Obligatory Max Shortell thread. How will he be used going forward?

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cncmin said:
Perhaps you don't realize that Gray was a highly-touted recruit not at wide receiver, but at QUARTERBACK.

Whoever the QB is does NOT lack for decent WRs to throw to this season. Several of the kids showed good ability today, including the return of Brandon Green.
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Where he was recruit is irrelevant.
 

I think it makes since to play Max for now for 1 or 2 series-- at least in the non-conference games. Remember, that was the gameplan for today's game anyways. I think it really gives the offense an entirely new look and should create some confusions for defenses. I think once Big 10 conference play rolls around that Gray settles in at QB.
 

The depth at the QB position would take too much of a hit moving Gray to WR. Why not use them both at QB during the game? This is college football no one (hopefully) is getting paid, it shouldn't matter who "starts". Keep both guys fresh, make teams prepare for both, with several different looks eventually there will be break downs on defense we can exploit with one or the other.
 

Jon said:
I don’t get it; you have an amazing wr in Gray and you want to play him at qb. You have other options for qb and Gray is in no way clearly better than those options. Play the best 11, get Gray out there as a wr and whoever is you next best qb; clearly Shortell after watching him today.

As I posted before Tubby made the mistake of playing Hoffarber at point when he should have given Mav a chance and kept Blake shooting…

Play Gray at Wr because his is a great Wr and play Shortell at qb because then you have two great targets; plus Lair, plus Green…..
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Your points are actually conflicting. Tubby moved Blake to PG to play his 5 best players and it didn't work out. The basketball reference doesn't have anything to do with this Shortell situation and if you wanted to make an analogy, it would probably be the opposite.

However, to your original point. Everyone likes to assume that everything else would have remained as it was if Shortell would have started. So, lets assume that and assume Gray was at WR. What happens when Shortell goes out with cramps...Tom Parish? You don't really expect Gray to take snaps and practice as a WR/QB?

The fact is in football is that you NEED depth. I like having two QBs that can play a bit. Shortell was impressive, i'll even give you that he was slightly more impressive than Gray. However, it is is an extremely limited sample size and it could only be argued that he was marginally more impressive than Gray.

You need to be pragmatic about these kinds of things. If we notice this trend continuing in week 4 or 5, we might have something to talk about. But then you'd still need to address the depth issues. After Shortell has 1 impressive drive and almost identical stats to Gray, lets not get carried away.
 

Go Gophers Rah said:
Lets stop this nonsense.
After Gray's one good drive in junk time versus OSU in 2009 half the people on this board and 2/3 in the student section were convinced that Gray was better than Weber. Now after Shortell goes 7 of 13 for 98 versus Gray's 7 of 12 for 94, Gray is somehow a bad QB.

There is no controversy.

edit: Oh, I forgot. INTS - Shortell-1 Gray-0
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Exactly. Shortell came in hot and played well, really well, but let's not crown him quite yet. Gray is still the No. 1, undisputedly so.

I am pleased to see how Shortell handled himself and in a couple years, I think the Gophers will have another decent quarterback when Gray graduates.
 


Fedora said:
The depth at the QB position would take too much of a hit moving Gray to WR. Why not use them both at QB during the game?
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If they keep taking hits like they did today - Kill will need a stable of quarterbacks. A rotation makes sense with whoever is the hot hand at the moment getting more snaps.
 

I'll join the group that says MarQueis is the undisputed qb at this point for all the reasons that have been stated. It was encouraging to see Max come in and do fairly well (especially so for a true freshman) and it should give him and everyone else some confidence in the event that Q is injured or plays poorly but I wouldn't be close to ready to make that switch.
 

Go Gophers Rah said:
Lets stop this nonsense.
After Gray's one good drive in junk time versus OSU in 2009 half the people on this board and 2/3 in the student section were convinced that Gray was better than Weber. Now after Shortell goes 7 of 13 for 98 versus Gray's 7 of 12 for 94, Gray is somehow a bad QB.

There is no controversy.

edit: Oh, I forgot. INTS - Shortell-1 Gray-0
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I know... This is eerily reminiscent of the Gray/Weber debates the past two years.. OMFG I thought we were done with that tish!!!!
 

Earth to gopher fans....

Outside of the first 2 drives where the whole team played like deer in headlights gray played better than Shortelle. Even including those drives gray had a better completion percentage and fewer turnovers.


Max looked good, and that's good. But keep it in your pants people.
 



Shortell's Future

Agree, Shortell has a great future in the Twin Cities if he doesn't transfer to another program. Probably could be easily converted to a cornerback. The way we move players around to multiple positions on the Gopherhole board, this should be easily accomplished!
 

There should not be a QB controversy...yet. Three points:

1. Marq made his first start as QB in four years and last year was a wide out. Max has been a starter thevlast three years.

2. Gray better fits Kill's offensive game plan with his set of athletic skills.

3. Coaches handicapped Gray in first half with dysfunctional headgear and really BS play calling. All those runs up the middle, including Gray, looked very Brewsteresque. Even the TV announcers commented.
 

Too Long in the Wasteland said:
I agree Gray looked good on several of his throws, particularly in the 2nd half before he got hurt. But it isn't his athleticism that concerns me. He clearly was too slow making decisions and reads on those optionish plays. If the game hasn't slowed down for him in 3 years of college, it never will. No mTter which position you're lining up at.
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This will sort itself out over the next three games. NMS is a patsy, so that game won't count. Miami will be the crucible... they played well against Mizzou.

Gray was slow in his decision-making. If it doesn't improve, Max is the man.
 

This is what Coach Kill does

Gopherphile said:
there's no reason shortell can't take meaningful snaps this year while being the #2. having him take a series or two each game would give opposing d's a lot to gameplan for.
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If you look at what Coach Kill and his staff has done in the past you will find that they loves to mix it up. They do it by playing multiple players in different situations. That is one of the reason why depth is so important to him. Yesterday we had six true freshmen blow their redshirt year. It didn't happen so they could stand around for the rest of the season. They are going to play.
 



My hope is that both play until big ten season then we settle on one approach, either all Gray, or 75%Max / 25%Gray with Max starting and Gray running a set of plays that Max can't.
 

Start Shortell

Bob_Loblaw said:
Your points are actually conflicting. Tubby moved Blake to PG to play his 5 best players and it didn't work out. The basketball reference doesn't have anything to do with this Shortell situation and if you wanted to make an analogy, it would probably be the opposite.

However, to your original point. Everyone likes to assume that everything else would have remained as it was if Shortell would have started. So, lets assume that and assume Gray was at WR. What happens when Shortell goes out with cramps...Tom Parish? You don't really expect Gray to take snaps and practice as a WR/QB?

The fact is in football is that you NEED depth. I like having two QBs that can play a bit. Shortell was impressive, i'll even give you that he was slightly more impressive than Gray. However, it is is an extremely limited sample size and it could only be argued that he was marginally more impressive than Gray.

You need to be pragmatic about these kinds of things. If we notice this trend continuing in week 4 or 5, we might have something to talk about. But then you'd still need to address the depth issues. After Shortell has 1 impressive drive and almost identical stats to Gray, lets not get carried away.
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A few things here; Gray is perhaps our best wide receiver and Hoffarber was our best shooting guard and I think it will work out best if we can play Gray at wide receiver and if Blake had stayed at shooting guard then I think we might have done better in basketball last year.

Assuming Shortell goes down and Gray is excelling as a wide receiver then coach Kill would have to make the call. I have not seen enough of the practices to make a guess there, but if Parish or Alipate could allow Gray to stay at wide receive and perform adequately as qb then I would keep Gray at wide receiver and play the next best qb.

In terms of giving it a few weeks I am guessing that is what Kill will do, but I watched Gray as a qb for a few plays in last years games and from what I have seen from Gray this year I would start Shortell. Watching yesterdays game Gray looked bigger and slower than I remember from last year. I worry a bit about the pounding Gray will take if they keep running him up the middle. Hoffarber was our best point guard but would Mav have been a big drop off from Blake at point? You have to consider playing Hoffarber at point guard cost us our best shooting guard in Hoffarber. I certainly did not see a drop off at qb when Shortell replaced Gray…

I expect to win a number of games irrespective of who is qb…
 

when i saw shortell slinging it yesterday, i was hoping andre mcdonald was watching. another piece of the decision making process for him, imo.
 

Too Long in the Wasteland said:
I agree Gray looked good on several of his throws, particularly in the 2nd half before he got hurt. But it isn't his athleticism that concerns me. He clearly was too slow making decisions and reads on those optionish plays. If the game hasn't slowed down for him in 3 years of college, it never will. No mTter which position you're lining up at.
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3 years of college at WR is very different from 3 years of college at QB
 

Givie Mr. Gray a little more time to settle in as the qb. As he gains a bit...

more comfort in his new position, I think he can bring an element of toughness to this Gopher offense. He will be able to get some tough yards for first downs that will just break the hearts of defenses and will keep the offense on the field, eating up clock and wearing defenses down.

It is hard to tell too much yet, but, I am not seeing enough coming from the traditional running plays to think that the Gophers can achieve anywhere near a balance of more than 60% running plays and a bit less than 40% passing plays that they will need to have a well balanced offense. I am hoping to see the offensive line start gelling to help them to achieve this kind of offense that will be necessary at the end of October and into November. But, Mr. Gray can help make this Gopher Offense a much tougher offense. (Kind of a Joe Kapp...Terry Bradshaw kind of toughness from the qb who can just kill a defense by picking up some first downs just by running over, around and through linebackers and D-Backs.)

Right now, unless a really good running game is developed by our offensive line and the running backs, I kind of fear for the ability of any of our qb's to execute a pass-heavy come from behind effort once we get into the Big Ten season. Against Nebraska, iowa, wisky, MSU and some of the other Big Ten teams you HAVE to be able to run the ball or they are just going to tee-up on your drop-back qb.

So, I liked what our pure freshman qb accomplished...but...I DO like the prospects of having a strong runing and mobile qb who can BRING IT TO defenses and pick up that vital 3rd and 1 or 3rd and 3 late in the third or fourth quarter of a Big Ten Conference Football Game. I especially like having a team of qb's who can bring different looks, strengths and abilities to this Gopher Football Team. And, I like having a coaching staff that likes having a number of qb's who can enhance the ability to game plan and to change things up on the fly if need be.

Mr. Gray can bring a LOT of toughness to this football team! I think that is a very good thing!
 

Gray is tough and seems to be act the part of a leader.Give the kid a little time .He is a special athlete and for this over reaction after three quaters is silly.You wait and see,Gray will see the majority of the snaps at QB because Jerry Kill knows football and a lot of you predictable rubes don't.
 

Blackhammer said:
Gray is tough and seems to be act the part of a leader.Give the kid a little time .He is a special athlete and for this over reaction after three quaters is silly.You wait and see,Gray will see the majority of the snaps at QB because Jerry Kill knows football and a lot of you predictable rubes don't.
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Exactly. Its Gray's job to lose.

Not saying that he will but Q is the type of player Coach Kill covets at the spot. A lot has been put on Gray getting acclimated to the QB spot as well as digesting another new system. The rubes who think its best to puy Gray back at WR are probably pretty good at playing Madden or whatever those video games are called.
 


Bayfieldgopher said:
Exactly. Its Gray's job to lose.

Not saying that he will but Q is the type of player Coach Kill covets at the spot. A lot has been put on Gray getting acclimated to the QB spot as well as digesting another new system. The rubes who think its best to puy Gray back at WR are probably pretty good at playing Madden or whatever those video games are called.
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You simply don't do that to your starting qb after one good quarter of play by the back-up qb. It is too early to even think about it, but.....the logic behind putting Gray back at wr isn't necessarily flawed-just too early.
 

It is too early to pull Gray, but it is never to early to discuss it if the backup plays well. Face facts some of the hits he took were because he had no idea what to do with the ball when pressured. He looked freaked out a lot of the time.

Gray should start the next 3 games no matter how he looks. If he is going to get any rhythm going it will be against the next few opponents. If he continues to struggle though it is not wrong for the coaches to look at switching things up. I love Gray, and I want him to be the starter because with his skill set the offense has more options but that only works if he plays well. Being able to run is worthless if he cant pass at least at an above average clip and make decisions on a dime.

The problem we have is we have 2 QBs that have almost zero experience...one who is a redshirt junior and the other a true frosh. The junior should be way ahead of where he is but was never given an opportunity to play meaningful snaps in any games under the previous regime. (I am not intending this to become an Anti-Brew deal just stating facts) So basically Gray is playing like a frosh and we need more than that.

It is Grays spot to lose, but I am starting to get the feeling that losing it wont be as difficult as we all think it is.
 

Kill doesn't seem to be phased by politics. Should be a good/fun problem to have over the next 2 years
 

Gray is a Junior with a year of WR under his belt. Should keep him at WR since it is what he knows. Shouldn't be learning the QB position as a Junior (less than 2 years left). Shortell arguably was just as good or better as a true Freshman. Why not invest that time and energy at QB that has nearly 4 years left? You also get to bolster the WR corps. Gray can still take some snaps at QB for the wildcat formation, or he could pass in some type of gimmick formation. However Shortell is the better passer and showed he understands the subtleties of the position.
 

After one game Shortell has shown to be the better passer and has better pocket pressence.

The next two or three games will give us and the coaches a better read. I expect Max will get plenty of snaps.

Shortell is a true freshman yet people are making excuses for Gray(a red-shirt jr who has practiced and taken snaps at qb in the BT).

My incredible football knowledge tells me Shortell will be starting long before his jr year.
 

Shortell has played one freaking quarter!Give me a break to annoint him anything is a joke.I like the way he looked but Marques is the qb for as long as he is healthy and Max will get a good amount of playing time.Why that bothers people is beyond me.I guess the backup QB is always the most popular player.And the kneejerk favorite for those who don't know better.lol
 

station19 said:
After one game Shortell has shown to be the better passer and has better pocket pressence.

The next two or three games will give us and the coaches a better read. I expect Max will get plenty of snaps.

Shortell is a true freshman yet people are making excuses for Gray(a red-shirt jr who has practiced and taken snaps at qb in the BT).

My incredible football knowledge tells me Shortell will be starting long before his jr year.
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Kill was on KFAN this morning and didn't name Gray his starter for next week and said that he can't comment until the staff watches film. He even acknowledged that both may have to play. He said that USC was not going to let Gray out of the pocket. Kill also acknowledged that the coaching staff didn't do a very good job for Gray yesterday.

USC knew nothing about Shortell and they had a plan to keep the QB in the pocket which helped Shortell significantly.

I agree that both QB's are going to see snaps in almost every game, but Kill said this morning that he will not disrupt a QB that is in a good rhythm.
 

Care to bet if Grays healthy he starts?I'll bet the farm on that.
 


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