***OFFICIAL GOPHERS VS MICHIGAN STATE IN-GAME THREAD!!!***

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Moonlight said:
You're on a roll, howeda. And I'm with you. What does it even mean at this point in time - 'I'm not accepting mediocrity'? And now what?
It just doesn't make sense to sound the same whiny message today, unless of course you don't actually watch the games.

Positives:
- Dorsey had a bit of a break out game, and I think we can look for more contributions from him.
- Murphy is figuring out some things and didn't get in foul trouble.
- Konate might be settling down, and it actually seemed advantageous to have him out there at times.
- Defense was much better - they seemed like a team today. MSU had to work for their points.

Fun to see Andre Hollins at the game, hanging out with Rachel. It was good that we looked decent with all the recruits at the game as well.
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+1

All in all, a good effort. Better than I expected.
 

DrinoneMays9 said:
The sad thing is that I bet most posters on this board are in the top half of there job or profession. We have a bunch of great "Holers" on this board and I love coming here from time to time to see the banter. Why is it that a bunch of smart, well educated people continue to accept mediocrity with the B-Ball and Football programs!? I will keep cheering my arse off but c'mon....We should be better.
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I know this probably won't be answered because it never is by people who make the "accept mediocrity" statements. But I'll try anyways.

What do you suggest we should do? Stomp our feet in anger? Egg Pitino's house? Post angrily on a message board? Stop supporting the team?

How you and I react to the outcome of this game or any other game has zero impact on what happens. I choose to remain as positive as I can even in bad situations. I think it is better than being a miserable fan all the time.
 



GophersInIowa said:
I know this probably won't be answered because it never is by people who make the "accept mediocrity" statements. But I'll try anyways. What do you suggest we should people do? Stomp our feet in anger? Egg Pitino's house? Post angrily on a message board? Stop supporting the team? How you and I react to the outcome of this game or any other game has zero impact on what happens. I choose to remain as positive as I can even in bad situations. I think it is better than being a miserable fan all the time.
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Well stated
 



If you 'sunshine and unicorn' folks can come on here to pat the team on the back for giving it the old college try over and over again and try to convince us that all Coach needs is more time, then those of us who call it like it is can come on here and complain.

Just give us more time and I'm sure we'll see the team as you do.
 

Gopher2017 said:
If you 'sunshine and unicorn' folks can come on here to pat the team on the back for giving it the old college try over and over again and try to convince us that all Coach needs is more time, then those of us who call it like it is can come on here and complain. Just give us more time and I'm sure we'll see the team as you do.
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Answer Gopher in Iowa's question. I'm interested in what a straight shooter like you has to say. You seem to have it all figured out.
 

Gopher2017 said:
If you 'sunshine and unicorn' folks can come on here to pat the team on the back for giving it the old college try over and over again and try to convince us that all Coach needs is more time, then those of us who call it like it is can come on here and complain. Just give us more time and I'm sure we'll see the team as you do.
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I don't think that there is anybody on this board who thinks the situation looks good or who would give Pitino high marks for his work. However, to fire him today when there finally appears to be an influx of talent on the way, would be the best way to ensure that the new talent doesn't arrive. The decision point on his tenure should come in March, 2017.
 



So tempted to join in the "if you can't see... then you are a moron" crowd, but-it's a new year. So I'll just speak for myself and accept that there are fans that see things through a very negative lens and let them vent (just stop with the notion that you can rally everyone else to join you in a petition to fire the coach). I don't enjoy getting embarrassed by South Dakota. But I think it's crazy to get all upset with losing a close game to MSU when we've done that countless times with our very best teams over the years. I saw effort, emerging talent, and yes, even good coaching from the home team yesterday. They played strong defense (with a few lapses), they ran effective offense that took advantage of mismatches and got good shots (many of which were missed), and competed well. I wish they had pulled the upset, but I'm not surprised that they didn't. I expect we'll still upset a couple better teams and lose a few we are disappointed in. I enjoyed the game, though, because there are a number of players, like Murphy, that are just starting to realize that they can't just sit back and expect this group of Seniors to lead them to wins. The youngsters are going to have to start taking over.
 

DrinoneMays9 said:
The sad thing is that I bet most posters on this board are in the top half of there job or profession. We have a bunch of great "Holers" on this board and I love coming here from time to time to see the banter. Why is it that a bunch of smart, well educated people continue to accept mediocrity with the B-Ball and Football programs!? I will keep cheering my arse off but c'mon....We should be better.
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So we are all from lake Wobegon? When you have programs that are trying to improve and look to be making progress then the fans are not "accepting mediocre". It is just that several GHers understand that it doesn't happen instantaneously and it require a bit of maturity to support your team during the process.


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Gopher2017 said:
If you 'sunshine and unicorn' folks can come on here to pat the team on the back for giving it the old college try over and over again and try to convince us that all Coach needs is more time, then those of us who call it like it is can come on here and complain.

Just give us more time and I'm sure we'll see the team as you do.
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Finish your caulking?
 

Gopher2017 said:
If you 'sunshine and unicorn' folks can come on here to pat the team on the back for giving it the old college try over and over again and try to convince us that all Coach needs is more time, then those of us who call it like it is can come on here and complain.

Just give us more time and I'm sure we'll see the team as you do.
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Yeah you especially should be able to "call it like it is" and complain if you didn't actually watch the game and instead just looked at the final score because you were doing something else like say working on some home improvement project instead.
 



I love it when someone giving his/her opinion leans on "I'm calling like it is" like it ends the conversation. Just because you refuse to understand a different perspective doesn't mean you're right. It doesn't mean you're wrong either, but perhaps you could accept that those who disagree with you aren't automatically idiotic.
 

The saddest part of this game is that it was played at The Barn. If this was a road game, we would have lost by 30+ points. No moral victory and no remarkable progression.

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Gopher2017 said:
If you 'sunshine and unicorn' folks can come on here to pat the team on the back for giving it the old college try over and over again and try to convince us that all Coach needs is more time, then those of us who call it like it is can come on here and complain.

Just give us more time and I'm sure we'll see the team as you do.
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This is why people are jumping on you. Most have no problem if you feel Pitino isn't good and should be fired. But it's when people act like their opinion is fact and everyone who disagrees is part of the problem and that they "accept mediocrity".
 

I have a problem with people thinking Pitino should be fired, and it has nothing to do with Pitino.

Its idiotic. See Jammer's post. Baring NCAA violations, the damage to would do to our program and national reputation to fire him prior to March 2017 is epic. If people don't understand that, then I'd suggest making a list of top home improvement projects and start knocking them off.
 

Moonlight said:
I have a problem with people thinking Pitino should be fired, and it has nothing to do with Pitino.

Its idiotic. See Jammer's post. Baring NCAA violations, the damage to would do to our program and national reputation to fire him prior to March 2017 is epic. If people don't understand that, then I'd suggest making a list of top home improvement projects and start knocking them off.
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I have no problem with people calling for Lil Ricky to be fired. The way I see it is that they refuse to have their standards lowered to the point where we can be happy winning the division within the conference when what we should be doing is focus on winning the conference. Those who are satisfied with a division title don't realize that even though it is a step we have to do that accepting it is being okay with being one step further away from making the NCAA tournament and one step closer to always being in the NIT.

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jamiche said:
I don't think that there is anybody on this board who thinks the situation looks good or who would give Pitino high marks for his work. However, to fire him today when there finally appears to be an influx of talent on the way, would be the best way to ensure that the new talent doesn't arrive. The decision point on his tenure should come in March, 2017.
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I'd like to see him actually recruit some talented big men not just spring recruits or transfers. Otherwise the recruiting is good with a little room for improvement yet.
 

Moonlight said:
I have a problem with people thinking Pitino should be fired, and it has nothing to do with Pitino.

Its idiotic. See Jammer's post. Baring NCAA violations, the damage to would do to our program and national reputation to fire him prior to March 2017 is epic. If people don't understand that, then I'd suggest making a list of top home improvement projects and start knocking them off.
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I can agree that Pitino probably deserves at least one more year. What I don't agree with is that firing him prior to that time would do significant damage to the program and its national reputation. I witnessed the three-year Todd Lickliter debacle at Iowa. While a significant proportion of fans were calling for his dismissal at the end of year 3, there was also a significant proportion of fans saying the same thing as you. The latter were wrong. Firing him after three years caused absolutely no long term damage to the program (the long-term effect was a significant improvement) and probably not any significant short term damage either. Two of Lickliter's recruits, Ben Brust and Cody Larsen, decided to go elsewhere but the other two (Marble and McCabe) stuck by their commitments and McCaffrey was able to bring in two recruits that probably provided more immediate help than the defecting recruits would have.

The difference between Lickliter and Pitino is that Pitino hasn't failed as badly as Lickliter and, even if one believes that Pitino is not the long term solution, good arguments can be made that Pitino deserves more time. The only argument that could be used to support Lickliter's continued employment was the "fear of the unknown" argument that you are advancing. Based on years of observation, I don't think that argument has any empirical reality. There will always be a hungry coach willing to take a step up in compensation and prestige and willing to bear the risk of failure.
 

cjbfbp said:
I can agree that Pitino probably deserves at least one more year. What I don't agree with is that firing him prior to that time would do significant damage to the program and its national reputation. I witnessed the three-year Todd Lickliter debacle at Iowa. While a significant proportion of fans were calling for his dismissal at the end of year 3, there was also a significant proportion of fans saying the same thing as you. The latter were wrong. Firing him after three years caused absolutely no long term damage to the program (the long-term effect was a significant improvement) and probably not any significant short term damage either. Two of Lickliter's recruits, Ben Brust and Cody Larsen, decided to go elsewhere but the other two (Marble and McCabe) stuck by their commitments and McCaffrey was able to bring in two recruits that probably provided more immediate help than the defecting recruits would have.

The difference between Lickliter and Pitino is that Pitino hasn't failed as badly as Lickliter and, even if one believes that Pitino is not the long term solution, good arguments can be made that Pitino deserves more time. The only argument that could be used to support Lickliter's continued employment was the "fear of the unknown" argument that you are advancing. Based on years of observation, I don't think that argument has any empirical reality. There will always be a hungry coach willing to take a step up in compensation and prestige and willing to bear the risk of failure.
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No, I am not advancing a fear of the unknown - you are are.

You are seeing Pitino as the exact same situation as Lickliter. You can learn from experience, or you can mistakenly see everything as being exactly what we experienced previously whether it is true or not. There are ALWAYS people saying the coach should go or stay. Only time will tell, which is why I think this is dumb argument.

L replaced Alford, who had voluntarily left for New Mexico and who had replaced the successful Davis - these two missing the NCAA tournament only 4 times in 21 seasons. Of course Alfords teams were not producing in the tourney and he was in a bit of hot water. But then Lickliter then led to the worst 3-year run in their history. So L was a blip in what had been stability. These two situations have almost nothing in common except for the fact that it is basketball and coaching and a desire for greater success. We have not had productive stability since Clem, saving over-stability in Tubby.

So sticking with Pitino is being willing to take a risk and dumping him is the fearful response in my opinion.
 

Saw a lot of good things yesterday, in no particular order, but not limited to:

Pitino handling this tough stretch how I'd want a coach to handle it, not brow-beating (at least publicly) his young team and trying to keep them positive. The Gophers responded yesterday, COMPETED.

The fans. Good to see we haven't given up yet. Need to continue heeding Pitino's request and support this team. Don't expect all the crowds to be as large as yesterday, but the noise volume needs to continue.

Murphy: Quickly has become the most dangerous player.

Bakary: Was productive yesterday. Need those kind of minutes.

Nevertheless, the small lineup remains our best chance: Mason, Morris, Murphy, King, some combo of McBrayer/Dorsey is our best lineup. Dorsey and Mason were really good yesterday.

Yes MSU is a ton different without Denzel, but the Gophers competed well vs. a team with more talent and one that has seasoned players coming off a Final Four: Forbes, Costello, Tum Tum, Schilling, not to mention a really good transfer (Harris). That's a good sign.

Now the encore is important. Follow it up by playing well in Happy Valley, a chance to nab an early road win in conference play, something precious in these parts.
 

I took a break from the home improvement project and watched enough of the game to know the outcome. I'm not your typical Gopher fan in that I don't pump myself up with a 12-0 football prediction nor do I pump myself up with some BS "just wait until next season" mentality. If you've paid any attention over the past years we're always "waiting until next season" and then we're always disappointed. The Gophers may be marginally better next season in basketball but I'm not getting my hopes up.

My apologies if it doesn't gel with the thoughts of most of you on the board. You may be sunshine and unicorns but I'm a realist.
 

What would make me have more faith in Pitino is seeing him get more vocal and firm about blatant screw ups onvthe court more, and be .500 in the B1G Season.

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The team was better when Dorsey was on the court. I'm beginning to love that kid. He's got the heart of a lion.
 

Some people seem to think it is only possible to have one of two extreme opinions. Essentially if you don't think Pitino sucks and should be fired right now then you think he should be given a 20 year contract extension.

Also, I'm not sure what everyone else thinks, but it is hard for me to take anyone serious when they keep referring to him as "Lil Ricky". I used to name call like that but then I moved into high school.
 


GophersInIowa said:
Some people seem to think it is only possible to have one of two extreme opinions. Essentially if you don't think Pitino sucks and should be fired right now then you think he should be given a 20 year contract extension. Also, I'm not sure what everyone else thinks, but it is hard for me to take anyone serious when they keep referring to him as "Lil Ricky". I used to name call like that but then I moved into high school.
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He's an adult that loves comic books. That may explain some of it.
 

Moonlight said:
No, I am not advancing a fear of the unknown - you are are.

You are seeing Pitino as the exact same situation as Lickliter.
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No, I am not and I think I made that clear. Lickliter was a complete failure in his three years and Pitino hasn't been.

The main theme of my post was that I don't see any clear evidence that a quick firing leads to significant damage to a program and its national reputation. The Lickliter situation is just one example of that but there are others (Pat Knight at Texas Tech, Billie Gillespie at Kentucky). I'm sure I could come up with others if I cared to take the time. I think you would have a harder time finding examples of firings that you could link conclusively to significant damage of a program and its reputation. Puncturing a purely speculative theory is always much easier than demonstrating one.
 

Gopher2017 said:
I took a break from the home improvement project and watched enough of the game to know the outcome. I'm not your typical Gopher fan in that I don't pump myself up with a 12-0 football prediction nor do I pump myself up with some BS "just wait until next season" mentality. If you've paid any attention over the past years we're always "waiting until next season" and then we're always disappointed. The Gophers may be marginally better next season in basketball but I'm not getting my hopes up.

My apologies if it doesn't gel with the thoughts of most of you on the board. You may be sunshine and unicorns but I'm a realist.
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I'm a realist, too, and am tired of moral victories. Nevertheless, that doesn't preclude me from pointing out things I like, or areas where I see improvement. There is an existence in between the lunatic fringe that exists on both ends. You do realize that, right?
 

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