Obligatory Max Shortell thread. How will he be used going forward?

Donate To GopherHole
Rosemountian said:
Earth to gopher fans....

Outside of the first 2 drives where the whole team played like deer in headlights gray played better than Shortelle. Even including those drives gray had a better completion percentage and fewer turnovers.


Max looked good, and that's good. But keep it in your pants people.
Click to expand...


We have a BINGO!!!
 

Pouring gas on the thread

The stats are nearly identical between the two quarterbacks. One has 3 more seasons with the Gophers and still can't out perform the freshman. Not exactly a big attaboy. MG has a penchant for fumbleitus. That is a case of nerves. Shortell came in and performed just as gutsy but with no initial errors. His interception was at the most stressful point of the game, the last minutes, when most interceptions occur. The funniest thing about having a QB controversy is that it is a public/fan thing. The coaches are not exactly going to be impacted by this. What a great thing to have from a PR perspective. Now we will have a true QB competition every day from here on out. So, bring it on. MG didn't beat out Weber and was moved by Brew to be a WR, which means, he was ranked below other QB's in depth (realistically speaking), at least in Brewster's mind (a non-public position [reading between the lines]). Now we have another Brew highly recruited QB kicking the butt of a similarly ranked player. I think in retrospect that Brew knew that MG was not an accurate enough passer to succeed and had a tendency to fumble too much. Shortell will be starting by the time the B1G starts because Kill will not tolerate unforced turnovers. MG should be a WR, a position that he is natural at. The whole argument that Kill won't do this or that is as speculative as anything I have read. Why wouldn't he mull it over if he has other QB's that can throw in the bullpen. Even Allipate, gooboy, can toss a decent ball, relatively speaking.
 

This entire thread is ridiculous. Gray is the starting QB and unquestioned leader of this team. I also think many on this board are greatly over-hyping his play at WR last year. He ran poor routes and many of those catches/stats were racked up in
Webber (I mean garbage) time.

As to yesterdays game: Gray was clearly nervous and afraid to make mistakes early. He settled down and made better
decisions as the game went on. The offensive line did him no favors as well. I think as the non-conference season goes on we will see the offense progress and Gray's play improve.
 

I think Kill saw what he had been seeing all along in practice. He has (some) depth at QB, but not a lot of experience yet. He has two QBs that are different in that one runs better and one passes better. He has one who is a leader both on and off the field. He started that one and Q faced a fresh defense designed to stop him from running.

Shortell comes in against a gassed defense that wasn’t prepared for him slinging balls so well and I thought an O line that was pass blocking better than the first half. As everyone knows the stats were not that different between the two.

I think Kill will get both of them more reps in the next three games, but I still think Q starts. I would feel pretty confident as a coach if I have Shortell coming off the bench anytime.
 

Why do people keep saying that Gray is a redshirt Jr.? I haven't the foggiest where anyone got that idea.

Also, Gray and Shortell were not "similarly ranked" as recruits. Not even in the same ballpark, actually. Gray was, by far, the highest-ranked Minnesota recruit in the Rivals era, and no one else has even been close.

As for the overall point of this abortion of a thread, I will concede that Shortell looked good, really good actually, but that doesn't change the fact that Gray has been preparing to play QB for most of three years, and has finally gotten his chance. Now, many are ready to throw him back at WR (a position he hasn't practiced at in a year, btw), when he faced a defense that has had the better part of a year to prepare specifically for him. Moreover, moving him back to WR would mean he won't be preparing to play QB in practice, and thus we would always be one play away from potentially having Parish as the full-time QB, which would be an unmitigated disaster for a Big Ten team.

I can actually hear an argument for Shortell starting and/or getting a significant share of snaps, but moving Gray to WR is pretty much the dumbest idea ever.
 



dpodoll68 said:
Why do people keep saying that Gray is a redshirt Jr.? I haven't the foggiest where anyone got that idea.
Click to expand...

Captain obvious here, but I think that perhaps some people that don't follow the team super closely assume that Gray redshirted when he had his score flagged and had to sit out a year.

My dad watched the game (and he doesn't know a lot about football/the Gophers) and he said to me afterwards that Gray looked like he was a thinking slowly out there, and Shortell was crisp and looked like a real quarterback. I use him as my "casual fan meter". Not surprised that there is a "QB controversy" in the public.
 

Dpoballs, you're right. MG isn't a redshirt junior. He is a junior. BFD.

Dpoballs, you're wrong about MG not practicing WR last year. That is the primary position he played. I bet he practiced more reps at WR than QB.

As of 6 hours ago according to the Pioneer Press, Jerry Kill hasn't decided yet who will play QB next week. I think Jerry Kill is thinking about his QB starter. Looks like he saw the fire in Shortell and how he responded to playing. MG might have lost his role by not getting it done in the first half. Only so much of the blame falls on the plan. Some of it falls on the execution and indicision of MG to make the right play. After all, coach Kill likes quick, effective signal callers. He has stated this repeatedly last spring. Go ahead and bury your head in the sand. MG is not that good. In the previous 2 years. His two drives were a pathetic 50.2 and 83.4 QB rating. Even though his current 112 rating is up, that isn't terrific. I don't see why we should have admiring eyes for MG just because he is a great athlete. What has he done for the team so far? He lost. What did he do in the last 2 years? Less than his reputation commanded. What has he done that is so wonderful? I really want to know, because I am no longer enthusiastic about saying he is good. I hate pipedreams and the lame ass excuses that others lay down. What excuse for MG do you have to knock my idea of playing Shortell and switching MG to reciever?
 

Oneoldgopher said:
Dpoballs, you're right. MG isn't a redshirt junior. He is a junior. BFD.

Dpoballs, you're wrong about MG not practicing WR last year. That is the primary position he played. I bet he practiced more reps at WR than QB.

As of 6 hours ago according to the Pioneer Press, Jerry Kill hasn't decided yet who will play QB next week. I think Jerry Kill is thinking about his QB starter. Looks like he saw the fire in Shortell and how he responded to playing. MG might have lost his role by not getting it done in the first half. Only so much of the blame falls on the plan. Some of it falls on the execution and indicision of MG to make the right play. After all, coach Kill likes quick, effective signal callers. He has stated this repeatedly last spring. Go ahead and bury your head in the sand. MG is not that good. In the previous 2 years. His two drives were a pathetic 50.2 and 83.4 QB rating. Even though his current 112 rating is up, that isn't terrific. I don't see why we should have admiring eyes for MG just because he is a great athlete. What has he done for the team so far? He lost. What did he do in the last 2 years? Less than his reputation commanded. What has he done that is so wonderful? I really want to know, because I am no longer enthusiastic about saying he is good. I hate pipedreams and the lame ass excuses that others lay down. What excuse for MG do you have to knock my idea of playing Shortell and switching MG to reciever?
Click to expand...

You really suck at this. I wish you would stand by your statement of 4+months ago, and just stop visiting this board
 



station19 said:
After one game Shortell has shown to be the better passer and has better pocket pressence.

The next two or three games will give us and the coaches a better read. I expect Max will get plenty of snaps.

Shortell is a true freshman yet people are making excuses for Gray(a red-shirt jr who has practiced and taken snaps at qb in the BT).

My incredible football knowledge tells me Shortell will be starting long before his jr year.
Click to expand...

Bingo.

I hope Gray steps up his game in the next couple of weeks and becomes the QB that a lot of Gopher fans think he is but I just haven't seen anything to lead me to believe it will happen. Yes, it's early. Yes, he played WR last year so we should all think that he forgot everything about being a QB that he ever learned in his life.

He's the starting QB and he'll be the starter for the foreseeable future. Past that, anything could happen.
 


I wonder if one of the missed checks Kill mentioned in Sid's article was on the 3rd & 1 play that resulted in the interception?
 

Shortell wouldn't have survived the first half with pressure SC was putting on.He gets knocked out of the game let's see we make Gray a full time receiver so Parrish comes in.I think giving Gray so little time to prove himself may be sterotyping him as a certain type of QB.
 



Sorry if already posted...

http://espn.go.com/blog/ncfnation/post/_/id/46114/3-point-stance-perspectives-on-week-1

From Ivan Maisel's blog on ESPN:

"3. Can anyone recall a true freshman quarterback who debuted in a big-boy stadium and showed the cool of Utah State’s Chuckie Keeton? How about Minnesota’s Max Shortell, who came into the fourth quarter at the Los Angeles Memorial Stadium and completed 7-of-13 for 98 yards and a touchdown. The Gophers, who spotted USC a 19-3 lead, had a chance to win the game in the last two minutes before falling, 19-17. Here’s hoping Keeton and Shortell build on their starts and wow us for four seasons."
 

This thread has taken a life of its own......

Just imagine, one week ago, the members of this forum were discussing the merits of redshirting Shortell because he presumably wasn't ready to play and we needed to preserve his elligibility. Now we are discussing whether he should be the starting QB after playing 1 quarter. amazing.
 

We have an amazing group of experts here!

WHB Brewer said:
Just imagine, one week ago, the members of this forum were discussing the merits of redshirting Shortell because he presumably wasn't ready to play and we needed to preserve his elligibility. Now we are discussing whether he should be the starting QB after playing 1 quarter. amazing.
Click to expand...

Yes WHB Brewer, it is amazing! I am sure, as Sid would say; all the geniuses here will have plenty to say about the quarterback position this week. The good news is that Coach Kill and his staff won't be reading the GopherHole for advice. That allows me to sleep very well at night. :)
 

Shortell play exceptionally well for a freshmen. USC was in a prevent and occassionally blitzed. Shortell is very immobile and i think he is better off the bench. Grays feet puts a lot of defenses on their heels. Watch Gray against average linebacker speed before we bench him for one really good game.
 


Figured I would re-post this here since the thread I started yesterday didn't get much play (understandably so :) ), and was I believe misunderstood by some from the one comment it received. ESPN's KC Joiner wrote this in a recent insider blog to Missou fans. It seems appropriate for us as well pertaining to our QB discussion, so I inserted Minnesota and QBs where fitting.

"One of the most useful football analytic maxims is a classic Chris Berman-Tom Jackson saying: Once is an accident, twice is a trend, three times is a fact. What this means is for something to be accepted as being the norm for a player or a team, it has to happen on a consistent basis. A single, or even double, occurrence of an event simply does not provide enough evidence to make a hands-down case for it to be considered par for the course. This is a good axiom for [Minnesota] fans to keep in mind [regarding their QB situation]..."

http://insider.espn.go.com/college-f...-related-myths

So why not wait a couple more games and see what happens before we really rev up the QB controversy. Just sayin'...:)
 

march madness said:
Shortell play exceptionally well for a freshmen. USC was in a prevent and occassionally blitzed. Shortell is very immobile and i think he is better off the bench. Grays feet puts a lot of defenses on their heels. Watch Gray against average linebacker speed before we bench him for one really good game.
Click to expand...

As evidenced by his 3rd and 8 scramble for a first down in his first college football play ever.
 



I knew this kind of talk would come out after watching that game. But I do think we all really need to calm down a little bit:

First off, the whole entire team was off that 1st half. Line wasn't protecting well, run game was not consistent, Gray wasn't given many places to go. The team in the 2nd half was not the same team, they started gaining confidence, protection improved, things were looking up. When Gray got hurt, there was some momentum on their side. But when Shortell came in, he really provided quite the spark. He looked fantastic for a freshman honestly. Yes, he looked better than Gray.

But let's remember, that USC defense basically based their game plan on stopping MarQueis Gray. It's a tad different coming into a game in the middle of the battle and the defense not completely being prepared to face you. They backed off a little bit, I don't think they were sure how to handle him. Shortell did excellent, but there is a small bit of leap from being backup who comes in and produces, to now being THE guy to lead the squad and running things when the defense has some tape on you and game plans to take away your strengths. Let's not go overboard on the "Start Shortell" kick until we have some more evidence to go on.
 

Monty519 said:
I knew this kind of talk would come out after watching that game. But I do think we all really need to calm down a little bit:

First off, the whole entire team was off that 1st half. Line wasn't protecting well, run game was not consistent, Gray wasn't given many places to go. The team in the 2nd half was not the same team, they started gaining confidence, protection improved, things were looking up. When Gray got hurt, there was some momentum on their side. But when Shortell came in, he really provided quite the spark. He looked fantastic for a freshman honestly. Yes, he looked better than Gray.

But let's remember, that USC defense basically based their game plan on stopping MarQueis Gray. It's a tad different coming into a game in the middle of the battle and the defense not completely being prepared to face you. They backed off a little bit, I don't think they were sure how to handle him. Shortell did excellent, but there is a small bit of leap from being backup who comes in and produces, to now being THE guy to lead the squad and running things when the defense has some tape on you and game plans to take away your strengths. Let's not go overboard on the "Start Shortell" kick until we have some more evidence to go on.
Click to expand...

For me, there are two different ways to evaluate what both QB's did; production and appearance.

It would be one thing if Shortell just came in and somehow produced. In the second half in particular, both QB's I would say "produced" and had some success. But I also have to look at how they looked.

Calm, comfortable, relaxed, poised, confident. I think if you asked anybody who watched that game who you were talking about when using those words, the answer would not be Gray.

I'm not saying Shortell should be starting (yet). But it wouldn't surprise me if it happens sometime in the next two years.

That all being, I'm pulling like hell for Gray to improve every week, gain confidence, and take command of this offense and this team. I think the Gophers are better if Gray gets it together, no doubt about it. I would say he just now has a little less time to do that.
 

tikited said:
Based on what?
Click to expand...
Doesn't look very quick to me.He lumbered for one first down .Which was great to see.He looks slower than Weber.Doesn't mean he won't be a good QB.But this offensive is made for Gray, give him a little time.He could really be good. lol
 

Ogee Oglethorpe said:
For me, there are two different ways to evaluate what both QB's did; production and appearance.

It would be one thing if Shortell just came in and somehow produced. In the second half in particular, both QB's I would say "produced" and had some success. But I also have to look at how they looked.

Calm, comfortable, relaxed, poised, confident. I think if you asked anybody who watched that game who you were talking about when using those words, the answer would not be Gray.

I'm not saying Shortell should be starting (yet). But it wouldn't surprise me if it happens sometime in the next two years.

That all being, I'm pulling like hell for Gray to improve every week, gain confidence, and take command of this offense and this team. I think the Gophers are better if Gray gets it together, no doubt about it. I would say he just now has a little less time to do that.
Click to expand...
I think you judge things on results not appearance.That makes no sense.You can be as calm as could be and throw pick after pick.There are no points for acting cool.
 

Blackhammer said:
I think you judge things on results not appearance.That makes no sense.You can be as calm as could be and throw pick after pick.There are no points for acting cool.
Click to expand...

I hope I'm wrong in assuming that from this response you completely missed the point I was making?

Soooo, results aside (since obviously the numbers for both were very similar), you would prefer a QB with happy feet? The appearance of panic and complete and utter terror would not bother you one bit? Body language means absolutely nothing?

I am thoroughly impressed with your grasp of the game.
 

Blackhammer said:
Shortell wouldn't have survived the first half with pressure SC was putting on.He gets knocked out of the game let's see we make Gray a full time receiver so Parrish comes in.I think giving Gray so little time to prove himself may be sterotyping him as a certain type of QB.
Click to expand...

I think I will stereotype you as a certain type of poster.
 

I will say Shortell looked like he had no idea he was playing USC on the road on national TV .He looked like he was having a fun.He also seemed to be passing on an SC secondary that was sleep walking and amazed the Gophers were even passing.My basic problem with the whole qb thing is how based on so little, fans are jumping on the bandwagon for Max and moving Gray to wide receiver.If Kill decides that is best than I'm all for it.He the one who sees these kids everyday.I find this qb issue so predictable.But I guess that's what fans and media do.
 

Blackhammer said:
I will say Shortell looked like he had no idea he was playing USC on the road on national TV .He looked like he was having a fun.He also seemed to be passing on an SC secondary that was sleep walking and amazed the Gophers were even passing.My basic problem with the whole qb thing is how based on so little, fans are jumping on the bandwagon for Max and moving Gray to wide receiver.If Kill decides that is best than I'm all for it.He the one who sees these kids everyday.I find this qb issue so predictable.But I guess that's what fans and media do.
Click to expand...

I wholeheartedly agree; the notion of moving Gray back to WR based just on what happened Saturday is ridiculous (premature at best). I doubt that possibility has even entered the minds of anybody on the staff.

I have no doubt the USC defense was probably not well-prepared for the concept of the Gophers passing the ball. Based on what many of US have seen, I wouldn't be very concerned with Gray as a passer either. I'm sure Gray beating USC with his arm was the LAST thing on their minds.

Like I said, this thing will sort itself out on it's own without any help from anybody here. My college coach had a saying, "The cream always rises to the top." Whether it's Gray or Shortell, I'm confident that Kill will have the QB out there that gives the Gophers the best chance of winning. Period.
 

You must log in or register to reply here.



Top Bottom