Marcus tweet: "good chance" two scholarships open up

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Just an idea for the 2 scholarships being available--

What if one of them is Buggs? The whole time the situation has been really weird with how little we see from him, maybe Tubby will drop his scholarship. That than can hopefully be banked somehow to the 2014 class.
 

Clem's Gophers said:
Lo- Where you at?

Any facts that Tubby promised them four years and graduation.
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I suspect that most of Tubby's late additions (Mav, Chip, Andre, Oto) were pretty frankly told that they would be given a scholarship for a year and if it worked out for both sides, then it could be extended. If it didn't work out then Tubby would help them land somewhere else. They get a chance at Big Ten ball and Tubby gets a body (hopefully more).

So far Mav, Chip and Oto all have got two years and Andre one. If Tubby recruited them the same way he recruited Coleman and Hollins with an implied 4 year commitment, then Tubby would have been much better off banking some scholarships.
 

captain.hindsight said:
Just an idea for the 2 scholarships being available--

What if one of them is Buggs? The whole time the situation has been really weird with how little we see from him, maybe Tubby will drop his scholarship. That than can hopefully be banked somehow to the 2014 class.
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He signed an NLI, no way that happens. Buggs and Ellenson will redshirt next year.
 


Clem's Gophers said:
You know for a fact Tubby promised them four years and graduation? Please. Lied? You are a joke.
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Wow, struck a nerve with you. It's funny how certain people on these boards simply cannot have someone disagree with them without resorting to that sort of thing. It's cool though, it says a lot about what kind of person.

But since you obviously cannot read, I'll try to break down my post a little easier for you. I said that I have a hard time believing that Tubby explains to the players he is recruiting the fact that scholarships do not run for their entire eligibility (4-5 years). The words "hard time believing" clue you in that I do not know it for a fact, but I do not believe he does that (I don't know and you don't know). I don't think any coach in america, outside of some really special circumstances let recruits think that their scholarship could be up for grabs every year. We can agree to disagree on that all that you like.

Now here is the jump in logic that seems to have eluded you, my next sentence was "Essentially (which you chose to not quote) ... lied." Now, a logical person would make the inference that I am saying that IF Tubby makes these kids believe that they will graduate from the U and play here through their eligibility and THEN he pulls their scholarship, he ESSENTIALLY would be a liar. Now, there is really no dispute about that.


For the record, I disagree with a lot of people on this board, even people I consider really good posters.
 

I've said it before: It would be pretty ideal if Ellenson went to prep school. The best candidates for redshirts are athletic players that need to work on their jumper a/o ball handling. Ellenson could definitely work on his jumper and ball handling, but instead of redshirting him maybe we could place him at a prep school.

I know this is a long shot, because
a) Ellenson probably wouldn't want to go to prep school and
b) Prep school is expensive

but I just thought I'd share an idea.
 

Clem's Gophers said:
Lo- Where you at?

Any facts that Tubby promised them four years and graduation.
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Stalk much? All of this time you were anxiously awaiting my return, you could have just reread what I wrote. I said that "I have a hard time believing" that should clue you in that it was my opinion. I think it is backed by common sense. Then again, your opinion is that Tubby does explain to each recruit that their scholarship could be pulled away every year. It's just your opinion.
 

howieramone said:
If we cut Joe, I would love to be the next one to go on a recruiting call to Hopkins. Once the media picks up we are cutting kids, I bet the local talent in the class of 2014 moves the Gophers right to the top of the list.
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Why on Earth would we cut Joe?

CrocShots said:
Kevin Payton got cut because he was awful, you guys. Remember?
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Completely different scenario. Cutting players when your a new coach is kind of a sketchy yet acceptable and not that rare practice in college basketball.
 



From the Barn said:
Welch can't transfer. He'd be out of eligibility since he redshirted at UC Davis.
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The only reason I mentioned Welch is because of his diminished playing time down the stretch and what Tubby said at the end of the season, you are right he red shirted his freshman year, so he isn't transfering.
 

98VQueens said:

You are right, Tyus and company would tear up and and demand answers if Chip "transferred".
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In my opinion, that is what is wrong with this line of thinking. It is essentially "Tyus or bust" type of thinking.

Your line of thinking is essentially that you think Tubby should do this, lock up Lockett and Mbakwe, and we'll finish in the top 3-5 of the Big 10 and maybe make a run to the Sweet 16. Because of our Sweet 16 tun, a guy like Tyus will look harder at the U and stay home.

I agree, if all that happens, and Tyus is good enough and stays long enough to make us really good, it all works out. Then "cutting" Mav and Chip was all worth it in the end. When you run the cost-benefit analysis, it validates the decision.

However, there is a really strong possibility that a lot of those "ifs" don't happen. Gopher basketball will continue with or without Tyus Jones.

For me, i've always thought Tubby's strength as a recruiter was his name and the idea that he is looking out for what is best for the players. I think he is seen as a high character guy. I think if multiple stories start circulating that Tubby was cutting players, I think his stock drops a little bit. It probably won't affect him with homerun recruits like Tyus or Vaughn, but it could certainly have an impact with out-state recruits who aren't as highly recruited as both Hollins or Elliason. I'd imagine people would be less pumped up about last year without Andre Hollins.
 

jovs said:
The only reason I mentioned Welch is because of his diminished playing time down the stretch and what Tubby said at the end of the season, you are right he red shirted his freshman year, so he isn't transfering.
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That was mainly due to his injury.
 




Tubby won't "force" someone out or "cut" someone. If (I stress IF) Tubby has any role in a player leaving it will be him letting the player know that he will not play next year. This will not affect recruiting in any way unless said player is from some school/AAU program that the Gophers are likely to have a relationship in the future (spoiler alert, Joe Coleman wouldn't be a candidate). It's entirely likely that one or more players will look at their situation this offseason and see that the wrtiting is on the wally that they won't play much next season and make the decision on their own to seek a better fit.

The arguing over this topic has become unbearable. We've seen 3 players leave Minnesota in recent years who clearly were not Big Ten basketball players in Limar Wilson, Engen Nurumbi, and Kevin Payton(didn't transfer, graduated with eligibility remaining). It happens (almost) everywhere, and usually benefits both the coach (gets a chance to use the scholarship on a potentially better player) and the player (gets a chance to play more someplace else).

If you have a problem with a coach telling a player he won't play (which is basically telling him to transfer if you're a competitive athlete), then you've got to come up with a way to prevent it from happening...good luck regulating that.
 

He was hurt at the end of the yr

jovs said:
The only reason I mentioned Welch is because of his diminished playing time down the stretch and what Tubby said at the end of the season, you are right he red shirted his freshman year, so he isn't transfering.
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Clem's Gophers said:
GW like post! Congrats for taking the high road, bet you fell good about yourself. Did you really take that long to break me down? Ouch, how can I go to work tomorrow, face my wife and kids after you insulted me and my character like that. You win, I am defeated, you are superior. That's your only GH objective, right?
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Why are you so angry? I thought Bob's post have been pretty reasonable....he even took the time to draw out your misinterpretations in crayon for you in efforts to find some middle ground.
 



This isn't rocket science. If Lockett says he wants to be a Gopher, I'm very confident he'll be in a Gopher uniform in 2012-13. They're not going to turn him down, unless there's some off-court issue the media and all of us have missed.

These things work themselves out. If we're short a scholarship or 2, scholarship(s) will become available. And it won't be the end of the world either way if guys transfer or not, though certainly there will be several GH posters who'll treat it as a sign of the Apocalypse. With one caveat, unless it's an Andre Hollins, and that ain't happenin'. He's the Gophers' centerpiece for the future. If he transfers, then "Houston, we have a problem" within the program.

Among those whose names are being thrown around as potential transfers, I certainly hope Coleman and Oto will be back. I see plenty of potential in both.
 

SelectionSunday said:
This isn't rocket science. If Lockett says he wants to be a Gopher, I'm very confident he'll be in a Gopher uniform in 2012-13. They're not going to turn him down, unless there's some off-court issue the media and all of us have missed.

These things work themselves out. If we're short a scholarship or 2, scholarships will become available. And it won't be the end of the world either way if guys transfer or not, though certainly there will be several GH posters who'll treat it as a sign of the Apocalypse. With one caveat, unless it's an Andre Hollins, and that ain't happenin'. He's the Gophers' centerpiece for the future. If he transfers, then "Houston, we have a problem" within the program.
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Agreed. If anyone not named Chip, Maverick, or Andre Ingram transfers we have a problem. I still have a hard time seeing any player go, but it is a little easier if they end up in a good situation and if it helps out Trent and his family as well. If Joe leaves, it may even not be the end of the world, as Trent plays the same position and so does Wally. Joe is one of the last guys I want to lose though, he is one of my favorite players and seems like an absolutley great kid.

The players we need to keep, no question, can't afford to lose, are Mo Walker, Elliot Eliason, Trevor Mbakwe, Rodney Williams, Andre Hollins, Julien Welch, and Austin Hollins. And if we lose Joe he needs to be replaced by Trent and no one else. I also hope we keep Oto as he is another player I love having here and a great story.
 

Given Trevor's success with the NCAA, is there any way we can get a fifth year for Kevin Mchale?
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
In my opinion, that is what is wrong with this line of thinking. It is essentially "Tyus or bust" type of thinking.

Your line of thinking is essentially that you think Tubby should do this, lock up Lockett and Mbakwe, and we'll finish in the top 3-5 of the Big 10 and maybe make a run to the Sweet 16. Because of our Sweet 16 tun, a guy like Tyus will look harder at the U and stay home.

I agree, if all that happens, and Tyus is good enough and stays long enough to make us really good, it all works out. Then "cutting" Mav and Chip was all worth it in the end. When you run the cost-benefit analysis, it validates the decision.

However, there is a really strong possibility that a lot of those "ifs" don't happen. Gopher basketball will continue with or without Tyus Jones.

For me, i've always thought Tubby's strength as a recruiter was his name and the idea that he is looking out for what is best for the players. I think he is seen as a high character guy. I think if multiple stories start circulating that Tubby was cutting players, I think his stock drops a little bit. It probably won't affect him with homerun recruits like Tyus or Vaughn, but it could certainly have an impact with out-state recruits who aren't as highly recruited as both Hollins or Elliason. I'd imagine people would be less pumped up about last year without Andre Hollins.
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Yep. Last thing we want to do is upset the 2 star late spring recruits. Also, we definitely do not want to make a sweet 16 run. Let mediocrity reign!
 

I Miss D.J. said:
Given Trevor's success with the NCAA, is there any way we can get a fifth year for Kevin Mchale?
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I think Kobe Bryant is in a position of more need. McHale would take minutes away from Trevor.
 


Too much Talent? not even close! too much parity perhaps. Rodney still might leave, asking a player during the season if he is coming back borders on being a rhetorical question. Not likely to say no. Rodney might not want to the 4 and could make $$ overseas. Mav I dont think minds riding the pine. He would need a push to leave. Walker maybe if is wants to play the 5 he may not want to compete with elliot the next three years for PT. Joe might want to go somewhere else to play the 2 rather than the 3.
 

MadtownGopher said:
I don't see us being able to use a 14th scholarship waiver AND being able to take on Lockett. If we get a waiver for a 14th scholarship and someone transfers to theoretically open up a free scholarship for Lockett, I think the NCAA would revoke the 14th scholarship and make us use the scholarship opening on Trevor. So if we want Lockett I bet we'll need two players to transfer out.
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This...
 

It would interesting to find out what % of players who sign a scholarship remain at that school for all 4 years. I think it would be a lot lower than some people think. Players leave for the pros; they transfer to other schools; they leave due to academic reasons; they leave due to rules violations; etc.

Stop and think about it -how many players can you name at major conference schools who stay and play a significant role for 4 years? We remember the Robbie Hummel types - but we tend to forget the players who put in 1 or 2 years with a school, then leave for whatever reason. At the mid-majors and low majors, I think the 4-year player is a little more common, because they are less likely to leave for the pros, but at the Elite schools, outside of Duke, a 4-year player/starter is a very rare commodity in today's game.

As far as the U's situation, I would have no problem with a coach telling a player that, If you stick around, you're not going to see much playing time, and leave the decision up to the player as to whether they prefer to transfer, or want to stick around and sit on the bench. Now, if the coach goes up to a player and says (essentially) - you stink - you should leave, then that's a different kettle of fish.
 

burton34 said:
Yep. Last thing we want to do is upset the 2 star late spring recruits. Also, we definitely do not want to make a sweet 16 run. Let mediocrity reign!
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Did you even read what he said?
 

THE SCOUT! said:
Too much Talent? not even close! too much parity perhaps. Rodney still might leave, asking a player during the season if he is coming back borders on being a rhetorical question. Not likely to say no. Rodney might not want to the 4 and could make $$ overseas. Mav I dont think minds riding the pine. He would need a push to leave. Walker maybe if is wants to play the 5 he may not want to compete with elliot the next three years for PT. Joe might want to go somewhere else to play the 2 rather than the 3.
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Rodney's goal is probably to play in the NBA so I don't think overseas matters, also he has said he is more comfortable at 4. I don't know what school would have Joe at the 2. 2s need to be able to shoot.
 


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