Kill is running against wind guys.

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wels0081 said:
Ok, so here's the thing.

I like Coach Kill, I think he's got a good shot at winning a lot of football games at Minnesota.

That said, I have a hard time bringing myself to commit to Minnesota when playing as a high school student in a damn video game.

If you have offers from a school like Michigan, Ohio State, or even Wisconsin--- there has to be something outside of football that gets you to the U at this point. For some, it's clear they don't feel sentimental ties to the university or pride in their home state. So what else do we sell? Urban campus? Playing time?
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You sell a program that is run ethically, is staffed with coaches dedicated to building character, whose roster is made up of good students and good citizens.
 

FanSinceTheFifties said:
You sell a program that is run ethically, is staffed with coaches dedicated to building character, whose roster is made up of good students and good citizens.
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But what if you want to win football games?
 

You can win games with a program like that. (You left off the smiley) :)
 


RodentRampage said:
What was the game-day atmosphere before Alvarez was hired?
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The game-day atmosphere, always excepting the 3 year period of the coach-who-cannot-be-named, was good, but much higher on the party scale and lower on the football intensity scale than it is now. Again, absent those three years, attendance was very good, but the game, as now, was part of a much larger game-day social scene. The difference now is that you have a generation of fans who don't remember the years in the desert and expect (v. being grateful for) a very good team. IMO, the intensity can become out of control when fans can't be happy with an 8-4 or 9-3 season. Really? I remember when we cheered "Rose Bowl" for the first first down on the game - and sometimes that wasn't until the second half. Some people forget that these are just 18-24 year old kids and it is still just a game (and this is coming from someone who goes to the bowl game every year, took a new job with the understanding that I would be gone for that and the Frozen Four each year, and basically arranges my fall around football).

As for tailgating, it absolutely exists in Madison, but is decentralized, in parking lots and yards and anywhere you can set up a grill. I have been tailgating for 20+ years; it is part of our game day tradition. I enjoy introducing the next generation to the joy of Badger Football. Several times last year, the next generation outnumbered we old farts.

Minnesota can definitely get to the Wisconsin-Iowa-MSU level. It has a different location to sell, but not everyone wants to go to school in a college town. To me, the biggest question is whether The U's administration is really ready to embrace football as a partner in the university experience. Donna Shalala's support at Madison cannot be overstated.
 



Bisondad said:
My opinion only, but you guys are way to worried about the whole national recruiting BS. I think coach Kill can and will build a program right here in Minnesota. This whole recruit thing is overblown. When the University of South Dakota can come in and beat the Gophers, and every one of their kids was recruited as a Division II athlete, and every Gopher, (more than twice the amount of scholarships as the South Dakota team) were Division 1 recruits, well, tells the whole story. Kill will build the program and the rest of this BS will take care of itself.
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Are you serious? Yes you're right we should recruit d-2 kids so we can model are program after South Dakota!
 

Kratos3 said:
Win first. Everything else will fall into place.
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No offense, but someone always posts this crap and it drives me nuts. "Just win games and everything will work out!" No *&^!#*&^!#*&^!#*&^!#! Every team we play wants to win games, but somebody's got to win and somebody's got to lose. So what's going to make us a winner? That's what this thread is about, and saying "win games" adds less than nothing to the conversation.
 

FreakyDeke said:
No offense, but someone always posts this crap and it drives me nuts. "Just win games and everything will work out!" No *&^!#*&^!#*&^!#*&^!#! Every team we play wants to win games, but somebody's got to win and somebody's got to lose. So what's going to make us a winner? That's what this thread is about, and saying "win games" adds less than nothing to the conversation.
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Areed, Deke. Such profound thought is put into some peoples' comments.
 



TAW said:
Minnesota can definitely get to the Wisconsin-Iowa-MSU level. It has a different location to sell, but not everyone wants to go to school in a college town. To me, the biggest question is whether The U's administration is really ready to embrace football as a partner in the university experience. Donna Shalala's support at Madison cannot be overstated.
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Totally agree.
 

FreakyDeke said:
No offense, but someone always posts this crap and it drives me nuts. "Just win games and everything will work out!" No *&^!#*&^!#*&^!#*&^!#! Every team we play wants to win games, but somebody's got to win and somebody's got to lose. So what's going to make us a winner? That's what this thread is about, and saying "win games" adds less than nothing to the conversation.
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Coach Kill knows what it takes to win. Recruit athletes that fit in the system. Find kids who want to be here. Coach 'em to play their position the way they want them to play it. S&C. Go to class. Support($) from administration. Do those things and we'll win.

As far as recruiting, it's gonna be like this until we start winning as a program. Kids want to a.) stay relatively close to home, and b.) win. We don't have a ton of B1G quality for a.), so we need to go the b.) route. You can talk about national championships from the 40s, Fortune 500 companies in Minneapolis, being located in a city that blows Iowa City away in just about everyway possible outside of football, weather, lakes, MOA, and whatever else. Kids who have their choice of D1 schools will go somewhere they can win. Of course, there are exceptions(Maroney), but those are rare. It's much more likely that we need to find the Decker, Eslinger, Spaeth-type exceptions, and the hope is that these coaches can find those kids.

Give it more than 1 year, as well.

Better?
 

Kratos3 said:
Coach Kill knows what it takes to win. Recruit athletes that fit in the system. Find kids who want to be here. Coach 'em to play their position the way they want them to play it. S&C. Go to class. Support($) from administration. Do those things and we'll win.

As far as recruiting, it's gonna be like this until we start winning as a program. Kids want to a.) stay relatively close to home, and b.) win. We don't have a ton of B1G quality for a.), so we need to go the b.) route. You can talk about national championships from the 40s, Fortune 500 companies in Minneapolis, being located in a city that blows Iowa City away in just about everyway possible outside of football, weather, lakes, MOA, and whatever else. Kids who have their choice of D1 schools will go somewhere they can win. Of course, there are exceptions(Maroney), but those are rare. It's much more likely that we need to find the Decker, Eslinger, Spaeth-type exceptions, and the hope is that these coaches can find those kids.

Give it more than 1 year, as well.

Better?
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IC has Chick-fil-A.It is about 10 min away from Kinnick Stadium. It is a selling point to get future players.
 

Kratos3 said:
Coach Kill knows what it takes to win. Recruit athletes that fit in the system. Find kids who want to be here. Coach 'em to play their position the way they want them to play it. S&C. Go to class. Support($) from administration. Do those things and we'll win.

As far as recruiting, it's gonna be like this until we start winning as a program. Kids want to a.) stay relatively close to home, and b.) win. We don't have a ton of B1G quality for a.), so we need to go the b.) route. You can talk about national championships from the 40s, Fortune 500 companies in Minneapolis, being located in a city that blows Iowa City away in just about everyway possible outside of football, weather, lakes, MOA, and whatever else. Kids who have their choice of D1 schools will go somewhere they can win. Of course, there are exceptions(Maroney), but those are rare. It's much more likely that we need to find the Decker, Eslinger, Spaeth-type exceptions, and the hope is that these coaches can find those kids.

Give it more than 1 year, as well.

Better?
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That's the other quote I hate. "Kill knows what it takes to win." So do I, recruit better players and/or execute better on the field than the opponent and mostly end the game with more points. Knowing how to build a program does not ensure success. I do completely agree we need to wait more than a year. Likely 4 or 5 before we really see what can be done here, maybe longer. One thing Kill is doing correctly is going back to playing cream puffs in the non-conference schedule. Mase used this strategy to great success. Brewster decided he would rather play big name opponents and then forgot to have the team show up when they played the cream puffs. You know, if we ended 4-8, and 0-8 in the Big Ten, I'd still see that as a step forward. Granted I hope we can do much better, but I don't see any reason to believe it. As is the case every year, we'll know more in a month. If we go out to Vegas and slap up the Running Rebels, then we'll know we have something. If we're kicking a fg with 20 seconds left to either win or lose, we'll know it is going to be a long year.
 



Sparlimb said:
That's the other quote I hate. "Kill knows what it takes to win." So do I, recruit better players and/or execute better on the field than the opponent and mostly end the game with more points. Knowing how to build a program does not ensure success. I do completely agree we need to wait more than a year. Likely 4 or 5 before we really see what can be done here, maybe longer. One thing Kill is doing correctly is going back to playing cream puffs in the non-conference schedule. Mase used this strategy to great success. Brewster decided he would rather play big name opponents and then forgot to have the team show up when they played the cream puffs. You know, if we ended 4-8, and 0-8 in the Big Ten, I'd still see that as a step forward. Granted I hope we can do much better, but I don't see any reason to believe it. As is the case every year, we'll know more in a month. If we go out to Vegas and slap up the Running Rebels, then we'll know we have something. If we're kicking a fg with 20 seconds left to either win or lose, we'll know it is going to be a long year.
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No, you don't know what it takes to win. You're just aware of some out-lines. If you know what it takes to win, you won't be here. You'll be in multi-millions business. You may also know how to run successful company like Apple as well. Create the products that customers want, promote heavily, invest in R&D, and beat the Wall street forecasts. There you have it. Why am I here? I should be in Cupertino. I also don't like cup-cake schedule. Winning against cup cake teams is like seeking Pyrrhic victories.
 

Sparlimb said:
That's the other quote I hate. "Kill knows what it takes to win." So do I, recruit better players and/or execute better on the field than the opponent and mostly end the game with more points. Knowing how to build a program does not ensure success. I do completely agree we need to wait more than a year. Likely 4 or 5 before we really see what can be done here, maybe longer. One thing Kill is doing correctly is going back to playing cream puffs in the non-conference schedule. Mase used this strategy to great success. Brewster decided he would rather play big name opponents and then forgot to have the team show up when they played the cream puffs. You know, if we ended 4-8, and 0-8 in the Big Ten, I'd still see that as a step forward. Granted I hope we can do much better, but I don't see any reason to believe it. As is the case every year, we'll know more in a month. If we go out to Vegas and slap up the Running Rebels, then we'll know we have something. If we're kicking a fg with 20 seconds left to either win or lose, we'll know it is going to be a long year.
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It's not a bad starting point, though.
 

Johnnyboy18 said:
Are you serious? Yes you're right we should recruit d-2 kids so we can model are program after South Dakota!
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I am absolutley serious. Point is the program is much more important than the recruits. if it was the other way around, Gophers beat South Dakota 100 - 0. I think what Kill is doing is right on the money and i beleive he will win here. Guess only time will tell.
 


Kratos3 said:
It's not a bad starting point, though.
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For sure it is the CORRECT starting point. We've seen what happens when you don't have that. And I do think it takes a little bit different of a plan to be successfull depending on where you are coaching. So Kill certainly may be the right guy with the right disposition (although not a given), so we're just going to have to watch this grand experiment play out. I have more confidence in him that I had in Brew, but that's not saying much.
 



This is not a definition of tailgating-
'As for tailgating, it absolutely exists in Madison, but is decentralized, in parking lots and yards and anywhere you can set up a grill.' You are trying wayyyy too hard to make it all fit. It's ok, most of the Big Ten is not a Lambeau or Arrowhead or even Lincoln NE.
 

Sparlimb said:
For sure it is the CORRECT starting point. We've seen what happens when you don't have that. And I do think it takes a little bit different of a plan to be successfull depending on where you are coaching. So Kill certainly may be the right guy with the right disposition (although not a given), so we're just going to have to watch this grand experiment play out. I have more confidence in him that I had in Brew, but that's not saying much.
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This isn't Mississippi or Nevada. We have higher expectations for English.
 


wait!what? said:
This is not a definition of tailgating-
'As for tailgating, it absolutely exists in Madison, but is decentralized, in parking lots and yards and anywhere you can set up a grill.' You are trying wayyyy too hard to make it all fit. It's ok, most of the Big Ten is not a Lambeau or Arrowhead or even Lincoln NE.
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Yes, tailgating can only be done in a big parking lot next to a stadium. Heaven forbid it happens in yards instead of a big chunk of asphalt.
 

cfb120 said:
Yes, tailgating can only be done in a big parking lot next to a stadium. Heaven forbid it happens in yards instead of a big chunk of asphalt.
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If its in your yard, it's a party, but not tailgating.
 


Can we Kill this thread? It's sickening along with its Subject Heading.
 

RodentRampage said:
If its in your yard, it's a party, but not tailgating.
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It's referred to as "lawning". In the event that you actually have no grass, it's called "yarding". And yes, you are correct, it is not tailgaiting.
 

OK, we can all have our own opinion as to what constitutes "tailgating," but pardon me if I don't take the opinion of Viking/Gopher fans as the ultimate ruling on the term. To me, tailgating is any party centered out of one's car before/after a sporting event. The location doesn't matter, it is the actual activity.

FTR, I have never heard of "yarding" or "lawning." Are these terms unique to Minnesota? They sure didn't exist when I lived there 35 years ago.
 


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