Mike Sanford hired as OC @ Colorado (who apparently have no idea what they are doing)

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FormerFatOL said:
Yep. It's my impression some people doing the bitching don't watch much college football because it's pretty common elsewhere.
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No way in hell it's "pretty common" to run it down to one second and sometimes to TO or delay penalty.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
Yep, it's super common and I think we'll keep doing it.

I actually don't understand why it bothers people so much.
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You don't understand why people are bothered watching a QB driven to complete panic, running back and forth to communicate a change with a second left?
 

Dakota2 said:
No way in hell it's "pretty common" to run it down to one second and sometimes to TO or delay penalty.
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That wasn't the comment. It's common to do the no huddle with sideline check and also common to drain the clock. Reading comprehension is an important skill nowadays.
 

Dakota2 said:
You don't understand why people are bothered watching a QB driven to complete panic, running back and forth to communicate a change with a second left?
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Either that or I don't see it that way. Which one do you think is more likely?
 


FormerFatOL said:
That wasn't the comment. It's common to do the no huddle with sideline check and also common to drain the clock. Reading comprehension is an important skill nowadays.
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It's incredibly common. He doesn't watch college football other than the Gophers.
 

It is interesting that Colorado only offers 6 men's sports programs. Is it logistics? Budget? That seems very strange. Also, why don't they have hockey? And why doesn't Colorado State have hockey? Just wondering.

Go Gophers !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

RUTM isn’t the issue, it’s the issue when you’re 3rd and 9, with a stacked box knowing you’re going to run that play cause you just did it on the prior drive and twice on the current!
 

Sanford is on the Jedd Fisch coaching track....only a matter of time until he is a head coach at a power 5 school in spite of doing nearly nothing in the years leading up to that to justify the hire.
 



FormerFatOL said:
That wasn't the comment. It's common to do the no huddle with sideline check and also common to drain the clock. Reading comprehension is an important skill nowadays.
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So is writing. It is not common to drain the clock with the QB in a frantic tizzy trying to get a snap before a penalty. It is not common to create chaos in getting a play off. The reason it is not common is because it is stupid.

If a coach wants to drain the clock the QB is ready with play with several seconds left. Then he can calmly run the clock before calling for the snap.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
It's incredibly common. He doesn't watch college football other than the Gophers.
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Chaos, panic, time outs, and delay penalties are now "incredibly common"?

No none of that is common.
 

hello-world said:
That's a Fleck thing. People bitched about it all the way through 2019 as well.
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The sideline check has been with Fleck the whole time but the sideline check, run around like a chicken with your head cut off, wait till 1 second is left on the play clock seemed to be all Sanford. I bet anyone complaining about the sideline checks in 2019 would have a very different view of them after the last 2 seasons.
 

Dakota2 said:
Chaos, panic, time outs, and delay penalties are now "incredibly common"?

No none of that is common.
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You're pretty dramatic. Get this. . . I might not be interpreting the players running the clock down and looking to the sidelines as chaos and panic. I get that you do but I watch college football and it's pretty common.

Timeouts are pretty common. I don't know if you know this but each team gets the same number of time outs every single game. So yeah, super common. Get this. . . occasionally. . . teams even take them to avoid delay of game penalties.

So yep, incredibly common.
 



MNVCGUY said:
The sideline check has been with Fleck the whole time but the sideline check, run around like a chicken with your head cut off, wait till 1 second is left on the play clock seemed to be all Sanford. I bet anyone complaining about the sideline checks in 2019 would have a very different view of them after the last 2 seasons.
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No, no, it's the end of the world. It's chaos. It's panic. Gnash your teeth. Set your pants on fire. The sky is falling.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
You're pretty dramatic. Get this. . . I might not be interpreting the players running the clock down and looking to the sidelines as chaos and panic. I get that you do but I watch college football and it's pretty common.

Timeouts are pretty common. I don't know if you know this but each team gets the same number of time outs every single game. So yeah, super common. Get this. . . occasionally. . . teams even take them to avoid delay of game penalties.

So yep, incredibly common.
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Timeouts are common to avoid delay of game? Check the meaning of the word common. Unless, of course, if you just want to hold on to a silly point for the sake of an argument. If that's it, go ahead. I'll just turn off the dumb measurement device and let you run.
 


short ornery norwegian said:
unless these schools are doing no digging on his actual performance and are hiring him strictly on his resume.
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I can promise you that they aren't. It's all word of mouth and reputation. With the exception of a precious few, they aren't looking at the numbers.

Minnesota could have avoided this hire with proper diligence.
 

maroonfive said:
It is interesting that Colorado only offers 6 men's sports programs. Is it logistics? Budget? That seems very strange. Also, why don't they have hockey? And why doesn't Colorado State have hockey? Just wondering.

Go Gophers !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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The NCAA Div 1 minimum team requirements for a combination of men’s and women’s sports is 14 with either 6 men’s teams and 8 women’s teams, or 7 for each gender.

So if Colorado has 6 men’s teams, they must have at least 8 for women.
 

WAGopher said:
The NCAA Div 1 minimum team requirements for a combination of men’s and women’s sports is 14 with either 6 men’s teams and 8 women’s teams, or 7 for each gender.

So if Colorado has 6 men’s teams, they must have at least 8 for women.
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Yes but 6 is very low for an alleged major school in a major conference.
 


Bob_Loblaw said:
You're pretty dramatic. Get this. . . I might not be interpreting the players running the clock down and looking to the sidelines as chaos and panic. I get that you do but I watch college football and it's pretty common.

Timeouts are pretty common. I don't know if you know this but each team gets the same number of time outs every single game. So yeah, super common. Get this. . . occasionally. . . teams even take them to avoid delay of game penalties.

So yep, incredibly common.
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Well said.

Imagine using a timeout to avoid delay of game! Oh, the humanity! Hide the children!

Fleck has been coach here for five seasons, yet some fans still have no clue, no grasp of what his core football philosophy is, and no understanding of his approach — especially when it clashes with conventional football dogma

Football tradition says saving your timeouts for the end of the half and end of the game is crucial, yet Fleck is willing to use them whenever he feels it might benefit his team to do so, rather like a basketball coach.

Likewise, running the clock down. It isn't traditional, but it is Fleck's way. He believes in it.

I have to say, I like these facets of Fleck's coaching. I love the 'grind the clock' stuff. I thoroughly enjoyed watching Wisconsin get beat at their own game.
 
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Bob_Loblaw said:
Yes, every time a run doesn't work some people complain about RUTM. Oddly enough, this is true even for like outside zones.

If a run doesn't work, it was a stupid call.
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Now you are beginning to grasp the concept!

Keyboard coordinators have the benefit of hindsight. Second-guessers are never wrong.
 

The glass is half full. A bad hire netted us Kirk Ciarrocca coming back!

A bad hire also caused the Gophers two winnable games. Injuries added salt to the wounds. These two factoids changed the trajectory of the whole season and the national conversation about the Gopher football team.

BGSU caught the Gophers Rocky Mountain high from the previous week. Ill preparations by an incompetent Offensive Coordinator and one bad call to go for it on fourth-and-short on the wrong end of the field gave the game away.

BGSU got lucky with their defensive personnel matchups. They boat-anchored the punch-drunk Gophers' slow-moving TOP boat. Sanford Jr.'s inability to make adjustments and PJ Fleck's call to go-for-it on the wrong end of the field sealed their fate. Screw what the analytics say.

What is the purpose of running the clock down too far? You are giving defenses time to catch their breathe and substitute. I would have loved to see a two-minute offense deployed to catch opposing defense out of rhythm.

Sanford Jr.'s offense was ripe for the picking by an experienced coach like Bielema. All he had to do was probably focus on the BGSU game.

In hindsight, these two games were the biggest disappointments of the season because they were winnable games if the Gophers were under a competent OC.

New Year's Day Bowl, we bid you adieu.

Good luck to you Colorado University Buffaloes fans.
 
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RememberMurray said:
The 'run-the-clock' philosophy is Fleck's. Sanford was implementing it. It will continue with Ciarrocca as Fleck's new/old OC.
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Running the clock out in the second half when playing from behind (particularly versus inferior/anemic opponents) is a questionable strategy. I’d like someone defending the philosophy in this thread to explain the rationale for that. It seems like that reduces the possessions necessary to tie or take the lead and later in the game leads to desperation drives/negative game script and the opposition defense can tee off, predict calls with higher odds of success, which leads to an increased chance of an adverse event.
 

Pompous Elitist said:
Running the clock out in the second half when playing from behind (particularly versus inferior/anemic opponents) is a questionable strategy. I’d like someone defending the philosophy in this thread to explain the rationale for that. It seems like that reduces the possessions necessary to tie or take the lead and later in the game leads to desperation drives/negative game script and the opposition defense can tee off, predict calls with higher odds of success, which leads to an increased chance of an adverse event.
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I'm not defending running the clock out when behind.

I'm pointing out that running the clock in general to keep the opponents' offense off the field is an integral part of Fleck's philosophy. Sanford implemented it, but Fleck believes in it. TresselBall = FleckBall.
 

RememberMurray said:
I'm not defending running the clock out when behind.

I'm pointing out that running the clock in general to keep the opponents' offense off the field is an integral part of Fleck's philosophy. Sanford implemented it, but Fleck believes in it. TresselBall = FleckBall.
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I‘m pretty sure I would have been upset about that in 2018/2019 (honestly struggling to remember much of 2017 at the moment) but don’t recall ever thinking about it. Then again, my memory ain’t what it used to be.

Like some others said Sanford seemed to struggle to get plays in quick enough. Just throwing schit but maybe the concept of the check with me offense is a little bit like the wildcat offense, something defenses initially had trouble with but have now adapted to. If we show this, we predict they’ll do that, so we’ll switch to this at just before or at the snap, and so on. Maybe just being less predictable on down and distance, varying tempo at times would help standard down success rate. I don’t know.
 

RememberMurray said:
Well said.

Imagine using a timeout to avoid delay of game! Oh, the humanity! Hide the children!

Fleck has been coach here for five seasons, yet some fans still have no clue, no grasp of what his core football philosophy is, and no understanding of his approach — especially when it clashes with conventional football dogma

Football tradition says saving your timeouts for the end of the half and end of the game is crucial, yet Fleck is willing to use them whenever he feels it might benefit his team to do so, rather like a basketball coach.

Likewise, running the clock down. It isn't traditional, but it is Fleck's way. He believes in it.

I have to say, I like these facets of Fleck's coaching. I love the 'grind the clock' stuff. I thoroughly enjoyed watching Wisconsin get beat at their own game.
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Brilliant, Old Murr. You've done it again. Another triumph for Dummit Down Better.

Who but Old Murr could ferret out that Fleck was not unhappy with Sanford. Who but Old Murr could instictively devine that Fleck really loved delay of game penalties, wasted time outs, and a disorganized, panicked QB in regression.

But just because of silly fan complaints Fleck had to fire Sanford to SAVE THE SYSTEM. Yup, Old Murr has figured out that Fleck had to burn it down to save it. But being smarter than the average dupe, Murr knows Ciarrocca will not change a darn thing. It will all be exactly like what we saw against Miami Ohio, BG, and Illinois.

Nice try Murr. You were a strong candidate for the prestigious Dummit Down Best Award for the week. Alas, you only tied. Unfortunately, the Supreme Court of Mexico picked last week to rule that Mexican citizens have the unfettered rights to not only choose their own sex and gender but, also, can establish any age they wish on official government documents.

Hang in Murr. Better luck next week.
 

Pompous Elitist said:
Running the clock out in the second half when playing from behind (particularly versus inferior/anemic opponents) is a questionable strategy. I’d like someone defending the philosophy in this thread to explain the rationale for that. It seems like that reduces the possessions necessary to tie or take the lead and later in the game leads to desperation drives/negative game script and the opposition defense can tee off, predict calls with higher odds of success, which leads to an increased chance of an adverse event.
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First, fans have been frustrated with Fleck's timeouts since he started at Minnesota. That didn't begin when Sanford started coaching here. It will continue after Sanford is gone. That wasn't Sanford's fault. That's a conscious choice that Fleck makes. Sanford was a problem for a lot of reasons, but that wasn't one of them.

The argument for what Fleck does on offense is that it gives the offensive coordinator input into the play call after the defense is forced to lineup. For example, the offensive coordinator can check to a run if the safety is cheating toward a receiver, or the offensive coordinator can check to a pass if the safety is cheating down.

However, that essentially means that Minnesota's offensive coordinator has to call two plays every down, the main play, and the adjustment (if needed). It should lead to a better play call most of the time, but it takes twice as long to communicate. If there's a failure, or a hesitation, in that process, then it can lead to penalties or timeouts.

As a fan, I would rather see Fleck take the time to get the right play call than stick with a poor play call and snap the ball 10 seconds sooner. Running the wrong play more quickly doesn't make the offense more effective (though Chip Kelly would disagree).

One thing that coaches can do to counter Fleck's approach is implement a defense that changes based on when the ball is snapped. That's something that Zimmer does at Minnesota, and it gives Aaron Rodgers fits because he can't read the defense and adjust based on the formation. I think Bielema implemented something similar at Illinois this season and I think that is still going to give the Gophers problems next year.
 

Dakota2 said:
Brilliant, Old Murr. You've done it again. Another triumph for Dummit Down Better.

Who but Old Murr could ferret out that Fleck was not unhappy with Sanford. Who but Old Murr could instictively devine that Fleck really loved delay of game penalties, wasted time outs, and a disorganized, panicked QB in regression.

But just because of silly fan complaints Fleck had to fire Sanford to SAVE THE SYSTEM. Yup, Old Murr has figured out that Fleck had to burn it down to save it. But being smarter than the average dupe, Murr knows Ciarrocca will not change a darn thing. It will all be exactly like what we saw against Miami Ohio, BG, and Illinois.

Nice try Murr. You were a strong candidate for the prestigious Dummit Down Best Award for the week. Alas, you only tied. Unfortunately, the Supreme Court of Mexico picked last week to rule that Mexican citizens have the unfettered rights to not only choose their own sex and gender but, also, can establish any age they wish on official government documents.

Hang in Murr. Better luck next week.
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As someone that has Murray muted, this was completely unnecessary, and it made you, not him, look bad.
 

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