Is it just me or is the star level of our recruiting

Donate To GopherHole

short ornery norwegian said:
Oh, bleep. Flecksters, get your flame-throwers ready.

All the talk of "culture" is BS. pure and simple. You know what a "culture change" really means - better players! that is your culture change.

Do you honestly think that PJ Fleck has come up with some revolutionary new approach that has never been tried before in the history of college FB? No. Bleep No. It's coach-speak taken to a different level, at a higher volume, and more beats-per-minute. But it's not new or revolutionary. Strain out all the BS, and Fleck is saying.........wait for it.........."We want to have a winning program!" Damn - no one in the history of college FB has ever wanted to have a winning program before.

It's BS. It's all BS.

Culture change means having better players. That's it. That's your trend-setting coach. It's all BS.

That is what drives me nuts about Fleck. The attitude like he has discovered someone unique. He hasn't. He has taken an old christmas present, put it in shiny new wrapping, and re-gifted it. It's all BS.

And I still want the program to succeed. I still want the team to win - even if it means Fleck gets the Credit. I want the PROGRAM to succeed. And the Program is bigger, greater, and more important than any coach.

I'm go to leave now and take more blood-pressure medication.
Click to expand...

As much as I hate that the term culture gets tossed around.

Culture is a thing. Ask the folks at Uber...
 

PMWinSTP said:
It is interesting. I have said consistently that it looks like this class will end up ranked in the 40s, and I'd be very happy. Got hammered by the Flecksters as having too low expectations.
Click to expand...

I agree. I don't expect this class to stay in the top 20, but that's okay. Teams don't typically jump from classes ranked in the 50s to the top-20 immediately and stay there (unless you're Ole Miss or shooting in the dark like Brew); it takes a while. A class in the 40s would be a step ahead of where we've been. Then we can worry about getting a class in the 30s next. That's how we're going to have to build.

Fleck's recruits seem to be a small step -- but a step -- ahead of Kill/Cleays. Yes, Kill/Claeys did have players with multiple power 5 offers, but Fleck seems to have a few more. Yes, Kill/Claeys made the most of what they had, so we'll see how this plays out on the field. But let's take a step up this year, then take another step up next year. If we stop moving , then we need to worry.
 

GopherHomer said:
Gopherhole is really a toxic space. This off-season we signed the hottest young coach in the country and I swear at least half the people on this site either want/think that he will fail. Don't get me wrong - history shows that those people are probably right, but if we can't get excited about P.J. Fleck we might as well shut it down as a program. Seriously folks, the best message boards are the ones where people are perpetually, blindly optimistic about the future. We truly DO need a culture change...we are a defeated fanbase.

My tepid predictions for 2017 have basically been an attempt to counter the Reusse-esque "fake targets" out there, but Fleck represents the best chance for us winning the West in 2019 or 2020 than any other obtainable coach. I'm just "diving in" and if he fails I will just "dive in" with the next coach...hence my name.
Click to expand...

This post is particularly rich coming from one of the most consistently pessimistic posters here.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
Oh, bleep. Flecksters, get your flame-throwers ready.

All the talk of "culture" is BS. pure and simple. You know what a "culture change" really means - better players! that is your culture change.

Do you honestly think that PJ Fleck has come up with some revolutionary new approach that has never been tried before in the history of college FB? No. Bleep No. It's coach-speak taken to a different level, at a higher volume, and more beats-per-minute. But it's not new or revolutionary. Strain out all the BS, and Fleck is saying.........wait for it.........."We want to have a winning program!" Damn - no one in the history of college FB has ever wanted to have a winning program before.

It's BS. It's all BS.

Culture change means having better players. That's it. That's your trend-setting coach. It's all BS.

That is what drives me nuts about Fleck. The attitude like he has discovered someone unique. He hasn't. He has taken an old christmas present, put it in shiny new wrapping, and re-gifted it. It's all BS.

And I still want the program to succeed. I still want the team to win - even if it means Fleck gets the Credit. I want the PROGRAM to succeed. And the Program is bigger, greater, and more important than any coach.

I'm go to leave now and take more blood-pressure medication.
Click to expand...

Your post may not be met with praise, but it is spot on. People want to believe and so they tend to hear what they want to hear - but you should be commended for seeing the forest through the trees. Well put SON.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 


short ornery norwegian said:
Oh, bleep. Flecksters, get your flame-throwers ready.

All the talk of "culture" is BS. pure and simple. You know what a "culture change" really means - better players! that is your culture change.

Do you honestly think that PJ Fleck has come up with some revolutionary new approach that has never been tried before in the history of college FB? No. Bleep No. It's coach-speak taken to a different level, at a higher volume, and more beats-per-minute. But it's not new or revolutionary. Strain out all the BS, and Fleck is saying.........wait for it.........."We want to have a winning program!" Damn - no one in the history of college FB has ever wanted to have a winning program before.

It's BS. It's all BS.

Culture change means having better players. That's it. That's your trend-setting coach. It's all BS.

That is what drives me nuts about Fleck. The attitude like he has discovered someone unique. He hasn't. He has taken an old christmas present, put it in shiny new wrapping, and re-gifted it. It's all BS.

And I still want the program to succeed. I still want the team to win - even if it means Fleck gets the Credit. I want the PROGRAM to succeed. And the Program is bigger, greater, and more important than any coach.

I'm go to leave now and take more blood-pressure medication.
Click to expand...

This post is BS pure and simple. If you don't think culture is a thing in football you're delusional.

I'm sure Fleck's culture only consists of him saying "We want a winning program"

Getting hard to take some of you seriously if you think the culture of the program is simply having better players.
 

Spoofin said:
Your post may not be met with praise, but it is spot on. People want to believe and so they tend to hear what they want to hear - but you should be commended for seeing the forest through the trees. Well put SON.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Do you also hate hate Powell's 13 rules of leadership, Goldsmith's 20 Habits, Dan Pink's Three laws of Mastery, and so on? Do you think those are just get better army dudes, get better jobs and hire better people? It is like Psychology is a brand new science yet to be discovered.
 

At one point or another since the hiring of PJ "culture" has meant everything. We know where Coyle started it, then it was uniting with fans, then it was how they practice, then it was how they eat dinner, then it was believing, then it was ..... you get the point. At this point it is what SON said it is - BS. Win Games.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Spoofin said:
At one point or another since the hiring of PJ "culture" has meant everything. We know where Coyle started it, then it was uniting with fans, then it was how they practice, then it was how they eat dinner, then it was believing, then it was ..... you get the point. At this point it is what SON said it is - BS. Win Games.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Culture in football is BS got it. Win games? Almost like there is a process to get to that point.

Weird Fleck has been talking about culture for years yet people insist it started with Coyle.

www.forbes.com/sites/donyaeger/2015...rn-your-team-around-from-coach-p-j-fleck/amp/
 




Spoofin said:
At one point or another since the hiring of PJ "culture" has meant everything. We know where Coyle started it, then it was uniting with fans, then it was how they practice, then it was how they eat dinner, then it was believing, then it was ..... you get the point. At this point it is what SON said it is - BS. Win Games.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Do you even know the definition of culture? Culture does show itself in a lot of areas.

culture (noun)
a : the integrated pattern of human knowledge, belief, and behavior that depends upon the capacity for learning and transmitting knowledge to succeeding generations
b : the customary beliefs, social forms, and material traits of a racial, religious, or social group; also : the characteristic features of everyday existence (such as diversions or a way of life) shared by people in a place or time
c : the set of shared attitudes, values, goals, and practices that characterizes an institution or organization a corporate culture focused on the bottom line
d : the set of values, conventions, or social practices associated with a particular field, activity, or societal characteristic studying the effect of computers on print culture
 

Johnnyboy18 said:
Culture in football is BS got it. Win games? Almost like there is a process to get to that point.

Weird Fleck has been talking about culture for years yet people insist it started with Coyle.

www.forbes.com/sites/donyaeger/2015...rn-your-team-around-from-coach-p-j-fleck/amp/
Click to expand...

No one thinks Coyle started talk of Culture in football. Come on. I'm saying Coyle started the talk of what our current "culture change" here at MN was going to be after the PJ hiring. I think you knew that. My point is that at one point or another since that spectacular presser that Coyle led that we have been told a million different things that our "new culture" encompasses. At this point I believe it even includes how we clean up after our pets. PJ wants it to mean everything and thus it means nothing.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 




Spoofin said:
No one thinks Coyle started talk of Culture in football. Come on. I'm saying Coyle started the talk of what our current "culture change" here at MN was going to be after the PJ hiring. I think you knew that. My point is that at one point or another since that spectacular presser that Coyle led that we have been told a million different things that our "new culture" encompasses. At this point I believe it even includes how we clean up after our pets. PJ wants it to mean everything and thus it means nothing.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

But PJ has been talking about "culture change" long before he was anywhere near being hired at a Big Ten school. Culture is everything not his fault people like you don't get it. Literally every coach defines culture the same way.
 


It seems like things got off to a fairly fast start and then have really settled down.
 

Johnnyboy18 said:
But PJ has been talking about "culture change" long before he was anywhere near being hired at a Big Ten school. Culture is everything not his fault people like you don't get it.
Click to expand...

I'm sure he has been. Never said Coyle coined the phrase or that PJ never used it before he was here. Not even sure where that argument is coming from.

Look JB. I added you to my ignore list and don't even see your posts anymore unless someone quotes them or you quote mine. I think the whole board has appreciated that we have fewer arguments on here now. Let's just agree that you like the culture talk and I don't and go our separate ways. Cheers.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

short ornery norwegian said:
And I still want the program to succeed. I still want the team to win - even if it means Fleck gets the Credit. I want the PROGRAM to succeed. And the Program is bigger, greater, and more important than any coach. .
Click to expand...

It's going be awful tough on you if the the program does succeed under Fleck and have to watch the guy you despise get credit for it.
 

What's more important, how a coach speaks or how well he coaches & knows his way around the Xs & Os?

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
 


scools12 said:
It's going be awful tough on you if the the program does succeed under Fleck and have to watch the guy you despise get credit for it.
Click to expand...

I'm 61 years old. The last time the Gophers tied for the B1G title I was 12. At times, I have just given up any hope of seeing the Gophers have a relevant program. Is Fleck the guy who can pull off that feat? I don't know. But I'm willing to see what happens.

And I wouldn't say I despise Fleck. I just think he's a BS artist. Now, being a BS artist is not the worst thing in the world, because most BS artists know they're slinging BS. Some very successful FB coaches have also been BS artists. But Fleck strikes me as the worst kind of BS artist - the kind who actually believes his own BS. And, as I said, Fleck isn't doing anything new or unique in college sports - he just presents it as if it was new or unique.

Again, as I said before, this whole "culture" thing is BS. "Culture" is now a magic word that means anything you want it to mean. For Josh and Johnny, yes, I understand the general meaning of the word. But for FB, I would say the word "philosophy" is a better fit. Different teams have different philosophies, encompassing the style of play, approach to recruiting, etc.
certainly there are programs that have their own distinct philosophies. But "culture," - it seems to mean something different from day to day. If Fleck said something like, "This is the way we do things at MN," I have no problem with that. But calling everything "culture" is just too cute by half. "culture" is lipstick on a pig. It's precisely why Fleck rubs me the wrong way.

And a final question - for everyone who disagrees with me, what about my statement that the Program is greater than the coach. Agree, disagree, don't understand?
 


Ummm- I would agree the star level has probably not increased to a statistically significant degree as if yet. I'll do an ANOVA analysis after pjs first NSD.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Johnnyboy18 said:
This post is BS pure and simple. If you don't think culture is a thing in football you're delusional.

I'm sure Fleck's culture only consists of him saying "We want a winning program"

Getting hard to take some of you seriously if you think the culture of the program is simply having better players.
Click to expand...
Culture...it's like a strep test...
 



PMWinSTP said:
Culture... without having to repeatedly say it.
http://buyersguide.coachesdirectory...als--jerry-kill--university-of-minnesota.html
Click to expand...

I remember Jerry talking quite a bit about culture when he started.

Regarding Fleck, from all I hear, including from those who are around him during what should be "down time," he is not putting on an act. I have no reason to think he is knowingly slinging BS. I have trouble believing he is lying about origin of "row the boat," or possesses the level of personal ugliness to cynically exploit his child's death for personal gain. He has said he is not for everyone, and that not everyone will like his style.

And his style did initially annoy me. Concluding that it was not an act helped, but I will never enjoy a communication style built so much on aphorisms. I am far more naturally comfortable with someone like Claeys, and even Kill's cornpoke got on my nerves once in a while. Fleck's style is not a natural fit for me, but I am fine with that. Nick Sabin appears to be a world class jerk, but I could probably get over it if he was our coach. At least until the first championship. Or maybe two.

One thing I will say for Fleck is that while he is out of my comfort zone, he has improved the visibility of the program. And over time, if it continues to be clear that he is who he says he is, I will respect him for it.
 




You must log in or register to reply here.



Top Bottom