Let’s dream for a second that Oturu returns. ...

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If Oturu decides to come back, this coming season just got wayyyy more interesting. Would be a lot more expectation/hopefully fun!

I think Coyle's baseline expectations for Pitino vary based on Oturu coming back or not.
 

Holy Man said:
I'll offer nuance. There's more to it than just making the tournament. I could see him making it and still being dismissed if there isn't evidence of a stronger infrastructure being developed, i.e. establishing recruiting systems and relationships, etc.

No way he is retained missing the tournament with an intact roster, but making it may not assure it either.
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I would completely agree with this. "Making the tournament" is often seen as the be-all end-all for a successful season, or the reason for keeping or firing a coach. This year, it appeared that 9 or 10 B1G teams were going to make the tournament, which is basically equivalent to making a bowl game in football (which many would consider not much of an accomplishment).

To me, it's much more important what the trajectory of the program appears to be, not necessarily what the success of one season is. But to the OP, to consider next season a success if Oturu stays, I would say a bare minimum would be an 11-9 or 12-8 conference record. With that said, I don't think expectations (at least in regard to Pitino keeping his job) should change whether Oturu stays or leaves. Pitino has skated by on endless excuses to this point. I think he's used up all his excuses over 7 years, and if Oturu leaves and he has no viable front court, that's on him, not Oturu.
 

forever a gopher said:
I would completely agree with this. "Making the tournament" is often seen as the be-all end-all for a successful season, or the reason for keeping or firing a coach. This year, it appeared that 9 or 10 B1G teams were going to make the tournament, which is basically equivalent to making a bowl game in football (which many would consider not much of an accomplishment).

To me, it's much more important what the trajectory of the program appears to be, not necessarily what the success of one season is. But to the OP, to consider next season a success if Oturu stays, I would say a bare minimum would be an 11-9 or 12-8 conference record. With that said, I don't think expectations (at least in regard to Pitino keeping his job) should change whether Oturu stays or leaves. Pitino has skated by on endless excuses to this point. I think he's used up all his excuses over 7 years, and if Oturu leaves and he has no viable front court, that's on him, not Oturu.
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I think you bring up a good point. The year we fired Tubby he advanced to the round of 32 in the NCAAs but it was clear how we were playing and the stagnancy of Tubby's teams. It was like reaching a peak.

However, Oturu is such a difference maker I don't see how you couldn't vary expectations with him or without him. I could see the argument if you're saying expectations are at an Oturu level, with or without Oturu. I actually do feel as though Coyle is thinking that way. Pitino is really gonna have to surprise some people with the teams level of success this year or he's gone. NCAA tournament berth or maybe even R32 will automatically grant Pitino the job going forward.

I do think it's fair that circumstances influenced Coyle's decision this year. Next year he will be looking to make a move. He has that decided in his mind now. Pitino will have to be good enough to change that, which I believe is a higher bar than just NCAA. Gotta be special.
 


I've been a Pitino defender for a long time, but merely making the tournament, especially if Oturu returns, shouldn't save his job. If Oturu is back, we need to win a couple games.
 


I’m just grateful that Gopher Hole has its own resident stalker to keep all of us in line. I’m sure we’ll get even more of his infinite wisdom now that most of us are cooped up inside our homes!
 


BarnBurner said:
Quite the OP. Yet another backhanded slap at RP.
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Stalker, I don’t think it’s the end of the world that Pitino is back. I’m not all worked up about it at all, like you see from others on here.

But yes, the way I phrased the question, I would be in the camp that he needs to go after next season if it’s NCAA-less season. And I say that as a guy that mostly has pretty much supported him. Have you seen me ranting on here about his job status?

How about you, can you answer the question as presented?
 

As far as Oturu returning - someone listed about 6 different mock drafts. I think 3 or 4 had him going somewhere in the 1st round, but at least 2 had him going in the second round. So, it all depends on what advice he's getting. If he goes through the process, and he's told late 1st round or second round, I suppose there is a chance he returns.

and IF Oturu returns, the Gophers certainly need to make the NCAA at a minimum.

But beyond that - can't have the late-game melt-downs. I want to see a team that is playing better at the end of the season than it was at the start of the season. a team that shows growth. it's not just the win-loss number, or KenPom. The eye test matters.
 




MplsGopher said:
Richie nine lives does not deserve Oturu returning.

He was set to be fired. That is what he deserved. Oturu was (may still be) set to join the NBA.

Richie didn't deserve to be forced to stay on and maybe Oturu staying on.
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Now you with the "Richie" shit? I see your unhealthy obsession with Craig Smith has resulted in ED and you just have nothing more intelligent to offer than calling our coach a child's name as an insult. Sad.
 





60's Guy said:
If Oturu comes back and we keep all our other guys healthy and eligible why wouldn’t we win 15 Big Ten games? Who is oh wow so good????
We could even add one or two really nice players if we all get out of quarantine.

We’ll be Top 20 in country good if we have Oturu and our group is healthy all year.
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No. No we won't.
 

Keyser Söze said:
Sweet 16 should be minimum expectation if Oturu returns. We will have more guard depth/talent with addition of Mashburn and I expect at least a modest jump from Ihnen.
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The Keyser! Richard's biggest cheerleader!

Next year... right? Anyone deluded enough to think we're a sweet sixteen next year with Daniel doesn't really understand where the program and roster are at.
 

John Galt said:
The Keyser! Richard's biggest cheerleader!

Next year... right? Anyone deluded enough to think we're a sweet sixteen next year with Daniel doesn't really understand where the program and roster are at.
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I've made multiple posts about wanting a coaching change and was hoping we'd hire Beilein or Craig Smith this offseason, so not sure I qualify as "Richard's biggest cheerleader".

I'm sure you're one of those people who expected us to be bad in the 2016-17 season because of our record from the previous season. Young teams that lose a lot of close games and don't lose any good players tend to do better the following year. Oturu and Carr would potentially be the best duo in the Big Ten next season. We lost close games because of exhaustion, but the addition of Mashburn will allow Carr to get some rest. Ihnen is also developing at a rapid pace and should be a much better player next year. If you can't see that this team would be much better next year with the return of Oturu, then you just aren't thinking objectively at all.
 

John Galt said:
The Keyser! Richard's biggest cheerleader!

Next year... right? Anyone deluded enough to think we're a sweet sixteen next year with Daniel doesn't really understand where the program and roster are at.
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JG, As someone very interested in recruiting, it seems like you are making some awful big assumptions regarding this offseason:

1. That we will not get anything significant from Mashburn or Mitchell.
2. That we will not make any quality pickups through spring recruiting/transfers.
3. That Ihnen, Williams and (to a lesser extent) Freeman won't experience a significant jump from their freshmen to sophomore years.
4. That Carr won't continue to improve his game in the offseason - not to mention he won't be sole ballhandler next year.
5. That Gabe won't come back to the middle in regards to his shooting - Freshman year was one positive extreme and sophomore was a negative extreme.
6. That Omersa won't continue to improve as a defender and rebounder.

Now, I'm not saying ALL these things will happen. But you're saying NONE of them will happen with the way you're talking. Let's remember, most of our losses were close this season and could have gone either way. So for people to think that if Oturu came back AND a few of these other things (above) happened, that we would win more of those games we lost...that seems like a pretty freaking reasonable and logical thought.

I guess we'll see if you're currently in that kind of a place by your response.
 

SelectionSunday said:
Stalker, I don’t think it’s the end of the world that Pitino is back. I’m not all worked up about it at all, like you see from others on here.

But yes, the way I phrased the question, I would be in the camp that he needs to go after next season if it’s NCAA-less season. And I say that as a guy that mostly has pretty much supported him. Have you seen me ranting on here about his job status?

How about you, can you answer the question as presented?
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Oh SS, I really love it when you call me a stalker. Thank you! And yes, you are worked up - go ahead and admit it. Your post above tells the tale. And yes, keeping honesty a part of GH is a passion that I take seriously.

Fact is, your OP was a shot at RP. I didnt say you said anything about it being the end of the world that RP is the coach next season.

You know the answer, and so do all the other posters. Right? The word from the AD made it pretty clear, no?

I do not need to see next season to make a determination, as I stated my position some time ago. I am sure you read it.
 


WriterGoph said:
JG, As someone very interested in recruiting, it seems like you are making some awful big assumptions regarding this offseason:

1. That we will not get anything significant from Mashburn or Mitchell.
2. That we will not make any quality pickups through spring recruiting/transfers.
3. That Ihnen, Williams and (to a lesser extent) Freeman won't experience a significant jump from their freshmen to sophomore years.
4. That Carr won't continue to improve his game in the offseason - not to mention he won't be sole ballhandler next year.
5. That Gabe won't come back to the middle in regards to his shooting - Freshman year was one positive extreme and sophomore was a negative extreme.
6. That Omersa won't continue to improve as a defender and rebounder.

Now, I'm not saying ALL these things will happen. But you're saying NONE of them will happen with the way you're talking. Let's remember, most of our losses were close this season and could have gone either way. So for people to think that if Oturu came back AND a few of these other things (above) happened, that we would win more of those games we lost...that seems like a pretty freaking reasonable and logical thought.

I guess we'll see if you're currently in that kind of a place by your response.
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1. Mitchell appears to be a project. Mashburn is a 6'2" shooting guard. I'm skeptical that Mashburn can score at the B1G level and be a primary ball handler.
2. Our last 2 spring recruiting cycles we've added Alihan Demir and Brock Stull. And now we have a coach that is firmly on the hot seat. Based on the names being thrown out for who the staff is looking at, I have little to no confidence that an impact player will be added this spring.
3. Freeman couldn't get time this year when he was desperately needed. Nor could Greenlee. Williams played sparingly. Ihnen is the best hope for making a jump. Overall, the 2019 class wasn't impressive, despite many people claiming how promising it was and how highly it was rated.
4. I like Carr, he's the type of player we need, but he's been in college already for several years. I'm not sure how much he can improve.
5. Gabe gets the most out of his athletic ability, but he's limited. He didn't have a few bad games. He had a bad year.
6. Omersa is a fun guy to have on the team - but offensively he's from the stone ages.
 

Fair, but definitely very skeptical responses. I'd say the results will lie somewhere in the middle when it's all said and done. 3 of the 6 would reasonable to expect.

1. Mitchell appears to be a project. Mashburn is a 6'2" shooting guard. I'm skeptical that Mashburn can score at the B1G level and be a primary ball handler. Mitchell is definitely more advanced offensively than Freeman was, so I'd expect him to play some minutes. Mashburn was already talking in his Strib interview about playing with Carr and being a ballhandler and being able to relieve Carr.
2. Our last 2 spring recruiting cycles we've added Alihan Demir and Brock Stull. And now we have a coach that is firmly on the hot seat. Based on the names being thrown out for who the staff is looking at, I have little to no confidence that an impact player will be added this spring. This is fair, but I guess we won't know for a couple months.
3. Freeman couldn't get time this year when he was desperately needed. Nor could Greenlee. Williams played sparingly. Ihnen is the best hope for making a jump. Overall, the 2019 class wasn't impressive, despite many people claiming how promising it was and how highly it was rated. Williams played a good amount and was very solid on D; his shooting is not as far along as Ihnen, but I'd argue he was a more well-rounded and physically-ready player than Ihnen.
4. I like Carr, he's the type of player we need, but he's been in college already for several years. I'm not sure how much he can improve. I would assume with his playing less minutes, he should have more energy down the stretch and he also has time to figure out how to beat the hedges in the offseason.
5. Gabe gets the most out of his athletic ability, but he's limited. He didn't have a few bad games. He had a bad year. He also had a really great year his freshman year. So a skeptic is pointing to this year being his norm, but I think a reasonable person would recognize that he is only 20 and will likely have some kind of a bounce back.
6. Omersa is a fun guy to have on the team - but offensively he's from the stone ages. Omersa can be a contributor with defense and rebounding. He was leaps better this year than his freshman year. Not everyone needs to be a scorer.
 


WriterGoph said:
Fair, but definitely very skeptical responses. I'd say the results will lie somewhere in the middle when it's all said and done. 3 of the 6 would reasonable to expect.

1. Mitchell appears to be a project. Mashburn is a 6'2" shooting guard. I'm skeptical that Mashburn can score at the B1G level and be a primary ball handler. Mitchell is definitely more advanced offensively than Freeman was, so I'd expect him to play some minutes. Mashburn was already talking in his Strib interview about playing with Carr and being a ballhandler and being able to relieve Carr.
2. Our last 2 spring recruiting cycles we've added Alihan Demir and Brock Stull. And now we have a coach that is firmly on the hot seat. Based on the names being thrown out for who the staff is looking at, I have little to no confidence that an impact player will be added this spring. This is fair, but I guess we won't know for a couple months.
3. Freeman couldn't get time this year when he was desperately needed. Nor could Greenlee. Williams played sparingly. Ihnen is the best hope for making a jump. Overall, the 2019 class wasn't impressive, despite many people claiming how promising it was and how highly it was rated. Williams played a good amount and was very solid on D; his shooting is not as far along as Ihnen, but I'd argue he was a more well-rounded and physically-ready player than Ihnen.
4. I like Carr, he's the type of player we need, but he's been in college already for several years. I'm not sure how much he can improve. I would assume with his playing less minutes, he should have more energy down the stretch and he also has time to figure out how to beat the hedges in the offseason.
5. Gabe gets the most out of his athletic ability, but he's limited. He didn't have a few bad games. He had a bad year. He also had a really great year his freshman year. So a skeptic is pointing to this year being his norm, but I think a reasonable person would recognize that he is only 20 and will likely have some kind of a bounce back.
6. Omersa is a fun guy to have on the team - but offensively he's from the stone ages. Omersa can be a contributor with defense and rebounding. He was leaps better this year than his freshman year. Not everyone needs to be a scorer.
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I enjoyed reading the points, counter points. Thanks guys. I will add that I think Freeman will surprise us a bit with his contributions next year and I also think we may see a little more on the offensive side from Omersa. Omersa is very athletic and I would guess the coaches are working hard with him to improve that part of his game. Its too bad we will have to wait 7 months to see how this all plays out.
 

BarnBurner said:
Simply stated - based on the results of the team over 7 seasons, it is (was) time for a new coach.

The superstar ad we have wouldn't make a move. Now, the results are, clearly, in the ad's court.
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Thank you.
 




SelectionSunday said:
Here’s the question I would ask point blank everyone on GH.

Let’s assume Oturu returns and there are no significant departures/injuries/suspensions, etc., from the current & incoming roster.

Should Pitino continue on as Gophers coach with anything short of the NCAA Tournament next season?

Thanks, I’ll hang up and listen.
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With Oturu:

Make the NCAA's = Expected. Pitino returns but his seat may still be warm in 2022 depending on particulars.
Miss the NCAA's = Big disappointment. Pitino is out.

Without Oturu:

Make the NCAA's = Big surprise. Pitino buys himself at least two more years.
Miss the NCAA's = As expected. Pitino is still fired. Only possible exception is a 1996 level snubbing by the committee.
 

BarnBurner said:
Now that you have my position, what is your ss?
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BB, I answered in a prior post, but I’ll repeat it:

I don’t think it’s the end of the world that Pitino is back. I’m not all worked up about it at all, like you see from others on here.

But yes, the way I phrased the question, I would be in the camp that he needs to go after next season if it’s NCAA-less season. And I say that as a guy that mostly has pretty much supported him.
 

SelectionSunday said:
BB, I answered in a prior post, but I’ll repeat it:

I don’t think it’s the end of the world that Pitino is back. I’m not all worked up about it at all, like you see from others on here.

But yes, the way I phrased the question, I would be in the camp that he needs to go after next season if it’s NCAA-less season. And I say that as a guy that mostly has pretty much supported him.
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The terms mostly and pretty much pride clarity , ss. That provides clarity on your stance, historically.
 

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