Jeff Goodman: "I think Tubby Smith is gonna be Gone"

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bleedsmaroonandgold said:
I think another big comparison point is that Kill is still playing with mostly Brewster recruits. Tubby has had time to clear out all of Monson's players and has entirely Tubby-recruited players on his roster. I think the hope and assumption is still alive that once Kill has players who he picked to fit his system, things will be better. Conversely, Tubby's seasons after getting rid of all of the Monson recruits have not been appreciatively better than his seasons playing with Monson's teams, so that leads to the question of what is going to change.
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This is very true. However, Tubby can play the lack-of-prctice-facility card for his recruiting. This will help him land another job also. People will give him credit to win this many games without top recruits and a practice facility.

Go Gophers
 

Holy Man said:
The only problem with "people close to the program" is that could include you and me. We go to games, maybe sometimes on the road, so we are "close to the program" and have no more information than Goodman or Rosen. This is meaningless gossip. If his bosses think he should be gone, he will be gone. If not, then he won't. If they are doing their jobs, they have been examining issues related to the program that go beyond wins and losses and will make their decisions on that and not solely on the outcome of the next couple of games.

Whatever they do, they need to do quickly and make it clear to the fanbase, the university community and potential recruits.
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This may be a case of hearing what I want to hear, but I heard the same thing at 10pm from Rosen, but I'm pretty sure he said a "significant booster close to the program," and I also recall hearing him say that the booster said that the buyout money wasn't going to be an issue.
 

bleedsmaroonandgold said:
I think another big comparison point is that Kill is still playing with mostly Brewster recruits. Tubby has had time to clear out all of Monson's players and has entirely Tubby-recruited players on his roster. I think the hope and assumption is still alive that once Kill has players who he picked to fit his system, things will be better. Conversely, Tubby's seasons after getting rid of all of the Monson recruits have not been appreciatively better than his seasons playing with Monson's teams, so that leads to the question of what is going to change.
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Definitely agree here as well.

Im just going to continue standing on my soapbox saying Teague and Ellis know basketball and will make the best basketball decision for this school at the end of the season and until then, Go Gophers!
 

Breakin' The Plane said:
This may be a case of hearing what I want to hear, but I heard the same thing at 10pm from Rosen, but I'm pretty sure he said a "significant booster close to the program," and I also recall hearing him say that the booster said that the buyout money wasn't going to be an issue.
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A potential deal breaker for the T. Denny Sanford practice facility?
 

The-Real-Truth said:
This is very true. However, Tubby can play the lack-of-prctice-facility card for his recruiting. This will help him land another job also. People will give him credit to win this many games without top recruits and a practice facility.

Go Gophers
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I have no doubt Tubby was a great coach at UK. He won a lot of games there and a title. I also have little doubt, tubby is a great person, father, grandfather, husband, etc.

I am not sure if, for whatever reason, he is the best coach for MN going forward.

Despite what many will say, he HAS advanced our program. 3 tourney appearances in 6 years and an NIT run. He has beaten nationally ranked teams, blue blood programs, we knocked off number 1 this year.

He has lacked in winning games on the road, late season collapses and player retention. His rotation is also mind boggling and guys play with no confidence or fluidity and look all around confused. These things worry me from a coaching perspective.

I only say all of this in order to conclude with Tubby Smith will be just fine, as you also said. Whether he is coaching Minnesota, a different school, or retired, it has been a wonderful career for him and he has brought national relevance to MN.

I wish him the absolute best whatever his future, but as for the U of M. Teague and Ellis have a decision to make and I am hopeful they will make the right one.
 


Well said. (Especially the first paragraph.) Agreed with everything, except that the right decision is to move forward and hire a new coach, not hold on to the past.

scher215 said:
I have no doubt Tubby was a great coach at UK. He won a lot of games there and a title. I also have little doubt, tubby is a great person, father, grandfather, husband, etc.

I am not sure if, for whatever reason, he is the best coach for MN going forward.

Despite what many will say, he HAS advanced our program. 3 tourney appearances in 6 years and an NIT run. He has beaten nationally ranked teams, blue blood programs, we knocked off number 1 this year.

He has lacked in winning games on the road, late season collapses and player retention. His rotation is also mind boggling and guys play with no confidence or fluidity and look all around confused. These things worry me from a coaching perspective.

I only say all of this in order to conclude with Tubby Smith will be just fine, as you also said. Whether he is coaching Minnesota, a different school, or retired, it has been a wonderful career for him and he has brought national relevance to MN.

I wish him the absolute best whatever his future, but as for the U of M. Teague and Ellis have a decision to make and I am hopeful they will make the right one.
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I've really come to appreciate and admire Coach Smith in the time he's been here. He's such an honorable and upright person that you cheer for the guy to succeed. If the administration decides to go a different way in the off-season, my first emotion is going to be sorrow because we all wanted nothing more than for this to work out and be fully successful here. Tubby is a Gopher family member, and it would be heartbreaking to see a family member go down the road.

Three Tournament appearances in six years is not chopped liver. That's what makes this potentially such a difficult and even agonizing decision for Teague. But there are obviously extenuating circumstances here, and Teague and his staff are aware of everything surrounding the program including things none of us are privy to. As I've posted elsewhere, they'll make a sound and just decision.

What I'm left with at the end of the day is that we haven't had the benefit of the young Tubby at Georgia and Tulsa who brought a lot of energy and drive to the job. Those factors are what it takes to make his style of coaching work. And he may have found out inadvertently what others like Bob Knight found out - that that style is difficult to pull off when you get a little older, and it might not work as well in this day and age.
 

scher215 said:
I have no doubt Tubby was a great coach at UK. He won a lot of games there and a title. I also have little doubt, tubby is a great person, father, grandfather, husband, etc.

I am not sure if, for whatever reason, he is the best coach for MN going forward.

Despite what many will say, he HAS advanced our program. 3 tourney appearances in 6 years and an NIT run. He has beaten nationally ranked teams, blue blood programs, we knocked off number 1 this year.

He has lacked in winning games on the road, late season collapses and player retention. His rotation is also mind boggling and guys play with no confidence or fluidity and look all around confused. These things worry me from a coaching perspective.

I only say all of this in order to conclude with Tubby Smith will be just fine, as you also said. Whether he is coaching Minnesota, a different school, or retired, it has been a wonderful career for him and he has brought national relevance to MN.

I wish him the absolute best whatever his future, but as for the U of M. Teague and Ellis have a decision to make and I am hopeful they will make the right one.
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Very good post. I said exactly the same thing about coach Keady when I was there. Like Bad Gopher also said, it would have been great if you guys could see young Tubby. I did and enjoyed college basketball because of the way that Tubby's teams played it. I also wish him the best. I wish he had retired last year. His MN respect would have been much higher.

Go Tubby and Gophers
 

Holy Man said:
The problem is with the strings. Very unlikely those become public, and they become fodder for gossip and are detrimental to the program. My guess is that he agrees to the "strings" and stays, or he does not agree to the "strings" and he goes. If he makes the Sweet 16 and there is an appearance that he was fired, The U gets bashed from coast to coast. If he makes the Sweet 16 and chooses to leave for something else, all is good for him and the program is less damaged. I think everyone knows that this has to go fast. No dawdling allowed. The gossip cannot be helpful, and it only gets perpetuated if there is not a decision quickly.
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They don't! Iowa deserves to be in over us.
 




Bad Gopher said:
I've really come to appreciate and admire Coach Smith in the time he's been here. He's such an honorable and upright person that you cheer for the guy to succeed. If the administration decides to go a different way in the off-season, my first emotion is going to be sorrow because we all wanted nothing more than for this to work out and be fully successful here. Tubby is a Gopher family member, and it would be heartbreaking to see a family member go down the road.

Three Tournament appearances in six years is not chopped liver. That's what makes this potentially such a difficult and even agonizing decision for Teague. But there are obviously extenuating circumstances here, and Teague and his staff are aware of everything surrounding the program including things none of us are privy to. As I've posted elsewhere, they'll make a sound and just decision.

What I'm left with at the end of the day is that we haven't had the benefit of the young Tubby at Georgia and Tulsa who brought a lot of energy and drive to the job. Those factors are what it takes to make his style of coaching work. And he may have found out inadvertently what others like Bob Knight found out - that that style is difficult to pull off when you get a little older, and it might not work as well in this day and age.
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It's not over for Tubby here, but if this year is it, then I will look at his tenure here as a missed opportunity. We brought in Tubby to bring things to a whole different level and he had the name recognition, history and credibility to do so. It appears to me that through a combination of stubborness, poor communication and lack of passion that he failed to do what he could have done here. Has he improved our standing as a basketball program? At the very surface- yes he has in terms of getting into the NCAAs. However, if you look deeper (again if this is the end) he has actually hurt the program somewhat. Here is this great HOF coach who could not win at Minnesota (this ain't winning). That leaves the stigma on the program that "Tubby Smith couldn't even win there" -so it's not a place you can win at from a national viewpoint. That's a shame, because a fully engaged Tubby Smith could have won here.
 

bga1 said:
It's not over for Tubby here, but if this year is it, then I will look at his tenure here as a missed opportunity. We brought in Tubby to bring things to a whole different level and he had the name recognition, history and credibility to do so. It appears to me that through a combination of stubborness, poor communication and lack of passion that he failed to do what he could have done here. Has he improved our standing as a basketball program? At the very surface- yes he has in terms of getting into the NCAAs. However, if you look deeper (again if this is the end) he has actually hurt the program somewhat. Here is this great HOF coach who could not win at Minnesota (this ain't winning). That leaves the stigma on the program that "Tubby Smith couldn't even win there" -so it's not a place you can win at from a national viewpoint. That's a shame, because a fully engaged Tubby Smith could have won here.
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Fair post.

Go Gophers
 

I agree with the idea that he is gone.

I think he might be gone if he gets to the elite 8.
I think Norwood has made up his mind half-way through the season.
 



bga1 said:
It's not over for Tubby here, but if this year is it, then I will look at his tenure here as a missed opportunity. We brought in Tubby to bring things to a whole different level and he had the name recognition, history and credibility to do so. It appears to me that through a combination of stubborness, poor communication and lack of passion that he failed to do what he could have done here. Has he improved our standing as a basketball program? At the very surface- yes he has in terms of getting into the NCAAs. However, if you look deeper (again if this is the end) he has actually hurt the program somewhat. Here is this great HOF coach who could not win at Minnesota (this ain't winning). That leaves the stigma on the program that "Tubby Smith couldn't even win there" -so it's not a place you can win at from a national viewpoint. That's a shame, because a fully engaged Tubby Smith could have won here.
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Your point is another thing I've reflected on and should probably have included in my post. It does become a damaging turn of events if, as you state, "Even Tubby Smith couldn't win at Minnesota." It goes right along with not being able to win at Minnesota without cheating, which is the conclusion some come to based on an incomplete appraisal of Clem's years here. It's even enough to make ME wonder what the potential for this program is, even though my intellect tells me that there's no good reason we can't be more successful than we've been in recent years.

On the other hand - and there's always another hand - there's a message that Teague can send by potentially making such a move, and that is to assert that there IS great potential here; that we're NOT going to be satisfied with perennial losing conference records. Joel thought he was making that statement when he hired Smith in the first place, though. At the end of the day, the only thing that will change the perception of this program is the realization of that type of success, which we have no choice but to continue pursuing.
 

9th place, this year. 9th. Did anyone here think we would finish lower in the Big Ten than our highest ranking????????

9th effing place.
 

bga1 said:
It's not over for Tubby here, but if this year is it, then I will look at his tenure here as a missed opportunity. We brought in Tubby to bring things to a whole different level and he had the name recognition, history and credibility to do so. It appears to me that through a combination of stubborness, poor communication and lack of passion that he failed to do what he could have done here. Has he improved our standing as a basketball program? At the very surface- yes he has in terms of getting into the NCAAs. However, if you look deeper (again if this is the end) he has actually hurt the program somewhat. Here is this great HOF coach who could not win at Minnesota (this ain't winning). That leaves the stigma on the program that "Tubby Smith couldn't even win there" -so it's not a place you can win at from a national viewpoint. That's a shame, because a fully engaged Tubby Smith could have won here.
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I agree with much of your post except for the part about not being able to win here. To me, that's a cop out and an excuse to not push to get better. It's also the basis for the whole "well, we better not fire Tubby because who knows what we'll end up with" argument. Other than that, Tubby hasn't gotten the job done. My basis for this opinion is summed up nicely by the bolded portion of your post. And I'm less than enthusiastic about future prospects with him at the helm, especially considering how his six years have gone. All and all, Tubby needs to be let go imo. If he isn't, I won't dwell on it. I simply won't expect much from him or his team while he remains here.
 

GopherJake said:
9th place, this year. 9th. Did anyone here think we would finish lower in the Big Ten than our highest ranking????????

9th effing place.
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We didn't finish in 9th place, "effing" or otherwise.
 



I looked in the dictionary. It said Tubby Smith's team finished in 9th place. Unable to link. It was written in permanent ink though.
 


When you can't actually deal in actual facts to push your agenda, it severely undermines the entire agenda. Just a little Debating 101 for you.
 

chri1673 said:
Rosen was one of those saying that this team doesn't deserve to be in the tournament....for those keeping track.
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Just once I would like someone who says they didn't deserve to be in the tourney to come up with the teams that should have taken their place. Let us know why Kentucky or Virginia should have been in above MN. It's been said before, you need 68 teams in the tourney. There are probably some years where the Gophers don't get in with their resume. This year isn't one of them.
 



station19 said:
What a useless argument.
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I agree. I say let's split it down the middle and say we finished tied for both seventh and ninth. That way, everybody can feel great about their individual stance on the argument.
 





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