Important trivia question

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Wackerball

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I know that's an oxymoron.


What do Jim Tressel, Bo Schembechler, Lloyd Carr, Joe Paterno, Barry Alvarez, Kirk Ferentz, Bret Bielema and Mark Dantonio all have in common, besides having been successful Big 10 head coaches? (this list could be expanded, but that should suffice)
 




All of them worked as assistants for Big 10 teams before getting the HC job. Not one of them was a "splash" hire from a different part of the country. They all had experience and connections in the region.
 


Wackerball said:
I know that's an oxymoron.


What do Jim Tressel, Bo Schembechler, Lloyd Carr, Joe Paterno, Barry Alvarez, Kirk Ferentz, Bret Bielema and Mark Dantonio all have in common, besides having been successful Big 10 head coaches? (this list could be expanded, but that should suffice)
Click to expand...


I see you've left Glen Mason off this list.:D
 

Saying that Tressel's pedigree includes being an assistant at Ohio State (he was there from 83-85 and then spent the 15 years at Youngstown State) is like saying that Mike Shanahan's tenure at Minnesota helped him get ready to lead Denver to the Super Bowl.

For every hiring formula (hiring a coordinator, mid-major HC, former NFLer, school alum, etc.) one uses, you can find great examples and bad examples.

Go Gophers!!
 

dinkything said:
I see you've left Glen Mason off this list.:D
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Haha. At least they had the right idea, but you can't just hire any Big 10 assistant coach. You need a good one.

Seriously, it makes no sense to try to make a national splash when what you really need is someone who can work the region in recruiting and knows the league. You can look at the Tressels and Carrs in football or a guy like Izzo in basketball, it seems to hold true pretty consistently.
 

BleedGopher said:
Saying that Tressel's pedigree includes being an assistant at Ohio State (he was there from 83-85 and then spent the 15 years at Youngstown State) is like saying that Mike Shanahan's tenure at Minnesota helped him get ready to lead Denver to the Super Bowl.

For every hiring formula (hiring a coordinator, mid-major HC, former NFLer, school alum, etc.) one uses, you can find great examples and bad examples.

Go Gophers!!
Click to expand...


Remind me, where's Youngstown?

Was that a "splash" hire?
 




Wackerball said:
Remind me, where's Youngstown?

Was that a "splash" hire?
Click to expand...

My point is you can figure out whatever formula you want (hire a mid-major coach, hire a splash hire, hire a NFLer, etc.) and find good and bad examples.

What do Murray Warmath and Woody Hayes have in common? They both coached at their previous schools for two years and never had BT coaching experience before. Does that mean we should only look at coaches who have been at their school for two years but never in the BT?

No, there are many formulas, some work, some don't. It's all based on the specific coach and situation.

Go Gophers!!
 

positively4thstreet said:
Out of curiosity, who would you like to see as our next coach?
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I don't have the kind of exhaustive knowledge of current Big 10 assistant coaches and lower level midwest HC's to give you a specific name.


I can say that the profile, if you care about following a formula that has had a great deal of success historically, should be a guy with substantial coaching experience in the midwest and preferably at least a few years at a successful Big 10 program. Someone who will commit to running the ball and will bring a consistent approach.
 

BleedGopher said:
My point is you can figure out whatever formula you want (hire a mid-major coach, hire a splash hire, hire a NFLer, etc.) and find good and bad examples.

What do Murray Warmath and Woody Hayes have in common? They both coached at their previous schools for two years and never had BT coaching experience before. Does that mean we should only look at coaches who have been at their school for two years but never in the BT?

No, there are many formulas, some work, some don't. It's all based on the specific coach and situation.

Go Gophers!!
Click to expand...


Woody Hayes was hired from Miami of Ohio! He had local connections! You can try to be the exception or you can follow the rule.
 



So basically ... they need to hire a MAC coach from a Big Ten state or a Big Ten assistant.

Al Golden is your man, I'd imagine.
 



Wackerball said:
I don't have the kind of exhaustive knowledge of current Big 10 assistant coaches and lower level midwest HC's to give you a specific name.


I can say that the profile, if you care about following a formula that has had a great deal of success historically, should be a guy with substantial coaching experience in the midwest and preferably at least a few years at a successful Big 10 program. Someone who will commit to running the ball and will bring a consistent approach.
Click to expand...

Wow. I am genuinely surprised. I expected an emphatic recommendation for Paul Chryst.
 



Ballwacker, for this 'analysis' to have merit, you would have to also look into all the coaches who've been canned in the last 40 or so years. How many of them have been assistants at B10 schools?
 

RodentRampage said:
But you... "analysis" of them does not. No sit back and let the grownups talk.
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I'm just providing all of the most relevant historical information. If you're not interested so be it. What's your response to the argument that I'm making? "Let the grownups talk?" That doesn't really address the evidence I've presented.
 

Five of the eight you listed came into either a) Ohio State (naturally great program in a talent-rich, college-football-crazy state), b) Michigan (historically great program with insane amounts of institutional support), or c) An established program looking to maintain status (Bielema, Paterno).

I'll give you Ferentz, Alvarez and Dantonio, though even Ferentz is debateable, as he followed Hayden Fry and his .616 winning percentage.

Our issue is that we're not starting from the same place all of these teams started from when they made these hires.
 


MrGopher said:
Ballwacker, for this 'analysis' to have merit, you would have to also look into all the coaches who've been canned in the last 40 or so years. How many of them have been assistants at B10 schools?
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Let me ask you this. Who is the best Big 10 coach of the last 50 years who doesn't fit this profile?


Yeah, you could pick a Big 10 assistant or midwest D2 coach and he could suck. Still think your chances are better than Rich Rod 2 or Zook 2. Where's the historic success with that type of hire?


It's common sense. HIRE A GUY WHO KNOWS THE TERRAIN YOU EXPECT HIM TO NAVIGATE.
 

BleedGopher said:
My point is you can figure out whatever formula you want (hire a mid-major coach, hire a splash hire, hire a NFLer, etc.) and find good and bad examples.

What do Murray Warmath and Woody Hayes have in common? They both coached at their previous schools for two years and never had BT coaching experience before. Does that mean we should only look at coaches who have been at their school for two years but never in the BT?

No, there are many formulas, some work, some don't. It's all based on the specific coach and situation.

Go Gophers!!
Click to expand...

+1 Yes, many of us point to examples that support our hypothesis and ignore those that don't.
 

Is this thread supposed to lead us to Jim Zorn? BTW: Ballwacker is a good one.
 

Wackerball said:
I know that's an oxymoron.


What do Jim Tressel, Bo Schembechler, Lloyd Carr, Joe Paterno, Barry Alvarez, Kirk Ferentz, Bret Bielema and Mark Dantonio all have in common, besides having been successful Big 10 head coaches? (this list could be expanded, but that should suffice)
Click to expand...

How is Joe Paterno on this list? Penn State wasn't in the Big Ten when he started coaching.
 

Wackerball said:
Let me ask you this. Who is the best Big 10 coach of the last 50 years who doesn't fit this profile?


Yeah, you could pick a Big 10 assistant and he could suck. Still think your chances are better than Rich Rod 2 or Zook 2. Where's the historic success with that type of hire?
Click to expand...

Not saying you are wrong.

Im saying that for us to take your claim more seriously, you have to have a 1. lineup of successful coaches who fit your criteria 2. a lineup of unsuccessful coaches who fit your criteria 3. a lineup of successful guys who dont fit your criteria and 4. a lineup of unsuccessful guys who dont fit your criteria. And all during a singular timeframe.

Then the next step is providing a true theory as to why that might be the case.
 

Wackerball said:
Let me ask you this. Who is the best Big 10 coach of the last 50 years who doesn't fit this profile?


Yeah, you could pick a Big 10 assistant or midwest D2 coach and he could suck. Still think your chances are better than Rich Rod 2 or Zook 2. Where's the historic success with that type of hire?


It's common sense. HIRE A GUY WHO KNOWS THE TERRAIN YOU EXPECT HIM TO NAVIGATE.
Click to expand...
Hayden Fry never set foot in Iowa before becoming the head coach there. Woody Hayes?
 

Joe Paterno was a 15 year assistant at Penn St before becoming HC. He fits the profile I'm talking about perfectly.


I'm not going to analyze every hiring in Big 10 history. I'm just looking at the best coaches in the history of the league. Seems relevant to me.
 

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