Offense Next Year - Run/Pass Splits

skiumah1

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Really like the kid coming in from New Hampshire, but no question I have my concerns about our offensive coordinating as well as the Fleck effect on the offense. Same story.

I'd hope for a 50/50 pass to rush split next year but that seems unrealistic.

Curious others thoughts.
 

Really like the kid coming in from New Hampshire, but no question I have my concerns about our offensive coordinating as well as the Fleck effect on the offense. Same story.

I'd hope for a 50/50 pass to rush split next year but that seems unrealistic.

Curious others thoughts.
I looked up the splits a few years ago for CFB and to be successful, you can still run the ball more than you pass it - we need to a higher completion percentage and increased YPA. Quality >Quantity.
 
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Really like the kid coming in from New Hampshire, but no question I have my concerns about our offensive coordinating as well as the Fleck effect on the offense. Same story.

I'd hope for a 50/50 pass to rush split next year but that seems unrealistic.

Curious others thoughts.
I like 60/40. We have a strong running game and using up clock limits the exposure of the defense. 40 percent pass is enough to keep the other team from loading up on the run.
 

As teams move more and more towards offenses that resemble 7 on 7 flag football, and defenses adjust to defend that style, there will be openings for a handful of teams to exploit the speed defenses with good ol' power football played by large strong men. Personally, I hope Fleck stays with the power football style while adding an effective big play passing offense...so, like 2019. That team had about a 60% run/40% pass mix if I recall correctly. Michigan this year has a similar mix and I love that offense.

Up until the bowl game, I believe the Gophs had the lowest run percentage of any Fleck coached Gopher team. The Gophs tried to pass the ball more but sucked at it. The season opener vs. Nebraska was the perfect illustration for that.
 


60/40. Fleck will never pass more than run and I'm fine with that.
 

The goal is always balance. But that doesn't mean a 50/50 split. 2019 is still the template for what a balanced offense can look like under Fleck. Unfortunately the passing game has not kept pace with the run game in the years after 2019.

Hopefully some steady play from Brosmer and improvement by the WRs can get us closer to that balanced attack where we can take what the defense gives us. Because above all else that is what the 2019 team was great at.....when teams loaded up on the run we killed them with slants and passing.....when they loaded up to stop the pass we were able to gash them on the ground.
 

Really like the kid coming in from New Hampshire, but no question I have my concerns about our offensive coordinating as well as the Fleck effect on the offense. Same story.

I'd hope for a 50/50 pass to rush split next year but that seems unrealistic.

Curious others thoughts.
2019 was 55% run, 45% pass. I’d take that, if we throw downfield a lot as in 2019.

If 2024 features a mixture of passes, including short passes to RBs that are essentially outside running plays, I’d favor 50/50.
 




For context, conference games pass/run attempts for these three teams.

Wisconsin passed 51%.

Minnesota passed 42%

Ohio State passed 47%.


1703521842088.png



So with the new QB maybe Minnesota will go up to ???

Would be nice if Gophers had one more good pass catcher.
 

Really like the kid coming in from New Hampshire, but no question I have my concerns about our offensive coordinating as well as the Fleck effect on the offense. Same story.

I'd hope for a 50/50 pass to rush split next year but that seems unrealistic.

Curious others thoughts.
Considering Gophs averaged around 62 plays a game in 2023, it is not a completely wild split. I think 45/55 is a more achievable split if the guy is legit.
 

For context, conference games pass/run attempts for these three teams.

Wisconsin passed 51%.

Minnesota passed 42%

Ohio State passed 47%.


1703521842088.png



So with the new QB maybe Minnesota will go up to ???

Would be nice if Gophers had one more good pass catcher.
Why only conference games? With the bowl game I have the Gophs running 817 offensive plays in 2023. 312 were passes for 38% overall.
 

With our schedule next year, we will run a lot, just to shorten the games. I would like to see our offense, become more creative and less predictable, next year.
 



Why only conference games? With the bowl game I have the Gophs running 817 offensive plays in 2023. 312 were passes for 38% overall.

There are tradeoffs with each group of stats. Use whichever ones you think best.

Playing soft non-conference teams like Immaculate Conception College Online can skew numbers, but then looking at it the other way is another argument... choose whatever you like. Tradeoffs either way
 


Just seems like even if the kid can throw the ball, Fleck pulls back as soon as mistakes happen.

He had trust in Kirk C at the OC spot so I think he pulled all of the strings in 2019. I don't know if he has that same confidence in these guys now.

Obviously WRs were big time in 2019 as well. I don't mind the group we have now though.

I agree that predictably is a key. Maybe don't have to be 50/50 - But throw the ball on first and second down more. Keep D guessing.

The players are there at this point IMO.
 

Think it's situational. Can't just look at overall number of plays and decide that things are equal/different as it's about when you are throwing. We steamrolled the shit out of teams in the middle of our schedule in 2019 which skews the end metrics. Secondarily, we led in many games so you are running late to salt away a game.

In short, i'd like to see close to a 50/50 split when we are tied and trying to score and if we're salting away games late with the running game/ground and pound so that that number gets closer to 57/43 by games end, perfect. I think that's the dynamic we've been missing now as instead we're throwing only when forced or behind rather than using it to get ahead.
 

Really like the kid coming in from New Hampshire, but no question I have my concerns about our offensive coordinating as well as the Fleck effect on the offense. Same story.

I'd hope for a 50/50 pass to rush split next year but that seems unrealistic.

Curious others thoughts.

Is the goal to pass more, or to win the game(s)?

In 2019, the Gophers finished 11-2, #10 ranked nationally... the ratio that season was 37% pass, 63% run. Not even close to your preferred 50-50.

Were you disappointed in a Top Ten team because they didn't throw as often as you like?
 

Is the goal to pass more, or to win the game(s)?

In 2019, the Gophers finished 11-2, #10 ranked nationally... the ratio that season was 37% pass, 63% run. Not even close to your preferred 50-50.

Were you disappointed in a Top Ten team because they didn't throw as often as you like?
Yep, it's more. You have to also look at the yardage split. 2019 and 2023 were almost the same if you look at the split of plays. Huge difference in yardage and split. 2023 had more yards on the ground. 2019 had (a lot) more yards through the air, averaging 100 more yards per game than 2023. 2019 had the ability to take the top off through the air, 2023 didn't.
 

Is the goal to pass more, or to win the game(s)?

In 2019, the Gophers finished 11-2, #10 ranked nationally... the ratio that season was 37% pass, 63% run. Not even close to your preferred 50-50.

Were you disappointed in a Top Ten team because they didn't throw as often as you like?
We had the best passing attack in the Big 10 in 2019.
 


Yes! But we did not have anywhere near a 50/50 pass/run ratio. Exactly my point.
But I think you're arguing against a notion that no one would disagree with. If we could have a passing attack as good as 2019, no one would complain.
 

Yep, it's more. You have to also look at the yardage split. 2019 and 2023 were almost the same if you look at the split of plays. Huge difference in yardage and split. 2023 had more yards on the ground. 2019 had (a lot) more yards through the air, averaging 100 more yards per game than 2023. 2019 had the ability to take the top off through the air, 2023 didn't.

2019 had a QB who was delivering accurate passes and being decisive.

But it wasn't close to a 50/50 split in pass/run attempts. 63% rushing attempts, 37% passing.
 

But I think you're arguing against a notion that no one would disagree with. If we could have a passing attack as good as 2019, no one would complain.

If it's about quality rather than quantity, then we would (hopefully) all agree.

Is that what the OP was talking about? I took his original post to mean he wanted a 50/50 split in pass/run attempts.
 


We had the best passing attack in the Big 10 in 2019.

Was it the best or second best? For all practical purposes, maybe a tie.

The total passing yards for Minnesota and Ohio State were almost identical with Ohio State having a very small lead.

Tanner lead the league in yards per attempt in the conference (a whopping 10.2; good for 4th in the nation; the Eagles' Jalen Hurts was #1) with OSU's Justin Fields 2nd in the league and 8th in the nation.

Fields had the highest passing efficiency rating in the conference (3rd in the nation) with Tanner in second place in the conference (5th in the nation).

Either way, a remarkable passing season for the Gophers. I didn't realize at the time that I'd probably never see that again from the team. We'll see how close we can get next season with Brosmer coming in.
 

2019 had a QB who was delivering accurate passes and being decisive.

But it wasn't close to a 50/50 split in pass/run attempts. 63% rushing attempts, 37% passing.
Said right in my post that the split for 2019 was almost the same as 2023. That team also had two future NFL receivers.
 

If the QB can pass good I expect we will do so.

This year showed the opposite. Just depends on if the players execute.

Yes, I expect that we will pass more next season than any season since 2019 but, with Taylor still in the fold, we're going to run a lot.

Brosmer averaged 41 passing attempts per game last season. I don't think Fleck would have brought in a QB like that with the understanding that he'd probably average 22 passes per game.
 

Skip if you can't stand essays:

I had thought we passed more in 2019, but I checked again and Murray is right. In 2019, our split was 63% run, 37% pass. PJ probably will never pass more than 40% because he wants to shorten/control games. And incomplete passes lengthen games. By comparison, in this just closed out 2023 season our split was 62% run, 38% pass.

What I think so many GHs are trying to articulate is that, if we are win more toss-up games, and occasionally pull off an upset of a ranked opponent, something has to change dramatically in our passing game--not splits necessarily, but effectiveness.

Let's first compare our 2019 to 2023 rushing numbers, keeping in mind that in 2019 (even with PJ's predilection to run the clock down) we attempted 883 plays; in 2023 we attempted only 817 plays. Anyway, in 2019 (with a great 3-back rotation: Smith, Brooks and Ibrahim) we attempted 560 rushes for 2323 yards net, or 4.1 yards per attempt. In 2023, with injuries decimating our RBs and a walk-on RB carrying a heavy load at year's end, we attempted 505 rushes for 2048 yards net, or 4.1 yards per attempt. Very, very similar--even with injuries among our RBs. We have a good OL. Because of more plays being run in 2019, we averaged 178.7 rushing yards per game, but only 157.5 in 2019. A significant difference was that we scored 25 rushing TDs in 2019, but only 13 in 2023.

The difference in what we did with 37% passes in 2019 and 38% passes in 2023 is far more stark. We attempted 323 passes in 2019, 312 passes in 2023. Pretty much the same. There, however, the similarity ends. The Gophers completed 212 (65.6%) passes in 2019, but only 164 (52.5%) in 2023. The Gophers passed for 3293 yards in 2019, but only 1864 yards in 2023. Yards per attempt (not per completions, but per attempts) was an astounding 10.2 yards in 2023; in 2023 it was 5.97 yards. The passing game produced 31 TDs in 2019; it produced 16 in 2023.

So, for me, when I bitch about the passing game, I guess it really isn't necessarily about passing more--because PJ just isn't going to pass more than 40% (unless we start throwing to RBs in the flat, which are essentially running plays with a long lateral). It is about having a competent passing attack that is mutually productive with the running game, and one that stresses defenses more.

In 2019, our passing attack (37% of plays) produced far more yardage than our 2019 running game (3293 vs. 2323); more TDs also (31 vs 25). In 2019 and 2023, we had nearly the same number of rushing plays and exactly the same yards per rush (4.1), yet in 2019 we scored 56 TDs while in 2019 we scored only 29 TDs! In 2019, we averaged 253.3 passing yards per game; in 2023 we averaged only 143.4 passing yards per game.

To me it's pretty simple. So long as PJ's core strategy is to shorten games, the Gophers are going to run the ball at least 60% of the time. Our running game is designed to control games and to win, essentially alone, games against lesser opponents. Our running game can win toss up games almost alone, too, provided we play suffocating defense and have some positive production from our return teams (giving us some field position advantages). But to consistently come out on top in toss up games, and to have a chance in games against ranked opponents (which will be more common starting in 2024), we need a much more productive passing game. Our rushing game, already producing near its ceiling, simply can't be expected to handle the majority of points production and yardage in a high-scoring game.

We could increase our passing yardage, and probably our passing TDs, by throwing much more. Our passing game is always more productive per play than our running game. In 2019, on 37% of our plays, the passing game produced 58.6% of our yardage and 55.3% of outr TDs. Even our miserable 2023 passing game produced 5.97 yards per attempt compared to our dominant running game's 4.10 yards per attempt. And our miserable 2023 passing game produced 16 TDs to our rushing game's 13 TDs. But, because of PJ's game control orientation, we aren't going to be throwing much more. So, to be competitive in tougher games, we ned to squeeze a lot more productions (yards and TDs) out of the 38% or so passes. Which is why it is best that Athan has moved on. And why Brosmer can make such a huge difference next year, especially in our many tough games.

Go Gophers.
 
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Skip if you can't stand essays:

I had thought we passed more in 2019, but I checked again and Murray is right. In 2019, our split was 63% run, 37% pass. PJ probably will never pass more than 40% because he wants to shorten/control games. And incomplete passes lengthen games. By comparison, in this just closed out 2023 season our split was 62% run, 38% pass.

What I think so many GHs are trying to articulate is that, if we are win more toss-up games, and occasionally pull off an upset of a ranked opponent, something has to change dramatically in our passing game--not splits necessarily, but effectiveness.

Let's first compare our 2019 to 2023 rushing numbers, keeping in mind that in 2019 (even with PJ's predilection to run the clock down) we attempted 883 plays; in 2023 we attempted only 817 plays. Anyway, in 2019 (with a great 3-back rotation: Smith, Brooks and Ibrahim) we attempted 560 rushes for 2323 yards net, or 4.1 yards per attempt. In 2023, with injuries decimating our RBs and a walk-on RB carrying a heavy load at year's end, we attempted 505 rushes for 2048 yards net, or 4.1 yards per attempt. Very, very similar--even with injuries among our RBs. We have a good OL. Because of more plays being run in 2019, we averaged 178.7 rushing yards per game, but only 157.5 in 2019. A significant difference was that we scored 25 rushing TDs in 2019, but only 13 in 2023.

The difference in what we did with 37% passes in 2019 and 38% passes in 2023 is far more stark. We attempted 323 passes in 2019, 312 passes in 2023. Pretty much the same. There, however, the similarity ends. The Gophers completed 212 (65.6%) passes in 2019, but only 164 (52.5%) in 2023. The Gophers passed for 3293 yards in 2019, but only 1864 yards in 2023. Yards per attempt (not per completions, but per attempts) was an astounding 10.2 yards in 2023; in 2023 it was 5.97 yards. The passing game produced 31 TDs in 2019; it produced 16 in 2023.

So, for me, when I bitch about the passing game, I guess it really isn't about passing more--because PJ just isn't going to pass more than 40% (unless we start throwing to RBs in the flat, which are essentially running plays with a long lateral). It is about having a competent passing attack that is mutually productive with the running game, and one that stresses defenses more.

In 2019, our passing attack (37% of plays) produced far more yardage than our 2019 running game (3293 vs. 2323); more TDs also (31 vs 25). In 2019 and 2023, we had nearly the same number of rushing plays and exactly the same yards per rush (4.1), yet in 2019 we scored 56 TDs while in 2019 we scored only 29 TDs! In 2019, we averaged 253.3 passing yards per game; in 2023 we averaged only 143.4 yards per game.

To me it's pretty simple. So long as PJ's core strategy is to shorten games, the Gophers are going to run the ball at least 60% of the time. Our running game is designed to control games and to win, essentially alone, games against lesser opponents. Our running game can win toss up games almost alone, too, provided we play suffocating defense and have some positive production from our return Its (giving us some field position advantages). But to consistently come out on top in toss up games, and to have a chance in games against ranked opponents (which will be more common starting in 2024). we need a massively more productive passing game. Our rushing game, already producing near its ceiling, simply can't be expected to handle 70% of points production and yardage in a high-scoring game.

We could increase our passing yardage, and probably our passing TDs, by throwing much more. Our passing game is always more productive per play than our running game. In 2019, on 37% of our plays, the passing game produced 58.6% of our yardage and 55.3% of outr TDs. Even our miserable 2023 passing game produced 5.97 yards per attempt compared to our dominant running game's 4.10 yards per attempt. And our miserable 2023 passing game produced 16 TDs to our rushing game's 13 TDs. But, because of PJ's game control orientation, we aren't really going to be competitive in tougher games unless and until we squeeze a lot more productions (yards and TDs) out of the 38% or so passes. Which is why it is best that Athan has moved on. And why Brosmer can make such a huge difference next year, especially in our many tough games.

Go Gophers.
Sir ... so is that 3 roast beefs with cheese?
 




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