Missed Opportunties-NDSU v. U of M

Donate To GopherHole
Sportsfan24 said:
You my friend are flat out wrong. There are kids on this roster (and past rosters under other coaches) that are complete garbage as football players. There are starters on the gopher roster that would not see any playing time at NDSU. The gophers are deeper (mediocre talent) but if you compare talent amongst the starters, I would give the nod to the gophers, but its closer than it should be.

FYI: Marcus Williams would most definitely have started for the gophers, him and Carter would have made a nice tandem.
Click to expand...

Tell me what additional game we would have won this year with the NDSU superstars? Marcus Williams, the best D-2 corner in the the last 10 years, would have been the 3rd best corner on our team.
 

An easy, albeit smart ass, answer to another win is to say that even if we just took Vraa and none of the other five or six kids who would have been upgrades for us this year, he would have went up and very likely gotten the ball that got picked at the end of the TT game. Boo and hiss all you want, but he has an infinitely better chance of making that play than any receiver we had on the field at the time or for much of this year.
 

Indi1006 said:
An easy, albeit smart ass, answer to another win is to say that even if we just took Vraa and none of the other five or six kids who would have been upgrades for us this year, he would have went up and very likely gotten the ball that got picked at the end of the TT game. Boo and hiss all you want, but he has an infinitely better chance of making that play than any receiver we had on the field at the time or for much of this year.
Click to expand...

If only we just offered all the ndsu players that turned out to be pretty good...then Alabama would be sitting at home tonight watching the big ten champion gophers take on notre dame for the national title! What a difference vraa would have made
 

Williams was said to not be able to get in to the U and was considered short by Brew

Didn't both Littlejohn and Marcus Williams have academic questions coming out of high school.
I thought both had initial interest from the Gophers but do to academic issues there recruitment tailed off. I specifially remember Williams as the guy that a lot of people said would not get passed admissions at the U. Could be that Brewster was to busy chasing stars on these guy's also but I remember Williams was thought to be a little small by the Brewster staff during those recruiting chats on GI.
 

Indi1006 said:
An easy, albeit smart ass, answer to another win is to say that even if we just took Vraa and none of the other five or six kids who would have been upgrades for us this year, he would have went up and very likely gotten the ball that got picked at the end of the TT game. Boo and hiss all you want, but he has an infinitely better chance of making that play than any receiver we had on the field at the time or for much of this year.
Click to expand...

So the guy who had 1 catch for 30 yards against Sam Houston State would have been better for us than the guy who had 4 receptions for 108 yards against Texas Tech? Gotcha!
 


gopherdudepart2 said:
Didn't both Littlejohn and Marcus Williams have academic questions coming out of high school.
I thought both had initial interest from the Gophers but do to academic issues there recruitment tailed off. I specifially remember Williams as the guy that a lot of people said would not get passed admissions at the U. Could be that Brewster was to busy chasing stars on these guy's also but I remember Williams was thought to be a little small by the Brewster staff during those recruiting chats on GI.
Click to expand...

I don't think Littlejohn had any academic issues, I think his issue was one of size. He's still really small to be playing linebacker in the Big 10 and he was about 180 lbs coming out of HS (wrestled at 170).
 

John Galt said:
Tell me what additional game we would have won this year with the NDSU superstars? Marcus Williams, the best D-2 corner in the the last 10 years, would have been the 3rd best corner on our team.
Click to expand...

He would have been 2nd at worst, there is not that much difference between him and Carter. Game? I ain't that smart.
 

Would you rather have the kids that don't get offered and shine at NDSU, or would you want the kids that go to other major programs and are never heard from like James Farrow, Willie Mobley, etc.? P.S. some sites have Marcus Williams rated as the #11 cb in this draft.
 

Guys like Williams are good examples of "damned if you do, damned if you don't."

He goes to another school, gets his academics in order, and becomes a star. It's the coach's fault for not offering him.

He gets a scholarship at the U, ends up academically ineligible, and it's the coach's fault for offering scholarships to a player who was an academic risk.

That actually may not even be a good example as many believe he didn't have the grades to get into the U even if he was offered.
 



btowngopher said:
Would you rather have the kids that don't get offered and shine at NDSU, or would you want the kids that go to other major programs and are never heard from like James Farrow, Willie Mobley, etc.? P.S. some sites have Marcus Williams rated as the #11 cb in this draft.
Click to expand...

At the time, everyone in America would have taken Farrow or Mobley over Williams. Farrow and Mobley both had great offer lists. No one offered Williams. Sam Bowie was drafted ahead of Michael Jordan, and hindsight is 20/20. Name one other DB from NDSU we should have offered?
 

GophersInIowa said:
Guys like Williams are good examples of "damned if you do, damned if you don't."

He goes to another school, gets his academics in order, and becomes a star. It's the coach's fault for not offering him.

He gets a scholarship at the U, ends up academically ineligible, and it's the coach's fault for offering scholarships to a player who was an academic risk.

That actually may not even be a good example as many believe he didn't have the grades to get into the U even if he was offered.
Click to expand...

+1. That is exactly what I was trying to say in my post as well.
 

goldenman said:
We would probably have the worst recruiting class in the history of the program if we recruited these guys out of high school. Most people are skeptical now about how are recruiting is now and now your saying that we should of recruited zero - 2 star recruits? Minnesota doesn't produce a lot of top notch talent for division I schools but it produces a lot of talent for all of the other divisions. Look at the MIAC and the NSIC conferences, and there some of the best football conferences for division III and II. It's too bad but that's just the way it is.

I'm happy with coach Kill and there are reasons why he is coaching here rather than Bohl.

Trust the Process
Click to expand...

Holy Homophones!
 

Sportsfan24 said:
You my friend are flat out wrong. There are kids on this roster (and past rosters under other coaches) that are complete garbage as football players.
Click to expand...

Wow. I'm speechless. All of these "garbage" football players have parents and grandparents. 24, when your son has been criticized on this board, you have defended him vigorously. And now you have the gall to come on here and call players "garbage?" I have tried to give you the benefit of the doubt, but the more you post on here, the more I have to wonder about your motivations.

I am dead serious about this - your comment is one of the worst things I have ever read on Gopher Hole. If I could trade you for Wren right now, I'd do it in a heartbeat. You have got a real problem - I don't know what it is, and I don't want to know.
 



MODERATOR: please lock this stupid, pointless, trollish, flamish thread already. yet another in the long history of stupid, pointless, trollish, flamish south dakota state fighting bizzun threads.

my God, why can't you just keep control of these south dakota state biting fizzun threads on the board and lock them right away before they turn into this usual junk?

do your job please!
 

short ornery norwegian said:
Wow. I'm speechless. All of these "garbage" football players have parents and grandparents. 24, when your son has been criticized on this board, you have defended him vigorously. And now you have the gall to come on here and call players "garbage?" I have tried to give you the benefit of the doubt, but the more you post on here, the more I have to wonder about your motivations.

I am dead serious about this - your comment is one of the worst things I have ever read on
Gopher Hole. If I could trade you for Wren right now, I'd do it in a heartbeat. You have got a
real problem - I don't know what it is, and I don't want to know.
Click to expand...

My man, I truly could not care less what you think about me. Be it my son or someone else's, if they suck....they suck. Keep in mind I have the gonads to say whatever I say with full disclosure of who I am. I get so tired of creeps such as yourself who hide behind your monicker and monitors questioning my intentions. The colossal difference between me and 99.9 percent of this board is if I say something about anyone on this team or staff, I'm just a phone call away....and they have my number.

I'm sure it makes you feel all gooey and warm inside when I talk about kids who I believe are good players, which I do most of the time and always honestly. However, there is a yen to the yang. And the yang is that there are some kids from out of state who suck to epic proportions when compared to instate kids who don't get offers. Don't get mad at me get mad at the people who recruited their sorry asses and let instate talent go elsewhere.

I have had these kids and their families in my home do you think you are hearing something they have never heard from me? And you know what? Mr. Royston's phone still rings when mom or dad need a nearby foot inserted in one of their arse or they need a word of encouragement, so maybe, just maybe, YOU shouldn't have an issue with it.
 

Sportsfan24 said:
Kill as the gopher coach is going to hurt NDSU and the other Dakota schools because he will not miss out on has many players as his predeccesors. He has spent his career recruiting this type of talent and competing with or beating schools like Minnesota that didn't. The best gopher football players on average have been Mn kids. We can win with Mn kids (not saying all), it's the non playing stiffs (yes I'm being harsh) from out of state that has been the reasons why this program can't get over the top.

The first coach that duplicates Wisconsin and figures out a way to get the top 15-20 football players out of Mn every year will have the next stadium named after him.
Click to expand...

That isn't the way Wisconsin does it. Last year Kill signed 10 instate players. The most in state players wisconsin has signed since 2002 was 10. There aren't 15-20 kids in MN every year that can play for a winning big10 football team. Even if you could somehow identify the best 15-20 kids and avoid the busts, find the gems, and get them to commit. They wouldn't be good enough to win in the big10.
 

btowngopher said:
That isn't the way Wisconsin does it. Last year Kill signed 10 instate players. The most in state players wisconsin has signed since 2002 was 10. There aren't 15-20 kids in MN every year that can play for a winning big10 football team. Even if you could somehow identify the best 15-20 kids and avoid the busts, find the gems, and get them to commit. They wouldn't be good enough to win in the big10.
Click to expand...

Great points.

I agree with you on Kills approach to recruitment. That's why I said in an earlier post that coach Kill will have a negative affect on the Dakota teams. He has a very specific knowledge, understanding and appreciation of the football players in this state and surrounding states. Coach Kill isn't the issue on this topic, his predecessors were. Coach Kill like his contemporaries at
NDSU, UND, SDSU, Northern Iowa and Northern IL heavily recruit this area.

My opinion about recruiting Mn players is of course hard to identify players. However if the fail
rate is higher with out of state players (which it is) and we are missing hidden gems from Mn
(which we are) why not recruit more from Mn? If treated like a business case and a SWOT
analysis was performed and a business plan was established from it, I'm certain the result would
be to spend more money and effort on recruitment in state and less out of state.

If you are sticking your hand into a barrel of of rice with the hope of grabbing some gems why
not stick your hand in the barrel with the most gems? Other states may have more D1 players
than MN. The truth is they don't. Texas may have 345 D1 recruits...so what, most of them would
never consider the Gophers and the ones that would, year in year out aren't better than what's
here. Mn may produce only 10 but the top 10 in Mn is better than the bottom 10 in any state in
the country that produces 50 plus D1 recruits annually. My point is Mn may start with less gem/D1 recruits but by the time the coach gets to stick his hand in the barrel somewhere else, there are less gems/d1 in those barrels and more in MN.

I have been around high school and college sports for 35 years. The answer to fixing the gophers can be found in state on the cheap.
 

Sportsfan24 said:
Great points.

I agree with you on Kills approach to recruitment. That's why I said in an earlier post that coach Kill will have a negative affect on the Dakota teams. He has a very specific knowledge, understanding and appreciation of the football players in this state and surrounding states. Coach Kill isn't the issue on this topic, his predecessors were. Coach Kill like his contemporaries at
NDSU, UND, SDSU, Northern Iowa and Northern IL heavily recruit this area.

My opinion about recruiting Mn players is of course hard to identify players. However if the fail
rate is higher with out of state players (which it is) and we are missing hidden gems from Mn
(which we are) why not recruit more from Mn? If treated like a business case and a SWOT
analysis was performed and a business plan was established from it, I'm certain the result would
be to spend more money and effort on recruitment in state and less out of state.

If you are sticking your hand into a barrel of of rice with the hope of grabbing some gems why
not stick your hand in the barrel with the most gems? Other states may have more D1 players
than MN. The truth is they don't. Texas may have 345 D1 recruits...so what, most of them would
never consider the Gophers and the ones that would, year in year out aren't better than what's
here. Mn may produce only 10 but the top 10 in Mn is better than the bottom 10 in any state in
the country that produces 50 plus D1 recruits annually. My point is Mn may start with less gem/D1 recruits but by the time the coach gets to stick his hand in the barrel somewhere else, there are less gems/d1 in those barrels and more in MN.

I have been around high school and college sports for 35 years. The answer to fixing the gophers can be found in state on the cheap.
Click to expand...

Couldn't agree more. Reminded me of a Mase interview, comparing players from Southern states to Minnesota. He basically said they play all year round and are pretty much fully developed (football wise) in the South by the time they're recruited and that players from Minnesota usually have much more upside because they haven't reached their full potential yet. Made sense to me.
 

Sportsfan24 said:
I have had these kids and their families in my home do you think you are hearing something they have never heard from me? And you know what? Mr. Royston's phone still rings when mom or dad need a nearby foot inserted in one of their arse or they need a word of encouragement, so maybe, just maybe, YOU shouldn't have an issue with it.
Click to expand...

Just so I didn't misunderstand, you tell players they are garbage right to their face?
 

I'd like to see us recruit the entire midwest more. When is the last time we got a kid from Iowa or the Dakotas? I don't think we are getting enough out of Wisconsin and Illinois either.
 

btowngopher said:
I'd like to see us recruit the entire midwest more. When is the last time we got a kid from Iowa or the Dakotas? I don't think we are getting enough out of Wisconsin and Illinois either.
Click to expand...

We don't get many from the Dakotas because the two states combined produce single-digit Division I-A players per decade. I think Greenway and Vinatieri are the only SD natives in the NFL, and Vinatieri was playing HS ball in the 1980s.
 

Oh god! NDSU got a vote in the final AP poll. I already got 2 emails from NDSU fans bragging.
 


And to piggyback on what I said earlier -

Number of native-born NoDakians currently in the NFL: Zero point zero

Yet another way in which North Dakota can suck it.
 

I don't want to turn this into a war of words with Mr. Royston. If he wants to call Gopher FB players "Garbage" and call me a "Creep," that speaks for itself. I am not going to identify myself, but I can tell you that I am a member of the media, with 25+ years experience working for radio stations and newspapers in the Midwest, covering HS sports, D-3 sports, motor sports and covering an NFL training camp. I just believe in being positive whenever possible. If a player is having a bad game, I will say "he's struggling out there," instead of being Pat Reusse and saying "he stinks."

As to the subject of recruiting, I have covered a lot of FB players from smaller schools who were very good at their level - some even setting state records - but very few make it to the D-1 level. Finding a "diamond in the rough" who can play and contribute at D-1 is very difficult. Coaches are going to hit and miss. Under the current system, recruiting an out-of-state player with a star rating is "safer" than recruiting the local hero or a low-rated kid from a metro school. Like it or not, the star rating gives a coach some cover. A coach will have to be very confident in their standing to go after a lot of low-rated players. Let's face it - if Kill recruits a 1-star kid from Eden Prairie instead of a 3-star kid from TX, that kid had better produce, or the second-guessers will never let him forget it. Yes, anybody on this board could cite cases of local kids who turned into productive players - but we could also cite cases of metro kids who went somewhere else and didn't pan out. And given the emphasis on speed at all levels of the sport, that is going to hurt some of the MN kids who don't have the raw speed of some kids from FL or TX.
 


Sportsfan24 said:
Yes...it tends to go like this.

My man! Where did they get you from....and whose your family on the staff!
Click to expand...

So, why were you mad about Kill yelling at poor old AJ then?

Unless you're being sarcastic....
 

short ornery norwegian said:
I don't want to turn this into a war of words with Mr. Royston. If he wants to call Gopher FB players "Garbage" and call me a "Creep," that speaks for itself. I am not going to identify myself, but I can tell you that I am a member of the media, with 25+ years experience working for radio stations and newspapers in the Midwest, covering HS sports, D-3 sports, motor sports and covering an NFL training camp. I just believe in being positive whenever possible. If a player is having a bad game, I will say "he's struggling out there," instead of being Pat Reusse and saying "he stinks."

As to the subject of recruiting, I have covered a lot of FB players from smaller schools who were very good at their level - some even setting state records - but very few make it to the D-1 level. Finding a "diamond in the rough" who can play and contribute at D-1 is very difficult. Coaches are going to hit and miss. Under the current system, recruiting an out-of-state player with a star rating is "safer" than recruiting the local hero or a low-rated kid from a metro school. Like it or not, the star rating gives a coach some cover. A coach will have to be very confident in their standing to go after a lot of low-rated players. Let's face it - if Kill recruits a 1-star kid from Eden Prairie instead of a 3-star kid from TX, that kid had better produce, or the second-guessers will never let him forget it. Yes, anybody on this board could cite cases of local kids who turned into productive players - but we could also cite cases of metro kids who went somewhere else and didn't pan out. And given the emphasis on speed at all levels of the sport, that is going to hurt some of the MN kids who don't have the raw speed of some kids from FL or TX.
Click to expand...

Norwegian....don't take me to seriously. I know I don't.

No players on this team are garbage. I'm sorry.

Here's the deal, recruitment by definition is a crap shoot be it out of state players or in state players. Yet some people and coaches in the past act like if they go out of state they automatically come back with better players. I don’t agree. I think when they go out of state they are bottom feeding at the expense of better players back home. All they know about Minnesota is Eden Prairie, Wayzata, Cretin Derham and maybe one or three other schools. Most of the time in the past, gopher coaches usually found out about in state kids after a out of state school had already been recruiting him.

If a coach is using the star system to justify who he recruits, he should be fired immediately. Coaches will say anything that they believe will buy them more time to get a winner....and more of those pay checks. Disregard about 98 percent of anything they say.

Raw speed? Again another fallacy. Yes it's true the south has more speed than the north. So what, the gophers aren't getting those players.

Do this; pick a state. Then figure out how many D1 programs are between Mn and that state. Once you do that ask yourself this very important question. Why in the hell would that kid want to bypass all those schools to come play for a team that last had it's glory days before their parents were born? There usually is only answer......because it's their only option.

Again no disrespect I was only having a little fun with you by being a jerk.

Everyone else....see what you have to do when everybody knows who you are! Are you happy now Mrs. Royston.....damn you never let me have any fun! And tell your co-workers it's against the man code to rat another man out. What happens in gopherhole should stay in gopherhole!:cry:
 

There are tons of missed opportunities by the Gophers with players at NDSU, but you can't hold that against the Gophers. Anyone of those players would have chose a scholarship to the U of M, Wisconsin, Iowa, Iowa State, etc over NDSU. They aren't the only school that missed on Williams, Turner, Jirik, Vraa, Olson, etc. Many schools viewed them a step to slow, an inch to short, too low of grades, or just filled at the position that the player played. I know the U really liked Jirik, but it was a numbers game. They wanted him to walk-on, he chose to take money. There is nothing wrong with that.

Recruiting is not an exact science. If it was, why would Eric Decker's final two choices for a college be the Gophers and St. Johns? Glen Mason would have made him his #1 target that year. Truth is, Decker over-achieved. He ended up being a much better WR than he was ever supposed to be.
 

MNfootballfan said:
There are tons of missed opportunities by the Gophers with players at NDSU, but you can't hold that against the Gophers. Anyone of those players would have chose a scholarship to the U of M, Wisconsin, Iowa, Iowa State, etc over NDSU. They aren't the only school that missed on Williams, Turner, Jirik, Vraa, Olson, etc. Many schools viewed them a step to slow, an inch to short, too low of grades, or just filled at the position that the player played. I know the U really liked Jirik, but it was a numbers game. They wanted him to walk-on, he chose to take money. There is nothing wrong with that.

Recruiting is not an exact science. If it was, why would Eric Decker's final two choices for a college be the Gophers and St. Johns? Glen Mason would have made him his #1 target that year. Truth is, Decker over-achieved. He ended up being a much better WR than he was ever supposed to be.
Click to expand...

You had me all the way down to this. Decker is what he was. The only difference is he was allowed to showcase himself on the big stage. It's one thing to miss on out of state kids. But to miss on the regular with in state kids is unacceptable. At the sake of getting back in the dog house (actually staying in longer than I'm already gonna be in it for comments made early), the miss ratio is much higher with out of state kids...yet they (previous staffs) kept spending money doing it.

You can't say "wow we really didn't expect Decker/Barber/ect to be the player they were while at the same time other Mn kids they didn't recruit are playing on better teams (yes, NDSU is a better team). Even when they got it right, they didn't really get it right because they didn't expect it.
 

You must log in or register to reply here.



Top Bottom