Jerry Kill: "This year should be the best that Minnesota has had."

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short ornery norwegian said:
Oh, lord. I suppose it's possible this entire thread is an April Fool's joke, but sadly, I suspect most of the people posting here are serious.

The truth, as it is in most things, lies somewhere in the middle.

The program that Fleck inherited is not great - but it's not terrible. It's somewhere in the middle. I hate to bring it up again, but the Gophers did win 9 games last year. Most - (not all) coaching changes are made when a program is struggling. Most new coaches do not inherit a program coming off a 9-win season, including a bowl win upset victory. AT the same time - (trying to be fair here), most coaches do not inherit a program that had a sex scandal and players being expelled. This is a fairly unique situation.

I can see both sides of the debate. I can understand why Kill thinks the work he and Claeys did is being undervalued by Fleck. And I can understand that Fleck defines the term "culture" much differently than many other people do. This is essentially two people (Kill and Fleck) from different generations, different outlooks, and different styles. It's not surprising they might not understand each other.

AND - I will say this. Some people on this board are trying too hard to defend Kill. Some people on this board are trying too hard to defend Fleck. That has led to people from both sides making regrettable statements. I would like to encourage everyone to take a deep breath and dial it back a notch.

I wish I could just step into a cryogenic chamber and emerge 10 minutes before kickoff for the season opener. All of the BS is making it very hard for me to be excited or optimistic about Gopher Football. At least I have the Twins to look forward too...................................does anyone have any razor blades?
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The best post in this entire thread.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
Of course you judge it by the entire roster. I'm not saying that you shouldn't.

If you read my last sentence, I said that the proper way to judge the roster that Claeys left Fleck would be in 5 years. I wasn't saying that those walk-ons don't count, I am just saying that CURRENTLY we have no way to judge the underclassmen that Claeys left Fleck.

The reality is that both coaches should get credit for a lot of these players (Brew for bringing them in and Kill for developing them). I'll say the same thing for underclassmen that end up emerging for Fleck, part of their eventual success will be attributed to Fleck.

I know what the cupboard is bare means, I am just saying that it is impossible to judge how much was left for Fleck at this point because we those unheralded walk-ons and inexperienced underclassmen have not developed yet.

I know you Fleckophiles like to get really pissy when anything is said that could be perceived as an insult to your man crush, but again, I wasn't insulting him. But re-read what I said, I don't think it's an unfair point.
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I'm more just defending what Brew left Kill with, not really evaluating what Fleck was left with yet. Although I do think Kill is exaggerating on both what he started with and what Fleck is starting with, as far as actual roster talent. Obvious 9 wins, vs 3 wins or whatever it was it a big difference, but the number of wins the previous year doesn't really have much bearing on the next year.
 


Anyone else stil waiting for dpod to show us these quotes of Fleck "talking smack" publicly about Kill leaving behind a "poor culture" that Fleck had to take over?? I know I am. If he does though I know they're made up since Fleck never said it.
 

beatles said:
Anyone else stil waiting for dpod to show us these quotes of Fleck "talking smack" publicly about Kill leaving behind a "poor culture" that Fleck had to take over?? I know I am. If he does though I know they're made up since Fleck never said it.
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I would love them he seemed very convinced!
 


Bobby L used to be one of my favorite posters, but he's become borderline psychotic trying to separate everyone into either the Kill/Claeys or Fleck camp. It's almost like he's viewing any negative comment as a veiled shot at Kill or Claeys.
 

John Galt said:
Bobby L used to be one of my favorite posters, but he's become borderline psychotic trying to separate everyone into either the Kill/Claeys or Fleck camp. It's almost like he's viewing any negative comment as a veiled shot at Kill or Claeys.
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Did something... happen to him?

It's weird.
 

leadpipegopher said:
Western Michigan?
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Using this logic, Kill is a bigger quitter as he upgraded head coaching jobs 4 times to become the Gopher coach.

Is this the way this board is going to be now?
Old regime vs new? How many of those arguing for old regime are trolls vs actual fans of Gopher football.

Jerry is wrong on this roster being poised for their best season in recent times. If he was in Fleck's shoes he would be lowering expectations even more than Fleck in my opinion.
 

btowngopher said:
I'm more just defending what Brew left Kill with, not really evaluating what Fleck was left with yet. Although I do think Kill is exaggerating on both what he started with and what Fleck is starting with, as far as actual roster talent. Obvious 9 wins, vs 3 wins or whatever it was it a big difference, but the number of wins the previous year doesn't really have much bearing on the next year.
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You and others are viewing it too narrow. Look at the entire picture and see the amount of discipline Kill and crew brought to a ragtag band of athletes. Brew brought some good athletes here, but he didn't develop them and they didn't do well academically. You have to be impressed with the grades and the discipline that Fleck inherited with the current players.
 



MennoSota said:
You and others are viewing it too narrow. Look at the entire picture and see the amount of discipline Kill and crew brought to a ragtag band of athletes. Brew brought some good athletes here, but he didn't develop them and they didn't do well academically. You have to be impressed with the grades and the discipline that Fleck inherited with the current players.
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You call them ragtag and lacking discipline, but they didn't get into a sex scandal like the group shortly before and the group shortly after them did. Also where did you come up with the idea that they didn't do well academically?
 

John Galt said:
Bobby L used to be one of my favorite posters, but he's become borderline psychotic trying to separate everyone into either the Kill/Claeys or Fleck camp. It's almost like he's viewing any negative comment as a veiled shot at Kill or Claeys.
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I'm really glad you wouldn't do that JG.


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Maybe someone can explain what a Fleckophile is? If I'm a Fleckophile because I'm excited about Gopher football with PJ as our head coach, guilty as charged.

Most Gopher fans were on the Brewster train and excited by the talk of bringing Gopher nation to Pasadena. People were excited when Kill started and heard him talk about how hard we were going to work. Why shouldn't we be excited now when we just hired one of the top up and coming coaches in the country?
 




I think it's when you defend him against random character assassinations and talk about the roster for next year isn't the best in the last 5 years.
 

HoustonTXGopher said:
But the golf coach that took you from a 30 to a 9 somehow doesnt get any credit but the couch that takes you from a 9 to a 2 boasts about the progress of the student. The fact is it took both coaches and a student willing to work hard to accomplish the improvement and the ladder coach needs to give a lot of credit to the first coach. It is very hard to go from a 30 to a 9, very hard.
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I see your point, but I was referring to a different type of athlete altogether. Kill & staff did a great job with the kids he recruited. I have a feeling Fleck & staff are aiming at a better/different type of football player that I hope & pray that they can coach up as good or better than Coach Kill & maybe we compete for B1G titles.


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btowngopher said:
You call them ragtag and lacking discipline, but they didn't get into a sex scandal like the group shortly before and the group shortly after them did. Also where did you come up with the idea that they didn't do well academically?
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How many were charged with a crime? You want to tell us?
Second, the GPA went way up under Kill and the graduation rate went up significantly. UMN is rated near the top today. That was not the case under Brew.
 

Jerry Kill: "This year should be the best that Minnesota has had."

I think GiI is on to something that there are folks on both ends of the spectrum, but if you can't see the Flecksters are the root of the divide on here, you just aren't looking.


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Spoofin said:
I think GiI is on to something that there are folks on both ends of the spectrum, but if you can't see the Flecksters are the root of the divide on here, you just aren't looking.


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Can you define Flecksters Spoofin?
 

Johnnyboy18 said:
Can you define Flecksters Spoofin?
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It's like porn - easy to know it when you see it. If I was to say PJF had a gray hair it would take you 1-minute to deny it, make up some lie about something, and tell us all that Kill had 2 and TC had 20. Fleckster.


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Spoofin said:
I think GiI is on to something that there are folks on both ends of the spectrum, but if you can't see the Flecksters are the root of the divide on here, you just aren't looking.


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Please elaborate
 

Spoofin said:
It's like porn - easy to know it when you see it. If I was to say PJF had a gray hair it would take you 1-minute to deny it, make up some lie about something, and tell us all that Kill had 2 and TC had 20. Fleckster.


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So since you can't define it I'm just going to go with fans who like Fleck more than Claeys. Guess that makes most Gopher fans Flecksters. You can jump in the boat or be a Claeyster up to you.
 

Spoofin said:
I'm really glad you wouldn't do that JG.


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It's OK , he's like an an attorney on the interwebs and stuff. I'm six feet tall,and good with pliers.
 

bigticket1 said:
That would have been the ideal situation for Claeys - always looking over your shoulder for the man you replaced that lost the job due to a medical condition.
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If he already retired due to not being able to handle the full load of being a HC then where is the threat? You think the current coach at Rutgers is thinking the same thing?
 

MennoSota said:
How many were charged with a crime? You want to tell us?
Second, the GPA went way up under Kill and the graduation rate went up significantly. UMN is rated near the top today. That was not the case under Brew.
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I never said anything about a crime, so why bring that up? Academics under Mason were a joke and rose considerably under Brewster, including a year where the gophers led the conference in academic all americans. APR rose under Brewster as well. The only thing that hurt grad rates under Brewster were all the transfers, which count against grad rates.
 



First off, I'm excited to see what Fleck can do as coach. I'm simply trying to defend Kills POV which I feel is legitimate but probably a bit off-base as he's lumping in Fleck with Coyle/Kaler based on poor choices of words.

I think it's fair to disagree as people can look at the same data, e.g. "Culture talk" and come to conclusions 180 degrees apart. Look at how many people viewed Claeys tweet inappropriately. The venom towards Killhere and elsewhere on the web is much greater than anything that's been said about Fleck and his ahem, culture. I don't quite understand it but I've never been into cult-culture.

Kill, IMO, wasn't just talking about the roster. He was talking about fighting for and winning large salary raises for his staff. He was talking about the facilities. He helped push through the facilities that Fleck is now able to sell. I'm sure there are things none of us are privy to that went on behind the scenes; battles he went through.
 


MennoSota said:
How many were charged with a crime? You want to tell us?
Second, the GPA went way up under Kill and the graduation rate went up significantly. UMN is rated near the top today. That was not the case under Brew.
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So you think divorce is a horrific thing, but running a train on a girl that wasn't deemed a crime is ok...
 

It's threads like these that virtually prove that 20% of posters are in no way, shape, or form Gopher football fans. Don't engage them, and they whither on the vine.

Quote them in your responses and validate them, and they will flourish.

Ignore list them, and kickoff is 150 sweet days away...
 

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