Missed Opportunties-NDSU v. U of M

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I have watched Tusler many times and totally agree he is a great athlete, but I don't feel like he is quite at the level the Gophers and Kill are looking for. Please don't get me wrong, I enjoyed watching him play in high school and believe he will help someone in their program, but don't believe he is a BIG 10 style player. I would love to have him as a Gopher, but don't think he is worth eating up a scholarship for by taking a chance on his development. I truly wish he was a 4.5 kid that was a couple inches taller, then it would be a no brainer.
 

EliteHSscout said:
I have watched Tusler many times and totally agree he is a great athlete, but I don't feel like he is quite at the level the Gophers and Kill are looking for. Please don't get me wrong, I enjoyed watching him play in high school and believe he will help someone in their program, but don't believe he is a BIG 10 style player. I would love to have him as a Gopher, but don't think he is worth eating up a scholarship for by taking a chance on his development. I truly wish he was a 4.5 kid that was a couple inches taller, then it would be a no brainer.
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This is the exact tricky part the coaches are in and have been in many times before. We loved Cole Jirik too. He is an absolute stud at NDSU. Coming out of high school he was a TE/DE. We had commitments from Rashede Hageman (#11 TE in the country) and Matt Garin (DE who played in Under Armour All-American game), there just may not have been enough scholarships to go around.

There is a chance Tusler goes to NDSU and becomes a great player and then people say we missed out on him, but a the same time he is a fringe scholarship player with noticeable question marks. I've never seen Tusler play, but it seems par for the course based on your assessment. He is a good player, but maybe not a Big 10 player. NDSU will eat up the "too small" and "not fast enough" statements and try to shove them down our face when they are making another run, but with a limited amount of scholarships we just can't offer them to every good player who comes through the state.
 

Who knows. If Coach Kill was around then, Jirik may have been a Gopher. Same with some other MN/NDSU studs.

I don't see Tusler being a Gopher mainly based on need and the number of available scholarships. And I expect the Gophers to push hard for the Washburn RB (Jones?) in 14.
 


Yeah I think it's partly bad timing for Tusler. However I'm also not sold on him being able to become an above average big10 rb. You'd think some MAC teams would be in on him if he had that potential.
 

MNfootballfan said:
This is the exact tricky part the coaches are in and have been in many times before. We loved Cole Jirik too. He is an absolute stud at NDSU. Coming out of high school he was a TE/DE. We had commitments from Rashede Hageman (#11 TE in the country) and Matt Garin (DE who played in Under Armour All-American game), there just may not have been enough scholarships to go around.

There is a chance Tusler goes to NDSU and becomes a great player and then people say we missed out on him, but a the same time he is a fringe scholarship player with noticeable question marks. I've never seen Tusler play, but it seems par for the course based on your assessment. He is a good player, but maybe not a Big 10 player. NDSU will eat up the "too small" and "not fast enough" statements and try to shove them down our face when they are making another run, but with a limited amount of scholarships we just can't offer them to every good player who comes through the state.
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Anyone of our dlinemen playing at ndsu would look like world beaters IMO. Jirik is a nice player but would he look as good with a big ten schedule? Doubt it! The fact is these guys didn't get offers from the U, or wisky, or iowA. It is NOT a miss if a kid goes to ndsu with zero offers from fbs schools. I would argue that our roster has multiple fcs all Americans if given the opportunity to play against that level of competition for an entire season
 

lakesgopher said:
Anyone of our dlinemen playing at ndsu would look like world beaters IMO. Jirik is a nice player but would he look as good with a big ten schedule? Doubt it! The fact is these guys didn't get offers from the U, or wisky, or iowA. It is NOT a miss if a kid goes to ndsu with zero offers from fbs schools. I would argue that our roster has multiple fcs all Americans if given the opportunity to play against that level of competition for an entire season
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I agree with everything you said. Jirik wouldn't be the same player he is at NDSU, but I think he would be in our DL rotation for sure. It can be considered a miss though if a player you are recruiting turns out to be a very good player who could start for you.
I'm not so sure that Jirik or Billy Turner (LT) would start for us. Marcus Williams would possibly qualify as a "miss" but by everything I read on here is that he never had the grades to get into the U so it is a moot point. I do think Williams is a better player than Stoudemire, but what do I know, 6 months ago I thought Stoudemire would be one of the best players on the team and Michael Carter would be riding the bench.
 

lakesgopher said:
Anyone of our dlinemen playing at ndsu would look like world beaters IMO. Jirik is a nice player but would he look as good with a big ten schedule? Doubt it! The fact is these guys didn't get offers from the U, or wisky, or iowA. It is NOT a miss if a kid goes to ndsu with zero offers from fbs schools. I would argue that our roster has multiple fcs all Americans if given the opportunity to play against that level of competition for an entire season
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So you are saying that any of the gophers linemen would look like world beaters at NDSU...like Jirik does. And you doubt that Jirik would look as good at the big ten level.....(neither to the current gopher linemen)?

In essence you are saying that they have the same ability. Which is my point, why go out of state to recruit when you have players here who are as good or better?
 



I think the most difficult thing about recruiting is envisioning in one's mind's eye as to what a high school player will look like after a couple of years in the weight room and on the practice field. As I recall, Jirik was a 210-pound DE when he graduated and most recruiters probably saw him as a "tweener:" Not big enough to play DE at the FBS level and probably a step slow to play OLB.

If Kill had been coach, I have no doubt that Jirik would have been a Gopher. After all, he did have an offer from Western Michigan.
 

We get just as many busts in state as out of state, Brewster had pretty bad luck with instate players. Maresh, Grant, Nance, Salamon, Alipate, Garin, Rengel, Edwards (so far), Gjere. Hageman and Ed Olson are about the only ones that really produced.
 

50PoundHead said:
I think the most difficult thing about recruiting is envisioning in one's mind's eye as to what a high school player will look like after a couple of years in the weight room and on the practice field. As I recall, Jirik was a 210-pound DE when he graduated and most recruiters probably saw him as a "tweener:" Not big enough to play DE at the FBS level and probably a step slow to play OLB.

If Kill had been coach, I have no doubt that Jirik would have been a Gopher. After all, he did have an offer from Western Michigan.
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I can't believe kids turn down mac offers to play at NDSU. Just seems odd to me.
 

Lol I'm saying we have one guy on the dline that is nfl material, I'm saying our average dline would look like world beaters at the fcs level. If we ha dominate dlinemen then the way you attempted to twist it would maybe make some sense
 



btowngopher said:
I can't believe kids turn down mac offers to play at NDSU. Just seems odd to me.
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Recruits make their decisions based on many aspect, football is only 1 of those aspects. Does the school offer the degree they are seeking? Does he like the coaching staff, including his position coach. How likely will it be to get playing time by soph. year. Will his family be able to see him play without creating a financial burden. I know most fans don't think of those things, but these kids are forced to make decisions based on may aspects that your everyday college student doesn't have to make.
 

btowngopher said:
I can't believe kids turn down mac offers to play at NDSU. Just seems odd to me.
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Ever been to game day at NDSU? Its pretty darn sweet. Never been to a MAC school on gameday but playing at the rocking Fargo Dome infront of a capacity crowd is probably more of a sell compared to a half full stadium in Akron Ohio or wherever.
 

RochesterGopher said:
Ever been to game day at NDSU? Its pretty darn sweet. Never been to a MAC school on gameday but playing at the rocking Fargo Dome infront of a capacity crowd is probably more of a sell compared to a half full stadium in Akron Ohio or wherever.
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I have not, but I can't imagine it's anything compared to Neyland Stadium. Akron got to play there this past year. Looks like NDSU had a record attendance this year, about 18,000, average mac attendance is about 15,000. So NDSU does draw better crowds then some MAC schools. I dunno, I just figured it would be hard to pass up a FBS offer for a FCS one.
 

btowngopher said:
I have not, but I can't imagine it's anything compared to Neyland Stadium. Akron got to play there this past year. Looks like NDSU had a record attendance this year, about 18,000, average mac attendance is about 15,000. So NDSU does draw better crowds then some MAC schools. I dunno, I just figured it would be hard to pass up a FBS offer for a FCS one.
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There attendance is better than the MAC average and I feel it is important to note that it is 18,000 in a 18,000 seat stadium compared the the average 15,000 in a larger stadium. If you are into checking out other football venues, NDSU is worth the 4 hour drive. I am not comparing it to places around the country, just in a range you could drive to it is a pretty good time.
 

lakesgopher said:
Lol I'm saying we have one guy on the dline that is nfl material, I'm saying our average dline would look like world beaters at the fcs level. If we ha dominate dlinemen then the way you attempted to twist it would maybe make some sense
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Well I had to give it a shot (lol).
 

This has been a fun discussion for me to follow, especially since I am both a Bison and a Gopher football fan. A couple of comments.

NDSU regularly gets guys who have offers from MAC schools, it has been a common phenomenon for the past five recruiting years. Occasionally they get guys who, according to Rivals, had BCS offers such as Juckem did from Boston College or Nick Jacobsen who just verballed from WI who has an offer from Pitt. But those are rare. I don't think there is any MN player on the Bison roster who would be there if the Gophers had offered, however.

Regarding MN players that the Gophers may be missing on this year, I am not sure there will be any. NDSU is recruiting MN quite lightly this year. NDSU only loses 8 seniors and they have 12 scholarship verbals and another 3 PWO verbals. Of those only two are from MN while 5 are from WI. They appear to be hitting WI much harder this year than in years past.

I do believe, however, that MN missed on Zach Johnson last year from Apple Valley. He didn't start as a true Fr this year but he played a lot on the OL and he is a beast. Carey Woods looks good in practice and he may make that list next year and everyone I know is really high on Brett Pierce from Bloomington. As a DT he wrecked havoc on the Bison OL playing on the scout team this year. So, I will throw those three names out there. Not saying scholarship worthy but as a PWO my guess is they would have been solid contributors in years to come for the Gophers.
 

Bison fans = Wanna be

Play one BIG Ten season schedule and this would all be put to rest.
 

This discussion would be interesting if it was based upon the discussion of "NDSU has a good program and have a lot of talented players", the problem is that the discussion (especially from Bison fans) becomes an attack on the Gophers for not offering these kids. It's not that they couldn't play NOW, it's that you can't blame the U for not offering these kids (at the time).
Marcus Williams ----he would help us, but he had question marks. I don't blame any coach for passing with question marks.

Zack Johnson - It's a matter of fit. It probably came down to Zack or Leuer. I think Leuer is more of the Kill style of OL. Zack Johnson is a really large man (6'4" 330 lbs) as a true freshmen. He isn't super athletic, but he's a good football player. Leuer makes more sense for the Gophers style, he's 6'7" 275 lbs......I'd prefer Leuer for our system but I thought they were similar talents in HS (I think Leuer has a much higher ceiling).

Littlejohn - We had to hope that he could gain 35 lbs min and still be effective. He has, so all the credit to him, but that's a big IF for a Big 10 program.

Woods - He didn't go camping. We aren't going to offer a kid who doesn't play a really high level of football if they don't go to camp.

Turner - It's been discussed.

Jirik - It came down to Jirik or Garin. WE got the wrong one, however, at the time, every coach in the country would have preferred Garin.
 

I have the perfect solution. Allow those who transfer from FCS to FBS to do so without sitting out a year. Each year the Gophers can exchange their washouts for the NDSU hidden gems.
 

btowngopher said:
So is anyone going to point out a MN kid we are missing on this year?
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Always a tough question when it comes to recruiting Minnesota as pointed out by the number of busts.

I would have to say Lakeville North OL Zach Ziemer (6'5 280) is the first, but the U is loaded with lineman hence more timing than anything else. Chad Fahning (6'7 280) from De who has mutliple offers and Jackson Wilson (6'3 275) from John Marshall committed to Air Force.

Interesting the U never showed much interest in Eden Prairie LB Jack Cotrell (6'4 225) headed to Boston College and DT Tyson Reinke (6'3 265) to Kent State ranked #25 in the country.

Tusler picked up an offer from Army recently and is definitely an interesting Athlete as I think he was as good on defense on offense, plus a special teams returner.

Washburn DE/TE Noah Scarver (6'5 235) and DeLaSalle Jaried Combs (6'4 250) both have had good seasons as two-way players. I think Jake Wieneke (6'4 200) from Maple Grove is a solid player as well.

We shall be able to better answer this question in 3 years!
 

vames said:
Always a tough question when it comes to recruiting Minnesota as pointed out by the number of busts.

I would have to say Lakeville North OL Zach Ziemer (6'5 280) is the first, but the U is loaded with lineman hence more timing than anything else. Chad Fahning (6'7 280) from De who has mutliple offers and Jackson Wilson (6'3 275) from John Marshall committed to Air Force.

Interesting the U never showed much interest in Eden Prairie LB Jack Cotrell (6'4 225) headed to Boston College and DT Tyson Reinke (6'3 265) to Kent State ranked #25 in the country.

Tusler picked up an offer from Army recently and is definitely an interesting Athlete as I think he was as good on defense on offense, plus a special teams returner.

Washburn DE/TE Noah Scarver (6'5 235) and DeLaSalle Jaried Combs (6'4 250) both have had good seasons as two-way players. I think Jake Wieneke (6'4 200) from Maple Grove is a solid player as well.

We shall be able to better answer this question in 3 years!
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I'm kind of a fan of Reinke, maybe a bit undersized to be an every down dt at this point, but he will probably put on some weight. He seems pretty explosive.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
This discussion would be interesting if it was based upon the discussion of "NDSU has a good program and have a lot of talented players", the problem is that the discussion (especially from Bison fans) becomes an attack on the Gophers for not offering these kids. It's not that they couldn't play NOW, it's that you can't blame the U for not offering these kids (at the time).
Marcus Williams ----he would help us, but he had question marks. I don't blame any coach for passing with question marks.

Zack Johnson - It's a matter of fit. It probably came down to Zack or Leuer. I think Leuer is more of the Kill style of OL. Zack Johnson is a really large man (6'4" 330 lbs) as a true freshmen. He isn't super athletic, but he's a good football player. Leuer makes more sense for the Gophers style, he's 6'7" 275 lbs......I'd prefer Leuer for our system but I thought they were similar talents in HS (I think Leuer has a much higher ceiling).

Littlejohn - We had to hope that he could gain 35 lbs min and still be effective. He
has, so all the credit to him, but that's a big IF for a Big 10 program.

Woods - He didn't go camping. We aren't going to offer a kid who doesn't play a
really high level of football if they don't go to camp.

Turner - It's been discussed.

Jirik - It came down to Jirik or Garin. WE got the wrong one, however, at the time,
every coach in the country would have preferred Garin.
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If I weren't watching NFL playoff...nice TD catch by Tony G..... I would identify an out state players that matched everything u just said from Wilhite putting on weight to signees that never attended camp or matched Kills style (Shortel) The point is coaches get paid to identify players and gopher coaches have missed badly on in state talent in their own back yard. This is especially bad when you take in to account in state players cost less to recruit and or easier to evaluate because they can be seen playing in person more readily...assuming a coach has the desire to do so.
 

To add to the discussion, some interesting points in the story below about how prepared kids are from the hotbed states. I don't think it refutes Sportsfans point about how many schools did that Florida kid have to fly over to get to Minnesota. But interesting nonetheless. Have to wonder if Ekpe is an example of being more prepared.

http://m.espn.go.com/wireless/story?storyId=8840845
 

Sportsfan24 said:
If I weren't watching NFL playoff...nice TD catch by Tony G..... I would identify an out state players that matched everything u just said from Wilhite putting on weight to signees that never attended camp or matched Kills style (Shortel) The point is coaches get paid to identify players and gopher coaches have missed badly on in state talent in their own back yard. This is especially bad when you take in to account in state players cost less to recruit and or easier to evaluate because they can be seen playing in person more readily...assuming a coach has the desire to do so.
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I agree, but there have been dominant FCS programs throughout the history of college football. Coaches will miss on guys who can play, if the U is getting slammed for not offering these guys the MAC coaches should be getting absolutely destroyed.

I can't think of any out of state players who needed to put on 35 lbs to be effective. I can think of some who did and then switched positions (S bulks up to play LB), but I don't think Littlejohn had ANY chance of playing S in the Big 10.

As far as not going camping, I'd like to see a kid from out of state who played against as soft of competition as Woods and still got an offer without camping...anywhere.

Zack Johnson....it's fit. You'd have to find a lineman from outstate recruited by Kill who is more similar to Johnson's fram than Leuer's....you won't be able to.
 


Bob_Loblaw said:
I agree, but there have been dominant FCS programs throughout the history of college football. Coaches will miss on guys who can play, if the U is getting slammed for not offering these guys the MAC coaches should be getting absolutely destroyed.

I can't think of any out of state players who needed to put on 35 lbs to be effective. I can think of some who did and then switched positions (S bulks up to play LB), but I don't think Littlejohn had ANY chance of playing S in the Big 10.

As far as not going camping, I'd like to see a kid from out of state who played against as soft of competition as Woods and still got an offer without camping...anywhere.

Zack Johnson....it's fit. You'd have to find a lineman from outstate recruited by Kill who is more similar to Johnson's fram than Leuer's....you won't be able to.
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Good points.

This is where I have to bow out or risk getting folks angry at me for being critical of gopher players (I really don't care about "folks" but my boss/wife does). I could get very specific but alas.....I like sleeping in my bed versus the couch.

Anyway it's really a moot point going forward because I believe J. Kill will cover all bases in recruiting in state kids. He likes what he likes and doesn't appear to get caught in what other folks think about a player.
 

Sumtimegophs said:
This has been a fun discussion for me to follow, especially since I am both a Bison and a Gopher football fan. A couple of comments.

NDSU regularly gets guys who have offers from MAC schools, it has been a common phenomenon for the past five recruiting years. Occasionally they get guys who, according to Rivals, had BCS offers such as Juckem did from Boston College or Nick Jacobsen who just verballed from WI who has an offer from Pitt. But those are rare. I don't think there is any MN player on the Bison roster who would be there if the Gophers had offered, however.

Regarding MN players that the Gophers may be missing on this year, I am not sure there will be any. NDSU is recruiting MN quite lightly this year. NDSU only loses 8 seniors and they have 12 scholarship verbals and another 3 PWO verbals. Of those only two are from MN while 5 are from WI. They appear to be hitting WI much harder this year than in years past.

I do believe, however, that MN missed on Zach Johnson last year from Apple Valley. He didn't start as a true Fr this year but he played a lot on the OL and he is a beast. Carey Woods looks good in practice and he may make that list next year and everyone I know is really high on Brett Pierce from Bloomington. As a DT he wrecked havoc on the Bison OL playing on the scout team this year. So, I will throw those three names out there. Not saying scholarship worthy but as a PWO my guess is they would have been solid contributors in years to come for the Gophers.
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If I recall, all three of those kids were offered PWO by Kill.
I've seen Johnson in person, he's a huge human. However, I can easily see why Kill took Leuer over him, Leuer looks like a giant TE, long limbs, and alot of weight potential, Johnson to me looked maxed out framewise in HS, and lacked athleticism.
Not to say he can't beat the snot out of a guy in front of him, but he may struggle to pull/trap/track a LB downfield. He reminded me of Bunders a bit.
Woods looked great in the HS playoffs, but I've got to wonder how the injury to the Mankato WR/DB speedster affected that matchup. Woods simply was faster than everyone else. Again, as a PWO he could have contributed, but if it's between Murray who camped here and impressed the coaches in person and Woods who didn't, you can't find fault in that.
Pierce was recruited as a TE here and would have probably taken the path of Ernie Heifort had he committed as a PWO.
 

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