Jerry Kill: "This year should be the best that Minnesota has had."

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Bob_Loblaw said:
Shocking that the nuance of my post was AGAIN lost on you. Quick, I think someone is making fun of your man crush on the Western Michigan board, go defend his honor.
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The irony is that you're doing the same thing for people who are no longer apart of the Gophers. Really weird maybe you should become a fan of Buttgers and Northwest Kansas State.
 

Johnnyboy18 said:
What do we call you guys who still cry about Kill and Claeys?
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God, you are uniquely stupid. That is what you got from my post? A post that didn't insult Fleck in the slightest? LOL.

You're a joke.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
God, you are uniquely stupid. That is what you got from my post? A post that didn't insult Fleck in the slightest? LOL.

You're a joke.
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No, I'm just wondering what to call you guys that are still defending the Kill regime and actions by the man himself after he quit.
 

Johnnyboy18 said:
The irony is that you're doing the same thing for people who are no longer apart of the Gophers. Really weird maybe you should become a fan of Buttgers and Northwest Kansas State.
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The difference is that I'm a Fleck fan. I'm a Gopher fan. I'm delusional about reality. Go look at my post, I said that Fleck should get credit WHEN he develops some of the unheralded walk-ons/inexperienced players that Claeys signed.

Only an absolute imbecile, like yourself, could read my post and think it was defending Claeys/Kill and ripping on Fleck.

Now, look at your posts. You now are ripping on a guy for quitting because of health reasons and defending your man crush. It's pathetic.

If you're not smart enough to know the difference between your hero worship and my posts, I don't know what to tell you.
 



I think you're hero worshiping and have a man crush on Kill and Claeys which is really weird to me. I am also a big fan of Kill you aren't the only one!
 


Bob_Loblaw said:
But you're judging how these players turned out, I'm sure there are some current underclassmen who will emerge under Fleck.

As far as these guys:
AJ Barker was a walk-on who hadnt done a thing. It would be the equivalent of us saying that Fleck inherited Morse.
Rabe - Kill recruit
Aaron Hill - - Another walk-on. It would be like saying that Fleck inherited Blake Weber
Engel - Believe he is a Kill guy. His first year at the U was 2011 (same as Kill's)
Henry - Again - a walk-on who hadn't contributed much before Kill arrived
Bennett - Really? I like Bennett as a former Gopher, but if he is your returning starting RB, that cupboard feels pretty bare
Hageman - kudos to Brew for landing this guy, but he was in a world of trouble before Kill arrived
Carter - see Hageman
Vereen - When Kill arrived, Vereen was the butt of jokes for his play at CB. He turned into a really nice player, but the day Kill was hired, I don't think a lot of Gopher fans would have pointed towards Vereen.

I think if we did this same exercise in 5 years and compared the people Claeys/Kill left with the people Brew left it would illustrate, even more, how bare the cupboard was when Kill arrived.
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I tried not to list the ones who later did well, but it was late & I didn't have the energy to research it all. Every coach has to fill holes, every year, that was nothing unique to Kill. He added a couple WR's in Moulton & G'Shun Harris, John Rabe as a back-ups to McGarry & I'm sure a couple more. He also coached some guys up, as happens as players mature. Mason did, Brew did & I'm sure Fleck will too.

A few more talented guys Kill inherited that I forgot were Juwahn Edwards, Gary Tinsley, Spencer Reeves & Collin McGarry. There was also some experienced depth guys like Shady Salamon & Chrysten Lewis.

- Barker & Engel were bad examples as Kill had to bring in some Jucos to bolster the ranks.
- Rabe, was the backup to Collin McGarry, so I should have said Kill inherited Sr Collin McGarry
- Hill was a back-up. I forgot that Kill inherited Sr's Gary Tinsley & Spencer Reeves.
- Henry was a back-up to Eric Lair. Lair was not an all conference guy, but certainly a capable starter his Sr year.
- Bennett, yes really. Hard to claim the cubbard was bare at RB when the coach inherited a Sr, who was a 3 year starter coming into the season. You could do a lot worse.
- Hageman & Carter were talented players, who needed a kick in the pants. Virtually any coach would be happy to find them on the roster he's taking over.
- Vereen, yes players get better as they mature.

Kill didn't inherit a Roe Bowl roster, but I just don't think it was the "dumpster fire" people like to remember it as. Compare it to the pile of dog crap Brew inherited, it ain't even close. The "culture" of the team was the bigger problem with guys not going to school & smoking too much dope.
 

leadpipegopher said:
He quit Western Michigan, quit for a better opportunity, but he still quit. What difference does it make that it was after their best season ever? Your boy quit.
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I'm trying to stay put of the nonsense, but your post is preposterous.
 



Johnnyboy18 said:
I think you're hero worshiping and have a man crush on Kill and Claeys which is really weird to me. I am also a big fan of Kill you aren't the only one!
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How have I hero worshiped either of these guys? I ripped on Claeys all of the time. I like Jerry, but I had issues with how he did things. I constantly blame Kill and Claeys for not developing a QB or WRs. It was a failure of theirs.

Every Gopher fan should at least like them, we are in a much better place now than we were post-Brewster. But I wasn't sold on Claeys as the future of the program. I had a huge problem with how he managed the end of the Michigan game two years ago, I thought going for two against Oregon State was dumb, etc. I even said that I would have understood if Coyle would have moved in another direction. However, I did and still do have a big problem with Coyle using the incident as a Trojan Horse to make a move. I thought it was cowardly and frankly, put PJ in a tough spot. That said, I support PJ. I like all of the recruits he is bringing in and I love the direction of the program. I'll repeat it, I feel fortunate that we ended up with PJ as our coach. I could do without all his fanboys, but either way.

I have had three posts that have set certain people off that really are a great representation of the Fleck hero worship.

(1) I had a post praising the Michigan OL for his athleticism. I compared him to Hageman (athletic guy, big build, grow into being a dominant player), however, I made the mortal sin of saying something about him hitting the weight room. It set Fleckophiles off. It was truly bizarre. Even before he de-committed, I went out of my way to talk about being excited about him on the roster. I would have said the same thing had he been a Kill/Claeys recruit!

(2) I think the headphones rule is silly. I don't care about it, but I don't really get it. If it makes you feel better, I like Manny's (Fleck's choice) more than Fogo (Claeys' choice) . . . another fight broke out on that unimportant issue.

(3) Today's post. . . re-read it. I think it's entirely fair to Fleck. I simply was saying that those underclassmen who were part of Kill's "cupboard" haven't yet been added to Fleck's "cupboard" because it's too soon to tell. I then went on to say both the recruiting coach and the developing coach should get credit when those guys turn out. That. . . somehow. . . is. . . worshiping. . . Kill/Claeys? Ok!
 


Costa Rican Gopher said:
I tried not to list the ones who later did well, but it was late & I didn't have the energy to research it all. Every coach has to fill holes, every year, that was nothing unique to Kill. He added a couple WR's in Moulton & G'Shun Harris, John Rabe as a back-ups to McGarry & I'm sure a couple more. He also coached some guys up, as happens as players mature. Mason did, Brew did & I'm sure Fleck will too.

A few more talented guys Kill inherited that I forgot were Juwahn Edwards, Gary Tinsley, Spencer Reeves & Collin McGarry. There was also some experienced depth guys like Shady Salamon & Chrysten Lewis.

- Barker & Engel were bad examples as Kill had to bring in some Jucos to bolster the ranks.
- Rabe, was the backup to Collin McGarry, so I should have said Kill inherited Sr Collin McGarry
- Hill was a back-up. I forgot that Kill inherited Sr's Gary Tinsley & Spencer Reeves.
- Henry was a back-up to Eric Lair. Lair was not an all conference guy, but certainly a capable starter his Sr year.
- Bennett, yes really. Hard to claim the cubbard was bare at RB when the coach inherited a Sr, who was a 3 year starter coming into the season. You could do a lot worse.
- Hageman & Carter were talented players, who needed a kick in the pants. Virtually any coach would be happy to find them on the roster he's taking over.
- Vereen, yes players get better as they mature.

Kill didn't inherit a Roe Bowl roster, but I just don't think it was the "dumpster fire" people like to remember it as. Compare it to the pile of dog crap Brew inherited, it ain't even close. The "culture" of the team was the bigger problem with guys not going to school & smoking too much dope.
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I hear you, I wasn't trying to nitpick your post.

I just feel like if you do this same exercise in 5 years with Fleck's cupboard, it'll look much better than what Kill walked into.

Bennett - - We can agree to disagree. I think virtually every coach in the country will inherit a RB of his caliber (probably didn't start as much because our running game was atrocious), when they get a job.

As far as what Mason left, you'll get no argument from me there. He left garbage (but similar level of garbage as to what Brew left).

Mase left -
Amir Pinnix - starting RB
Justin Valentine - starting FB
Eric Decker
Marcus Sherels
Ernie Wheelwright
Dom Barber
Nate Triplett
Hightower
Mike Sherels
John Shevlin
Willie VanDeSteeg
Lee Campbell
Eric Small
Ned Tavale
Tow-Arnett
Jack Simmons
 

leadpipegopher said:
Supposed to be, but it's no more preposterous than saying Kill quit.
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Kill did quit & he quit mid-season while the team was struggling. Did he quit because of his health, probably. I'll always have a doubt in the back of my mind though.
 




Bob_Loblaw said:
Shocking that the nuance of my post was AGAIN lost on you. Quick, I think someone is making fun of your man crush on the Western Michigan board, go defend his honor.
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You really need to look up nuance in the dictionary. It is OK to believe someone is an idiot on an internet message board, but it is a special kind of vanity to think they would agree with you if only they "got you". It is possible your opponent is a complete idiot, and it is also possible that you really aren't capable of winning a subtle argument.
 


1. I could care less about who recruited Mayfield to call him a weight room project is dumb. He plays basketball and from what I read weighs 250-260 pounds. Is rather an lineman in a zone scheme come in at 270-285 pounds than have them be 330 pounds because they aren't as athletic as the former.

2. You thought the team wore headphones while working out previously which they didn't because no football team wears headphones while doing team workouts. The only difference is they can't wear headphones while walking in the football facility which who honestly cares about?

I don't hero worship Fleck I do like him more as the Gopher head coach than Claeys. That's all I cared about when the move was made and they made an upgrade at coach IMO.

This whole BS about Fleck insinuated Kill's culture was bad is hogwash. He mentions culture in probably every interview he's done since he's taken over as coach and probably before he was here. It's quite literally his schtick. To say Kill is upset at Fleck about that is naive and dumb IMO. He felt betrayed because Fleck took over after one his boys was screwed over in his eyes. He's also salty that Fleck isn't praising what he left him. He should stop talking about Minnesota because it makes him seem petty and childish.
 

gregbrady said:
Anybody that knows golf knows that you can go from a 30 to a 9 handicap with a lot of hard work and maybe not a lot of talent. It's going from a 9 to a scratch that is very difficult and much harder. Hope we get the talent and that PJ can coach them up!




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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But the golf coach that took you from a 30 to a 9 somehow doesnt get any credit but the couch that takes you from a 9 to a 2 boasts about the progress of the student. The fact is it took both coaches and a student willing to work hard to accomplish the improvement and the ladder coach needs to give a lot of credit to the first coach. It is very hard to go from a 30 to a 9, very hard.
 





Johnnyboy18 said:
1. I could care less about who recruited Mayfield to call him a weight room project is dumb. He plays basketball and from what I read weighs 250-260 pounds. Is rather an lineman in a zone scheme come in at 270-285 pounds than have them be 330 pounds because they aren't as athletic as the former.

2. You thought the team wore headphones while working out previously which they didn't because no football team wears headphones while doing team workouts. The only difference is they can't wear headphones while walking in the football facility which who honestly cares about?

I don't hero worship Fleck I do like him more as the Gopher head coach than Claeys. That's all I cared about when the move was made and they made an upgrade at coach IMO.

This whole BS about Fleck insinuated Kill's culture was bad is hogwash. He mentions culture in probably every interview he's done since he's taken over as coach and probably before he was here. It's quite literally his schtick. To say Kill is upset at Fleck about that is naive and dumb IMO. He felt betrayed because Fleck took over after one his boys was screwed over in his eyes. He's also salty that Fleck isn't praising what he left him. He should stop talking about Minnesota because it makes him seem petty and childish.
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I get that you'd be comfortable with a 270 lbs lineman, but I highly doubt Mayfield isn't close to 290-300 lbs, which meant that he gained 55 lbs in the WEIGHT ROOM. It's hilarious that sets you off. Care to make a wager on what Mayfield is playing at by his Junior season? We'll see how dumb I am then.

I never said they wear headphones during team workouts. But get this, players also work out on their own occasionally. During the season, they are often given a the workout from the strength and conditioning coach and working out on their own, depending on their class schedules. At least that is how it was done with Kill, Mason, and Brew. During those times, they were often wearing headphones. There are many things they do in the facility outside of team workouts, and I think a rule against headphones is silly. But you're right, I honestly don't care about it. I honestly don't care about the collared shirt rule. I honestly don't care about most of those rules. That said, a lot of Fleckophiles were singing the praises of those rules, rationale people laughed (not because they were against the rules, but because of the crowd that was SO pro the rules).

You absolutely worship Fleck. You might not realize that you do, but you come to his defense like you have a school boy crush.
 

Oh, lord. I suppose it's possible this entire thread is an April Fool's joke, but sadly, I suspect most of the people posting here are serious.

The truth, as it is in most things, lies somewhere in the middle.

The program that Fleck inherited is not great - but it's not terrible. It's somewhere in the middle. I hate to bring it up again, but the Gophers did win 9 games last year. Most - (not all) coaching changes are made when a program is struggling. Most new coaches do not inherit a program coming off a 9-win season, including a bowl win upset victory. AT the same time - (trying to be fair here), most coaches do not inherit a program that had a sex scandal and players being expelled. This is a fairly unique situation.

I can see both sides of the debate. I can understand why Kill thinks the work he and Claeys did is being undervalued by Fleck. And I can understand that Fleck defines the term "culture" much differently than many other people do. This is essentially two people (Kill and Fleck) from different generations, different outlooks, and different styles. It's not surprising they might not understand each other.

AND - I will say this. Some people on this board are trying too hard to defend Kill. Some people on this board are trying too hard to defend Fleck. That has led to people from both sides making regrettable statements. I would like to encourage everyone to take a deep breath and dial it back a notch.

I wish I could just step into a cryogenic chamber and emerge 10 minutes before kickoff for the season opener. All of the BS is making it very hard for me to be excited or optimistic about Gopher Football. At least I have the Twins to look forward too...................................does anyone have any razor blades?
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
I get that you'd be comfortable with a 270 lbs lineman, but I highly doubt Mayfield isn't close to 290-300 lbs, which meant that he gained 55 lbs in the WEIGHT ROOM. It's hilarious that sets you off. Care to make a wager on what Mayfield is playing at by his Junior season? We'll see how dumb I am then.

I never said they wear headphones during team workouts. But get this, players also work out on their own occasionally. During the season, they are often given a the workout from the strength and conditioning coach and working out on their own, depending on their class schedules. At least that is how it was done with Kill, Mason, and Brew. During those times, they were often wearing headphones. There are many things they do in the facility outside of team workouts, and I think a rule against headphones is silly. But you're right, I honestly don't care about it. I honestly don't care about the collared shirt rule. I honestly don't care about most of those rules. That said, a lot of Fleckophiles were singing the praises of those rules, rationale people laughed (not because they were against the rules, but because of the crowd that was SO pro the rules).

You absolutely worship Fleck. You might not realize that you do, but you come to his defense like you have a school boy crush.
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I'm comfortable with high school recruits coming in at 275 pounds because most teams with any amount of depth will redshift freshman lineman not a difficult concept. Apparently that's too hard to understand for you sadly.

I don't care about any of the rules. It builds discipline which can't be bad for a football team.

You absolutely worship Kill/Claeys. You might not realize that you do, but you come to their defense like you have a school boy crush.
 

Costa Rican Gopher said:
Kill did quit & he quit mid-season while the team was struggling. Did he quit because of his health, probably. I'll always have a doubt in the back of my mind though.
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Its been in the back of my mind too. I mean for him to take a job that freaking fast again in the coaching game? Why couldn't he have returned to serve with Clayes if that was the case?

Fleck leaving Western Michigan is a totally different deal and anyone who argues any different is being completely preposterous.
 

Johnnyboy18 said:
I'm comfortable with high school recruits coming in at 275 pounds because most teams with any amount of depth will redshift freshman lineman not a difficult concept. Apparently that's too hard to understand for you sadly.

I don't care about any of the rules. It builds discipline which can't be bad for a football team.

You absolutely worship Kill/Claeys. You might not realize that you do, but you come to their defense like you have a school boy crush.
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John, you don't understand nuance. He is subtle, and you are a screaming turd. Know your role.
 

Donkeypunch Jones said:
Its been in the back of my mind too. I mean for him to take a job that freaking fast again in the coaching game? Why couldn't he have returned to serve with Clayes if that was the case?

Fleck leaving Western Michigan is a totally different deal and anyone who argues any different is being completely preposterous.
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That would have been the ideal situation for Claeys - always looking over your shoulder for the man you replaced that lost the job due to a medical condition.
 

Johnnyboy18 said:
I'm comfortable with high school recruits coming in at 275 pounds because most teams with any amount of depth will redshift freshman lineman not a difficult concept. Apparently that's too hard to understand for you sadly.
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True, when they recruit an OL and that OL comes into the program at around 275, most any college in the land would redshirt them, because they want to get them on their nutrition plan and get them in the weight room to add bulk and strength. Thus they would be a weight room project! :)
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
I hear you, I wasn't trying to nitpick your post.

I just feel like if you do this same exercise in 5 years with Fleck's cupboard, it'll look much better than what Kill walked into.

Bennett - - We can agree to disagree. I think virtually every coach in the country will inherit a RB of his caliber (probably didn't start as much because our running game was atrocious), when they get a job.

As far as what Mason left, you'll get no argument from me there. He left garbage (but similar level of garbage as to what Brew left).

Mase left -
Amir Pinnix - starting RB
Justin Valentine - starting FB
Eric Decker
Marcus Sherels
Ernie Wheelwright
Dom Barber
Nate Triplett
Hightower
Mike Sherels
John Shevlin
Willie VanDeSteeg
Lee Campbell
Eric Small
Ned Tavale
Tow-Arnett
Jack Simmons
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Offensively I'd call it a draw. Brew had to break in a Freshman QB & a horrid OL, but he had some talent at WR & TE.

On D, it ain't even close though. It was so bad that Mason had gone out & recruited NINE Jucos on D! Seven of them were expected to start. When the coaching change happened they all bailed except Logan Uu, who never contributed. Then we lost our Defensive Captain in DJ, plus likely starters at DE & Safety in Daniels & Massey, plus a back-up DE in Robert McField (who the Mason staff had never even run a background check on) when it turned out he was wanted for armed robbery back in Missouri.

It was so bad that Desi Steib, Jamal Harris, Duran Cooley, Ryan Collado (as a true Freshman), Kevin Mannion & Todd Meisel were all major contributors. The talent level was so bad in the D backfield (aside from Dom Barber) that Fatty Thomas & Kyle Theret were starters. Brew had to bring in Derek Onwauchi, who was a dog in his own right, to start at DE opposite Willie V, because Lee Campbell was manhandled so badly. At LB, Mike Sherels & John Shevlin were both sub-par B1G LB's when they were healthy & by the time Brew got there they were both full-on gimps. Eric Small was a Brew recruit & an immediate upgrade over every DT he inherited. Marcuis Sherels was a walk-on WR who'd never played a snap in 2007. Triplett had never played meaningful snaps outside of special teams.

Give me the talent Kill inherited over what Brew did, any day of the week.
 

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