Monson vs. Tubby (record comparison)

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Costa Rican Gopher said:
You could also throw Clem into this conversation as well. Clem's inability to win on the road, his losing B1G record, his lack of player development & continual underachievement all seem to be forgotten (especially by younger fans) these days. Much like Tubby he was a winner at one time, then lost his desire & the program went downhill, getting so bad he had to resort to all out cheating to succeed by the end.
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I'm too young to remember the Clem years, but it would seem his willingness to cheat would not be a sign of lack of desire to win.
 

What All Conference players transferred? Joseph was the best player who transferred and after hearing a story about him at a U Women's Volleyball game, I say good riddance!!! Colten Iverson was going to be a little used backup with little minutes his senior year, no one thought Cobb was any good when he was here...plus he was homesick and wanted to go home, they let the guy who was a football player from Louisiana go to free up a spot for Mbakwe. The Fire Tubby Crowd needs to wait until the end of the year and see what happens, that's my biggest beef. They have over reacted to every loss and the season still is a long way from over. This team could still very easily go to the Sweet 16 and possibly further and some of you are complaining after every loss and calling for Tubby's head. It's called being a piss poor fan and it gets really old. I've been a fan through all of Dutcher's, Clem's, Monson's and Tubby's years, and Tubby has had two bad breaks that hurt his teams the last two years, or else his record would look pretty good in comparison to them. The sky isn't falling, let the season play out. There were 5 teams in the preseason top 25 in the B1G and the Gophers weren't one of them.
 


ethomasp31 said:
What All Conference players transferred? Joseph was the best player who transferred and after hearing a story about him at a U Women's Volleyball game, I say good riddance!!! Colten Iverson was going to be a little used backup with little minutes his senior year, no one thought Cobb was any good when he was here...plus he was homesick and wanted to go home, they let the guy who was a football player from Louisiana go to free up a spot for Mbakwe. The Fire Tubby Crowd needs to wait until the end of the year and see what happens, that's my biggest beef. They have over reacted to every loss and the season still is a long way from over. This team could still very easily go to the Sweet 16 and possibly further and some of you are complaining after every loss and calling for Tubby's head. It's called being a piss poor fan and it gets really old. I've been a fan through all of Dutcher's, Clem's, Monson's and Tubby's years, and Tubby has had two bad breaks that hurt his teams the last two years, or else his record would look pretty good in comparison to them. The sky isn't falling, let the season play out. There were 5 teams in the preseason top 25 in the B1G and the Gophers weren't one of them.
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I do think saying that we have had all-Big Ten quality players transferring is a little out there, but the injuries we've had the past two years have hurt us more than they would have otherwise because the depth behind those injured players transferred. Cobbs and Joseph, Joseph especially, would have seen significant increases in minutes after Nolen got injured (which is just that much harder to take when you think that Devoe Joseph transferred about a week before Nolen was lost for the season), and I bet if even one of Nolen, Cobbs, or Joseph was able to play through the end of the 2010-11 season, we make the tournament that year. Joseph might have had other issues with Tubby other than playing time; he got suspended twice that season before he transferred. Likewise, Colton Iverson would have likely seen a significant increase in playing time after Mbakwe's injury.

The injuries don't hurt as bad without the transfers, the transfers don't hurt as bad without the injuries, it's the fact that they effectively happen simultaneously that really has brought the team down the last two seasons.

Also what is the story about Devoe at the volleyball game? I'm not familiar with it.
 



Cayman said:
I do think saying that we have had all-Big Ten quality players transferring is a little out there, but the injuries we've had the past two years have hurt us more than they would have otherwise because the depth behind those injured players transferred. Cobbs and Joseph, Joseph especially, would have seen significant increases in minutes after Nolen got injured (which is just that much harder to take when you think that Devoe Joseph transferred about a week before Nolen was lost for the season), and I bet if even one of Nolen, Cobbs, or Joseph was able to play through the end of the 2010-11 season, we make the tournament that year. Joseph might have had other issues with Tubby other than playing time; he got suspended twice that season before he transferred. Likewise, Colton Iverson would have likely seen a significant increase in playing time after Mbakwe's injury.

The injuries don't hurt as bad without the transfers, the transfers don't hurt as bad without the injuries, it's the fact that they effectively happen simultaneously that really has brought the team down the last two seasons.


+1 Agreed on the above points. It sure would have been nice to have Iverson to help hold the front court together when Mbakwe went down. Also, folks have always been quick to
dismiss Cobbs, but he always sticks in my mind as a sore spot because he was the only true point guard recruited by Tubby. All of the others that have run the point after Nolen
have been converted shooting guards.
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Cayman said:
I guess I can see that, but I still feel like if he really didn't care, he wouldn't have even bothered to cheat.
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We're really just arguing semantics & honestly I see your point. My real point is that people seem to have this glorified notion of Tubby when the reality was less than pretty. After the 1989 Elite-8 run we won one single tourney game until the 97 Final-4 run that was negated for cheating. This included Arriel McDonald, Voshon Lenard, Randy Carter, Townie Orr, Jayson Walton, et al. No winning road records, an overall losing B1G record (even including the 1997 wins!). It wasn't like we were going to the Final-4 every year & that's where this program historically has been at.
 

You have to exclude Clem's first 2 years, and include his since DELETED years, for his record at Minnesota to look just adequate. But even then, the 89 and 90 seasons didn't include a lot of road wins, in fact there were almost none in 89. After that, the 1991 season through the 1996 season saw what? 1 or 2 trips to the Big Dance, with ZERO tourney wins, and 2 NIT titles, one that was later vacated? Indicates were were nothing more than MIDDLE OF THE PACK in our best years during Clem's entire time here.

Even after 1997, the 1998 and 1999 seasons weren't glorious either, we fell right back into the MIDDLE OF THE PACK.

Clem was criticized for not being able to recruit well, which he should have been able to do with trips to the Sweet 16 and Elite 8 under his belt, right?! And then with a FF tacked on?!

But Tubby's probably had more recruiting success than Clem had, and maybe if Tubby was cheating for his players, all the transfers would have stayed?! MAYBE? Now that I am sure we tell our new bb hires, that under no circumstance will we tolerate any kind of cheating or bad seeds on the team who could bring scandal to our team, that the transfers that are occurring under Tubby's regime might have something to do with Tubby's non-tolerant attitude towards things that would reflect badly on the program?!

What were the academic situations of these transfers? The behavioral situations?


Yes, our depth issues wouldn't have been such issues had those players not transferred, but should we start consulting fortune-tellers to let us know the future first before granting releases to these players requesting transfers to see if any major injuries could occur in the next week after they transfer?! Or should we pay off the cops that the players are getting in trouble with, or should we go back to cheating academically for them to keep them wanting to play for us?!


Both Monson and Tubby seem to have run pretty tight ships, which may be hurting them a bit out on the court?!

Throw in the MULTIPLE injuries we've seemed to have to deal with almost every season, with the increase in the level of our competition in the Big Ten, and we are about right where we were in the late 80s, to early 90s. IN THE MIDDLE OF THE PACK. Which could mean NIT glory in a down year, which we experienced last year, or a Sweet 16 run after losing most of our road games in conf, like we just might experience this year.

Tubby's not the greatest coach, he has flaws, and I think ALL of us see this. But some of us just think its not as simple as simply firing him and replacing him with the 2nd coming Shaka Smart. One thing to consider that so far this season, Shaka Smart seems as much like a false messiah as the 2nd coming. Some good wins, but some BAD losses. VCU is on the bubble RPI rating wise. If they suffer another bad loss, they may have to win their Conf Tourney to get in.

Now that he's playing with HIS OWN PLAYERS and not another coaches, maybe we'll come to find out he's not the greatest coach either. Just hope we don't find out only after hiring him.


Another thing to consider is that as many flaws as Tubby has, he has us where we've rarely or never been before.

3 Trips to the Tournament in 6 years would be the BEST EVER for any coach in Gopher bb history that didn't have to cheat at least.

And could a #13 RPI rating not also be our BEST EVER? For a coach that didn't cheat that is?!


Just imagine how we'd have done the last few years if only half of the injuries that we suffered through hadn't taken place?!
 

#1nHkyCfbBsbDncSolarDebat said:
You have to exclude Clem's first 2 years, and include his since DELETED years, for his record at Minnesota to look just adequate. But even then, the 89 and 90 seasons didn't include a lot of road wins, in fact there were almost none in 89. After that, the 1991 season through the 1996 season saw what? 1 or 2 trips to the Big Dance, with ZERO tourney wins, and 2 NIT titles, one that was later vacated? Indicates were were nothing more than MIDDLE OF THE PACK in our best years during Clem's entire time here.

Even after 1997, the 1998 and 1999 seasons weren't glorious either, we fell right back into the MIDDLE OF THE PACK.

Clem was criticized for not being able to recruit well, which he should have been able to do with trips to the Sweet 16 and Elite 8 under his belt, right?! And then with a FF tacked on?!

But Tubby's probably had more recruiting success than Clem had, and maybe if Tubby was cheating for his players, all the transfers would have stayed?! MAYBE? Now that I am sure we tell our new bb hires, that under no circumstance will we tolerate any kind of cheating or bad seeds on the team who could bring scandal to our team, that the transfers that are occurring under Tubby's regime might have something to do with Tubby's non-tolerant attitude towards things that would reflect badly on the program?!

What were the academic situations of these transfers? The behavioral situations?

Yes, our depth issues wouldn't have been such issues had those players not transferred, but should we start consulting fortune-tellers to let us know the future first before granting releases to these players requesting transfers to see if any major injuries could occur in the next week after they transfer?! Or should we pay off the cops that the players are getting in trouble with, or should we go back to cheating academically for them to keep them wanting to play for us?!

Both Monson and Tubby seem to have run pretty tight ships, which may be hurting them a bit out on the court?!

Throw in the MULTIPLE injuries we've seemed to have to deal with almost every season, with the increase in the level of our competition in the Big Ten, and we are about right where we were in the late 80s, to early 90s. IN THE MIDDLE OF THE PACK. Which could mean NIT glory in a down year, which we experienced last year, or a Sweet 16 run after losing most of our road games in conf, like we just might experience this year.

Tubby's not the greatest coach, he has flaws, and I think ALL of us see this. But some of us just think its not as simple as simply firing him and replacing him with the 2nd coming Shaka Smart. One thing to consider that so far this season, Shaka Smart seems as much like a false messiah as the 2nd coming. Some good wins, but some BAD losses. VCU is on the bubble RPI rating wise. If they suffer another bad loss, they may have to win their Conf Tourney to get in.

Now that he's playing with HIS OWN PLAYERS and not another coaches, maybe we'll come to find out he's not the greatest coach either. Just hope we don't find out only after hiring him.

Another thing to consider is that as many flaws as Tubby has, he has us where we've rarely or never been before.

3 Trips to the Tournament in 6 years would be the BEST EVER for any coach in Gopher bb history that didn't have to cheat at least.

And could a #13 RPI rating not also be our BEST EVER? For a coach that didn't cheat that is?!

Just imagine how we'd have done the last few years if only half of the injuries that we suffered through hadn't taken place?!
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The length of your posts


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Cobbs should be a 2nd or 3rd team all pac 12 this year. 15pts/game, 4.5 ass a game. 2012 Devoe was on coaches 2nd team. Royce is a head case but he was still first team all big 12. In 2013 Colten is leading the team in scoring 13.6 pts, 9.6 reb a game for #22 CSU. Yes i know the big ten is tough this year but having seen both CSU and the gophers play live, CSU is better. He will make at least 2nd team all conference. So these are the 4 players over the last couple of years who have or will make all-conference teams who transferred from Minnesota. NEXT. While at a CSU game, the die hard fan I was sitting next to, couldnt get over that Iverson transferred and was somewhat "unwanted". I had to explain all 4 transfers for him. Oh and don't get my wrong if Iverson didn't transfer he would get his 5pts, 5 reb in Tubby's system. CSU doesnt run that system.
 

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