Jamison Battle to enter the Transfer Portal

[howeda7]

No. I don't want another mediocre coach if we are going to make a change. Miles doesn't have the pop to get it done here.

Neither does Ben. I'll take a return to competence over pointless wishing and hoping. Miles wouldn't be my first choice or even in my top 5. But he would have a very high floor at a minimum.

 

[SelectionSunday]

If Malik Hall decides not to return to Michigan State for his fifth season, don't be surprised if Izzo goes hard after Battle. Spartans will be loaded next season, but Hall's departure would leave a gaping hole at the 3/4 combo position. Battle would fill that spot nicely.

With the plethora of talented guards he'd be playing with, most notably Hoggard and likely Walker, I'd bet on Battle shooting the ball more like he did the 2021-22 season than this past season.

 

[formerlybis]

Garcia was far more efficient than Battle and better in every single statistical area except FT%. Battle was better by 78% to 71% but even there Garcia got to the line 3 times as often as Battle. It's just no contest between the two players- Garcia is much better and much tougher to defend.

But how'd the team do? I don't care near as much about individual efficiency as team efficiency, and this was the worst offense in a good long time.

Nebraska had a guy named Teddy Allen who had the exact same offensive rating as Garcia this year, with higher usage. Nebraska won 3 conference games that year (that was supposed to sound bad - I realize that's 50%more than the 2022-23 Gophers).

As I said in another post, this isn't a defense of Battle, per se. It's a plea to look more at the team as complementary pieces rather than collection of individuals' stats. Garcia may be hard to fit in the team concept, at least the one used by Ben (and Marq & UNC).

 

[Dakota2]

Don't lecture me on the Sixers. I've forgotten more about that team than you'll ever know.

If you actually read the post instead of immediately jumping at another lame attempt to attack me (I don't know why you keep trying; you always fail), you'll see that I acknowledged his greatness and that he led that team to great moments. The NBA finals appearance was 6 years before the trade. At that point, he no longer wanted to play for the team. They traded him midseason and they were a better team for the rest of the season (due in no small part of Andre Miller) than they were before the trade.

Claiming the U is not a bastion of sick/woke is bad enough but two posts about the irrelevant Sixers is too much. Take a break.

 

[cjbfbp]

But how'd the team do? I don't care near as much about individual efficiency as team efficiency, and this was the worst offense in a good long time.

Nebraska had a guy named Teddy Allen who had the exact same offensive rating as Garcia this year, with higher usage. Nebraska won 3 conference games that year (that was supposed to sound bad - I realize that's 50%more than the 2022-23 Gophers).

As I said in another post, this isn't a defense of Battle, per se. It's a plea to look more at the team as complementary pieces rather than collection of individuals' stats. Garcia may be hard to fit in the team concept, at least the one used by Ben (and Marq & UNC).

You know, if you're going to make an assumption that Garcia may not be a team player because of the performance of Marquette when he was there (or maybe NC when he was there) you might do the same for Battle. Battle has never played for a winning team in college

 

[Gophers_4life]

Neither does Ben. I'll take a return to competence over pointless wishing and hoping. Miles wouldn't be my first choice or even in my top 5. But he would have a very high floor at a minimum.

Miles came from Colorado State.

So if going that route then might as well try Medved. Pair him up again with Thorson for some continuity.

 

[Spaulding!No!]

You know, if you're going to make an assumption that Garcia may not be a team player because of the performance of Marquette when he was there (or maybe NC when he was there) you might do the same for Battle. Battle has never played for a winning team in college

I believe you may have identified the similarities of the players and staff. Our work here is done.

 

[bga1]

But how'd the team do? I don't care near as much about individual efficiency as team efficiency, and this was the worst offense in a good long time.

Nebraska had a guy named Teddy Allen who had the exact same offensive rating as Garcia this year, with higher usage. Nebraska won 3 conference games that year (that was supposed to sound bad - I realize that's 50%more than the 2022-23 Gophers).

As I said in another post, this isn't a defense of Battle, per se. It's a plea to look more at the team as complementary pieces rather than collection of individuals' stats. Garcia may be hard to fit in the team concept, at least the one used by Ben (and Marq & UNC).

Battle played both years and the team won a total of 6 games. He is neither the answer nor specifically the problem. The bottom line is that the first year - we had no bigs. The second year, we had no guards or at least not good enough ones. Ben has to put together a team that is constructed better and is older. It didn't help matters that 4 frosh were getting nearly half of the PT. A new roster with lots of young guys and poor guard play is a recipe for disaster. Add to that your two volume shooters both play the same position.

So what was Ben to do? Do the same thing over again and hope for different results?

 

[MonikerSchmoniker45]

Miles came from Colorado State.

So if going that route then might as well try Medved. Pair him up again with Thorson for some continuity.

Please no. When Ben goes, he needs to take Thorson with him.

 

[skiumah1]

Please no. When Ben goes, he needs to take Thorson with him.

No assistants will be staying if the HC is fired.

 

[howeda7]

Miles came from Colorado State.

So if going that route then might as well try Medved. Pair him up again with Thorson for some continuity.

Thorson has been just as big of a disappointment as Ben. No thanks. He can go too.

 

[formerlybis]

You know, if you're going to make an assumption that Garcia may not be a team player because of the performance of Marquette when he was there (or maybe NC when he was there) you might do the same for Battle. Battle has never played for a winning team in college

Touche.

Again, not trying to be pro-Battle, I'm not sure either of those two has had a college coach that knows how to use them, But, I do have the idea that neither of them should be too "alpha" within a team.

 

[formerlybis]

Battle played both years and the team won a total of 6 games. He is neither the answer nor specifically the problem. The bottom line is that the first year - we had no bigs. The second year, we had no guards or at least not good enough ones. Ben has to put together a team that is constructed better and is older. It didn't help matters that 4 frosh were getting nearly half of the PT. A new roster with lots of young guys and poor guard play is a recipe for disaster. Add to that your two volume shooters both play the same position.

So what was Ben to do? Do the same thing over again and hope for different results?

I think we agree that Ben hasn't put together a coherent team either year, so no argument there.

However, I will point out that the offense last year ended up #98 on t-rank and this year #220. Neither is acceptable, but there was a huge dropoff. Might be an argument that it's better to have guards, but the addition of Garcia - regardless of his individual stats - didn't do anything to change the result of a demonstrably worse performance. Maybe you think it would have been #250 without him....

 

[bga1]

I think we agree that Ben hasn't put together a coherent team either year, so no argument there.

However, I will point out that the offense last year ended up #98 on t-rank and this year #220. Neither is acceptable, but there was a huge dropoff. Might be an argument that it's better to have guards, but the addition of Garcia - regardless of his individual stats - didn't do anything to change the result of a demonstrably worse performance. Maybe you think it would have been #250 without him....

Stephens and Loewe didn't turn it over and could shoot when open, Willis had a terrific year and Battle played the 4. Had that team had Garcia, he would have played the 5 and Battle the 4 and they might have won 8 games or more. Garcia is the better player, hands down. And the coaches voted him honorable mention all Big Ten- not Battle. Battle just wasn't good this year and he bears some of the responsibility for that and probably most of it.

 

[tjgopher]

I think we agree that Ben hasn't put together a coherent team either year, so no argument there.

However, I will point out that the offense last year ended up #98 on t-rank and this year #220. Neither is acceptable, but there was a huge dropoff. Might be an argument that it's better to have guards, but the addition of Garcia - regardless of his individual stats - didn't do anything to change the result of a demonstrably worse performance. Maybe you think it would have been #250 without him....

Let's not forget the team averaged 55 ppg in the 5.5 games that Garcia missed, and 69 ppg in the 8 games after he returned.

Garcia was not the problem.

 

[gopherbadgerman]

What makes you embarrassed?

Not letting someone into a program because they are an athlete.

 

[Holy Man]

Not letting someone into a program because they are an athlete.

This reminds me of an incident in high school English class when one of the best students in our class who had A or close to A work all semester and was inexplicably given a C by a teacher who was entering senility if not a permanent resident. When the family inquired about his poor grade, the senile teacher said, “It must have been football.” I was grateful Miss Senile didn’t see the athlete in me (she wasn’t the only one) and gave me an A!

That said, I’m with the posters who suggest he was academically punished for being an athlete as bs.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

Neither does Ben. I'll take a return to competence over pointless wishing and hoping. Miles wouldn't be my first choice or even in my top 5. But he would have a very high floor at a minimum.

This 100%.

A "Jerry Kill" type hire by the basketball program would be exponentially better than what we're seeing now.

 

[atsgopher]

Not letting someone into a program because they are an athlete.

I’m not sure that’s what’s happening. I think it’s more that he doesn’t meet the minimum standards.

It makes sense with the applications to Inidiana. There business analytics program looks substantially easier to get into.

 

[Spaulding!No!]

Nah, Battle likely enjoys good direction/instruction and he is smart enough to know that is missing at MN.

 

[Gophers_4life]

I’m not sure that’s what’s happening. I think it’s more that he doesn’t meet the minimum standards.

It makes sense with the applications to Inidiana. There business analytics program looks substantially easier to get into.

Bolded is correct. And what is being said is that the department doesn't want to feel forced or coerced into bending its minimum requirements to get someone in (our of a likely large pool of applicants) just because they're "special" as an athlete.

Likely not the only department at the U that has rigorous minimum requirements and an actual application process to be admitted into the program (beyond just being admitted to the University).

 

[skiumah1]

Bolded is correct. And what is being said is that the department doesn't want to feel forced or coerced into bending its minimum requirements to get someone in (our of a likely large pool of applicants) just because they're "special" as an athlete.

Likely not the only department at the U that has rigorous minimum requirements and an actual application process to be admitted into the program (beyond just being admitted to the University).

I believe Battle is transferring to attempt to get paid and not wanting to play for us anymore mainly.

 

[Gophers_4life]

I believe Battle is transferring to attempt to get paid and not wanting to play for us anymore mainly.

Agreed

 

[GopherWeatherGuy]

I believe Battle is transferring to attempt to get paid and not wanting to play for us anymore mainly.

I think he'd also like the chance to play on a NCAA tournament team.

 

[Gopher_In_NYC]

I’m not sure that’s what’s happening. I think it’s more that he doesn’t meet the minimum standards.

Victimization is the new crypto

It makes sense with the applications to Inidiana. Their business analytics program looks substantially easier to get into.

 

[cjbfbp]

Not letting someone into a program because they are an athlete.

That only would be embarrassing if it were true. Based on personal experience, I'd say the probability of that being true is less than 10%.

 

[cjbfbp]

I’m not sure that’s what’s happening. I think it’s more that he doesn’t meet the minimum standards.

It makes sense with the applications to Inidiana. There business analytics program looks substantially easier to get into.

The business college at Indiana has a very good reputation. I'd be surprised if admission to their program was easy. Most Big Ten business colleges are well regarded.

Remember a couple of things:

1) Graduate business programs are relatively small compared to the undergraduate programs; and

2) Minimum standards are not particularly indicative of the actual admission standards for a particular group. Depends upon the number and quality of applications.

Let's suppose a graduate business program will admit 50 students and announces a minimum GPA of 3.0 and possibly a certain minimum GMAT score (if applicable, not all programs require them anymore). That 3.0 minimum threshold simply excludes you from consideration of you're below that. Exceeding that threshold doesn't guarantee you admission.

If there are 150 applicants who apply and 75 of them have a GPA of 3.5 or better, there's a good chance you're not getting in if your GPA stands at 3.25.

 

[Gopherguy0723]

Stephens and Loewe didn't turn it over and could shoot when open, Willis had a terrific year and Battle played the 4. Had that team had Garcia, he would have played the 5 and Battle the 4 and they might have won 8 games or more. Garcia is the better player, hands down. And the coaches voted him honorable mention all Big Ten- not Battle. Battle just wasn't good this year and he bears some of the responsibility for that and probably most of it.

Why are people arguing with you? Eye test and stats say Garcia was vastly superior on both sides of the ball.

Battle looked like a starter on a mid-tier mid-major team. He has huge limitations, and offers nothing if he isn't scoring.

 

[bga1]

Neither does Ben. I'll take a return to competence over pointless wishing and hoping. Miles wouldn't be my first choice or even in my top 5. But he would have a very high floor at a minimum.

Again- why would you make a change to be mediocre? If you are going for it- then go for it. Miles has already proven he can't resurrect a program. If we go through the mess of firing (which- face it- we aren't doing this year) then hire a big time guy and pay the money. Miles is not big time.

 

[cjbfbp]

Why are people arguing with you? Eye test and stats say Garcia was vastly superior on both sides of the ball.

Battle looked like a stater or a mid-tier mid-major team. He has huge limitations, and offers nothing if he isn't scoring.

I'd say a combination of two things:

1) Sentimental attachment. Battle was good last season so there must have been some obstacle keeping this good player from even reaching an "average" level of performance this season.

2) A fair number of people are invested in blaming Ben Johnson for virtually everything. The most popular explanation is that Johnson hindered him by playing him out of position. Of course, these people ignore the question of whether Johnson should have played him at the four instead of Garcia. Battle averaged only 1.6 fewer field goal attempts per game this season than last season and his 12.6 field goal attempts per game led the team (Garcia was second with 12.5). The problem was that he connected on 37% of these this season instead of the 45% he hit last season. His shooting percentages were significantly lower on both 2 and 3 point shots.

Intellectual honesty and objectivity are not valued by lots of people on the board. Many of them just have the attitude of an advocate. They take a position, stick to it, and aren't at all troubled by the possibility that their view lacks foundation.