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victor04

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Yes this season was no smashing success, but to act as if what occurred was an utter failure, you are seriously mistaken.

Pitino came in as a very young coach, with much upside, and potential for downside of course. Right now we experiencing some growing pains, they are part of the process. The more we moan and grope about what a poor job Pitino is doing, the faster he is going to bolt if and when he does right the ship. Right now the basketball program needs some support, not people crying horror when there is a rough patch, especially this early in the process.

Even more so, if we win a few of those first tight games, this negativity on the board would be much different. We dont have the talent right now, patience, thats what true fans need.
 

victor04 said:
Yes this season was no smashing success, but to act as if what occurred was an utter failure, you are seriously mistaken.

Pitino came in as a very young coach, with much upside, and potential for downside of course. Right now we experiencing some growing pains, they are part of the process. The more we moan and grope about what a poor job Pitino is doing, the faster he is going to bolt if and when he does right the ship. Right now the basketball program needs some support, not people crying horror when there is a rough patch, especially this early in the process.

Even more so, if we win a few of those first tight games, this negativity on the board would be much different. We don't have the talent right now, patience, thats what true fans need.
Click to expand...

Good point but do you think other programs will take a break next year. Those who didn't make the dance or NIT at saying the same thing.
 

I'm all for giving Pitino a break. I really don't like turning over coaches in less than 5 or 6 years.

This doesn't mean I'm happy with this year though--and nor should anyone else be. I'm sure Pitino and the players themselves are not happy with the end result either. Just because some of us criticize doesn't mean we don't love this program (kind of like the wingnuts who think Obama doesn't "love" America because he is openly critical of it).

But I digress. I'm disappointed any year we don't make the tournament. Essentially, all we need is a .500 Big Ten record or one win over .500 to make it in--just finish in 7th or 8th place. The fact we can't do that consistently or even a majority of the time is concerning as a fan.
 

I get sick of people posting about "true fans" needing patience when they are upset about a horrible year that was completely the fault of the coaching staff. I have no idea why people give Pitino a pass on this. They would routinely skewer Tubby for failing in February when he was often dealing with the fall out of injuries, discipline and defections. This year's squad had no significant injuries, but did have discipline and defection issues, and people gloss over it like it is no big deal. Just have patience? For what? Another 6-12 B1G season?

The last thing I want to do is blow up the whole thing and start over, but I do not see this ending well. I just wonder how many "true fans" will be left if we have another 6-12 B1G season and miss the NCAA and NIT tourneys again?
 



victor04 said:
Yes this season was no smashing success, but to act as if what occurred was an utter failure, you are seriously mistaken.

Pitino came in as a very young coach, with much upside, and potential for downside of course. Right now we experiencing some growing pains, they are part of the process. The more we moan and grope about what a poor job Pitino is doing, the faster he is going to bolt if and when he does right the ship. Right now the basketball program needs some support, not people crying horror when there is a rough patch, especially this early in the process.

Even more so, if we win a few of those first tight games, this negativity on the board would be much different. We dont have the talent right now, patience, thats what true fans need.
Click to expand...

I agree, now is the time for patience and I'm viewing next season as the first year in a rebuilding process.
 

goldy93 said:
I get sick of people posting about "true fans" needing patience when they are upset about a horrible year that was completely the fault of the coaching staff. I have no idea why people give Pitino a pass on this. They would routinely skewer Tubby for failing in February when he was often dealing with the fall out of injuries, discipline and defections. This year's squad had no significant injuries, but did have discipline and defection issues, and people gloss over it like it is no big deal. Just have patience? For what? Another 6-12 B1G season?

The last thing I want to do is blow up the whole thing and start over, but I do not see this ending well. I just wonder how many "true fans" will be left if we have another 6-12 B1G season and miss the NCAA and NIT tourneys again?
Click to expand...

All of them will still be Gopher fans. And all of them will want better. At the end of next year people will have to decide what it looks like going forward just as much as by what the record looks like. If we go 6-12 and miss the NITs or hey maybe 9-9 and still miss the NCAAs but the players look like they are getting better and better- I think people hang in there. By then we will have next fall's class. If we have a nice PF in the fold and perhaps even Amir Coffey in addition to Hurt and the nucleus for the future is set- I think people will start to be optimistic. If by some miracle we go 10-8 and get in the dance you won't see Real Truth post here all year and dpdoll will be stuck in pissing matches over grammer.
 

goldy93 said:
I get sick of people posting about "true fans" needing patience when they are upset about a horrible year that was completely the fault of the coaching staff. I have no idea why people give Pitino a pass on this. They would routinely skewer Tubby for failing in February when he was often dealing with the fall out of injuries, discipline and defections. This year's squad had no significant injuries, but did have discipline and defection issues, and people gloss over it like it is no big deal. Just have patience? For what? Another 6-12 B1G season?

The last thing I want to do is blow up the whole thing and start over, but I do not see this ending well. I just wonder how many "true fans" will be left if we have another 6-12 B1G season and miss the NCAA and NIT tourneys again?
Click to expand...

Next year for the most part based on what the roster will look like will be a start over. Don't know about "true fans" but people should be prepared for likely another 6-12 conference season than a NCAA or NIT berth. This is the state of program right now and some patience is required.
 

bga1 said:
All of them will still be Gopher fans. And all of them will want better. At the end of next year people will have to decide what it looks like going forward just as much as by what the record looks like. If we go 6-12 and miss the NITs or hey maybe 9-9 and still miss the NCAAs but the players look like they are getting better and better- I think people hang in there. By then we will have next fall's class. If we have a nice PF in the fold and perhaps even Amir Coffey in addition to Hurt and the nucleus for the future is set- I think people will start to be optimistic. If by some miracle we go 10-8 and get in the dance you won't see Real Truth post here all year and dpdoll will be stuck in pissing matches over grammer.
Click to expand...

Um, grammar. :eek:
 



bga1 said:
All of them will still be Gopher fans. And all of them will want better. At the end of next year people will have to decide what it looks like going forward just as much as by what the record looks like. If we go 6-12 and miss the NITs or hey maybe 9-9 and still miss the NCAAs but the players look like they are getting better and better- I think people hang in there. By then we will have next fall's class. If we have a nice PF in the fold and perhaps even Amir Coffey in addition to Hurt and the nucleus for the future is set- I think people will start to be optimistic. If by some miracle we go 10-8 and get in the dance you won't see Real Truth post here all year and dpdoll will be stuck in pissing matches over grammer.
Click to expand...

+1
 

bga1 said:
All of them will still be Gopher fans. And all of them will want better. At the end of next year people will have to decide what it looks like going forward just as much as by what the record looks like. If we go 6-12 and miss the NITs or hey maybe 9-9 and still miss the NCAAs but the players look like they are getting better and better- I think people hang in there. By then we will have next fall's class. If we have a nice PF in the fold and perhaps even Amir Coffey in addition to Hurt and the nucleus for the future is set- I think people will start to be optimistic. If by some miracle we go 10-8 and get in the dance you won't see Real Truth post here all year and dpdoll will be stuck in pissing matches over grammer.
Click to expand...
I have said it before, if that happens, I will say that I was wrong. I have also promised you not to bring up the former coach's name. No attack is needed here. I just stated the fact that Richard might be looking for a place to go and I agree 100% with dpoll that Alabama's job is not a lateral move. I used to follow SEC like I do B1G now. Alabama is a program with lots of basketball history. There might be another school that will offer him a job and if I were him, I would take a pay-cut and run because next year will be ugly. Look at TT. They brought in 7 new players this year. They were predicted to finish last and they did. Gophers will finish last next year. No, I am not praying for that. I want the Gophers to make it as much as I want Belmont, Purdue, ..... make it.
 

I don't question Pitino's coaching skills. Perfect? No, he can clearly improve, but he has shown enough chops in his first two years for me to optimistic about the future. The recruiting, facilities, roster management aspect is where I'm not sold. I thought he did a fantastic job in his first few months here patching holes and bringing in an impact PG.

Last year's class was a rough one, despite the promising future of Mason, Konate, and possibly Diedhou. This year's class looks very promising, the 3 incoming guards plus Mason should make for a solid backcourt for years to come.

You simply can't win when in a majority of games every player on the opposing team is taller, stronger, faster, quicker, and a better shooter than what you have. That fact was easily witnessed in the recent OSU game. Pitino diplomatically said as much in several radio interviews. Kill said essentially the same thing in his first few seasons. The jury is far from out on how his career will end here. Support the facilities and anything else that will help us get players here, go to games, scrimmages, midnight madness, etc.
 

bga1 said:
If we go 6-12 and miss the NITs or hey maybe 9-9 and still miss the NCAAs but the players look like they are getting better and better- I think people hang in there.
Click to expand...

Well, it's not like we have much choice. We can either watch the team we have or doing something else with the time.

I will be OK if they go 9-9 (maybe even 8-10 or 7-11) in the conference next year and miss the NCAA tournament considering all the new faces. If they go 18-15, 17-16, or worse next year and get no postseason I won't be happy at all. It's not like they have no one of value coming back.
 



cjbfbp said:
Well, it's not like we have much choice. We can either watch the team we have or doing something else with the time.

I will be OK if they go 9-9 (maybe even 8-10 or 7-11) in the conference next year and miss the NCAA tournament considering all the new faces. If they go 18-15, 17-16, or worse next year and get no postseason I won't be happy at all. It's not like they have no one of value coming back.
Click to expand...

Okay, here's a scenario: They struggle early in the Big Ten season again and even some in the non-conference. But part way into the season the frosh start to step up, Mcbrayer looks like a he might be a big scorer someday, Dorsey is a Tum Tum or better and Konate looks like a Big Ten center, Nwankwo looks like he might be a beast in years ahead and things are getting better. They finish reasonably strong to go 18-15 - maybe they make the NIT, maybe not. Meanwhile you also know they have signed a second straight solid class of Coffey, Hurt and some other guy to be named. How do you feel?

It's a process that may not be totally measured by wins and losses in the here and now.
 


victor04 said:
Yes this season was no smashing success, but to act as if what occurred was an utter failure, you are seriously mistaken.

Pitino came in as a very young coach, with much upside, and potential for downside of course. Right now we experiencing some growing pains, they are part of the process. The more we moan and grope about what a poor job Pitino is doing, the faster he is going to bolt if and when he does right the ship. Right now the basketball program needs some support, not people crying horror when there is a rough patch, especially this early in the process.

Even more so, if we win a few of those first tight games, this negativity on the board would be much different. We dont have the talent right now, patience, thats what true fans need.
Click to expand...

Agreed. Reminds me of when Brewster was coach. He came in and decided to run a whole new offense, he needed a few years to get his people in and coached up.
 

At first blush, I'm guessing 4-6 B1G wins next season. The following year I'm hoping we can sneak into the dance. Year 5 we should be positioned to make a run IMHO.
 

bga1 said:
Okay, here's a scenario: They struggle early in the Big Ten season again and even some in the non-conference. But part way into the season the frosh start to step up, Mcbrayer looks like a he might be a big scorer someday, Dorsey is a Tum Tum or better and Konate looks like a Big Ten center, Nwankwo looks like he might be a beast in years ahead and things are getting better. They finish reasonably strong to go 18-15 - maybe they make the NIT, maybe not. Meanwhile you also know they have signed a second straight solid class of Coffey, Hurt and some other guy to be named. How do you feel?

It's a process that may not be totally measured by wins and losses in the here and now.
Click to expand...

I'd rather win 3 conference games with the young kids than win 5 (is that what we won this year?) with a group of under-performing Seniors.
 

bga1 said:
Okay, here's a scenario: They struggle early in the Big Ten season again and even some in the non-conference. But part way into the season the frosh start to step up, Mcbrayer looks like a he might be a big scorer someday, Dorsey is a Tum Tum or better and Konate looks like a Big Ten center, Nwankwo looks like he might be a beast in years ahead and things are getting better. They finish reasonably strong to go 18-15 - maybe they make the NIT, maybe not. Meanwhile you also know they have signed a second straight solid class of Coffey, Hurt and some other guy to be named. How do you feel?
Click to expand...

Better! I can live with that.
 

For crying out loud....we still have 3 scholarships to fill......how can u even attempt to prrdict next season....
 

I don't expect miracles - I just want to see some signs of progress and forward momentum.

This program needs something good to happen- like signing a significant recruit - not another prospect who might be good in 2 years. They need someone - either one of the recruits already signed, or a late Spring signing - to come in here and exceed expectations while becoming an immediate contributor. I want to be able to turn on BTN or ESPN and heard people talking about how that FR or JUCO at the U of M is one of the surprise players in the conference.

That is what this program needs. And, I submit it needs a dose of honesty from the Coach and the AD. If Pitino honestly believes next year is a rebuilding year, and they really don't expect to be a tournament team, then come out and say so. Kill's first few years, he was very smart at the way he lowered expectations for the team, making them look like over-achievers when they had some success. I think Pitino needs to sit down with Kill and have a long talk about dealing with the public, dealing with the media, and managing expectations.
 


The-Real-Truth said:
I have said it before, if that happens, I will say that I was wrong. I have also promised you not to bring up the former coach's name. No attack is needed here. I just stated the fact that Richard might be looking for a place to go and I agree 100% with dpoll that Alabama's job is not a lateral move. I used to follow SEC like I do B1G now. Alabama is a program with lots of basketball history. There might be another school that will offer him a job and if I were him, I would take a pay-cut and run because next year will be ugly. Look at TT. They brought in 7 new players this year. They were predicted to finish last and they did. Gophers will finish last next year. No, I am not praying for that. I want the Gophers to make it as much as I want Belmont, Purdue, ..... make it.
Click to expand...

So the coach at Minnesota should take a pay cut and run because next year is going to be ugly? Your guy down at Tech though facing the same type of ugly this year should not run? More nonsense from you but we know your agenda.

Heard Teague say on Barreiro's show he understands next season will be the "reset" season under Pitino. You don't have to like that or agree with it. I would assume Teague has also conveyed that message to Pitino and if that assumption is true no need for Pitino to cut and run as you would suggest.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
I don't expect miracles - I just want to see some signs of progress and forward momentum.


That is what this program needs. And, I submit it needs a dose of honesty from the Coach and the AD. If Pitino honestly believes next year is a rebuilding year, and they really don't expect to be a tournament team, then come out and say so. Kill's first few years, he was very smart at the way he lowered expectations for the team, making them look like over-achievers when they had some success. I think Pitino needs to sit down with Kill and have a long talk about dealing with the public, dealing with the media, and managing expectations.
Click to expand...


I agree somewhat of what you said here, about tampering expectations, but at the same time basketball is much different than football. It takes longer to turn around a football team, compared with a basketball team. Yes in all likelihood Pitino's team next year will not be stellar, in terms of wins and losses that is, but next years team will have a lot of fresh new faces and potential for growth, you never know how good a team like that will be. And I do think downplaying your teams ability can be helpful at times, Kill did do a good job at it.
 

bga1 said:
Okay, here's a scenario: They struggle early in the Big Ten season again and even some in the non-conference. But part way into the season the frosh start to step up, Mcbrayer looks like a he might be a big scorer someday, Dorsey is a Tum Tum or better and Konate looks like a Big Ten center, Nwankwo looks like he might be a beast in years ahead and things are getting better. They finish reasonably strong to go 18-15 - maybe they make the NIT, maybe not. Meanwhile you also know they have signed a second straight solid class of Coffey, Hurt and some other guy to be named. How do you feel?

It's a process that may not be totally measured by wins and losses in the here and now.
Click to expand...

I agree, wins and losses dont tell the whole story. I am looking for progress, next years team will be a true testament to Pitino's ability in developing talent. Excited to see it grow, thats what I like about the process, not just the wins and losses.
 


goldy93 said:
I get sick of people posting about "true fans" needing patience when they are upset about a horrible year that was completely the fault of the coaching staff. I have no idea why people give Pitino a pass on this. They would routinely skewer Tubby for failing in February when he was often dealing with the fall out of injuries, discipline and defections. This year's squad had no significant injuries, but did have discipline and defection issues, and people gloss over it like it is no big deal. Just have patience? For what? Another 6-12 B1G season?

The last thing I want to do is blow up the whole thing and start over, but I do not see this ending well. I just wonder how many "true fans" will be left if we have another 6-12 B1G season and miss the NCAA and NIT tourneys again?
Click to expand...

What constitutes a "true fan"? Is there a membership card that's revoked if you don't dedicate a large chunk of your weekend afternoons or weekday evenings watching an utterly bad brand of basketball like the one Minnesota played in stretches this season. One can only remain a "true fan" if they watch every minute of every game even if they have better things to do? Why would someone want to subject themselves to that? I don't understand. Just because someone devotes more time and energy into a program when the team is winning doesn't exclude them from being "true fans." If the Gophers want good attendance, win games. If the Gophers want strong TV ratings, win games. If the Gophers want to sell more merchandise, win games. If the Gophers want better facilities, win games...you get the point.

I can see where you are coming from by calling out the bandwagon people, but every program has these. I would also bet that more than 50% of fans are of this variety in one way or another. More fans are going to travel to watch an NCAA game than a CBI game. Why? Because the NCAA game is more important than a CBI game. It doesn't make those who decide to not travel to the CBI bad fans, it just means they are prioritizing. That's life.

Pitino does not deserve to even be mentioned as a potential hot-seat candidate for at least another couple of years. He still has time to turn things around.
 

Where would he run to ? No one is clamoring to hire him. He has a job to do here before anyone would want him. patience. HE might do very well here.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
I don't expect miracles - I just want to see some signs of progress and forward momentum.

This program needs something good to happen- like signing a significant recruit - not another prospect who might be good in 2 years. They need someone - either one of the recruits already signed, or a late Spring signing - to come in here and exceed expectations while becoming an immediate contributor. I want to be able to turn on BTN or ESPN and heard people talking about how that FR or JUCO at the U of M is one of the surprise players in the conference.

That is what this program needs. And, I submit it needs a dose of honesty from the Coach and the AD. If Pitino honestly believes next year is a rebuilding year, and they really don't expect to be a tournament team, then come out and say so. Kill's first few years, he was very smart at the way he lowered expectations for the team, making them look like over-achievers when they had some success. I think Pitino needs to sit down with Kill and have a long talk about dealing with the public, dealing with the media, and managing expectations.
Click to expand...

Let me see... They could have 7 new players on the team next year. I am going with the chance it might be a rebuilding year.

We are in the process of remaking the program under a completely different style of play. It will take a few years to get there. It is obvious that Pitino is a good coach, but he has things to learn. He knows he messed up by counting on a kid who didn't have the patience to wait for playing time, he knows he took a flyer on a couple of international kids and got punished by not getting to work with them, he knows the limits of a D2 player he brought in to plug a hole, he knows he needs better recruits. He knows that not making the tournament is a major failure.

Yes, it would have been nice for him to learn those things at another program and then get hired by the U. But sometimes you have to grab a coach like him early and let him grow on the job. Give him a chance.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

alchemy2u said:
Let me see... They could have 7 new players on the team next year. I am going with the chance it might be a rebuilding year.

We are in the process of remaking the program under a completely different style of play. It will take a few years to get there. It is obvious that Pitino is a good coach, but he has things to learn. He knows he messed up counting on a kidwho didn't have the patience to wait for playing time, he knows he took a flyer on a couple of international kids and got punished by not getting to work with them, he knows the limits of a D2 player he brought in to plug a hole, he knows he needs better recruits. He knows that not making the tournament is a major failure.

Yes, it would have been nice for him to learn those things at another program and then get hired by the U. But sometimes you have to grab a coach like him early and let him grow on the job. Give him a chance.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

That's pretty much the way I see it also. I like what they have done recruiting wise so far this year, and think Coach Young may be the real deal. IMO to judge a staff on player development takes 4 or 5 years. I want the Gophers to win as much as anyone, but feel now is the time for patience.
 

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