locker room dives and he kills at contract negotiations. He's mediocre in games that count, mediocre in attendance and has never sniffed a conference championship game. He gets credit for elevating the program from subpar to average. He's entertaining and Ben is dull and boring. Even Fleck isn't exactly over resourced compared to his competition. The department is just way behind.

In terms of BS from Ben, he's actually done surprisingly well at recruiting in a changed environment. The problem is that he doesn't have the money to keep the good players.

We agree that Ben has to go and the program has to start over. Coyle should go too.
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What a load of horsemanure. Top to bottom.

But this takes the cake:

Ben has "done surprisingly well" at recruiting?

LOL.

There are, at most, 3 B1G players on this team.
 


jamiche said:
In terms of BS from Ben, he's actually done surprisingly well at recruiting in a changed environment. The problem is that he doesn't have the money to keep the good players.
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What teams have you been watching the last 4 years? The Gophers have always been at the bottom of the B1G in talent.

This years team is Dawson Garcia plus a bunch of other guys that would struggle in a Lifetime league.
 


jamiche said:
The real coach has a .500 B1G record, which is good compared to his predecessors.
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Do you realize how far away our hoops program is from going .500 in B1G play over an 8 year stretch?

Most of the fan base would KILL for that modicum of success right now.

I refuse to believe we can be consistently competitive in football here but that it's impossible to do the same in basketball.

We aren't asking for the moon here...
 

USAF said:
What a load of horsemanure. Top to bottom.

But this takes the cake:

Ben has "done surprisingly well" at recruiting?

LOL.

There are, at most, 3 B1G players on this team.
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Ben's quality recruits:

Christie (NBA)
Battle (NBA)
Hawkins
Garcia
Payne
Mike Mitchell
Asuma
Peyton Willis
JOJ
Sutherlin
Fox

Is this an all star cast? Outside of the two NBA players, no. Is it a respectable showing considering the lack of money to sign and retain players? Yes.

If Payne and Hawkins had stayed--and JOJ had stayed and played defense--this is a borderline tournament team this year.

Even with Fleck's charisma, his recruiting class was ranked 13th in the B1G. It's usually middle of the pack. The athletic department is way under resourced. The coaches have 1.5 hands tied behind their backs and Fleck is winning the internal battles to claim what little resources there are.
 



GopherWeatherGuy said:
It's the truth and you're the delusional one which you back up with every post.

No donor, or player with options, wants to donate or play for a coach with the personality of a potato.
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A French fry, mashed, twice baked. Plenty of personality.
 



Spaulding!No! said:
Jamison leaving for another BT team was the harbinger. I like Ben and I hope the team turns it around this
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He left for the payday. Same for Payne, Hawkins and Christie (NBA). Hensley, too. (I think that's his name.) He had talent. We had to suffer through his freshman mistakes so somebody else could pay him.
 




Zeppelin Gopher said:
Do you realize how far away our hoops program is from going .500 in B1G play over an 8 year stretch?

Most of the fan base would KILL for that modicum of success right now.

I refuse to believe we can be consistently competitive in football here but that it's impossible to do the same in basketball.

We aren't asking for the moon here...
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Agreed. For those people who think the money will flow for the next coach, no established coach will come because the money hasn't been raised to pay the players. That means Coyle or his successor will have to take another big chance. Maybe it will work.
 

jamiche said:
He left for the payday. Same for Payne, Hawkins and Christie (NBA). Hensley, too. (I think that's his name.) He had talent. We had to suffer through his freshman mistakes so somebody else could pay him.
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Or maybe Battle left because our coaching staff had no clue how to utilize his strengths. You think he'd be in the NBA right now had he stayed? Henley is terrible. A bust. We should be happy he's no longer here.

Johnson failed miserably with the 2022 class. Payne was a hit, but JOJ, Carrington, Henley and Betts aren't B1G level players. Carrington, Henley and Betts not all that close.
 


jamiche said:
Agreed. For those people who think the money will flow for the next coach, no established coach will come because the money hasn't been raised to pay the players. That means Coyle or his successor will have to take another big chance. Maybe it will work.
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We have enough money to compete with at least half of the B1G, and are in the top 20% of the country. Quit repeating this nonsense.
 

The people on here blaming Coyle and a lack of NIL for our failures are all rewriting history. Coyle didn't take a chance on an unknown, he was forced to hire someone for reasons outside of basketball. This hire was nothing like any of Coyle's other hires. There is no way someone whose job depended on having a decent basketball team would put that decision into Ben Johnson's hands. It's illogical.

It doesn't take some revolutionary leap of faith to build the program to mediocrity, he takes hiring a competent coach. A ton of similarly situated programs and at that point enough NIL money to pay our mediocre players will flow into the program.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
We have enough money to compete with at least half of the B1G, and are in the top 20% of the country. Quit repeating this nonsense.
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He is just trying to deflect some of blame off of Ben. It's the same as suggesting we need to take another risk. Nope. That's clearly not the case. We just need to hire a competent person.
 


EasyThere Pilgrim said:
I don't go by computers.

9-11 in Big Ten play...nice NIT win at Butler...translates to a good season the following year if everyone returns.

If you don't think we'd be good with Payne, Hawkins, & Christie on this team...you ought to have your head examined.
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What’s Payne averaging this year?
 

mnsportsgeek said:
It’s so funny how Izzo always goes out of his way to compliment Ben Johnson as if we all haven’t seen the last several years of his basketball teams.
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He pats Ben's head like the Monopoly Man patting that little kid's head on the "Pay School Tax" card.
 

jamiche said:
Agreed. For those people who think the money will flow for the next coach, no established coach will come because the money hasn't been raised to pay the players. That means Coyle or his successor will have to take another big chance. Maybe it will work.
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We're paying Dawson Garcia $350-$450k. The total budget is more than double that. We are behind many of the other teams in the B1G but we're not some tiny school for the poor either.
 

howeda7 said:
We're paying Dawson Garcia $350-$450k. The total budget is more than double that. We are behind many of the other teams in the B1G but we're not some tiny school for the poor either.
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The NIL issue is stacked upon our other problems:

Uncommitted administration
Unproven coach
Long history of not winning
Cold weather
City campus
Old arena - which I don't view as a disadvantage unless we are bad- when empty- the Barn looks bad.

Regardless of who we hire we will need a big injection of NIL to help the new coach erase old problems.
 

formerlybis said:
View attachment 34943
This chart would say Patterson should not be shooting the ball (look at EFG - effective FG%). He has nice assist and turnover percentages - Asuma does not.
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This really kind of confirms what the eye test shows. Patterson is a low percentage, high volume shooter. He’s an absolute black hole at times, but he is one of the only players on the team actually looking to score. It’s hard to fault him for that when you have a group of guys sitting at the perimeter late in the shot clock.

I think Asuma has looked like he has potential as a freshman, but he just doesn’t do much. Definitely not an impact player at this stage. He’s a pass first point guard, but he has a very low assist rate. He seems to lack the confidence to break down the other team and his usage stats confirm he plays a lot, but really doesn’t contribute all that much.
 

Gold Vision said:
This really kind of confirms what the eye test shows. Patterson is a low percentage, high volume shooter. He’s an absolute black hole at times, but he is one of the only players on the team actually looking to score. It’s hard to fault him for that when you have a group of guys sitting at the perimeter late in the shot clock.

I think Asuma has looked like he has potential as a freshman, but he just doesn’t do much. Definitely not an impact player at this stage. He’s a pass first point guard, but he has a very low assist rate. He seems to lack the confidence to break down the other team and his usage stats confirm he plays a lot, but really doesn’t contribute all that much.
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An assist requires the receiver to score. So the low assist number isn’t alarming.
He’s gradually getting better and by the end of the season is going to be a good scorer and a great pg.
 

GFBfan said:
An assist requires the receiver to score. So the low assist number isn’t alarming.
He’s gradually getting better and by the end of the season is going to be a good scorer and a great pg.
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If you’re watching closely, he’s not breaking down the defense or putting players in a position to score. He’s getting a little better, but the amount of times he will pass on the perimeter without even putting the ball on the floor is extremely frustrating to watch as a primary ball handler. He’s a freshman, so there is plenty of time for improvement. He’s just not flashing like some of our great guards from the past have done as freshman.

It may very well also be a system thing, but I don’t think he has the quickness or confidence to get around quicker B1G guards. He’s a strong kid that needs to learn how to be crafty, change speeds, and use screens to create for himself and others.
 

Gold Vision said:
If you’re watching closely, he’s not breaking down the defense or putting players in a position to score. He’s getting a little better, but the amount of times he will pass on the perimeter without even putting the ball on the floor is extremely frustrating to watch as a primary ball handler. He’s a freshman, so there is plenty of time for improvement. He’s just not flashing like some of our great guards from the past have done as freshman.

It may very well also be a system thing, but I don’t think he has the quickness or confidence to get around quicker B1G guards. He’s a strong kid that needs to learn how to be crafty, change speeds, and use screens to create for himself and others.
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I think that as a frosh, under Ben, he knows that if he starts dribbling into crowds and turning the ball over, he's going to be on the bench fast. Whereas if he is moving the ball and playing it a little safe, with this coach, he is going to be on the floor more.

Right now I think he is just matching the mentality of his coach who tends to operate more freely with older guys. I hope Ben tells him to cut it loose more.
 

As bad as we played against Michigan State, look what they are doing against Nebraska. 89-52 Michigan State. Wow!
 

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