Limegrover - year 5 and here we are....

[imthewalrus]

The Gopher win/loss total to date is 1-1. Don't be judging the 5th season when only 1/6th of that season is complete. In seasons 3 & 4 the win/loss totals for the season were 8/5. See how it looks at the END of the season when one has the results of the season to base a judgement on the success OR the failure of the Coach and his Staff in planning, developing, motivating and improving the 2015 edition of Gopher Football.
Let's see how competitive the Gopher will be in Big Ten Play.

Win the next stinking game, Gopher. THAT will help! THAT would be a very good sign for the fan base of such little patience and faith.

 

[killme]

...I know Kill is Nickle and diming his play calling.

Source? Perhaps you are privy to the meetings & practices?

...bad example...

Bad/irrelevant points are succinctly illustrated by bad examples. Excellent work.

there is no words in our language that i can tell you for the lousy preparation for this game.

Great news. Hopefully we won't have to read things from you until those words are invented. #3 was your best, in terms of humorous appeal.

 

['13Gopher]

Some of the comments here are disgraceful. We've had one (I think) 4-star recruit in the past 5 years in Jeff Jones and we now have 3 for the 2016 class, including a stud O-Lineman and stud WR who TURNED DOWN offers from OSU, Bama, FSU, Oregon etc. Its well documented that this coaching staff starts with low hanging fruit to fix problems: 1) Special teams, 2) D, 3) O. They've got 1 and 2 checked off the list even to GHers standards and the offense is clearly being focused on at least with recruiting. We've got Demry on the come up, some very talented albeit raw receivers, Rodney Smith a clear talent and better and better recruits coming in. The talent is here and it is still coming in, it just needs to be developed and gel together.
The coaching and strategy can be frustrating but are we really complaining about being too conservative? For crying out loud Jerry just got a receiver to turn down an offer from Bama with the best facilities in college ball to come play here with ML7 and spend time in the tin can we know as the Bierman sports complex.
Let's all take a deep breath for a second. Unless you're 85 years old you haven't witnessed great football here so enjoy this 8-4 success right now and wait another 3 years to get to the next level. You've waited 15 years already so give it another 3.


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[GopherHomer]

Some of the comments here are disgraceful. We've had one (I think) 4-star recruit in the past 5 years in Jeff Jones and we now have 3 for the 2016 class, including a stud O-Lineman and stud WR who TURNED DOWN offers from OSU, Bama, FSU, Oregon etc. Its well documented that this coaching staff starts with low hanging fruit to fix problems: 1) Special teams, 2) D, 3) O. They've got 1 and 2 checked off the list even to GHers standards and the offense is clearly being focused on at least with recruiting. We've got Demry on the come up, some very talented albeit raw receivers, Rodney Smith a clear talent and better and better recruits coming in. The talent is here and it is still coming in, it just needs to be developed and gel together.
The coaching and strategy can be frustrating but are we really complaining about being too conservative? For crying out loud Jerry just got a receiver to turn down an offer from Bama with the best facilities in college ball to come play here with ML7 and spend time in the tin can we know as the Bierman sports complex.
Let's all take a deep breath for a second. Unless you're 85 years old you haven't witnessed great football here so enjoy this 8-4 success right now and wait another 3 years to get to the next level. You've waited 15 years already so give it another 3.


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If only Wacker and Mason knew defense was "low hanging fruit." Seriously, defense and special teams have led to the most solid teams of the last 30 years around here.

Also, I love people that blame Limegrover for predictable play calling out of one side of their mouth and then claim Leidner is trash out of the other. People need to realize that if we only win 6 games the next two years we will probably be living in the greatest 4 year stretch of Gopher football since the 60s.

 

[cncmin]

We need a home run on a QB recruit if we want to move up in getting better offensive players. So far it's our Achilles heal.

We had a triple of a QB recruit, and his name was Phillip Nelson. We all know the tragedy that turned out to be, not so much his on-field performance - which was adequate, often mediocre, sometimes pretty good - but his dismay with the scheme, which led to his transfer and arguably his arrest as well. Now, maybe one should ask why PN was dismayed with the offensive scheme; previously, almost all of the blame seemed to lie on PN. Was that blame misplaced?

 

[cncmin]

My guess is there are things some teams do/don't do on defense that make the jet sweep more successful. Either way, we should be running it a few times every game just to show it and make teams prepare for it.

There is nearly zero excuse not to employ the jet sweep or other type of innovative offense with great frequency. We don't have the athletes in the running game to just bowl over and overpower the opponent, nor to make outstanding passing plays with any reasonable frequency. Yet that's the simple scheme we employ - one that works well if and only if you are the significantly stronger and more skilled team. This has rarely been the case in Kill's tenure.

 

[Old Goph]

There is nearly zero excuse not to employ the jet sweep or other type of innovative offense with great frequency. We don't have the athletes in the running game to just bowl over and overpower the opponent, nor to make outstanding passing plays with any reasonable frequency. Yet that's the simple scheme we employ - one that works well if and only if you are the significantly stronger and more skilled team. This has rarely been the case in Kill's tenure.

I've often wondered why we don't run 9 or 10 jet sweeps in a row. I mean they can't stop ALL of them, can they?

 

[mavgopher12]

thedailygopher.com has a great post by Derek Burns that just went up. Great read, really showed me how little I know about football overall.

The really interesting tweets to me were on jet sweeps and the Streveler run. Really fun stuff to look at for a novice football mind like myself. I have to laugh as I played QB for 2 years during high school too :/

Everyone should check it out.

 

[Great Plains Gopher]

The first half was truly a disgrace, but at least the coaches admitted that. But there are six brutal games to go and we could lose most or all playing one half that badly: N'Western, Iowa and Buckeyes on the road; Nebrasla, Michigan, Wisconsin at home. And Illinois looks much improved, too, like Michigan and Nebraska if not at their level. This could be a rocky season.

 

[GophersInIowa]

There is nearly zero excuse not to employ the jet sweep or other type of innovative offense with great frequency. We don't have the athletes in the running game to just bowl over and overpower the opponent, nor to make outstanding passing plays with any reasonable frequency. Yet that's the simple scheme we employ - one that works well if and only if you are the significantly stronger and more skilled team. This has rarely been the case in Kill's tenure.

Yes there is. If you know there is a good chance something isn't going to work, you don't run it with great frequency. As mavgopher12 mentioned, Derek Burns did a good job breaking down some plays including why we didn't run the jet sweep. I think we should still run it a few times a game but there is most certainly reasons to not run it with frequency every single game.

Here is the link, some good stuff here: http://www.thedailygopher.com/2015/9/15/9334401/minnesota-football-film-breakdown-play-recaps-derek-burns-colorado-state

 

[MrC]

thedailygopher.com has a great post by Derek Burns that just went up. Great read, really showed me how little I know about football overall.

The really interesting tweets to me were on jet sweeps and the Streveler run. Really fun stuff to look at for a novice football mind like myself. I have to laugh as I played QB for 2 years during high school too :/

Everyone should check it out.

Thanks for the excellent tip. I have been watching this game for many years, but am always amazed to learn how little I know.

 

[MrC]

Being a season ticket holder since '95, I may be in the minority in saying I am fully satisfied with the progress this team is making. We lost to an excellent TCU team by less than half the spread, and beat a good CSU team. We beat CSU by 3, the line was only 5, and the team showed great toughness in finding a way to win. I would have feared losing both games in the past, and the TCU game by a blow out.

Last year we played for the West championship. This year we may win it, or we may have a disappointing season. Either way, this team has come farther and faster than I expected, based on 20 years of often maddening experience.

Like it or not, Kill will, in my opinion, stick with his coaching staff, including Matt Limegrover. And I like it. I have seen progress developing players, and expect it to continue. Someday I might come to the opinion that Kill should move on, although that appears pretty unlikely. Until then, I suspect spending energy wishing any member of Kill's coaching staff was gone is wasted energy. They are a package deal.

 

[cncmin]

Yes there is. If you know there is a good chance something isn't going to work, you don't run it with great frequency. As mavgopher12 mentioned, Derek Burns did a good job breaking down some plays including why we didn't run the jet sweep. I think we should still run it a few times a game but there is most certainly reasons to not run it with frequency every single game.

Here is the link, some good stuff here: http://www.thedailygopher.com/2015/9/15/9334401/minnesota-football-film-breakdown-play-recaps-derek-burns-colorado-state

OK fine, here are two points:
(1) I mentioned "or other innovative schemes"; if the jet sweep set of option plays is not available, do we still have to huddle for 25 seconds and then run a dive play every third play? We can't or shouldn't expect more?
(2) I think it's worth repeating the question: We can't or shouldn't expect more out of the offensive playcalling and performance? If we were settling for mediocrity, we could have just kept the second to last coach and not gone through the previous to stay there.

 

[short ornery norwegian]

Oh, no - the "settling for mediocrity" argument.

This really gets my goat - the idea that, if someone else doesn't agree with you, then they are "settling for mediocrity."

1st - I don't think an 8-4 regular season and a January 1st bowl game is mediocre. In my book (as someone who has followed Gopher FB for almost 50 years), last year was certainly an above-average season - heck, a really good and borderline great season compared to the 50 years that preceeded it.

But, at the heart of it, the "settling for mediocrity" argument really comes down to this: "I'm right, and you're wrong." I, and I alone, know the path to greatness, and anyone who does not agree with me is "settling for mediocrity." Look - it's a free country, and you have a right to your opinion - but that is all it is - an opinion. Moses did not come down from a mountain and hand you two stone tablets with the secrets to a winning FB team engraved on them by the hand of God.

If I had a magic wand, I would love to zap some of the know-it-alls on this board, and put them on the sideline during a game where they would have to make the decisions. I think it would take about 30 seconds for them to realize that it's not as simple or as clean-cut as they make it sound.

 

[cncmin]

Oh, no - the "settling for mediocrity" argument.

This really gets my goat - the idea that, if someone else doesn't agree with you, then they are "settling for mediocrity."

1st - I don't think an 8-4 regular season and a January 1st bowl game is mediocre. In my book (as someone who has followed Gopher FB for almost 50 years), last year was certainly an above-average season - heck, a really good and borderline great season compared to the 50 years that preceeded it.

But, at the heart of it, the "settling for mediocrity" argument really comes down to this: "I'm right, and you're wrong." I, and I alone, know the path to greatness, and anyone who does not agree with me is "settling for mediocrity." Look - it's a free country, and you have a right to your opinion - but that is all it is - an opinion. Moses did not come down from a mountain and hand you two stone tablets with the secrets to a winning FB team engraved on them by the hand of God.

If I had a magic wand, I would love to zap some of the know-it-alls on this board, and put them on the sideline during a game where they would have to make the decisions. I think it would take about 30 seconds for them to realize that it's not as simple or as clean-cut as they make it sound.

Yeah, it's their job, and they get paid a fine salary to do it.
You make it sound like just because we're not fellow D-1 coaches, that we are clueless about the game, strategy, and game management. I don't think that is an appropriate assumption, for various reasons based on the individuals here. Some played the game, some devised or ran an offense or a defense, some coached a team, others play and/or know a lot about many sports. The people here aren't simply knowledge-free idiots when it comes to football or other sports.

When the coaches of the home team fail, as at least one coach did last Saturday, fans don't need to blindly support them. Leaders who get blind support usually are allowed to run themselves into a mess. Criticism - albeit not overdone - is essential. In this case, you should be a lot more disturbed, as a Gopher fan, by a lack of criticism over that putrid performance on offense (and, the generally poor offensive performances being a consistent theme for the home team), which would only signify apathy.

 

[killme]

Yeah, it's their job, and they get paid a fine salary to do it.
You make it sound like just because we're not fellow D-1 coaches, that we are clueless about the game, strategy, and game management. I don't think that is an appropriate assumption, for various reasons based on the individuals here. Some played the game, some devised or ran an offense or a defense, some coached a team, others play and/or know a lot about many sports. The people here aren't simply knowledge-free idiots when it comes to football or other sports.

When the coaches of the home team fail, as at least one coach did last Saturday, fans don't need to blindly support them. Leaders who get blind support usually are allowed to run themselves into a mess. Criticism - albeit not overdone - is essential. In this case, you should be a lot more disturbed, as a Gopher fan, by a lack of criticism over that putrid performance on offense (and, the generally poor offensive performances being a consistent theme for the home team), which would only signify apathy.

Lotsa wannabees here, cncmin. There's evidence you're one of them. Just because you devised a creative offensive scheme for your pee wee team that scored 50 against the team coached by Billy's mom, doesn't mean you can out-coach men at the highest level of the profession. If you really could, you'd be doing it and getting paid a "fine salary." Our coaches know more about what went well and WHAT WENT WRONG than you. Feel free to wave your hands and yell and scream that you know more than them, but other than a few other "knowledge-free" self-proclaimed unproven experts, most of us will stick with the proven men getting paid good money to do it (against others getting paid good money...).

 

[Pompous Elitist]

Lotsa wannabees here, cncmin. There's evidence you're one of them. Just because you devised a creative offensive scheme for your pee wee team that scored 50 against the team coached by Billy's mom, doesn't mean you can out-coach men at the highest level of the profession. If you really could, you'd be doing it and getting paid a "fine salary." Our coaches know more about what went well and WHAT WENT WRONG than you. Feel free to wave your hands and yell and scream that you know more than them, but other than a few other "knowledge-free" self-proclaimed unproven experts, most of us will stick with the proven men getting paid good money to do it (against others getting paid good money...).

Wow. I think someone needs a "timeout".

 

[tinyarch]

Last I saw, coaches call plays and athletes execute them.
Is Limegrover responsible for the athletes inability to execute the offense in the first half of last Saturday's football game?
Did he make adjustments in plays called during the second half?
Let's relax and just enjoy.

 

[GophersInIowa]

OK fine, here are two points:
(1) I mentioned "or other innovative schemes"; if the jet sweep set of option plays is not available, do we still have to huddle for 25 seconds and then run a dive play every third play? We can't or shouldn't expect more?
(2) I think it's worth repeating the question: We can't or shouldn't expect more out of the offensive playcalling and performance? If we were settling for mediocrity, we could have just kept the second to last coach and not gone through the previous to stay there.

Fair enough, I don't disagree with some of the things you are saying. It's just that almost everyone brings up the jet sweep. Just because it worked great against a few teams last year doesn't mean it is going to always work. That's all.

 

[Ole]

Fair enough, I don't disagree with some of the things you are saying. It's just that almost everyone brings up the jet sweep. Just because it worked great against a few teams last year doesn't mean it is going to always work. That's all.

Limegrover is a very interesting playcaller. I really dug into the NIU offense just for my own curiousity when Kill was hired.
What I noticed, which has proven true here, is that Limegrover really changes the offense game to game alot.
This might be good or bad, we've seen him apologize for overthinking things too much(Iowa 2013), we've seen him come up with brilliant and creative out of nowhere gameplans too(Nebraska 2013).
At NIU he would run the QB's 20 times one week, pass 40 times the next, run option the next, and come back to a power running game where the top RB gets 30 carries.
Last year we had a bread and butter zone read play to cobb we could almost always run for 3-4 yards, or hit a big run. We've struggled to find what that play will be this year so far. I think it's likely we'll find that Rodney Smith ends up becoming the focus of the offense and as the offensive line heals up we see some pretty impressive games from him. I also think that as the pressure is taken off Leidner to carry the offense, he'll be better at the throws he has already shown he can make.
This is an inexperienced and injured group right now on O, it will get better and Limegrover will hopefully call a few gems like he always has.

 

[Maverick]

Limegrover is a very interesting playcaller. I really dug into the NIU offense just for my own curiousity when Kill was hired.
What I noticed, which has proven true here, is that Limegrover really changes the offense game to game alot.
This might be good or bad, we've seen him apologize for overthinking things too much(Iowa 2013), we've seen him come up with brilliant and creative out of nowhere gameplans too(Nebraska 2013).
At NIU he would run the QB's 20 times one week, pass 40 times the next, run option the next, and come back to a power running game where the top RB gets 30 carries.
Last year we had a bread and butter zone read play to cobb we could almost always run for 3-4 yards, or hit a big run. We've struggled to find what that play will be this year so far. I think it's likely we'll find that Rodney Smith ends up becoming the focus of the offense and as the offensive line heals up we see some pretty impressive games from him. I also think that as the pressure is taken off Leidner to carry the offense, he'll be better at the throws he has already shown he can make.
This is an inexperienced and injured group right now on O, it will get better and Limegrover will hopefully call a few gems like he always has.

This^^^^

 

[killme]

Limegrover is a very interesting playcaller. I really dug into the NIU offense just for my own curiousity when Kill was hired.
What I noticed, which has proven true here, is that Limegrover really changes the offense game to game alot.
This might be good or bad, we've seen him apologize for overthinking things too much(Iowa 2013), we've seen him come up with brilliant and creative out of nowhere gameplans too(Nebraska 2013).
At NIU he would run the QB's 20 times one week, pass 40 times the next, run option the next, and come back to a power running game where the top RB gets 30 carries.
Last year we had a bread and butter zone read play to cobb we could almost always run for 3-4 yards, or hit a big run. We've struggled to find what that play will be this year so far. I think it's likely we'll find that Rodney Smith ends up becoming the focus of the offense and as the offensive line heals up we see some pretty impressive games from him. I also think that as the pressure is taken off Leidner to carry the offense, he'll be better at the throws he has already shown he can make.
This is an inexperienced and injured group right now on O, it will get better and Limegrover will hopefully call a few gems like he always has.

Excellent post, Ole. You should post more.

 

[Lakeville Goldy]

To answer the original question, yes, Limegrover should take some blame. No question. He has certainly made decisions that deserve criticism.

But, to answer the question you're really asking, no, Limegrover shouldn't be fired. Coach Kill was very clear that the plan was to shore up special teams and defense first then deal with the offense. It hasn't help that personnel wise the team had a few misses, a few transfers, a few people leaving the program that have really hurt. But Limegrover didn't miss one receiver on Saturday, he didn't drop one pass, he didn't miss his blocking assignment...

Frankly, I don't see Limegrover going anywhere (like it or not) unless Coach Kill is terminated. I truly think Coach Kill would openly defy any order an AD gave him to fire Limegrover (or Claeys or Klein or ...).

 

[Maverick]

To answer the original question, yes, Limegrover should take some blame. No question. He has certainly made decisions that deserve criticism.

But, to answer the question you're really asking, no, Limegrover shouldn't be fired. Coach Kill was very clear that the plan was to shore up special teams and defense first then deal with the offense. It hasn't help that personnel wise the team had a few misses, a few transfers, a few people leaving the program that have really hurt. But Limegrover didn't miss one receiver on Saturday, he didn't drop one pass, he didn't miss his blocking assignment...

Frankly, I don't see Limegrover going anywhere (like it or not) unless Coach Kill is terminated. I truly think Coach Kill would openly defy any order an AD gave him to fire Limegrover (or Claeys or Klein or ...).

To your last point... As he very rightly should. That is the kind of interference that BA is famous for over in stinky badgerland.

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[Governor Sibley]

We once went over 10 straight quarters without an offensive touchdown.

I would love to see our first quarter offensive stats over the past few years.

 

[Ole]

To answer the original question, yes, Limegrover should take some blame. No question. He has certainly made decisions that deserve criticism.

But, to answer the question you're really asking, no, Limegrover shouldn't be fired. Coach Kill was very clear that the plan was to shore up special teams and defense first then deal with the offense. It hasn't help that personnel wise the team had a few misses, a few transfers, a few people leaving the program that have really hurt. But Limegrover didn't miss one receiver on Saturday, he didn't drop one pass, he didn't miss his blocking assignment...

Frankly, I don't see Limegrover going anywhere (like it or not) unless Coach Kill is terminated. I truly think Coach Kill would openly defy any order an AD gave him to fire Limegrover (or Claeys or Klein or ...).

I think it's fair to consider the pretty heralded offensive players we expected to be in charge right now. McDonald, Harbison, Nelson, Maxx, Donovan Jones. Injuries to Plsek and Duke Anyanwu have really hurt the depth a key position.
Not to mention Jeff Jones having to sit out a year and then getting hurt in practice.
The depth just hasn't been there to overcome this type of stuff like it has on defense. The QB/WR depth chart hasn't allowed many freshmen to RS until last season, and even then we struggled to not burn Gentry, Holland, and Gant's eligibility. We even did that with Stills this year.
Perspective is key, up close it just seems like everything sucks and the offense is a mess, but take a step back I you can see reasons for the problems and a path forward to a seemingly better situation depthwise.

 

[gopherdudepart2]

I don't really see a ton of issues with play calling right now. For me if anything the offensive coordinator has been good at adjusting his game plan week to week from what he is seeing the opposing defense do on film. The only critique I would have is that when things are not going well on game day, a certain base play is not working well, either due to execution errors or the defense is just on to what they are doing and outplaying the Gophers, the play calls take a little longer to adjust to game situations than I would like. That is probably due to the inexperience level of the players and some of the back ups playing this season. If anything I would like to see the QB audible a little more and take charge of changes at the line, he has it in him to do so, and if the defense changes there look like they are with there safety's a lot he should be able to diagnose that up front. It's not hard to see the difficulty the offensive line is having due to injury's and lack of practice time for some. It takes five guys practicing together and getting a feel for that same group to have continuity up front. A lot things would get solved if Lauer could get healthy and get back in there at left tackle, and get Pirsig back to the right tackle spot, his more natural position. You would see less whiffs and missing blocks if we could get a healthy five up front playing from week to week.

 

[e.bigelow]

Is that bubble screen to woli the replacement for the jet sweep to maye? Because, ya know.. there jet sweep NEVER worked. Ever. Terrible play, only got us 10-15 yds a pop..

Have we all forgotten the Fruechte (sp?) sweep from the last two seasons that probably netted -39 yards on 7 attempts and like two fumbles?

 

[Pompous Elitist]

Last I saw, coaches call plays and athletes execute them.
Is Limegrover responsible for the athletes inability to execute the offense in the first half of last Saturday's football game?
Did he make adjustments in plays called during the second half?
Let's relax and just enjoy.

Yes. Coaches get some of the credit when things go well and some of the blame when things go poorly. They are responsible for having the players prepared and motivated. They are involved with recruiting. The play calling, recognizing players abilities, putting a hat on a hat and finding mismatches is just one part of it.
If coaches are not responsible for the product on game day then nobody would ever get fired. ADs and fans should just wait for recruiting to catch up?

I don't think Limegrover should be fired. We could be a lot worse... I do think its OK to question why we need an offensive timeout coming out of a punt, or why we don't put the ball in the hands of our playmakers; frustrating tendencies.

The team put up 28 points a game last season, which wasn't bad. If we can match or exceed that this season we should win a lot of games.

Kill himself is critical. Are you guys going to jump down his throat? He knows things need to change.

 

[MNGoldenGophers1]

Although the jury is still out on Limey’s performance, I think in his defense (no pun intended as you’ll see in a moment), you need to look at the big picture of what Kill has done and is doing. Kill said the first thing that he would do is build a solid defense and worry about the offense later. Although there is still some work to be done, I believe by and large we now have a successful defense because:
1. Kill insists on it, and
2. Claeys and Limey play well in the sandbox together.

Because Minnesota’s coaching situation is unique and Kill is very loyal to his assistants and vice-versa, this emphasis of focusing on defense first can more easily happen. I contend at most other programs the offensive and defensive coordinators are in much greater competition to get the “athletes” on their side of the ball because:
1. Most have year-to-year contracts, and
2. Unlike Kill, they probably have head-coach who for reasons of self-preservation will quickly throw a coordinator under the bus if things go bad.

Consequently, at most programs, the coordinators are in competition with one another and will do whatever they can to get the best talent on their side of the ball. Furthermore, a lot of head-coach will likely and readily move “moveable” players to areas of weakness to qualm complaints. Unlike at Minnesota, this short-term strategy can be a long-term recipe for disaster. I think this was an issue with our previous coaching staffs where is seemed like there was a revolving door for the coordinator positions.

It is not that Kill won’t move players around, I just think he is very strategic about it and doesn’t do it to the extent of other programs. I think Limey understands Kill’s philosophy and therefore does not have to worry about losing his job just because the offense isn’t as far along as the defense. In fact, I’m guessing when Claeys and Limey drink enough beer, they come on GH to be amused by knuckleheads like me who really don’t have a clue about how things work at a D1 football program.

Anyway now that we’re in year 5 of the new regime, I’m guessing we’ll start to see the offense get the speed and talent we’ve been seeing for the last couple of years on defense. I think the younger wide receivers and running backs will start to show evidence that the offense is now the focus and it may just take a year or two before it starts to shine the same way our defense does today. We just need to be a bit more patient.

My 2-cent ramble.