Limegrover: “I think our receivers know we recruited three phenomenal freshmen”

Is the pi$$ing contest finally over with? Can we discuss Wrens post now?

Wren makes a legit point about Limey and lack of a quality passing game.

Players need to execute the play and have the physical skills and desire to make it work. The team struggled with that in all phases during Kill's first season and since has gradually improved the running and kicking game. The passing game has lagged behind for many reasons often discussed on GH.

I think its mostly a matter of getting the right combo of a talent QB's and WR's who can do a better job of executing the play. And there is still lots of work to do to get there and it may not happen this coming season.

But lets now fool ourselves. Coach Kill and Limey are all about the running game, strong defense and solid kicking. They will never be a Houston or TXTech type pass ing offense and Kill has averaged about 65% run to 35% pass. There has been just one year in the past six years combined at NIU & MN where their passing game ranked better than 100 and that was #85 in 2010 with Kill's best team and Harnisch at QB who was very efficient. Pass efficiency is what has been lacking.
 

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Pass efficiency is what has been lacking.

Agree 100%.

They ran as much as they did last year because that is what the team was most proficient at. I don't think it was the play calling; the coaches were trying to put the players in a position to succeed.

I went to a couple of practices this spring, and the passing game looks much better. Not "world beater" better, but better. I wish that had been on display during the spring game.

Nate Wozniak caught virtually everything that was thrown his way, and there has been a lot written about Duke Anyanwu, and I was impressed with him every time I saw him. Along with Maxx, I think that pass catching TE's will be a real strength on this team. I expect to see continued maturity from our young receivers from last year, and I hope to be equally impressed with the incoming trio, and I think there is reason for excitement too.

Now we just need to QB's to deliver the ball efficiently, and the line to hold up long enough for Leidner to be comfortable with his reads, and then entire offense makes a big stride forward.
 


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9/10, would watch again
 


Wolitarsky confused me last season. I thought he showed better speed and moves than advertised. I also thought he showed worse hands than advertised. I don't know what to believe.

Totally agree. I think Jones has better potential.
 

Wolitarsky confused me last season. I thought he showed better speed and moves than advertised. I also thought he showed worse hands than advertised. I don't know what to believe.
He has said the speed of the college game was confusing to him at first. He got better as the year went on last year and he was catching everything in spring practice so let's hope for the best this year.
 

If I had any eligibility left, I would become a walk on and show Wolitarski how to succeed. Of course at my age, I could show any of you guys the same thing. From my upcoming book..."How To Succeed At the University of Minnesota".
 





Is the pi$$ing contest finally over with? Can we discuss Wrens post now?

Wren makes a legit point about Limey and lack of a quality passing game.

Players need to execute the play and have the physical skills and desire to make it work. The team struggled with that in all phases during Kill's first season and since has gradually improved the running and kicking game. The passing game has lagged behind for many reasons often discussed on GH.

I think its mostly a matter of getting the right combo of a talent QB's and WR's who can do a better job of executing the play. And there is still lots of work to do to get there and it may not happen this coming season.

But lets now fool ourselves. Coach Kill and Limey are all about the running game, strong defense and solid kicking. They will never be a Houston or TXTech type pass ing offense and Kill has averaged about 65% run to 35% pass. There has been just one year in the past six years combined at NIU & MN where their passing game ranked better than 100 and that was #85 in 2010 with Kill's best team and Harnisch at QB who was very efficient. Pass efficiency is what has been lacking.

For some reason, Limegrover hasn't been able to get very comfortable with his cast of characters on the offense. Quarterbacks come and become his "only" option, and just about the time you would expect that Limegrover would be getting comfortable with the quarterback, that "running quarterback" thing raises it's ugly head and injury strikes. Even with the quarterback built for running, the offense Limegrover called ran him into the ground. You could see it coming during the ooc portion of the schedule Gray's senior season. He was grinding out a lot of yards on the ground and only passed as a second thought. Many of the plays were called runs and even when there was an "option" Mr. Gray ran the ball. By mid-season, he was not even able to play quarterback. He was hurt. Banged up. It was pretty sad to see.

If you were a defensive coordinator from a B1G school, or from any school facing a Limegrover offense, wouldn't you put 8 or 9 men in the box and say: beat me by throwing the ball, but we will not let you be us by havinging your running backs and quarterbacks run us off the field. In 2013, the Gophers led by Nelson won 4 Conference football games. They beat the teams that they were more physical than. And that will forever be the story with a Limegrover coached and play-called Gopher Football Team. I just don't think Coach Limegrover can even convince himself that he wants to throw the football to try to win B1G Football Games. How can he sell it to the offensive linemen that he has a hand in coaching? How can he sell it to his running backs so that they will pick up blitzes and block for a well-balanced passing offense? How can he coach up his quarterbacks to run a well-balanced offense that NEEDS the passing game to be effective...when he believes that his running backs AND his quarterbacks NEED to advance the ball via the ground and that he needs an offensive line that is built to block a run-based offense? Which teams in the B1G Conference that are on the schedule will the Gophers be more physical than? Just what is going to happen during that stretch in November when they face iowa, the Ohio State, Nebraska in Lincoln and wisky in Madison? Will they be MORE physical than iowa, the Buckeyes, the Black Shirts in Lincoln or the Badgers in Madison? That is quite a stretch that will put a LOT of physical demands on a team that relys on being physically dominant over Conference Member Teams to achieve wins. We will get our first glimpse of the physicality of the 2014 Gophers against Conference foes on Sept. 27th at the Big House in Ann Arbor. Will Limegrover's offense be able to ram the ball down the throats of the Corn/Blues on their home turf?

And has Coach Limegrover been "converted" into an offensive coordinator who actually BELIEVES the forward pass belongs in Coach Kill's offense? He has got to sell it to himself before he can sell it to his quarterbacks, offensive linemen, running backs AND receivers. I really don't know if he has had the kind of "conversion experience" that has made him a true believer that the Kill Offense is a passing offense when it NEEDS to be able to pass.

I'm not judging him or his tendencies and philosophy. God only knows I LOVE to have my Gophers be able to pound the rock and control the clock. But, does he have the physicality with the line, the backs, receivers who really block and a quarterback who can further extend the ability of the running game to be able to do that. And does the defensive unit have the ability to ABSOLUTELY shut down the other team? Michigan State DID have that kind of physicality. Their defense alone gave them that much physicality. THAT is they type of team Coach Limegrover wants to have I would guess. (Only my guess.) Does he have the kind of offense AND defense that MSU had last season...the last few seasons? I fear not...right now any way. Maybe some day. But, in the mean while, Coach Limegrover nees to "start believing" enough to SELL the offensive linemen, the running backs, the recrivers AND the quarterbacks that his offense IS well-balanced and used the pass to pull the defense out of the box when it's crunch time. And, it would be pretty damn helpful if he could convince opposing Conference Defensive coordinators that he had 3 REAL studdly wide receivers who were going to put some fear in his returning wide-outs. Those people who call the defenses against Coach Limgrover's offensive calls should start wondering IF things have changed even just a little bit.
 

Limey still does not have the horses in the stable to put a solid offense on the field. Look at the last three games, especially against Wisky and MSU. Their strong D kept us in check both on the ground and passing. Weber was totally ineffective in those games as well as against Syracuse going a collective 15/48/31%/zero TD's.

Wisky and MSU were better than the Gophers in all phases. Neither of their QB's had great games against the Gophers but they were more far more efficient and productive than Nelson. Their QB's and WR's did their part well when called on. In the meantime, their running game and D were better than ours.

Limey will run the ball first and pass second and rely on good D and special teams. That is their plan. My point is that our QB & passing game needs to improve enough to keep the opposition off balance and make the plays when needed. There is a lot of work to do to get there.

Our passing game and OL may not be good enough this season to keep the opposing D honest. We don't have a Harnisch or Lynch type and decent receivers like Limey had at NIU. Maybe in 2015.

Limey's offense seemed to do just fine in 2010 with a very good QB and receivers along with Spann and a solid D.

Simply put, we need better players.
 

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That is ridiculous and it made me laugh. Well done.
 



Limey still does not have the horses in the stable to put a solid offense on the field. Look at the last three games, especially against Wisky and MSU. Their strong D kept us in check both on the ground and passing. Weber was totally ineffective in those games as well as against Syracuse going a collective 15/48/31%/zero TD's.

Wisky and MSU were better than the Gophers in all phases. Neither of their QB's had great games against the Gophers but they were more far more efficient and productive than Nelson. Their QB's and WR's did their part well when called on. In the meantime, their running game and D were better than ours.

Limey will run the ball first and pass second and rely on good D and special teams. That is their plan. My point is that our QB & passing game needs to improve enough to keep the opposition off balance and make the plays when needed. There is a lot of work to do to get there.

Our passing game and OL may not be good enough this season to keep the opposing D honest. We don't have a Harnisch or Lynch type and decent receivers like Limey had at NIU. Maybe in 2015.

Limey's offense seemed to do just fine in 2010 with a very good QB and receivers along with Spann and a solid D.

Simply put, we need better players.


When will it all come together for Limey and his style of play calling? He seems to want running quarterbacks who do NOT get hurt and miss Conference Game time. How long can the trend for my Gophers go: "...from the lower left corner trending upward towards the upper right corner..." of the Gopher's Conference win chart. (To quote Dennis Gardmen (sp?), a commodities trader and investment letter writer) as he describes a rising stock market in his appearances on CNBC.) Or, will 2014 dip from the surprisingly good 4 Conference win total of the 2013 season. Limey would perhaps be better off letting go of his desire to have the quarterback playing as large a role in the running game and finding a way to make the passing game even a LITTLE more efficient.

Coach Kill and Coach Limey may...OR...may NEVER again come up with those two quarterbacks they left behind at NIU...you know, the ones who can run with the ball and never seem to get injured who can also pass the ball to some pretty darn good wide receivers. Those two just may be the high water mark on lucking out on quarterbacks who can run, stay healthy and also throw the ball pretty darn well. So, it looks to me as though they have to assess just why so many of the wide receivers they brought in during the first three years in Minneapolis didn't find ways to make it happen with all the quarterbacks they have gone through during those same three seasons. No matter what, heading into year number four, the quarterback situation appears to be a bit unsettling to me, considering that Limey and the Kill offense wants quarterbacks and to date hasn't done a lot in coming up with receivers for those quarterbacks to find when the quarterbacks are NOT running for their lives. My hunch is that perhaps the problem lies with the offensive line as much as anything else. Perhaps Limey needs to turn over some of his duties coaching offensive linemen if he is also going to be calling the plays and coordinating the offense. AND: maybe a quarterback who runs a LOT may not be a good solution for the situation at the University of Minnesota. I guess it is only good if it works. In three years time, there has only been that ONE four week period when things worked out pretty darn well with the quarterback. And for what ever reasons, that quarterback left the team with two seasons remaining. Sure, people can try to put it all on the quarterback, but I have to look toward the system and the coaching and philosophy of the brain trust as being at least some small part of the circumstances that left my Gophers in such an uncertain situation at the quarterback and receiver positions heading into the 4th year of the Kill/Limey era of offense at the University of Minnesota.
 

In all fairness, I expected the strong defenses of Wisconsin and Michigan State to shut us down. We needed big special teams and defensive plays sprinkled in with a fluke offensive drive or two, along with solid defense all game to win.
 

For some reason, Limegrover hasn't been able to get very comfortable with his cast of characters on the offense. Quarterbacks come and become his "only" option, and just about the time you would expect that Limegrover would be getting comfortable with the quarterback, that "running quarterback" thing raises it's ugly head and injury strikes. Even with the quarterback built for running, the offense Limegrover called ran him into the ground. You could see it coming during the ooc portion of the schedule Gray's senior season. He was grinding out a lot of yards on the ground and only passed as a second thought. Many of the plays were called runs and even when there was an "option" Mr. Gray ran the ball. By mid-season, he was not even able to play quarterback. He was hurt. Banged up. It was pretty sad to see.

If you were a defensive coordinator from a B1G school, or from any school facing a Limegrover offense, wouldn't you put 8 or 9 men in the box and say: beat me by throwing the ball, but we will not let you be us by havinging your running backs and quarterbacks run us off the field. In 2013, the Gophers led by Nelson won 4 Conference football games. They beat the teams that they were more physical than. And that will forever be the story with a Limegrover coached and play-called Gopher Football Team. I just don't think Coach Limegrover can even convince himself that he wants to throw the football to try to win B1G Football Games. How can he sell it to the offensive linemen that he has a hand in coaching? How can he sell it to his running backs so that they will pick up blitzes and block for a well-balanced passing offense? How can he coach up his quarterbacks to run a well-balanced offense that NEEDS the passing game to be effective...when he believes that his running backs AND his quarterbacks NEED to advance the ball via the ground and that he needs an offensive line that is built to block a run-based offense? Which teams in the B1G Conference that are on the schedule will the Gophers be more physical than? Just what is going to happen during that stretch in November when they face iowa, the Ohio State, Nebraska in Lincoln and wisky in Madison? Will they be MORE physical than iowa, the Buckeyes, the Black Shirts in Lincoln or the Badgers in Madison? That is quite a stretch that will put a LOT of physical demands on a team that relys on being physically dominant over Conference Member Teams to achieve wins. We will get our first glimpse of the physicality of the 2014 Gophers against Conference foes on Sept. 27th at the Big House in Ann Arbor. Will Limegrover's offense be able to ram the ball down the throats of the Corn/Blues on their home turf?

And has Coach Limegrover been "converted" into an offensive coordinator who actually BELIEVES the forward pass belongs in Coach Kill's offense? He has got to sell it to himself before he can sell it to his quarterbacks, offensive linemen, running backs AND receivers. I really don't know if he has had the kind of "conversion experience" that has made him a true believer that the Kill Offense is a passing offense when it NEEDS to be able to pass.

I'm not judging him or his tendencies and philosophy. God only knows I LOVE to have my Gophers be able to pound the rock and control the clock. But, does he have the physicality with the line, the backs, receivers who really block and a quarterback who can further extend the ability of the running game to be able to do that. And does the defensive unit have the ability to ABSOLUTELY shut down the other team? Michigan State DID have that kind of physicality. Their defense alone gave them that much physicality. THAT is they type of team Coach Limegrover wants to have I would guess. (Only my guess.) Does he have the kind of offense AND defense that MSU had last season...the last few seasons? I fear not...right now any way. Maybe some day. But, in the mean while, Coach Limegrover nees to "start believing" enough to SELL the offensive linemen, the running backs, the recrivers AND the quarterbacks that his offense IS well-balanced and used the pass to pull the defense out of the box when it's crunch time. And, it would be pretty damn helpful if he could convince opposing Conference Defensive coordinators that he had 3 REAL studdly wide receivers who were going to put some fear in his returning wide-outs. Those people who call the defenses against Coach Limgrover's offensive calls should start wondering IF things have changed even just a little bit.

Why do you feel the need to write a novel every time you post?
 

The defense had as much claim on that 4 game streak as Phil Nelson.

You can't give Nelson credit for the 4 game streak then absolve him of the abysmal games preceding and following those games. You can't do it. Yet I see it time and again on this board. Body of work. Body of work.

I will agree with Wren on something though; the lack of killer instinct on offense was very, very troubling. In particular the two minute drill was embarrassing. Giving up has to be *incredibly* deflating for the players. I will never understand that from Kill/Limegrover. The two minute drill HAS to improve this season if we are to compete with the big boys.

We should be better at every position on offense except perhaps fullback, but the JUCO guys have impressive film so I'm hopeful. I think they will take a big step forward. Limegrover is learning and adjusting just like all of us do in our professions. He admitted he screwed up the Iowa game. That takes a big man.
 

Why do you feel the need to write a novel every time you post?[/QUOTE

Why do some people post hideous, gross and obnoxious pictures on these pages? Why do you post a one line piece of nothing? Twitter messages are just irritating little twerts that are not even worth opening. Why, why, why?

Here is a very simple solution. IF one of my posts seems too long for your taste: just don't read it. Can't you figure that out? You have the power to either read or NOT read anything you like, dislike or think you will dislike.

A post is a LOT llike a picture. You can see how long it is just by opening it up. And a twitter is something I think really stinks and it is so short, and says SO little that it really isn't worth my tine to open it up. But, I won't whine about the people who twit and waste my time. I will only complain about pictures IF they are filled with sh/4t-stained images, really grotesque or totally crude visual images.

Why don't you just decide what you want to read and what you don't want to read? How difficult is that? Or, are you one of THOSE people who want to dictate exactly what you want to everyone else so that EVERYTHING will be the same?

So, don't read my posts. I'm not writing them for you any way. And, since you are being so pi$$y to me: why do you always post the way you post? Oh, wait: I have the power to ignore anything you post any time I want to. So: I guess what ever you decide you want to post is perfectly fine with me.

It's your choice to read...or not to read
 

The defense had as much claim on that 4 game streak as Phil Nelson.

You can't give Nelson credit for the 4 game streak then absolve him of the abysmal games preceding and following those games. You can't do it. Yet I see it time and again on this board. Body of work. Body of work.

I will agree with Wren on something though; the lack of killer instinct on offense was very, very troubling. In particular the two minute drill was embarrassing. Giving up has to be *incredibly* deflating for the players. I will never understand that from Kill/Limegrover. The two minute drill HAS to improve this season if we are to compete with the big boys.

We should be better at every position on offense except perhaps fullback, but the JUCO guys have impressive film so I'm hopeful. I think they will take a big step forward. Limegrover is learning and adjusting just like all of us do in our professions. He admitted he screwed up the Iowa game. That takes a big man.

SOME people here want to make this all about the quarterback all the time. From what I have seen, the Kill/Limey approach during the first three seasons was to "sell out" the quarterback/wide receiver position to focus on defense, building an offensive line and establishing a running game. They have even been more than willing to sacrifice dedicating putting a quarterback in place who can man the position for two or three seasons and build the skills and experience levels of the quarterbac/wide-out connections. My take is that Kill/Limey are patterning this job after the MSU approach. Build a solid to really good defensive unit, build a deep, strong physical offensive line and plug the runners in behind that line. Hence: during the first three seasons, it really didn't matter much who played the quarterback position because the quarterback was basically an EXTENSION of the stable of running backs who would attempt to advance the ball and pick up first downs RUNNING the ball. The goal has been to GET PHYSICAL...at ALL costs.

So, sorry to tell some of you, based upon my impression (only my impression, so you can feel free to totally discount it if you choose) Kill/limey have SOLD OUT the passing game to work to become a good, old fashioned PHYSICAL football team on offense and on defense. It IS a work in progress.

But, to say Nelson didn't play a fairly important role in that four game winning streak would be unacceptable to me. I wish Nelson was going to be around for the next couple of seasons with his growing levels of experience. I wish Leidner nothing but the best and I hope he can stay healthy as this work to make my Gophers more physical continues. But, through the first three seasons, the passing game has NOT been a major theme for the rebuilding of my Golden Gopher Football Team. While, it might have been nice for the short-run, it might NOT have been as good for the long run. Football the way it is played in the B1G may not be the most exciting...but...it is still dominated by the PHYSICAL teams (wisky, the OSU, MSU) and most likely always will be during the next ten, fifteen or twenty five years: or as long as football survives the CONCUSSIVE
injury era that we are just now discovering.

For the next few years it may not matter very much who the quarterback is, as long as the physicality of the offensive line, running game and the defensive unit continue to emerge as the STRENGTH of my Golden Gopher Football Team. Gopher quarterbacks will most likely be called upon to "give it up" physically by being a major factor in the running game. "Johnny Footbal" quarterback lovers or "pro-style" quarterback lovers will weep and gnash their teeth, but this staff is MUCH more focused on PHYSICAL football than it is on establishing a real "air show" type of offensive football team.

I think that is quite possibly a very good way for them to proceed at this point in time! I think it is a way to become and remain a bit more competitive in conference play, to get invited to a bowl game and to hopefully start winning some of the bowl games. It IS a way to BUILD a stronger program. To be a strong program, my Gophers MUST be a physically strong football team!
 

Why do some people post hideous, gross and obnoxious pictures on these pages? Why do you post a one line piece of nothing? Twitter messages are just irritating little twerts that are not even worth opening. Why, why, why?

Here is a very simple solution. IF one of my posts seems too long for your taste: just don't read it. Can't you figure that out? You have the power to either read or NOT read anything you like, dislike or think you will dislike.

A post is a LOT llike a picture. You can see how long it is just by opening it up. And a twitter is something I think really stinks and it is so short, and says SO little that it really isn't worth my tine to open it up. But, I won't whine about the people who twit and waste my time. I will only complain about pictures IF they are filled with sh/4t-stained images, really grotesque or totally crude visual images.

Why don't you just decide what you want to read and what you don't want to read? How difficult is that? Or, are you one of THOSE people who want to dictate exactly what you want to everyone else so that EVERYTHING will be the same?

So, don't read my posts. I'm not writing them for you any way. And, since you are being so pi$$y to me: why do you always post the way you post? Oh, wait: I have the power to ignore anything you post any time I want to. So: I guess what ever you decide you want to post is perfectly fine with me.

It's your choice to read...or not to read

old-man-cloud.jpg
 

UU, nothing has made me laugh yet today, until your reply to wren. Well done.
 

Why do you feel the need to write a novel every time you post?

Actually Wren, Die Hard has a great point. I feel I may want to hear what you have to say at some point, but I'll never know because I can't bring myself to invest the time needed to get through one of your posts.
 

Actually Wren, Die Hard has a great point. I feel I may want to hear what you have to say at some point, but I'll never know because I can't bring myself to invest the time needed to get through one of your posts.

Exactly! You would think by now he would have figured out that his approach turns people off. He is either a VERY slow learner or he is clueless as Chancy Gardner of Being There. On the other hand maybe he just likes to yell at clouds.

P.S. Like Dr.Don, thanks Unregistered User for the laugh.
 

Actually Wren, Die Hard has a great point. I feel I may want to hear what you have to say at some point, but I'll never know because I can't bring myself to invest the time needed to get through one of your posts.

Exactly, nobody is going to read all of that and the longer the post is the more likely it is that the reader will lose interest and miss the point. Its also just amusing as he is really the only poster on GH that feels the need to write a 5 paragraph essay just to get his simple point across. Most posters are able to manage with just a few lines max.
 

Also does anybody find it funny how he feels a need to always puts extra emphasis in certain words by capitalizing them? "..Read or NOT read.." "…IF one of…" "…are you one of THOSE people…" "…everything else so that EVERYTHING will be the same…" Obviously there isn't anything wrong with it and i don't have an issue with it, just funny to me.
 

limey gets some credit for MN having a 70% 4th down conversion rate with a 4th rate offense. he ain't the problem.
 

limey gets some credit for MN having a 70% 4th down conversion rate with a 4th rate offense. he ain't the problem.
 

limey gets some credit for MN having a 70% 4th down conversion rate with a 4th rate offense. he ain't the problem.

+1.

The opposing argument apparently is that he has forgot how to coach an offense since his days at NIU?
 

We did well on 4th downs, no doubt. We had decent success on 3rd down conversions. We even did well in the red zone, but the problem was we were one of the worst at making it to the red zone.

Our scoring offense was 11/12.

How many two minute dills consisted of 3 runs and a kneel? Settling for nothing or a long field goal try? How many plays did we get off quickly? None. It was slow motion. I understand the protect the lead mentality but I personally find that frustrating. Didn't NIU fans warn us about this. I suppose we shouldn't be surpised. I think Limegrover is smart and philosophies can evolve.

Did anyone else feel we took more chances on offense when Jerry Kill was on the mend? Just an interesting coincidence. Could it be he is the throttle limiter and not Limegrover?
 

Back to the topic.

Wren states "...the physicality of the offensive line, running game and the defensive unit continue to emerge as the STRENGTH of my Golden Gopher Football Team."

That, along with a solid kicking game, describes Killball.

This is the philosophy that Coach Kill brought from NIU to Minnesota. The QB will be involved in the running game. I think that was over done a bit more here than at NIU where their QB ran about 12 times a game, including scrambles, compared to Nelson and Leidner about 15 last year. With the emergence of the OL and maturation of the RB's, we could see that number decreased a bit.

Coach Kill recruits mobile QB's for the most part with the size and legs to be a part of the running game. NIU QB Jordan Lynch ran 21 times a game and was the second leading rusher in D1 last season and I think Coach Kill recruited him to NIU.
He and Braxton Miller are two of the best examples of QB's who perform at a high level in both running and passing. Then there are the Denard Robinson and Tyler Martinez types who excelled with their legs but failed to put up good numbers passing.

I buy into KillBball fully but he needs to put a QB and WR's on the field who are able to improve in passing efficiency and manage a completion ratio better than 51%. That aspect has lagged in progress compared to the other parts of the game and must get better for us to compete with the big boys. I hope for improvement this Fall but we may be another year away.
 




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