Jace Frederick: Gophers football team plays in Big Ten’s JV division

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I’d equate the B10 East vs. West to what a lot of years the B10-ACC Challange looks lIke. The East might have the best team on top but top to bottom but there’s no doubt the West’s 2nd through 7th teams are stronger.
 

MplsGopher said:
This could be true.

But I won't pay money for opinions.


I can come on here for free and get my fill, of every which way.
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I disagree, but I also came from a writing background, so I specifically appreciate the depth and quality of the work on The Athletic. It's not just opinions. Writers like Russo (Wild), Jon K (Wolves) and Dan Hayes (Twins) have so much knowledge on the teams they cover. They also don't have to deal with word counts or tight deadlines. Plus, they have two writers for each of our pro sports teams, so it's just much more comprehensive coverage than the Strib or any print paper.

NOTE: my original comment had to do with pro team coverage in the Cities since The Athletic doesn't have a dedicated Gophers writer at this time.
 

Sounds like there's an opportunity for a West team to rise up and challenge the OSU (and maybe Michigan?) dominance.

I think Iowa and Wisconsin should take one for the team and share some recruits with us 😎
 

WriterGoph said:
I disagree, but I also came from a writing background, so I specifically appreciate the depth and quality of the work on The Athletic. It's not just opinions. Writers like Russo (Wild), Jon K (Wolves) and Dan Hayes (Twins) have so much knowledge on the teams they cover. They also don't have to deal with word counts or tight deadlines. Plus, they have two writers for each of our pro sports teams, so it's just much more comprehensive coverage than the Strib or any print paper.

NOTE: my original comment had to do with pro team coverage in the Cities since The Athletic doesn't have a dedicated Gophers writer at this time.
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Fair and good point.

Maybe sadly, but in-depth is a niche, and of course if you want a niche you gotta pay for it.
 

Six to Eight said:
Your logic is poor. If Ohio State played in the West, it would have won most or all of the past 8 conference titles. You look at the title games Ohio State didn't play in and the first two games were decided by one score. Even this year, Iowa hung with Michigan longer than the final score would suggest.

Michigan State and PSU have been up and down. Now if Harbaugh actually turns all that talent at Mich into sustained success, then you might have a case.
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Not necessarily.

The fact remains the east has won. The west has not.
 


BarnBurner said:
Not necessarily.

The fact remains the east has won. The west has not.
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So if you took Ohio State and moved them to the West they suddenly wouldn't have won 5 of the last 8 Big Ten titles?
 

MNVCGUY said:
So if you took Ohio State and moved them to the West they suddenly wouldn't have won 5 of the last 8 Big Ten titles?
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No, because they wouldn’t have won the west if they had to play their kryptonite (Ross ade at night) more often
 

MNVCGUY said:
So if you took Ohio State and moved them to the West they suddenly wouldn't have won 5 of the last 8 Big Ten titles?
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Perhaps not. Lots of variables. But you know that.
 

I don't take any offense to the OP premise that the West is the JV side of he Big 10. Spin it however one likes, but the fact it's weaker is undeniable. 0-8 including another beatdown by an East team other than Ohio St this past Saturday, just a simple fact.

It's going to change again at some point, either another realignment or eliminating Divisions, just my opinion, sooner rather than later.

Probably after the CFP stuff shakes out and what seems inevitable a move to 16 teams (or more).
 



Some guy said:
No, because they wouldn’t have won the west if they had to play their kryptonite (Ross ade at night) more often
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Purdue is 1-3 against Ohio State over the last 10 years, so 2-3 wins every 10 years. And they only played once from 2013-2016 when they were terrible and won 9 games over 4 years. It's Ohio State alone that shifts the power no matter what division they are in.

Wisconsin is 1 for its last 12 vs Ohio State
Iowa is 2 for its last 15 vs Ohio State, but crazy that have only played 5 times over last 15 years
Nebraska is 1-9 since 2012.
Northwestern 1-9 Since 2004.
Illinois 1-9 since Since 2007
Minnesota 0-10 back to 2004
Purdue 4-6 dating back to 2004.


All time wins vs Ohio State
Illinois 30
Wisconsin 18
Iowa 15
Purdue 15
Northwestern 14
Minnesota 7
Nebraska 1

Michigan 59 (2-8 in last 10)
Michigan St 15 (2-8 in last 10)
Penn State 14 (1-9 over last 10)


Playing more will just mean the tOSU will dissect the team more.
 

MaxyJR1 said:
Purdue is 1-3 against Ohio State over the last 10 years, so 2-3 wins every 10 years. And they only played once from 2013-2016 when they were terrible and won 9 games over 4 years. It's Ohio State alone that shifts the power no matter what division they are in.

Wisconsin is 1 for its last 12 vs Ohio State
Iowa is 2 for its last 15 vs Ohio State, but crazy that have only played 5 times over last 15 years
Nebraska is 1-9 since 2012.
Northwestern 1-9 Since 2004.
Illinois 1-9 since Since 2007
Minnesota 0-10 back to 2004
Purdue 4-6 dating back to 2004.


All time wins vs Ohio State
Illinois 30
Wisconsin 18
Iowa 15
Purdue 15
Northwestern 14
Minnesota 7
Nebraska 1

Michigan 59 (2-8 in last 10)
Michigan St 15 (2-8 in last 10)
Penn State 14 (1-9 over last 10)


Playing more will just mean the tOSU will dissect the team more.
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That was a joke
 





MaxyJR1 said:
I know, but wanted to just show how ridiculous tOSU is vs the rest.
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Yeah. You could put Ohio state in a division with the bottom 6 of the conference and the perception is going to probably be that the divisions are in pretty good balance because ohio state would win the title even more often
 

I know two things. The West is weaker than the East and the Twin Cities has too many "sportswriters." I don't think either make a difference at the end of the day.
 

Saying the west is the JV of the conference is just stupid. The west is near .500 against the east about every year. Saying it's the JV division makes it seem like the east completely dominates year after year.
 

Ope3 said:
Spin it however one likes, but the fact it's weaker is undeniable.
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I think it all depends on how you measure it.

Like you said, 0-8 in champ games. But that's only one measure.


I don't think the weakest East programs are anything special. And that's obvious, I don't think anyone would really disagree.


Mich St is a program like Wisconsin and Iowa. 75k attendance when they're good, and they have some sparks now and then.


It's really just the three elite programs with 100k+ stadiums, that set the East (and the Big Ten frankly) apart.


Nebraska is the closest that, on paper, the West has to that and they're only 80k stadium/attendance (would be interesting if they expanded to 100k in a fit of narcissism, if they'd still sell out the damn thing). Of course, they're come nowhere close to what they did in the 90's and early 2000's, and it's becoming clearer every year that they'll never get that back. Different era, different ability to bend/break rules, different rules altogether.
 

MplsGopher said:
I think it all depends on how you measure it.

Like you said, 0-8 in champ games. But that's only one measure.


I don't think the weakest East programs are anything special. And that's obvious, I don't think anyone would really disagree.


Mich St is a program like Wisconsin and Iowa. 75k attendance when they're good, and they have some sparks now and then.


It's really just the three elite programs with 100k+ stadiums, that set the East (and the Big Ten frankly) apart.


Nebraska is the closest that, on paper, the West has to that and they're only 80k stadium/attendance (would be interesting if they expanded to 100k in a fit of narcissism, if they'd still sell out the damn thing). Of course, they're come nowhere close to what they did in the 90's and early 2000's, and it's becoming clearer every year that they'll never get that back. Different era, different ability to bend/break rules, different rules altogether.
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True, only 1 measure and you list several other variables.

However, this 1 aspect is very important as FOX ponies up a lot of dough to televise the game and if the results are a foregone conclusion and ratings suffer that may sway the powers that be to abandon Divisions or realign.

May the other geographic/competitive factors be enough to maintain status quo? Sure, no doubt, but I still think it's going to change pretty quickly.
 

Ope3 said:
True, only 1 measure and you list several other variables.

However, this 1 aspect is very important as FOX ponies up a lot of dough to televise the game and if the results are a foregone conclusion and ratings suffer that may sway the powers that be to abandon Divisions or realign.

May the other geographic/competitive factors be enough to maintain status quo? Sure, no doubt, but I still think it's going to change pretty quickly.
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Indeed, games where Ohio State steamrolls Wisconsin, or like this year where Michigan crapped on Iowa .... don't do a lot to pique interest, and make perfect sense for why you scrap divisions and pick the two best.

Obviously you wouldn't want to turn right around and do a rematch of Ohio State-Mich as the champ game, when they just played the last week of the regular season (which is a set in stone date going forward). But this year ..... it probably would've been correct.
 

Ope3 said:
True, only 1 measure and you list several other variables.

However, this 1 aspect is very important as FOX ponies up a lot of dough to televise the game and if the results are a foregone conclusion and ratings suffer that may sway the powers that be to abandon Divisions or realign.

May the other geographic/competitive factors be enough to maintain status quo? Sure, no doubt, but I still think it's going to change pretty quickly.
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Maybe exclude tOSU from the game and just have them go on as a 11-1/12-0 independent each year. Play for 2nd place in the Championship game

All kidding aside, there is only one blue blue program right now and you can't fix a one team problem, unless you're the MIAC.
 

MaxyJR1 said:
Maybe exclude tOSU from the game and just have them go on as a 11-1/12-0 independent each year. Play for 2nd place in the Championship game

All kidding aside, there is only one blue blue program right now and you can't fix a one team problem, unless you're the MIAC.
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Didn't Michigan just fix it in the past 2 weeks by beating Ohio St and Iowa? Or is it now a 2 team problem?
 

Ope3 said:
Didn't Michigan just fix it in the past 2 weeks by beating Ohio St and Iowa? Or is it now a 2 team problem?
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Winning the B1G once in 15 years doesn't fix tOSU issue of being at the top. Gotta see a couple more years of tOSU losing.
 

While the two divisions are not equal, it's also of note that the West teams also don't have the advantage of a solid recruiting base.

The current setup is fine.
 


MaxyJR1 said:
Purdue is 1-3 against Ohio State over the last 10 years, so 2-3 wins every 10 years. And they only played once from 2013-2016 when they were terrible and won 9 games over 4 years. It's Ohio State alone that shifts the power no matter what division they are in.

Wisconsin is 1 for its last 12 vs Ohio State
Iowa is 2 for its last 15 vs Ohio State, but crazy that have only played 5 times over last 15 years
Nebraska is 1-9 since 2012.
Northwestern 1-9 Since 2004.
Illinois 1-9 since Since 2007
Minnesota 0-10 back to 2004
Purdue 4-6 dating back to 2004.


All time wins vs Ohio State
Illinois 30
Wisconsin 18
Iowa 15
Purdue 15
Northwestern 14
Minnesota 7
Nebraska 1

Michigan 59 (2-8 in last 10)
Michigan St 15 (2-8 in last 10)
Penn State 14 (1-9 over last 10)


Playing more will just mean the tOSU will dissect the team more.
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This is remarkable. They've been dominant forever. Even back when Minnesota was a historical powerhouse, they still barely ever beat tOSU? That's crazy. And NW has more wins all time?
 

discochris said:
This is remarkable. They've been dominant forever. Even back when Minnesota was a historical powerhouse, they still barely ever beat tOSU? That's crazy. And NW has more wins all time?
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To be fair, Mn and OSU have been in the same conference like 110 years and have played about half the time in that span
 

MplsGopher said:
Indeed, games where Ohio State steamrolls Wisconsin, or like this year where Michigan crapped on Iowa .... don't do a lot to pique interest, and make perfect sense for why you scrap divisions and pick the two best.

Obviously you wouldn't want to turn right around and do a rematch of Ohio State-Mich as the champ game, when they just played the last week of the regular season (which is a set in stone date going forward). But this year ..... it probably would've been correct.
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The last week of the regular season is set in stone, but the Mich - Ohio St game could be moved earlier in the year if the entity writing the TV checks wants it changed. How many more bucks could a late October tilt be in Prime Time? That would also prevent a potential rematch in the Big 10 Championship being on back-to-back weeks.
 

Some guy said:
To be fair, Mn and OSU have been in the same conference like 110 years and have played about half the time in that span
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We are 7-47 all time. That seems almost impossible.
 

MaxyJR1 said:
Winning the B1G once in 15 years doesn't fix tOSU issue of being at the top. Gotta see a couple more years of tOSU losing.
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It has been 3 times in the past 8 years that Oh St has not won the Big 10 East. Mich St (2015) & Penn St (2016) also accomplished it in leading up to the East's 8-0 record. So I suppose in addition to Mich it's really a 4 team issue.
 

discochris said:
We are 7-47 all time. That seems almost impossible.
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Most of those were post gophers being good.

pre 1967 big ten title
Gophers 5
Ohio state 7

1969 and later
Ohio state 40
Minnesota 2


Ohio state on a 12 game streak now. Prior to last win Ohio state had a 16 game streak.
Prior to that Ohio state has a 12 game streak.

The worst 30 years of gopher football history was 1969-1998
1969-Penn state joining conference was the only time they have played every year

in that 30 years it was 27-1 Ohio state
Outside that era it is 20-6 Ohio state
We haven’t played that much and when we did was the dark ages of gopher football
 

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