Is it just me or is the star level of our recruiting

[GFBfan]

Agreed but they'll never admit it.

See post #86. Either start citing specific examples, with names and exact quote to prove your point, or stop with this nonsense.

 

[Spoofin]

You really care about that if we win?

Reread SONs post. He is trying to explain to you that not loving PJF or thinking everything he does is "elite" doesn't mean he wants him to fail. PJ failing means the Gophers failed and I am yet to see any fan on this site that wants that. Pure Crazy Talk.


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[Spoofin]

See post #86. Either start citing specific examples, with names and exact quote to prove your point, or stop with this nonsense.

You are trying to reason with JB. Best not try. His presence here is based on lies and unsupported accusations. 4-5 of us agree.


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[Johnnyboy18]

See post #86. Either start citing specific examples, with names and exact quote to prove your point, or stop with this nonsense.

I use these things called context clues. Of course no one is going to outright say they are rooting against the team but it's heavily implied. But like Spoofin said I wouldn't say it's half it's more like 4-5 posters.

 

[GFBfan]

I use these things called context clues. Of course no one is going to outright say they are rooting against the team but it's heavily implied. But like Spoofin said I wouldn't say it's half it's more like 4-5 posters.

And they are?
Name them so we can all put them on the ignore list or get them banned and start turning this board into a positive place.


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[Johnnyboy18]

And they are?


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I'm not going to look them up for you. It's been blatantly obvious for the past 5.5 months however, you just got to look!

Also I don't think think you should put yourself on an ignore list. You and Spoof should start a Gophers site where the motto is: Not as big of a Fleck fan as you™

 

[short ornery norwegian]

In one sense, this is nothing new. every couple of years we get somebody on this board who wants to define what it means to be a Gopher "fan," - and amazingly, their definition always comes down to - "I'm a real Gopher fan and you're not."

But, the truth is more nuanced. There are different types of fans and different levels of fandom. And this program needs every fan it can get - from the diehards to the casual fans.

Why can't you accept a very simple fact: two people can disagree about PJ Fleck, but they can both want the Gopher FB program to be successful.

If I was King of the World - or if I was the Gopher AD, I probably would not have hired a coach like Fleck. I'm not the AD. They didn't ask my opinion. I'm not a big fan of Fleck's style. BUT I WANT THE TEAM TO WIN. I WANT THE TEAM TO WIN. (if I say it 1,374 times, will you believe it?)

And the thing is, if the team wins, we both get what we want. I get to see the team win, and you get to praise Fleck for helping/making the team win.

People are passionate about sports. Some People also have a very difficult time accepting that other people have different opinions and different points of view.

Basically, the Football board is becoming more like the off-topic board. All of the discussions/arguments get personal, and the same people just keep having the same arguments, but no one every changes their mind or modifies their opinion.

 

[A_Slab_of_Bacon]

In one sense, this is nothing new. every couple of years we get somebody on this board who wants to define what it means to be a Gopher "fan,"

Gopher Score is the only true sign!

 

[Some Day...Maybe]

...awfully similar to the recruits we got when Kill & company were running the farm?

Most kids are 2 and 3 star, under the radar type kids.

Personally, I have no problem with the recruits we are getting, but I don't see any real upgrade over the past regime.

It's you.


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[JTsolo612]

Most of these recruits have multiple Power 5 offers.

We were beating out Western Michigan for Kill's recruits.

It's what my own eyes see!

So NO, I'd say they aren't the same.

Don't get too excited... we're beating Purdue, Illinois (sometimes), Iowa STATE, and the like... look at the offer sheets... nothing overly impressive or light years ahead of Kill. The past regime had its recruiting victories here n there.


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[JTsolo612]

Welcome to the worst message board. The chamber of despair and misery. The essence of putrescence. We put the Black in Sabbath. Like the Rocky Horror Picture Show, we're so bad we're good.
Long live the culture of the Gopherhole! Long live the hole! [emoji482]

I personally just don't read the pissing matches... easy... unless there's something funny or outrageous or preposterous or funny or even mildly entertaining once in a while... but yeah no ones forcing anyone to read anything, so... everyone needs to chill. I agree w mennosota here, were so bad we're good! Viva El Hoyo!!


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[Some Day...Maybe]

...awfully similar to the recruits we got when Kill & company were running the farm?

Most kids are 2 and 3 star, under the radar type kids.

Personally, I have no problem with the recruits we are getting, but I don't see any real upgrade over the past regime.

You're comparing year 5 and 6 of the Kill era with year 1 of the Fleck era. Fleck is ahead of year 5 and 6 of the Kill era in year 1. Not only that, he's coming off a major scandal in the football program. As much as I love Kill, you can't compare the two recruiting wise.


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[Some Day...Maybe]

2016 class was 21 recruits, with seven 2* (including AW Jr). Add two mid 3* and one low 4* to this year's class to get to 21. In comparison overall, they would be close to identical.

Good job comparing Kill's 5th recruiting class to Fleck's 1st. I'll look forward to your in depth analysis when Fleck has his 5th recruiting class.


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[Oregon Gopher]

The guy can coach. He had never been more than a position coach and at 33 became a HC. He already had a plan to build his way. He went 1-11 in year one and then 29-11 over the next three season out recruiting many in the bottom half of the Big Ten. I just hope for a signature win in year one and a bowl to help recruiting going into year number two. Experts have his current class in the 25-35 range if he keeps on the current path. That blows away the previous staff.

Please- I'm a Fleck supporter- but show me an expert that says this. A class entirely of 3* will not be in the top 35.


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[JTsolo612]

You're comparing year 5 and 6 of the Kill era with year 1 of the Fleck era. Fleck is ahead of year 5 and 6 of the Kill era in year 1. Not only that, he's coming off a major scandal in the football program. As much as I love Kill, you can't compare the two recruiting wise.


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You have a good point w it being year 1 and kill/cleats having multiple... BUT (always a but right?) Kill inherited a mess w no facilities. PJ is much better off. And I wouldn't say PJ is already ahead of the former staff. Kill put guys in the NFL here... a number of good yetnot highly recruited players came thru the past 6 years and many still around... but that's just my opinion...


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[scools12]

Don't get too excited... we're beating Purdue, Illinois (sometimes), Iowa STATE, and the like... look at the offer sheets... nothing overly impressive or light years ahead of Kill. The past regime had its recruiting victories here n there.


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If Kill/Claeys were beating out the likes of Purdue, Illinois and Iowa St for recruits posters would've been making a pretty big deal out of the recruiting job being done.

 

[MennoSota]

You're comparing year 5 and 6 of the Kill era with year 1 of the Fleck era. Fleck is ahead of year 5 and 6 of the Kill era in year 1. Not only that, he's coming off a major scandal in the football program. As much as I love Kill, you can't compare the two recruiting wise.


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Not really.
If you recall, Brewster left a dumpster fire. Kill had to rebuild from scratch.
While there was a sex scandal last fall, that was resolved. Also, there is a new facility being built.
I am calling things equal.

 

[NukedSquid]

...awfully similar to the recruits we got when Kill & company were running the farm?

Most kids are 2 and 3 star, under the radar type kids.

Personally, I have no problem with the recruits we are getting, but I don't see any real upgrade over the past regime.

According to ESPN, we have two 4*'s and zero 2*'s.

 

[NotAFanOfBecky]

According to ESPN, we have two 4*'s and zero 2*'s.

ESPN what do they know!

Seriously, star ratings or what have you (and I would bet many of these rankings will change for the better as you are seeing more offers...i.e. Nolan who in a week got offers from Louisville and Michigan State) PJ has scored a TON of recruits already. I was a huge Kill/Claeys supporter but how can't you think that he's not recruiting well? 19 verbals and its June???!!!

I lurked for years here before joining and some of the threads I felt like I had to grab a drink and some popcorn. I think that this thread is possibly joining that status.

The off-season is great! We can't bitch about missing an open receiver or a bad play call, but we sure can be disappointed that Coach Fleck hasn't nailed a better recruiting class 8 months before NSD, or who likes or dislikes his personality!

Carry on!

 

[PMWinSTP]

Good job comparing Kill's 5th recruiting class to Fleck's 1st. I'll look forward to your in depth analysis when Fleck has his 5th recruiting class.


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You obviously did not take the 10 seconds needed to read the post I was responding to...

Gophs are coming off a 9 win season with a new HC who has major national recognition coming off a 13 win season and Cotton bowl appearance, and a reputation for his recruiting prowess (many national articles), so you're right, it's not fair to Kill or Claeys to use any of their classes for comparison.

 

[MennoSota]

ESPN what do they know!

Seriously, star ratings or what have you (and I would bet many of these rankings will change for the better as you are seeing more offers...i.e. Nolan who in a week got offers from Louisville and Michigan State) PJ has scored a TON of recruits already. I was a huge Kill/Claeys supporter but how can't you think that he's not recruiting well? 19 verbals and its June???!!!

I lurked for years here before joining and some of the threads I felt like I had to grab a drink and some popcorn. I think that this thread is possibly joining that status.

The off-season is great! We can't bitch about missing an open receiver or a bad play call, but we sure can be disappointed that Coach Fleck hasn't nailed a better recruiting class 8 months before NSD, or who likes or dislikes his personality!

Carry on!

If you read my OP post, you would know that there is no complaint about the recruits that are making verbal commitments. I wondered if the star level of the recruits was anything different than what Kill & co brought in.

This thread has discussed the means of determining the levels in comparison.

My take-away is that Fleck has been quicker at getting a verbal commitment than Kill or Claeys were able to do.

As posters have mentioned, it doesn't matter until the kids sign on the dotted line. At the end of the day, I wonder if we will essentially have similar recruits coming through the doors to play at UMN. My thought is that the star quality will not be any higher for 2018 than it was for 2016.

 

[Iceland12]

According to ESPN, we have two 4*'s and zero 2*'s.

Looking at Minnesota and other schools there are no 2 stars listed, just "unstarred".

Looking at Minnesota on ESPN, right now they have 2 Fours and 13 threes and 3 unrated.

2016 - 2 four stars, 16 three stars, 2 unranked
2015 - 23 three stars, 1 unranked
2014 - 2 four stars, 16 three stars, 2 unranked
2013 - 17 three stars, 1 unranked.

Patrick must've been looking elsewhere for quite awhile now.

 

[btowngopher]

I think some gopher fans over estimated Fleck's recruiting prowess. Creating excitement and energy around a program isn't the same as recruiting. To me he was kind of an unknown as far as a recruiter. I understood he did well recruiting in the MAC, but it's not like his classes were P5 quality, they were really good MAC classes. I expected somewhere between Kill and Brewster as far as recruiting, and that's what we are getting.

 

[Ski U Mah 55]

I think some gopher fans over estimated Fleck's recruiting prowess. Creating excitement and energy around a program isn't the same as recruiting. To me he was kind of an unknown as far as a recruiter. I understood he did well recruiting in the MAC, but it's not like his classes were P5 quality, they were really good MAC classes. I expected somewhere between Kill and Brewster as far as recruiting, and that's what we are getting.

People still need to remember where a coach is recruiting to. MN is tough.

 

[PMWinSTP]

People still need to remember where a coach is recruiting to. MN is tough.

It is interesting. I have said consistently that it looks like this class will end up ranked in the 40s, and I'd be very happy. Got hammered by the Flecksters as having too low expectations.

 

[Tucker32]

Here is what I want - I want the Gophers to win - and I want the coach to stop saying "elite" every 9 seconds.

I make no bones about it - Fleck's style and personality make me want to gag. But, he is the coach of the Gopher FB team, and that means I want him to succeed - even if there are times I wind up holding my nose. Coaches come and go - the program stays. There was a Gopher FB program long before Fleck was born, and god willing, there will be a gopher FB program long after he is dead.

Who knows - maybe I will change my mind over time. I wasn't thrilled with Claeys at first, but I grew to respect his coaching ability, and grew to like his understated personality. I'm a small-town guy, and I could relate to Claeys. I have a hard time relating to Fleck. Maybe I will have a change of heart with Fleck - or maybe I won't.

But, never mistake my misgivings about Fleck as a lack of support for the Gopher program.

Well said


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[Tucker32]

See post #86. Either start citing specific examples, with names and exact quote to prove your point, or stop with this nonsense.

Johnny and GWG keep repeating this, just because not everyone was singing their tune that Claeys should leave and are appreciative of the work the previous staff did. They want us to despise Claeys and company with them.


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[hungan1]

I'd guess the Gophers recruit ranking to be in the 30s to 40s range for Fleck's first class which is huge.

As a young HC, he seems more in tune with Millennials. All this Elite stuff doesn't bother me. It is all about results.

 

[Go4]

Here is what I want - I want the Gophers to win - and I want the coach to stop saying "elite" every 9 seconds.

I make no bones about it - Fleck's style and personality make me want to gag. But, he is the coach of the Gopher FB team, and that means I want him to succeed - even if there are times I wind up holding my nose. Coaches come and go - the program stays. There was a Gopher FB program long before Fleck was born, and god willing, there will be a gopher FB program long after he is dead.

Who knows - maybe I will change my mind over time. I wasn't thrilled with Claeys at first, but I grew to respect his coaching ability, and grew to like his understated personality. I'm a small-town guy, and I could relate to Claeys. I have a hard time relating to Fleck. Maybe I will have a change of heart with Fleck - or maybe I won't.

But, never mistake my misgivings about Fleck as a lack of support for the Gopher program.

^ this guy hasn't bought in on the necessary cultural changes needed in the program. i'm guessing you still confuse happiness and joy. son, they are not the same. likewise, being an elite program is greater than being a good or even great program. we strive for elite now. you say you relate to claeys, but being that you are a self-described "short" norwegian, you should relate better to fleck who has over come the "too's" as in too short, too slow, too young, etc. claeys was none of those, well maybe he was too slow footed too, but he did not build an elite culture like fleck is building.

i don't admonish you for not buying in, but you will. when you open your heart to the necessary cultural changes, you to will become elite. until then, keep confusing joy and happiness but definitely keep cheering on the gophers.

 

[short ornery norwegian]

Oh, bleep. Flecksters, get your flame-throwers ready.

All the talk of "culture" is BS. pure and simple. You know what a "culture change" really means - better players! that is your culture change.

Do you honestly think that PJ Fleck has come up with some revolutionary new approach that has never been tried before in the history of college FB? No. Bleep No. It's coach-speak taken to a different level, at a higher volume, and more beats-per-minute. But it's not new or revolutionary. Strain out all the BS, and Fleck is saying.........wait for it.........."We want to have a winning program!" Damn - no one in the history of college FB has ever wanted to have a winning program before.

It's BS. It's all BS.

Culture change means having better players. That's it. That's your trend-setting coach. It's all BS.

That is what drives me nuts about Fleck. The attitude like he has discovered someone unique. He hasn't. He has taken an old christmas present, put it in shiny new wrapping, and re-gifted it. It's all BS.

And I still want the program to succeed. I still want the team to win - even if it means Fleck gets the Credit. I want the PROGRAM to succeed. And the Program is bigger, greater, and more important than any coach.

I'm go to leave now and take more blood-pressure medication.